Health and Religion

[BADecker]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone...

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place...

I don't think I am over complicating things at all. Quite the opposite actually.

If you don't care about the future we are unlikely to agree on much at all. Personally I believe we have a duty to pass on a world to the next generation that is better then the one we inherited. That requires us to think about civilizations, and descendants even if we don't have children. If you don't care about maintaining your civilization you are hurting someone. You are hurting the unborn who will inherit the mess. The fact that those individuals don't exist yet does not mitigate the harm.

In regards to changing morals over time please see my next post.

Yeah, I know you believe many things, however that doesn't make them true. The future doesn't exist. There could be more harm if in the future a meteorite hits the earth and everyone dies, you don't know that, I don't know that, talking about the future is meaningless.

''It is entirely possible that Biblical law was the best possible set of rules that simultaneously moved a barbaric humanity closer to moral truth'' Maybe but even If we agree on that, the bible is still useless now and it's the only proof for god. God should in any case give us new laws, is he asleep?

The laws of the Bible are best. The overarching law in the Bible is, "Love your neighbor as yourself." It is expressed best in the words, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." There is no law that exists that is better than this. Making new laws or a new-law revision of the Bible would only detract from what is good. There is nothing greater than loving your neighbor as yourself.

[BADecker]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

[Astargath]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

[Astargath]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

I don't see how your answer has anything to do with what we were discussing, which is morals, homosexuality and punishments but go ahead, be delusional as always.

[bluemongrel]

It's not religious belief in itself that is helpful with health, but many religions are set up to promote social collectivism and keep the family unit together, which helps with health as it provides a good, stable environment to raise children in.

Also, just because a group has many children does not mean they are more healthy. There is alot of overweight, fat Christians in the US, for example. However I would say that as a group, Mormons are physically healthy because many of them focus on family helping eachother in hard times, providing a social net for fellow Mormons, and because they don't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

[CoinCube]

What about if your neighbors are a gay couple who adopted two Christian boys and dressed them as girls.  They also sublet to a group transvestites who go door to door to sell women's underwear and lipstick.  One time you saw your gay neighbors make out right in front of your house. They also burned bunch of bibles in their backyard (they called the fire department to warn them about the yard garbage fire).

Your son goes to the same school as the two boys and fell in love with one of them.  He told you that he will marry one of them.

They also have a nice statue of Jesus sitting on a massive cock made out of wood surrounded by the village people Apostles in their backyard.

Your other neighbor is a swinger couple who host swinger's parties in their backyard.  They keep inviting you to their parties to bang some hot 20 year olds with massive boobs but you keep refusing, you dream about it, but instead you go and read the bible with your wife.

1. What does the Bible say how to deal with your neighbors?
2. What would the people in the ancient Israel do to your neighbors after reading the Bible?

All of those activities are now totally legal. Your scenario sadly becoming less far fetched by the day. The Bible says those things are wrong and sinful severe crimes which should be outlawed. The Bible, however, does not promote vigilante justice.

In situations such as this it offers clear guidence. Move away, enroll your child in private school or home school and let your neighbors deal with the fallout of their own choices. See the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Biblical law does not promote vigilante justice. In ancient Israel the those suspected of capital crimes would be arrested and their would be a trial with strict standards of evidence including multiple eyewitness required for conviction.

[Impulseboy]

Regardless of the religion isn't the basis of humanity to show kindness and compassion to one another? I'm just asking...

[Astargath]

What about if your neighbors are a gay couple who adopted two Christian boys and dressed them as girls.  They also sublet to a group transvestites who go door to door to sell women's underwear and lipstick.  One time you saw your gay neighbors make out right in front of your house. They also burned bunch of bibles in their backyard (they called the fire department to warn them about the yard garbage fire).

Your son goes to the same school as the two boys and fell in love with one of them.  He told you that he will marry one of them.

They also have a nice statue of Jesus sitting on a massive cock made out of wood surrounded by the village people Apostles in their backyard.

Your other neighbor is a swinger couple who host swinger's parties in their backyard.  They keep inviting you to their parties to bang some hot 20 year olds with massive boobs but you keep refusing, you dream about it, but instead you go and read the bible with your wife.

1. What does the Bible say how to deal with your neighbors?
2. What would the people in the ancient Israel do to your neighbors after reading the Bible?

