Health and Religion

[CoinCube]

They all follow the bible, what are you saying lmao, you don't have an argument here, it's clear that a country with a lot of christians doesn't mean a good country, plenty of examples.

What people say is much less important then what people do. It is the reality that matters not the self identification.

Venezuela for example is 70-80% Catholic but only 10% of those people are highly committed to their faith as I highlighted immediately above.

Some 70% of the population of Sweden is a member of the Church of Sweden but only 15 percent of members of the Church of Sweden say they believe in Jesus which is pretty much the core belief of Christianity.
https://www.thelocal.se/20110615/34370

Are you saying Catholics don't believe in Jesus Christ? 

Many don't. The vast majority of people in the Church of Sweden clearly don't so why would you expect Catholicism to be different.  If you want to judge the strength of a religion in a country the best metric is probably regular weekly Church attendance. Once there is a cost even if it is only time reality manifest. Talk is cheap.

[CoinCube]

You obviously never lived in the Latin America.  People there invite their priests to bless their new cars, right there at the car dealerships.
They are extremely religious.  Everything is about God down there.  Venezuela might be an exception.

BTW, I was raised Catholic and can tell you that Jesus Christ is their main character.

Actually I have. I lived in Costa Rica for several months some years ago. I agree that it was a pretty religious place. However, I did not feel it was dramaticly more religious then the US. Latin America is a big place and far from uniform. Here is a chart on the religious commitment of various countries in Latin America. The Catholic commitment numbers are the ones to focus on as these countries are mostly Catholic. Costa Rica is pretty high which matches my experience.

I did not, however, feel that Costa Rica was dramatically more religious then the US and this observation too manifest itself in the US data where we see that the USA is a huge outlier compared other rich countries.


http://www.pewforum.org/2014/11/13/religion-in-latin-america/


http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/in-the-u-s-religious-commitment-is-high-and-the-gender-gap-is-wide/

[BADecker]

In addition to the above ^^^, the people in those countries are Roman Catholic, not Christian. Ask them. They'll tell you. Roman Catholic in Spanish speaking countries is different than it is in the States. They are Catholic first, and if they are Christian at all, it's at least second.

Venezuela (89%), Honduras (87%) and El Salvador (80%) are very Christian countries.  Where is CoinCube to point out how Christian values help societies and that without Christianity people would be killing each other in the streets?   Oh, wait, that is what they are doing in those three countries.

Are you saying Catholics don't believe in Jesus Christ?  

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Schisms_and_their_Councils.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination

I'm having a hard time understanding how you and Astargath even get along in life. You quote me (above). Then you ask me what I am saying? Can't you even read? Do you have eyes that see, and ears that hear, but fail to comprehend? What good would it be for me to answer you?, since you can't even seem to be able to understand what I post, or maybe that I posted something, even though you quoted it. Is that what twisting yourself into attempting to believe that you are an atheist, when you know that you can never be one, does to you?

[Anya Doreen]

God doesn't simply answer prayers for a show. He does it for people who are in need. Certainly someone who loses both arms and legs is someone in need and plenty of people that actually believe in god have been praying for them and yet it never happened. I guess god doesn't want to show us his existence that way, it would be too easy and it would make us atheists believe in him, he obviously doesn't want that

How really silly are you trying to be? Consider the following.

Make a real arm or leg. You can't do it. Science can't do it. After painstaking research, science is only finally finding out how to adapt the nature of a few animals that CAN regrow limbs, in such a way that they might possibly apply it to people someday. In other words, as far as science goes, regrowing limbs is still way beyond their reach.

What does this mean? This means that there is a lot of technology in growing arms and legs. Science doesn't have a clue, science is completely blind, regarding how to grow a limb from scratch without using some of the processes that nature has provided. To repeat, science has absolutely no idea as to how to take a bunch of chemicals and turn them into an arm or leg.

The point? The point is that regrowing an arm or leg requires a large amount of capability, way beyond anything that we can even imagine at this time.

So, where did you get your arms and legs that you have already? Didn't you get them free? Certainly you didn't buy them, right? You might have exercised them or trained them in certain ways, but if you hadn't gotten them free, there would be no way you could get them at all!

Again, the point is that there is a tremendous amount of "stuff" in the nature of arms an legs that is miraculous regarding anything that we can do to make them.

