Nefario

[coinft]

Second, without an easily accessible and decently safe market you just cannot trade them for their original worth, as risk lowers the price.

Such a market never existed, the price was artificially higher before because people were buying into the scam that an unregulated securities market could be safe. 

The market was GLBSE. Note I said easily accessible and decently safe on purpose, and if you think what we have now -- no proof of ownership at all -- is anywhere aequivalent you are even more stupid than usual. Just feeding this troll once.

[1713549279]

1713549279

[coinft]

Yes... but if there is btc as a present then someone maybe can get access to that database. Might it be some hacker, employee of the datacenter or whatelse. Maybe nefario himself so that no one knows it. I mean at the end it would be meaningless how or who it does. When this plan would be needed then everything other didnt work. And getting the data one or the other way has to be discussed if you want to have anything at last.

Please specify a test how we can decide if to trust such a DB, or else all is vain. And how to insure against the potential liability of paying to the wrong person. And how to get everyone onto this boat.

[coinft]

I wonder if other shareholder intervened at nefario after they read what he wants for proof.

Anyway... now, as we still have contact to nefario... who would be willing to spend some btc as a bount for someone that can give out the database? With the database the owned shares at least could be verified. the amount of btc in account could be known then too but probably not get.

Maybe that as an backupplan if nothing other works.

The backup plan was only for the passwords to the server etc. He has in all likelihood changed them by now.

Sure? That's a plan for disaster to start with. Encrypted backup should have been distributed to all partial key owners. And of course verified occasionally.

[SebastianJu]

I think its impossible to create a fake db out of thin air. I mean i have backed up the whol glbse.com-site a month ago and with that i still only have the tradeprice, date and volume and the dividends paid. Every other date regarding who got what dividend and who owned what share is impossible to fake. I mean i and all others know what shares they owned at the end. At least nearly. A scammer cant possibly know that.
But you mean the person getting the db will set himself some shares in it? Possible. I only can think that the numbers dont match at the end. Persons claiming that they had more shares than the db states or that the overall shares are too many. Its only a small way to check. At the end you have to trust that the database is mostly correct and the leaker some honest idealist. Its having something or nothing at the end.

Paying to the wrong person wont happen when the accountant of the bounty is carefully checking where the leak appeared first and what address was with it. Of course some check should be done if the data is matching or not too before paying. If all is fine then the leaker should have leaked it in a way that everyone knows he was first. I think thats possible.

Everyone getting in isnt needed. The one that wants to pay something into the bounty probably are the ones that want to stay anonymous and want to get their shares back. If someone dont want to spend he probably dont need the shares so its his thing. When the bounty is good enough to move some things and it is possible to get the db somehow then maybe it will work. If not the accountant can pay the bounty back. So he should be trusted by all.

[coinft]

I think its impossible to create a fake db out of thin air. I mean i have backed up the whol glbse.com-site a month ago and with that i still only have the tradeprice, date and volume and the dividends paid. Every other date regarding who got what dividend and who owned what share is impossible to fake. I mean i and all others know what shares they owned at the end. At least nearly. A scammer cant possibly know that.
But you mean the person getting the db will set himself some shares in it? Possible. I only can think that the numbers dont match at the end. Persons claiming that they had more shares than the db states or that the overall shares are too many. Its only a small way to check. At the end you have to trust that the database is mostly correct and the leaker some honest idealist. Its having something or nothing at the end.

Paying to the wrong person wont happen when the accountant of the bounty is carefully checking where the leak appeared first and what address was with it. Of course some check should be done if the data is matching or not too before paying. If all is fine then the leaker should have leaked it in a way that everyone knows he was first. I think thats possible.

Everyone getting in isnt needed. The one that wants to pay something into the bounty probably are the ones that want to stay anonymous and want to get their shares back. If someone dont want to spend he probably dont need the shares so its his thing. When the bounty is good enough to move some things and it is possible to get the db somehow then maybe it will work. If not the accountant can pay the bounty back. So he should be trusted by all.

A lot of somes. No doubt it will be easy to convince most share owning customers. It will be a lot harder to convince asset issuers, since they only get to lose, and without them there's no benefit. Goat already has declined to use the unsafe voucher code system which was in place temporarily.

And then do not forget the possibility of a real database with some entries doctored. At least one person with a scammer tag already has access to it.

[SebastianJu]

I spoke with some other person and we asked ourselfes if there cant be a platform created with all trades stored in another blockchain beneath blockchain of bitcoin. The offers shouldnt be centralised but instead stored at every client taking part in the net.