All of those activities are now totally legal. Your scenario sadly becoming less far fetched by the day. The Bible says those things are wrong and sinful severe crimes which should be outlawed. The Bible, however, does not promote vigilante justice.

In situations such as this it offers clear guidence. Move away, enroll your child in private school or home school and let your neighbors deal with the fallout of their own choices. See the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Biblical law does not promote vigilante justice. In ancient Israel the those suspected of capital crimes would be arrested and their would be a trial with strict standards of evidence including multiple eyewitness required for conviction.

The question still remains would they be legal in the absence of our secular legal framework.  What would happen if people used only Bible as the moral guidance?

Think Islamic or Christian state devoid of secularism.

What do you think would happen to BADecker's neighbors?

At this point it's clear that they don't to admit that the morals that are taught in the bible are simply wrong, most of them at least, also contradictory. The punishments are also extremely hard or just stupid.

[BADecker]

What about if your neighbors are a gay couple who adopted two Christian boys and dressed them as girls.  They also sublet to a group transvestites who go door to door to sell women's underwear and lipstick.  One time you saw your gay neighbors make out right in front of your house. They also burned bunch of bibles in their backyard (they called the fire department to warn them about the yard garbage fire).

Your son goes to the same school as the two boys and fell in love with one of them.  He told you that he will marry one of them.

They also have a nice statue of Jesus sitting on a massive cock made out of wood surrounded by the village people Apostles in their backyard.

Your other neighbor is a swinger couple who host swinger's parties in their backyard.  They keep inviting you to their parties to bang some hot 20 year olds with massive boobs but you keep refusing, you dream about it, but instead you go and read the bible with your wife.

1. What does the Bible say how to deal with your neighbors?
2. What would the people in the ancient Israel do to your neighbors after reading the Bible?

There are many places in the Bible that show what we are to do regarding our neighbor. One of them is Mark 12:31 (partial):

Love your neighbor as yourself.

The next question has to do with who your neighbors are. Jesus says it this way, Luke 10:30:

29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two denariie and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Now that we know who our neighbors are, we need to distinguish between closer neighbors, and neighbors who are farther away. Since closer neighbors may be family members who you are responsible for, you have to judge which neighbors you might have to protect from other neighbors who are farther away.

Next, you have to judge between neighbors and enemies, or neighbors who might not be neighbors, but might be enemies. Jesus says in Matthew 5:43-48:

43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Is all this easy to do? Not all the time. For example, you might have to treat some neighbors harshly, both to protect other neighbors, and also to straighten those "naughty" neighbors out. You might even have to consider some of your neighbors to be enemies if they are adamant in their incorrect living. But you have love for them in your heart even as you straighten them out, and protect other neighbors from them.

God guides His people in the best ways to do all of this.

[BADecker]

So God is a dictator?  How do you know what God wants?

Are you sure?  Maybe it is what you want?  Your personal projection on what God wants is enough proof that God is in your head.

But we have been over this many times.

I suspect you secretly wish the printing press has never been invented because people would only read from one book, the Bible.

Guess what? Your religion con is up.  It has been exposed.  Hopefully, humanity can look past the ancient zombie myths (Jesus, Mithras, Osiris etc) and advance forward.

You religitards are a dying breed.
  

God absolutely IS a dictator. What do dictators do? They dictate, right? God dictates freedom, so that you have the ability to do what you want. He also dictates what is best for you to do in your freedom, so that you can have freedom in the best way. It is up to you to be more free by listening to God's dictation, or less free by doing your own dictation.

The printing press is great. It allows for Bibles to be spread around the world. And the Bibles are being spread more than any other book. Why? Because the Bible is the best information out there. If it wasn't, it would have been overrun easily within the last 2,000 years.

Unfortunately for them, there are a bunch of "secularitards" who are so caught up in their desires for destruction, and ignorance about the destruction they are desiring, that they keep on being "secularitards."

[BADecker]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

I don't see how your answer has anything to do with what we were discussing, which is morals, homosexuality and punishments but go ahead, be delusional as always.

You can't seem to understand that there is no use for homosexuality, and that it is therefore imperfection.

People of the same sex can sleep together if it doesn't involve the sexual acts that heterosexual people do. They can be best of friends... even better friends than husband and wife... as long as they don't do the sexual acts that are to be done between heterosexuals only.