Now consider the miracles that Jesus did as recorded in the Bible. Some of them were done quite easily by Him. Look at the transfiguration of Jesus in Matthew 17. While Jesus and 3 of His disciples were on the mount of transfiguration, a man with a demon (epilepsy?) possessed son came to the disciples He had left behind at the foot of the mountain for help. But they couldn't heal the boy. The disciples couldn't cast the demon out as they had done at other times, possibly because it was epilepsy. Look at what happens when Jesus comes into the situation, Matthew 17:16-21:

"... 16I brought him to your disciples, but they couldn’t heal him.”

17Jesus replied, “You unbelieving and perverted generation! How long must I be with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me!” 18Then Jesus rebuked the demon and it came out of him, and the boy was healed that very hour.

19Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”

20He told them, “Because of your lack of faith. I tell all of you with certainty, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you. 21But this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting.”

You won't ever get the things you desire along these lines of healing. Why not? No faith. The Bible section shown above shows why something as tremendous as regrowing arms and legs isn't being done in miraculous ways by more than a few people. They aren't praying and fasting enough in faith.

Again, why doesn't a small amount of prayer and fasting work to restore lost limbs? Because of the gigantic amount of "technology" within things like limbs. It is also why you lost any faith that you might have had years ago. You simply gave up when it didn't work out for you like you thought it should.

It's actually really funny how you are trying to justify it lol, you always give me a good laugh.

'' The point is that regrowing an arm or leg requires a large amount of capability, way beyond anything that we can even imagine at this time.'' Which is exactly the kind of miracle that would prove god's existence or at least make us wonder how the hell did that guy grow back a limb instantly?

''Again, why doesn't a small amount of prayer and fasting work to restore lost limbs? Because of the gigantic amount of "technology" within things like limbs.'' What is that even supposed to mean, that god answers prayers based on how much you pray and how difficult it is to do it? Well according to the bible it shouldn't be difficult at all, god is all powerful so growing a limb back is the same as healing a blind person, god doesn't find anything to be more difficult than anything, your argument is garbage.

I don't really think that God answers our prayers through the way we prayed or how much effort we put into it. God answers our prayer through looking into our hearts. Just try to look and study the Bible more. The stories there of people praying are asking for something, a miracle. But it wasn't meant for them alone. It's for their loved one or friends. A tremendous amount of love and sacrificed to be able to tell to Jesus that some of their family or friends need their healing. But most importantly after praying they believe. They believe that even just a word said by the Lord it will happen. That's how faith works. Being sure of what you haven't seen yet and being certain despite of those uncertainties in your life. Anyway, God may not be the Lord of miracle who showed those things before right now. But He's way are still the same. Now is the time of being wise on which faith you're going to believe in. Because time of His return is coming soon. So this is the period where we are being tested if we are being faithful to Him or if we really believe in Him despite of those unseen miracles He showed ancient of times ago.

[CoinCube]

Religious people live four YEARS longer than those who don’t believe in God, study reveals
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/science/religious-people-live-four-years-12704829.amp

People with religious affiliations live nearly four years longer than those with no religious ties, according to a new study.

Researchers from the Ohio State Universitylooked at the link between religion and length of life, by analysing over 1,000 obituaries.

Laura Wallace, who led the study, said: “Religious affiliation had nearly as strong an effect on longevity as gender does, which is a matter of years of life.”

The researchers found that part of the reason that religious people lived long was that they also volunteered and belonged to social organisations - both of which have been linked to living longer.

Ms Wallace said: “We found that volunteerism and involvement in social organisations only accounted for a little less than one year of the longevity boost that religious affiliation provided.

“There’s still a lot of the benefit of religious affiliation that this can't explain.”

The researchers suggested that the added benefit may be related to the rules and norms of many religions - such as the restriction of alcohol and drug use.

Professor Baldwin Way, co-author of the study, added: “Many religions promote stress-reducing practices that may improve health, such as gratitude, prayer or meditation.”

The researchers hope their findings will help with future studies exploring the effect of religion on health.

[BADecker]

The conclusion should have been that

- restriction of alcohol and drug use
- less stress
- volunteerism
- involvement in social organizations
- strong family relationships

all contribute to a longer life. 

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

[mymenace]

The conclusion should have been that

- restriction of alcohol and drug use
- less stress
- volunteerism
- involvement in social organizations
- strong family relationships

all contribute to a longer life.  