If someone wants to trade then he checks the offers and when he want to trade he verifies at maybe 1000 clients if it is a true one. When this is done the trade is correct.

Its only a thought but maybe a new platform could be created decentralized this way.

Regarding the trade itself maybe the thoughts from the threads about secure decentralized p2p trading of different coin-currencies can be taken in advance to make the trade itself secure.

Only thinking about because i think the centralized effort failed and wont have much success in future because of its risks.

[SebastianJu]

A lot of somes. No doubt it will be easy to convince most share owning customers. It will be a lot harder to convince asset issuers, since they only get to lose, and without them there's no benefit. Goat already has declined to use the unsafe voucher code system which was in place temporarily.

And then do not forget the possibility of a real database with some entries doctored. At least one person with a scammer tag already has access to it.

There are some honest asset issuers that want to know their shareholders. Speaking of asicminer and puremining at least. Asicminer for example even wants to guess only who has what shares when he doesnt get the data. That means everything would be better then guessing only.

Goat can decline the voucher code system. I dont know for what reason. If it was anonymity then a leaked db wouldnt have this problem. If he ist honest he probably could take part in such try.

Regarding the doctored db i wrote 2 post back about. It can be checked a little bit but...

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

[senor_coconut]

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

+1

But realistically it seems very difficult, if not impossible, to set this up:
Apart from the DB leaking/surfacing (with funding required... and a treasurer, etc.) you need to get most of these people issuers/holders/scammers/anonimity super freaks to agree...
And there are not many guarantees it will solve the majority of people's problems, such as "free balances" and IPO funds being returned.

Perhaps it gathers steam, but it will take time and is such as complicated task that i see it as unfeasible, unfortunately.
Maybe there are other positive developments in the meantime.

[lame.duck]

Regarding the doctored db i wrote 2 post back about. It can be checked a little bit but...

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

Well, it could be checked if it looks valid but you have no proof for it so it would be questionable if issuers should rely on it. For instance it would only require a swap of the Username and email field (eventually the password too) so A and B assets would be exchanged. I bet  only A or B would call this solution 'better than nothing' especially if there is a huge diference in the number of shares hold. Instead of this a honest issuer could take legal actions against nefario and the other GLBSE partner to give them the share database, maybe with a opt out option if a shareholder likes to kepp anonymous. This would take some time for sure but the dividends could held in excrow til then.

Obtaining the database in an illegal way and using this data would open all door to legal actions againt honest issuers.

[SebastianJu]

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

+1

But realistically it seems very difficult, if not impossible, to set this up:
Apart from the DB leaking/surfacing (with funding required... and a treasurer, etc.) you need to get most of these people issuers/holders/scammers/anonimity super freaks to agree...
And there are not many guarantees it will solve the majority of people's problems, such as "free balances" and IPO funds being returned.

Perhaps it gathers steam, but it will take time and is such as complicated task that i see it as unfeasible, unfortunately.
Maybe there are other positive developments in the meantime.

I believe when this turns really out as a scam then the user funds are lost. But then the database is of no use for the scammer too. So getting a bounty at least for it could be a bonus on top. For the scammer(s) or someone other. Its not the best idea to reward a scam on top but the loss and trouble will be even higher for the shareholders when they dont have the db.

I dont know if we need most of issuers, shareholders and so on to agree. I mean what counts is the bounty that can be seen in the net. Who wants it back will give a small part to the bounty. Whoever dont need it doesnt need to give. But he shouldnt wine afterwards when the chance is gone without success.

Whoever give the db will get the reward first. So there maybe is a compete when more than one person has access. Maybe someone calls the datacenter and makes an employee an offer or something. Whatever. I dont think that the bounty has to be a crazy amount. If someone can bring the db and is willing to do so the btc bounty probably must not be too high. I mean for them would it be the same. Selling a otherwise useless db and getting something or have nothing.

And yes, of course i hope this will turn out good anyway so these thoughts wont be needed.

[SebastianJu]

Regarding the doctored db i wrote 2 post back about. It can be checked a little bit but...

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

Well, it could be checked if it looks valid but you have no proof for it so it would be questionable if issuers should rely on it. For instance it would only require a swap of the Username and email field (eventually the password too) so A and B assets would be exchanged. I bet  only A or B would call this solution 'better than nothing' especially if there is a huge diference in the number of shares hold. Instead of this a honest issuer could take legal actions against nefario and the other GLBSE partner to give them the share database, maybe with a opt out option if a shareholder likes to kepp anonymous. This would take some time for sure but the dividends could held in excrow til then.

