Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan

[roy7]

No, Luke's unit is still hashing away without interruption and has been since the 19th. $3,675 and counting by my calculations (30btc*$122.5)....

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

Apparently some people think Luke must be "in on it" and is lying about his unit. I'm sure David Perry is also part of the conspiracy too now. And with Kano getting a unit next, I'm sure someone will say he's lying as well about whatever he reports. Whee.

[1714807038]

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[1714807038]

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[jml]

It looks promising seeing a review, but I am still not paying full price for a pre-order.

[roy7]

It's pretty logical Luke-Jr getting a unit as he develops BGMiner. I believe Kano develops CGMiner? So no problems there...

I agree completely.

[MPOE-PR]

wow that was racist borring and full of shit

You only think it's racist because your mother was a whore.

It's pretty logical Luke-Jr getting a unit as he develops BGMiner. I believe Kano develops CGMiner? So no problems there...

I agree completely.

Minus the part where Fluke-jr got a picture of a unit. This may be of no concern to him, as his idea of "coding" is copy-pasting anyway, but I'd guess Kano can't really do much against a pic. We'll see.

[gbx]

Shipping one unit vs shipping 100,000 are two very different challenges.  I wonder if he had to return the engineering sample after the video?

I know BFL has some experience manufacturing... but believe me.  Designing a PCB, sourcing components, dealing with idiosyncrasies of these components, having them wave soldered, etc....  then assembly, testing, boxing, shipping, dealing with returns/loss, etc.  No easy feat....  I wish them the very best of luck, but I'm glad I got a refund when I did.

To put things in perspective.  My mining pool, when I preordered in June of last year, was at 2000ghash/s.   Now, they're at 9000ghash/s and the reward is half of what I was before.

It'll be interesting to graph an investment in GPU vs Jalapeno, if both were purchased at the same time to see which one is a better investment.  Jalapeno would still probably win, but every day it's not mining for the purchaser, is one hell of an opportunity cost at idle.

[SgtSpike]

Shipping one unit vs shipping 100,000 are two very different challenges.  I wonder if he had to return the engineering sample after the video?

I know BFL has some experience manufacturing... but believe me.  Designing a PCB, sourcing components, dealing with idiosyncrasies of these components, having them wave soldered, etc....  then assembly, testing, boxing, shipping, dealing with returns/loss, etc.  No easy feat....  I wish them the very best of luck, but I'm glad I got a refund when I did.

To put things in perspective.  My mining pool, when I preordered in June of last year, was at 2000ghash/s.   Now, they're at 9000ghash/s and the reward is half of what I was before.

It'll be interesting to graph an investment in GPU vs Jalapeno, if both were purchased at the same time to see which one is a better investment.  Jalapeno would still probably win, but every day it's not mining for the purchaser, is one hell of an opportunity cost at idle.

The price in June of last year was $6 too.  $165 / $6 = 27.5.  9000 * 2 / 2000 = 9.  So it is 9 times as hard to mine now as it was then, but it is 27.5 times as profitable.

[Micon]

I'll admit it appears that BFL is a real company, built by a mail-order scammer, lying about shipping dates and being as dishonest as possible with marketing, and letting a PR guy with a Directv scamming record spew verbal diarrhea at anyone calling question to this obviously questionable scenario.

I hold to the point that BFL gambled pre-order money - and it looks like they may win - but nothing was ever guaranteed.  Full lose was very possible, and they lied and lied and lied to everyone's faces about dates.  Plain 'ole lies.

If they end up shipping something that hashes a little less than what they promised with a little more power consumption than intended they are not going to go down as a scam in the court of public opinion.  Well, it's called a "freeroll" where I'm from.  No downside, only a chance to win.

That being said there is still a fucking mountain to climb here.  The number of preorders... oh what a mountain that must be... and to ship all of those minirig orders at hashrates? 

it seems like much, much shipping is yet to be done before BFL is "not a scam" but I will say that they do appear at this stage to have a product.  Which is about when most companies start taking pre-orders. 