It is the imperfection that is the problem.

[BADecker]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

[Astargath]

More like you like to over complicate things using pseudo science bullshit to try to make your point. ''Almost all of the sexually permissive civilizations of antiquity are extinct.'' Who cares? Civilizations, descendants, they are all meaningless to me, my purpose is not to reproduce and have children. My purpose is to live my life the best I can trying not to hurt anyone, my freedom ends where yours starts and all that. I couldn't care less about someone's sexual preferences as long as he/she is not taking someone else freedom away.

I understand that a farmer getting frisky with his sheep is immoral because there is no real way of knowing if the sheep is giving consent. However that obviously is not the case with humans. Now the punishment itself seems also quite strong, death penalty, why? Doesn't god want people to repent? How would anyone repent if you get killed immediately?

Cheating is wrong but is it worth it of a death penalty? Again, it's not. In fact in current era we don't even punish people for that.

The fact is that morals change because they were bad in the first place, we are trying to achieve ''perfect morality'' whether that is possible or not, the problem is that god would have known and knows what that is if it exists and yet you don't find it in the bible. If the bible is the only proof he leaves to convince me then he did a poor job.

But perfection is the important thing. Consider. There are countless actions and reactions between materials and energies, all operating perfectly, as evidenced by the non-destruction of the universe. Yet there is an appearance of imperfection in many things we do and think. How can we reconcile the idea of perfection necessary for existence with the imperfection that we are aware of?

The answer is the torture and death of Jesus in taking the imperfection and... the resurrection of Jesus, in perfecting even imperfection itself.

Jesus, having had enough power to take the punishment, and then having enough power to arise from the dead, shows that He has enough power to control everything. When we don't believe what He says, it's like we are asking for the destruction we would receive from having imperfection.

This perfection of imperfection is only temporary time, before the time of the new order and the New Universe. It exists only for God to find the people who will believe in Him, and who will accept movement from this life to the New Universe. It's called Jesus salvation.

I don't see how your answer has anything to do with what we were discussing, which is morals, homosexuality and punishments but go ahead, be delusional as always.

You can't seem to understand that there is no use for homosexuality, and that it is therefore imperfection.

People of the same sex can sleep together if it doesn't involve the sexual acts that heterosexual people do. They can be best of friends... even better friends than husband and wife... as long as they don't do the sexual acts that are to be done between heterosexuals only.

It is the imperfection that is the problem.

There is no use for me to play football or any other sport or any videogame either, so what? Should I be killed for it? Use for what exactly? If imperfection is the problem then everything is a sin.

[Astargath]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

[BADecker]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

God's Spirit to your spirit doesn't happen to you - yes, you. But if it did, you wouldn't necessarily hear voices.

[Astargath]

But you yourself said that the laws in the old testament are no longer applicable, if they are the best, they should, no?

Nope. I didn't post that. They are totally applicable. But, they are not given to us. There is not one living person on earth to whom they have been given. Why? Because there is no ancient Israel person alive any longer.

What we have exists in two parts:
1. The laws written in the heart and mind of all people, but flawed in their visibility and application;
2. The Holy Spirit's guidance in the hearts and minds of the Christians so that they know the laws in the best way.

The Christians are guided by the HS to do what is right according to "love your neighbor as yourself," the way God wants it to be done.

The "secularitards" simply use pieces of the law in their hearts and minds to erroneously formulate laws that they think are better.

Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.

''Become a Christian, and get the best instructions for living from God, Himself.'' If you hear voices you might be mentally ill, get checked.

God's Spirit to your spirit doesn't happen to you - yes, you. But if it did, you wouldn't necessarily hear voices.

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

[BADecker]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

[Astargath]

I was a Christian and I always thought the rules in the bible were shit and stupid for the most part. ''Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19''
''Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27'
''"I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11''

Divinely inspired LOL

A Christian is a believer. You were never a Christian.   

I know it bothers you really hard but I was, when I was a kid I truly believed, why wouldn't I. When I needed proof god didn't give it to me so here we are. However the rules of the bible are still idiotic, examples above.

[Dinushan_US]

Every Religion lead us to clam down clear our mind and otherwise when we are in series lost in our life religions gives us relief therefore religions help us to mental relief

[gbale]

I believe that religion brings human beings into real human beings because religious teachings regulate every line of human life with rules of rules that limit human nature...