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

better to burn out, than fade away

[BADecker]

The conclusion should have been that

- restriction of alcohol and drug use
- less stress
- volunteerism
- involvement in social organizations
- strong family relationships

all contribute to a longer life.  

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

better to burn out, than fade away

Better to live healthy than burn out or fade away, even if religion is what does it.

[BADecker]

The conclusion should have been that

- restriction of alcohol and drug use
- less stress
- volunteerism
- involvement in social organizations
- strong family relationships

all contribute to a longer life. 

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Common sense.

Common sense says to get religion.     

[Astargath]

The conclusion should have been that

- restriction of alcohol and drug use
- less stress
- volunteerism
- involvement in social organizations
- strong family relationships

all contribute to a longer life. 

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

[CoinCube]

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Nor does it make religion false. If you reject something true and sacrifice your health in the process then you are simply foolish.

[BADecker]

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Religion is always true. After all, you are truly living your own personal religion. If it were not true, you wouldn't be living it. However, some parts of your personal religion are not correct. Mostly they deal with things like the existence of God, and the future.

[Astargath]

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Religion is always true. After all, you are truly living your own personal religion. If it were not true, you wouldn't be living it. However, some parts of your personal religion are not correct. Mostly they deal with things like the existence of God, and the future.

You never explained how faith and free will exist together, I asked you several times but you always ignore it in the end because you know it makes no sense. You claim we all have faith at first but you also claim we can lose that faith thanks to our free will, however, things outside our free will like your mother dying or being born in a muslim country are not things you control. You agree that someone born in a christian country has it much easier to believe in the bible than someone born in a muslim one, right? Obviously those  2 situations are totally different, totally unfair as well for the guy who is born in the muslim country. How is any of this fair if we all experience life in different forms and we don't control any of it?

[BADecker]

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Religion is always true. After all, you are truly living your own personal religion. If it were not true, you wouldn't be living it. However, some parts of your personal religion are not correct. Mostly they deal with things like the existence of God, and the future.

You never explained how faith and free will exist together, I asked you several times but you always ignore it in the end because you know it makes no sense. - What? Am I your answer man? All you do is ask questions to try to trip me up. Figure the answer out for yourself one time. You claim we all have faith at first but you also claim we can lose that faith thanks to our free will, however, things outside our free will like your mother dying or being born in a muslim country are not things you control. - I would guess that you are over 20 years old. Do you remember every move that you made when you were 1-y-o? How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived, since you don't remember anything back that far very clearly if at all? Science doesn't know anything about this one way or another. But you seem very sure of it. Why? You agree that someone born in a christian country has it much easier to believe in the bible than someone born in a muslim one, right? Obviously those  2 situations are totally different, totally unfair as well for the guy who is born in the muslim country. How is any of this fair if we all experience life in different forms and we don't control any of it?

But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select, and how God judges. His judgment is absolutely fair. In fact, it is so extremely fair towards people that God sent His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for their poor choices. In other words, God bent over backwards becoming, like, unfair to His son, just to be way more than fair to you. How God makes it up in fairness to Jesus is their business.

Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak.

[Astargath]

And what makes people adhere to these things? The biggest reason by far is that they get religion, and then act according to what their religion tells them... to not harm their bodies. So, they stop doing harmful things, and start doing healthy things. Health and religion go hand in hand.

Unfortunately that does not make religion true. If you need a lie to be healthy then you are simply weak.

Religion is always true. After all, you are truly living your own personal religion. If it were not true, you wouldn't be living it. However, some parts of your personal religion are not correct. Mostly they deal with things like the existence of God, and the future.

You never explained how faith and free will exist together, I asked you several times but you always ignore it in the end because you know it makes no sense. - What? Am I your answer man? All you do is ask questions to try to trip me up. Figure the answer out for yourself one time. You claim we all have faith at first but you also claim we can lose that faith thanks to our free will, however, things outside our free will like your mother dying or being born in a muslim country are not things you control. - I would guess that you are over 20 years old. Do you remember every move that you made when you were 1-y-o? How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived, since you don't remember anything back that far very clearly if at all? Science doesn't know anything about this one way or another. But you seem very sure of it. Why? You agree that someone born in a christian country has it much easier to believe in the bible than someone born in a muslim one, right? Obviously those  2 situations are totally different, totally unfair as well for the guy who is born in the muslim country. How is any of this fair if we all experience life in different forms and we don't control any of it?