[gbx]

Well...

Using preorder cash the way they have is a crime.  It must be a crime....  Last time I preordered something, my credit card was charged when the item was SHIPPED.

But, here's what really pissed me off.  I couldn't believe the amount of disrespect he displayed at CES.  I'm not sure what he was so pissed about, because I'm sure he doesn't talk to everyone like that (there must be some undercurrent there)... but at least have the decency and professionalism to explain why you don't want to have a conversation instead of being a jackass.

After watching that, I'd never patronize a company Josh Zerlan was in front of, period.

Have you read this?  I'm sure you have...  http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/engineering-the-bitcoin-gold-rush-an-interview-with-yifu-guo-creator-of-the-first-asic-based-miner

From an ASIC perspective, things got serious in around June or July when Butterfly Labs first released their ASIC lineup, which was a big deal. They promised to ship in October, and in a matter of days took in over a million dollars

....

We never intended for this to be a real business. But then lo and behold, Butterfly Labs announced that they were delayed. October came and went, November came and went, December came and went and they still hadn’t shipped. Meanwhile, we’re chugging along.

So Avalon decided to get into the ASIC game AFTER BFL announced their line up and beat them to the market.  It looks like these guys are ramping up production too... actually, these guys are dialed in.  They make BFL look like ASIC chumps.

I would put a bet that even if BFL is able to produce something for the masses, someone is not going to get their unit.  In order to meet price commitments, they're going to have to be the loss leader in ASICs...  and eventually, some folks at the end of the line isn't going to get in the door.

[LightRider]

Latest episode of Security Now has some discussion of this towards the end.
www.twit.tv/sn

[yolo2222]

Well...

Using preorder cash the way they have is a crime.  It must be a crime....  Last time I preordered something, my credit card was charged when the item was SHIPPED.

But, here's what really pissed me off.  I couldn't believe the amount of disrespect he displayed at CES.  I'm not sure what he was so pissed about, because I'm sure he doesn't talk to everyone like that (there must be some undercurrent there)... but at least have the decency and professionalism to explain why you don't want to have a conversation instead of being a jackass.

After watching that, I'd never patronize a company Josh Zerlan was in front of, period.

Have you read this?  I'm sure you have...  http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/engineering-the-bitcoin-gold-rush-an-interview-with-yifu-guo-creator-of-the-first-asic-based-miner

From an ASIC perspective, things got serious in around June or July when Butterfly Labs first released their ASIC lineup, which was a big deal. They promised to ship in October, and in a matter of days took in over a million dollars

....

We never intended for this to be a real business. But then lo and behold, Butterfly Labs announced that they were delayed. October came and went, November came and went, December came and went and they still hadn’t shipped. Meanwhile, we’re chugging along.

So Avalon decided to get into the ASIC game AFTER BFL announced their line up and beat them to the market.  It looks like these guys are ramping up production too... actually, these guys are dialed in.  They make BFL look like ASIC chumps.

I would put a bet that even if BFL is able to produce something for the masses, someone is not going to get their unit.  In order to meet price commitments, they're going to have to be the loss leader in ASICs...  and eventually, some folks at the end of the line isn't going to get in the door.

you sir, got def. too much freetime... which Josh certainly has not...

[mojod]

so here is the supposed "Luke Unit" hashing on Josh's pool (lol ppl really connect to his pool? ppl should not trust Josh Zerlan with hashing power IMO)

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL


Does anyone believe this is the luke Unit?  that it's really been hashing that fast for that long?   

I would love to hear opinions.

is it just eating power like a boss?

so hot you can fry an egg on it?

special pcb or not even mounted on a board, i.e. no real way to take it from lab --> consumer product?

Bryan you're a dumbass. Eligius is not Josh's pool. Eliguis WAS a pool that belonged to Luke, but he handed it over to wizkid.
Josh's pool is eclipse. Every time you open your mouth...

