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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 379198 times)
madchance
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May 14, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
 #1181

I got refunded... will probably reorder if they ever get through their backlog, it there isn't anything better available on the market at that point
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Portnoy
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May 14, 2013, 07:21:23 PM
 #1182

I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Yea...  'courtesy'.....  Cheesy


Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...


It's called Public Relations and many businesses seem to handle the challenge without much problem.  

The fact that BFL would put an offensive creep like Inaba out front to represent their company is enough in itself to make me avoid ever doing business with them.
All the lies and other irregularities just cements that decision.
  
   Tongue
Sk1llS
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May 14, 2013, 08:03:28 PM
 #1183

At first I wasn't certain BFL was a scam, but after reading the scam he had going before he was deported, I think it's safe to say they are a bunch of crooks. As the old saying goes, a leopard never changes it's spots.
BTCoder
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May 14, 2013, 08:17:25 PM
 #1184

Wow I hate scammers.
jamesgarfield
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May 14, 2013, 08:19:26 PM
 #1185

Suspected it for awhile, confirmed now.
jamesgarfield
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May 14, 2013, 08:20:27 PM
 #1186

I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Yea...  'courtesy'.....  Cheesy


Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...


It's called Public Relations and many businesses seem to handle the challenge without much problem.  

The fact that BFL would put an offensive creep like Inaba out front to represent their company is enough in itself to make me avoid ever doing business with them.
All the lies and other irregularities just cements that decision.
  
   Tongue

Agreed+1
jamesgarfield
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May 14, 2013, 08:46:19 PM
 #1187

I thought about ordering one of these my main issue is the wait time.


Has anyone taken into account the amount Bitcoins are and how much more you could have made when these went on sale. This company if they have this in Bitcoin that you paid for has made a mint off of you.

Lets say you paid for bit coin around Jan before the huge spike.

Then is was around $10USD a Bitcoin - so with that logic lets break down the products they are offering. Then how much you would have if you just sat on BTC and sold them today. These will be estimates and according to the markets avg.

5gh Miner Jan 10th order would have cost you 27.4BTC - at current markets that would = $3973 not $274

25gh Miner Jan 10th order would have cost you 124.9BTC -  at current markets that would = $18110 not $1249

50gh Miner Jan 10th order would have cost you 249.9 -  at current markets that would = $36234 not $2499


This is the main thing that bothers me. Not grant it, you could still get the product and make all that money back but they are sitting on a huge amount of money and have made way more off you. No one seems to mention or see this and it leaves me baffled


* side note, that current rate I used was today $145, if they had sells when it spiked to $200 or higher that would be much much more.


I do not think they are a scam, I just think doing a preorder of this nature is stupid.
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May 14, 2013, 08:48:37 PM
 #1188

I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer.  I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second.  Just one second.  How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units?  Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out?  Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units?  Are you really this stupid?

This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.

Yea...  'courtesy'.....  Cheesy


Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...

Yeah, that's a courtesy. And the responses are usually given in the same spirit as the 'questions' are posed. If you act like an asshole, the response is probably going to be given in a similar spirit. If you ask stupid, ignorant questions, expect to be treated like a stupid, ignorant person.

If it was just 1-2 idiots, I'm sure the responses might be more patient. But this forum has HOARDS of veritable idiots who continuously nag, and whine, and generally ramp up the derp to unbelievable levels.
I like this.
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May 14, 2013, 09:01:12 PM
 #1189

Quote
Just answer my question. You might fool me into pre-ordering again. You know, Me being not so bright.

Mooc Josh is in way too deep. He can't legally answer any of your or my questions. If they fail to deliver but continue to take preorders, then we will file a class action lawsuit followed by a criminal complaint to the relevant authorities. Contrary to Josh's meager understanding, it is illegal to accept almost $100,000 dollars in preorders for minirigs when the company has evidence that the sales claims cannot be true. It is consumer fraud. And before Josh you say false, Cloudhashing has claimed they preordered the minirigs. Either you are lying or they are.  