But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select, and how God judges. His judgment is absolutely fair. In fact, it is so extremely fair towards people that God sent His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for their poor choices. In other words, God bent over backwards becoming, like, unfair to His son, just to be way more than fair to you. How God makes it up in fairness to Jesus is their business.

Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak.

''How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived'' Even if I did, how am I doing it? You said free will it's only in faith in god, picking my mother is not part of the free will therefore, I'm not actually doing it, god is, since he is the one who set everything in motion.

''But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select'' Yes I do, you always claim cause and effect is in everything, God is responsible for everything that happens, he is the ultimate cause, isn't he? Therefore everything that you and I select aren't really our choices.

[BADecker]

But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select, and how God judges. His judgment is absolutely fair. In fact, it is so extremely fair towards people that God sent His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for their poor choices. In other words, God bent over backwards becoming, like, unfair to His son, just to be way more than fair to you. How God makes it up in fairness to Jesus is their business.

Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak.

''How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived'' Even if I did, how am I doing it? You said free will it's only in faith in god, picking my mother is not part of the free will therefore, I'm not actually doing it, god is, since he is the one who set everything in motion.

''But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select'' Yes I do, you always claim cause and effect is in everything, God is responsible for everything that happens, he is the ultimate cause, isn't he? Therefore everything that you and I select aren't really our choices.

Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us.

How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere.

[Astargath]

But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select, and how God judges. His judgment is absolutely fair. In fact, it is so extremely fair towards people that God sent His Son, Jesus, to take the punishment for their poor choices. In other words, God bent over backwards becoming, like, unfair to His son, just to be way more than fair to you. How God makes it up in fairness to Jesus is their business.

Nobody gets punished for his sins. Jesus already took that punishment. God does not punish more than once for the same sins. Rather, we now get punished for not listening to the Holy Spirit, the only sin Jesus did not atone for. It's in the Bible, Mark 3:28-30:

28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

And as usual, God makes the punishment fit the crime. So, stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit before your damnation for it becomes final... locked in stone so to speak.

''How do you know that you didn't select who would be your mother before you were conceived'' Even if I did, how am I doing it? You said free will it's only in faith in god, picking my mother is not part of the free will therefore, I'm not actually doing it, god is, since he is the one who set everything in motion.

''But you don't know about the fairness involved, simply because you don't know who selects, how they select'' Yes I do, you always claim cause and effect is in everything, God is responsible for everything that happens, he is the ultimate cause, isn't he? Therefore everything that you and I select aren't really our choices.

Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us.

How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere.

So then you admit it's god doing the choices for us, so what's the point of all of this if it's god the one responsible for all our actions. Why would god choose for me to be an atheist then? It makes no sense, badecker.

[BADecker]

Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us.

How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere.

So then you admit it's god doing the choices for us, so what's the point of all of this if it's god the one responsible for all our actions. Why would god choose for me to be an atheist then? It makes no sense, badecker.

Just like your buddy the devil. Changing a little word here and there. I said our choices, not the choices.

[Astargath]

Isaiah chapter 48 expresses things about this. It says that God knows how deceptive people are. So, He does what He does to hold up the honor of His Own Great Name. The honor He is upholding lies in the fact that He placed a touch of His Spirit into each and every one of us, thereby making us our own God-like entity. Therefore, we have freedom of choice just like He does, even though the touch of God that we are doesn't have the strength of itself to carry out our choices. That's why He carries out our choices for us.

How does God carry out our choices for us? In the cause and effect that I can rightly claim, because it is in evidence throughout nature, and its opposite - pure random - has not been found to exist anywhere.

So then you admit it's god doing the choices for us, so what's the point of all of this if it's god the one responsible for all our actions. Why would god choose for me to be an atheist then? It makes no sense, badecker.

Just like your buddy the devil. Changing a little word here and there. I said our choices, not the choices.

So does god carry out our choices or not. If he does then how am I responsible for any of my actions?

[BADecker]

So does god carry out our choices or not. If he does then how am I responsible for any of my actions?

A simple example is, you go to a restaurant. The waitress asks you what your choice off the menu is. You tell the waitress. If the cook didn't prepare the dish, and the waitress didn't bring it to you, you wouldn't get it. When they carry out your wishes, you get your food. You had faith that they would do it, but they didn't have to. However, they did.