[gbx]

Well...

Using preorder cash the way they have is a crime.  It must be a crime....  Last time I preordered something, my credit card was charged when the item was SHIPPED.

But, here's what really pissed me off.  I couldn't believe the amount of disrespect he displayed at CES.  I'm not sure what he was so pissed about, because I'm sure he doesn't talk to everyone like that (there must be some undercurrent there)... but at least have the decency and professionalism to explain why you don't want to have a conversation instead of being a jackass.

After watching that, I'd never patronize a company Josh Zerlan was in front of, period.

Have you read this?  I'm sure you have...  http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/engineering-the-bitcoin-gold-rush-an-interview-with-yifu-guo-creator-of-the-first-asic-based-miner

From an ASIC perspective, things got serious in around June or July when Butterfly Labs first released their ASIC lineup, which was a big deal. They promised to ship in October, and in a matter of days took in over a million dollars

....

We never intended for this to be a real business. But then lo and behold, Butterfly Labs announced that they were delayed. October came and went, November came and went, December came and went and they still hadn’t shipped. Meanwhile, we’re chugging along.

So Avalon decided to get into the ASIC game AFTER BFL announced their line up and beat them to the market.  It looks like these guys are ramping up production too... actually, these guys are dialed in.  They make BFL look like ASIC chumps.

I would put a bet that even if BFL is able to produce something for the masses, someone is not going to get their unit.  In order to meet price commitments, they're going to have to be the loss leader in ASICs...  and eventually, some folks at the end of the line isn't going to get in the door.

you sir, got def. too much freetime... which Josh certainly has not...

Yeah, Josh is probably too busy spending OPM on Google ads and making marketing videos.  How about some people posting about how excited they are to receive their UPS tracking number for their purchases they made nearly 12 months ago?  I'd spend some freetime on that.

Here's one...  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/1693-definite-shipping-date-4.html

And I wish I had too much free time.  If you're not disgusted by their business tactics, then you're not thinking straight.

[yolo2222]

thinking straight, but not all the time

i ordered during the peak of 230, spent some coins.

If you gonna whine, get refund and make your own ASIC or i dont know...

Be happy man!

[gbx]

thinking straight, but not all the time

i ordered during the peak of 230, spent some coins.

If you gonna whine, get refund and make your own ASIC or i dont know...

Be happy man!

I hear you.  I was in the game for a while with BFL also but I jumped out after February.

I hope they deliver for you.  I don't think any of us are wishing ill-will on the company, promise, or their customers.  But it's been a mighty long time, and I think the natives are beyond restless.

I looked at the Avalon DIY project.  It looks doable, but it'd be one heck of a workout.  I'd rather just buy more GPUs for the moment.

[yolo2222]

good choice.

Josh said today they will delivier in ONE WEEK 

[gbx]

good choice.

Josh said today they will delivier in ONE WEEK 

I thought it was "two weeks"   Well, that's been the carrot promise on the end of the stick.

Where's your reference for your claim?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eF6FSdur8k

[l008com]

April has turned into May?

  I'm as sarcastically shocked as I can get!

[l008com]

good choice.

Josh said today they will delivier in ONE WEEK 

I thought it was "two weeks"   Well, that's been the carrot promise on the end of the stick.

Where's your reference for your claim?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eF6FSdur8k

3-4 per day? My order number was 44,000 (cancelled). So if they work 7 days a week, I would have gotten my order in about 30 years.

I like how the guy in the video talks down to us, like we're jerks for wondering why items preordered and paid for 9 months ago haven't been shipped.

[MPOE-PR]

3-4 per day? My order number was 44,000 (cancelled). So if they work 7 days a week, I would have gotten my order in about 30 years.

I like how the guy in the video talks down to us, like we're jerks for wondering why items preordered and paid for 9 months ago haven't been shipped.

Heh.

[Flying Hellfish]

Did you guys talk about this already?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191600.0