Cloudhashing's Proof of Purchase
https://picasaweb.google.com/104878918886305681953/ProofOfPurchase?authuser=0&feat=directlink#5866587391835308050

Note the last date of purchase in April. BFL had already received their ASICs and verified the power consumption was too high to scale to the minirig. Therefore, they knowingly took money for a product that did not exist pending R&D.

Def of Consumer Fraud:
Deceptive practices that result in financial or other losses for consumers in the course of seemingly legitimate business transactions.

Seems pretty clear here. Cloudhashing was never told about the R&D risks or given a rough delivery date. The bitcoin preorder option was another example of consumer fraud. We in the community have a reasonable expectation due to the deflationary nature of bitcoin the price will increase over time. To accept bitcoins for preordered goods last year and then not deliver for months on end without refunding the appreciation of the bitcoins at time of delivery is beyond reproach. Some people paid over 3,000 dollars for their 5 GH/s units.  

That is very disturbing. I would have started posting sooner but as many other I still believed its mostly bad luck and incompetence but I am slowly seeing patterns here and if one does not follow this close enough will miss them.

Patterns of timed advertising of great news. Almost euphoric in nature and I ate it up just like any new person waiting for any news. If josh just took the time to be more patient than just claiming everyone just get a refund, I would probably still be waiting.

What was wrong with just telling everyone that we wont see these units until next year the latest. Well for one reason which I can only speculate is the pre-orders would not come in until they post a date. Thats the rub. There is the problem.

How many have said "wow 147 dollars for a jala thats too cheap. Must be a catch some where" well again as speculation I would offer that would do two things.

1) Keep fresh pre-orders coming in
2) Kill competition (honest one)

Then add the ridiculous power estimates. Many others which I have read also sent u red flags that the power consumption could not be met. There are posts that point out that Josh was approached about this and offered to help with the design as they were presently employed by other companies doing exactly that.I believe they talked to Josh at one of the CES conventions maybe the year before this one.  Could that also help kill competition for fear of competing against such hubris expectations. You decide.

Notice Avalon raised prices after batch one? That is because you can't build these that cheap. However as we all have seen Chinese people are very resourceful.

How many times we hear "The week of" from Josh?

Well then their is the CES convention that just past and all they had was the Box of fans. Thats were that meme came from I guess. We can all joke about this but there are people out there that don't find this funny at all. I really want people to get their units, I really do.

How can anyone understand what their buying without knowing all this/
massnerder
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May 14, 2013, 09:09:15 PM
 #1190

Answering the same retarded questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again, until the next idiot comes up with an even STUPIDER question, for them to answer over, and over, and over...

Yeah, that's a courtesy. And the responses are usually given in the same spirit as the 'questions' are posed. If you act like an asshole, the response is probably going to be given in a similar spirit. If you ask stupid, ignorant questions, expect to be treated like a stupid, ignorant person.

If it was just 1-2 idiots, I'm sure the responses might be more patient. But this forum has HOARDS of veritable idiots who continuously nag, and whine, and generally ramp up the derp to unbelievable levels.

Again, you completely sidestep my point.  I'm beginning to think it's intentional  Wink

Which requires more effort: calling people idiots over and over, or hitting ctrl+v to paste a stupid answer to the stupid question over and over?

Which one looks more professional?

Ignorance is something they should have been fully prepared to deal with, as you pointed out we are talking about brand new technology, so what do you expect?  Now, I agree that some people are getting belligerent and crossing lines, but IMHO ignoring that kind of thing is the best response.
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May 14, 2013, 09:28:08 PM
 #1191

The idea behind BFL makes no sense in the short run. They will offer their products only when mining efficiency becomes much lower. In the mean time they can make a lot more money using their product, if it works.

MΣC | MAvSLa1ZYpk3AsDeqj9njfVkaunJRDu2VZ
http://www.megacoin.co.nz/
MSantori
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May 14, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Last edit: June 09, 2013, 03:06:29 AM by MSantori
 #1192

I'm a lawyer. I ordered from butterfly labs.  Still haven't received mine.  Lots of theories floating around out there.

Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.  If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me.  We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me.  Maybe I can help!  Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising Smiley
animalxp
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May 14, 2013, 10:31:08 PM
 #1193

this is NOT an investment. this is a product, an item which you buy from a company. whatever benefits you get from it are irrelevant, just as long as it works in the state which was promised at the time of sale.

an investment is a " i give you cash in exchange for more later, product or no product it doesnt matter "

the only investment going on is with your mind and the product. you cannot invest in a product alone.
thats called gambling.

The elephant in the room is;  What is going on with the customers money ?
because there is a ton of laws which exist to prevent these companies doing what the hell they want with it and as far as i can see they are all being broken.

i know exactly what they are doing which is why i put a simple & reasonable question about where they were with delivery dates and got hit with a ban. went to my bank the next day to recover the funds.

predictions
the people that ordered this year will not see any product until next year. (the numbers just dont add up)
as previous followers have said the projected delivery dates have been changed multiple times. which also confirms my horrors.
the only time when mass shipping will start (if at all) is when the difficulty changes to a new outstandingly sized margin.

this is what i would be doing if i was inclined at their level of dishonesty.

all i see is useless info on the updates announcements section.
a cluster**** of hopes and excuses for chips and boards.
there is NO way to fulfill the orders unless they were/are lying about current production figures.

now ask yourself "where is the product" and the answer becomes very clear.
aetos
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May 14, 2013, 10:32:38 PM
 #1194

on bitminer    there is an alias  realasciminer mining with 5.6 ths  yes ths !!!!!!!
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May 14, 2013, 10:42:17 PM
 #1195

will they ship anytime soon Huh??
darkmule
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May 14, 2013, 11:04:51 PM
 #1196

This is why you're a joke, Mooc.  You keep posting the same shit over and over.  Everyone already knows it, no one cares.

I'm sorry I hurt your widdle feewings by pointing out the fact that you're too stupid to realize that we didn't need new benches to be able to to assemble our units and could use the old ones. I figured any 6 year old child would be able to figure that out, I had no idea you didn't have the cognitive capacity of a pre-schooler.



Haha, as the saying here in my mother country goes: Sounds like someone got up from the bed on the wrong side this morning... Time to turn that frown upside down  Grin

It may look like this douchebag is actually angry, but that is not the case.  It is a trick of a scam artist.

He merely feigns anger to distract attention from the fact that he's lying and refusing to answer questions by putting attention instead on what a douchebag he's acting like.  If attention is shifted to Josh being a colossal douchebag, which in fact he is, he deflects attention from the fact that worse than that, he's a thieving piece of shit.
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May 15, 2013, 12:25:09 AM
 #1197

I have this feeling that all the idiots who scream that BFL is a scam will just disappear and make new accounts later this year. And there will be a few nuts that believe that hundreds of forum users are being paid by BFL to act like they got working ASIC's.
I will stay.
Lmao I laughed!
BitCoinzzz
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May 15, 2013, 12:26:47 AM
 #1198

they seem like complete crap
clowe
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May 15, 2013, 12:32:28 AM
 #1199

Perhaps the problem with all ASIC hardware manufactures is that there is not a strong economic incentive for them to deliver on time, reasons being:

1. Once they sell their devices the difficulty goes up, one presumes they are also mining.
2. The longer they delay shipping the more they can make from mining themselves.

You would assume they are selling the devices because they believe that there is more money to be made from selling devices than using them to mine, these people are in business to make money.

I'm not saying this applies to Butterfly labs but this is a unique product, you're selling a product that can potentially make much more money than what you sell the product for.

I think by the time everyone gets their ASIC machines they'll be disappointed because the difficulty rate will make them difficulty to pay for themselves, the manufacturers know this.
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May 15, 2013, 12:50:09 AM
 #1200

Yep they are complete crap.
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