Obtaining the database in an illegal way and using this data would open all door to legal actions againt honest issuers.

Yes, but like i said. Asicminer issuer even plans to ask his shareholders how many shares they had and try to recreate the ownerlist out of thin air. I cant possibly imagine this would work good. So having a userbase, even when you cant be fully sure its all true and you only can check the integrity a little bit is way way better than recreating the userbase out of thin air.

Regarding the swap you mentioned. Of course can this happen when the leaker isnt honest. But the shareholder would claim something is wrong at least. Maybe the issuer remember something too and when the scammer did the same with another share it maybe is identified. But again i would say it cant be a foolprof method to trust a leaked database. Its only to have something instead nothing.

I know this is no fine way. Its only a thought for a backupplan when it turns out that we wont get the data at all and nothing other works.

[Garr255]

I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.

He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.

So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett

[HorseRider]

I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.

He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.

So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett

Garr, thanks for you information. If Nefario can resolve everything before the end of next week, I still hold that Nefario is honest. ( he sometimes over estimate the speed he can solve things, like the "later today" update. A lot people act like this. Considering that Nefario maybe under some pressures, some delay can be forgivable.)

[MPOE-PR]

I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.

He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.

So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett

"Within a day" aka "by the end of today" was the story two days ago. Meanwhile GLBSE briefly came up this morning allowing people to claim by address and email, then asking for id copies, sharpie in pooper pics and other goodness. Three hours later it was closed again saying "we can't process anymore".

What Nefario's saying on the phone and what he's doing are worlds apart. He should start his own phonesex service, seems to be working.

[HorseRider]

For Nefario, I don't think the speed is as important as keep good communication with the trusted and nice-to-talk forum members to update the progress and status of the closure. And he should discuss with lawyer or other GLBSE shareholders before he give the solutions. I don't think discussion with friends and consultants is harder than facing the criticism on this forum.

[MPOE-PR]

For Nefario, I don't think the speed is as important as keep good communication with the trusted and nice-to-talk forum members to update the progress and status of the closure. And he should discuss with lawyer or other GLBSE shareholders before he give the solutions. I don't think discussion with friends and consultants is harder than facing the criticism on this forum.

Ideally he should only be talking to his mum, who possibly can still stand him.

[aura.flux]

wow, you guys never learn. he fucked everyone. hopefully he's fucked...

[senor_coconut]

I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.

He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.

So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett

Thanks Garrett (I guess). Btw, you should update your websites, things are no longer being traded on GLBSE...

And actually, following this thread will end up costing me more than what I have/had on GLBSE.
No more fud for now...

[HorseRider]

wow, you guys never learn. he fucked everyone. hopefully he's fucked...

I think the price he is going to pay is far more than 8000BTC IF he just scam us bitcoin away. So, I bet, Nefario won't do that. Let's see what will happen.

[LoupGaroux]

Gosh, thanks Garrett and HorseRider for that helpful and sincere approach to fixing this problem.

Not.

James McCarthy has criminally seized a significant store of value that is not his. His actions have not been honest, open or even rational in how he has done this. He has diverted assets to his own benefit, and has broken off communications with the other owners of this venture that he has allegedly seized control of.

How is this FUD? How is that something we should wait and be patient about? He has lied repeatedly about what he is doing, has consistently operated this venture like an utter incompetent and has pulled every excuse in the world out of thin air to explain away his criminal fumbling. What you should do instead of having polite chats with him and commiserating about how harsh the bitcoin community can be, is to hold him accountable, and if you are the friends that you claim to be, demand that he do the right thing, quit playing around, be honest and release all the information and funds back to the rightful owners IMMEDIATELY.

That's what friends would do. Lying bastards and scum as dirty as him would urge restraint and patience. It's a matter of collapsing it. Or better yet- returning control to the majority owners so they can collapse it and get everything back to the investors and asset creators. That's a couple of clicks with the mouse, or a short email to theymos and company.

This latest scam of demanding unconscionable amounts of personal information to release funds, information that was never required to set up the accounts in the first place, and has no legal requirement to be demanded is just the same sort of slimy, lying, dishonest stall tactics that bitcoinica employed. I expect James is in active negotiation with a group of Nigerian 419 experts to sell all of this identification data to them so they can continue the fleecing that he has begun.

Call your buddy up and tell him to do the right thing NOW. Quite playing at silly buggers fucking around with all this grown up sounding legal bullshit and give people their funds back. He is way over-matched by the task, and he is about to reap the whirlwind. Take your voices of delay and patronization for his victims and pound sand. Or be considered as scammy as he is by this community.