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Author Topic: Health and Religion  (Read 191462 times)
bj2639
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September 25, 2017, 05:10:47 PM
 #1541

Your assumption that atheism and socialism are somehow downsides of high IQ is deeply flawed. Also, isn't it quite telling that the smarter a person is, the less likely they are to believe fairytales? I never understand how people can't just see that maybe they should revisit their beliefs rather than constantly saying that things like science are being manipulated to disprove their beliefs. The obvious answer is that bronze age mythology is just as wrong as Norse mythology or Greek. There is no Odin, there is no Zeus, there is no Yahweh. Ask yourself why 2 of those statements don't bother you, but the third one does. Anything that you use to disprove the first two will disprove your own god too.
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September 25, 2017, 07:00:30 PM
 #1542

It's not the religion per se, it's the structure of the entire religious organization which prevents some brains to develop
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September 25, 2017, 08:56:17 PM
 #1543


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp
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September 25, 2017, 09:11:16 PM
 #1544


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp

I surely can, ''Bovinerifle said the hallucinogenic drug DMT gave him the same experience as his NDE. '' He himself says that hallucinogenic drugs had the same effect as his ''near death experience, why? Well because he was hallucinating lol. Yes brain activity may continue for a few more minutes than we previously thought but that means nothing, it will still stop and when it stops, that's it, you are dead forever.
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September 26, 2017, 02:02:47 AM
 #1545

I'm a christian and I don't hate atheists. I can't actually remember when was the last time I felt hate, probably back when I was still an atheist and slave to my emotions like Moloch is today

Did you seriously just say you don't hate Atheists, then in the next sentence slander me?

The hypocrisy is getting thick, and we're still on the first page... slow down hoss
I'm a Christian too but for me don't hate someone or anything because it's a sin ,I don't hate atheists .

qwik2learn
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September 26, 2017, 03:04:24 AM
 #1546


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp

I surely can, ''Bovinerifle said the hallucinogenic drug DMT gave him the same experience as his NDE. '' He himself says that hallucinogenic drugs had the same effect as his ''near death experience, why? Well because he was hallucinating lol. Yes brain activity may continue for a few more minutes than we previously thought but that means nothing, it will still stop and when it stops, that's it, you are dead forever.
Where is your evidence?! I already posted mine and it shows that NDE is different from dreams, and it is hard to explain NDE as a mere byproduct of human evolution. Your claim that it is all so simple is baseless.
. http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html
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September 26, 2017, 03:32:55 AM
 #1547

It is impossible to present a comprehensive list of the ways in which faith influences reactions to medical care, and there are so many variants that comments can only be vague generalizations. And yet, physicians should be aware of areas in which the religion of their patient may strongly influence their response to medical advice. Below are a very few examples of areas you should be aware of in your practice.
Of course, all religions hold the sanctity of life as a central tenet, but they vary in how this is interpreted when difficult issues (abortion, end-of-life care, transplant surgery, etc.) arise.
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September 26, 2017, 03:33:51 AM
 #1548

Religion affects the way in which people present symptoms to the doctor and the types of treatment they will accept. Because some religions place restrictions on certain behaviours, religious beliefs may also influence a person's risk of illness in the first place. Spirituality also appears to confer health benefits, either though intrapsychic feelings of meaning and purpose
CoinCube
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September 26, 2017, 04:46:05 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2017, 07:39:31 PM by CoinCube
 #1549

Your assumption that atheism and socialism are somehow downsides of high IQ is deeply flawed.

Atheism socialism and low fertility all appear to be correlated with high IQ. This relationship was well articulated in the following article published in Mensa magazine.

http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/2012/08/disadvantages-of-high-iq.html?m=1

Whether these things are disadvantages is of course debatable but a strong case can be made that they are.

There is no Odin, there is no Zeus, there is no Yahweh. Ask yourself why 2 of those statements don't bother you, but the third one does.

It does bother me when people choose to deny the infinite. It bothers me because such a rejection is foolish and ultimately self-destructive. It's like watching someone try to drive up the exit ramp of a freeway or rave about the wonders illicit drug use. You worry for them and hope for the best.

I can't be judgemental because I spent a good part of two decades making a similar error. All I can do is catalog the evidence and logic that convinced me that rejecting God is a very poor choice and hope it helps others. If you frantically wave your arms at the car driving the wrong way up a exit ramp there is a chance the driver will notice something is wrong.

Rejection of pagan deities does not bother me because these religions were mostly systems of oppression see: Pagans and Human Sacrifice for details.

In contrast belief in God maximizes long term freedom and prosperity. See the Religion and Progress link at the bottom of the opening post for why this is the case.

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September 26, 2017, 02:53:44 PM
 #1550


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp

I surely can, ''Bovinerifle said the hallucinogenic drug DMT gave him the same experience as his NDE. '' He himself says that hallucinogenic drugs had the same effect as his ''near death experience, why? Well because he was hallucinating lol. Yes brain activity may continue for a few more minutes than we previously thought but that means nothing, it will still stop and when it stops, that's it, you are dead forever.
Where is your evidence?! I already posted mine and it shows that NDE is different from dreams, and it is hard to explain NDE as a mere byproduct of human evolution. Your claim that it is all so simple is baseless.
. http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

The evidence is right there, he himself said that his near death experience was the same as hallucinating on drugs because that's what a near death experience is, hallucinations. Where is your evidence that what he claims he saw is real?
CoinCube
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September 28, 2017, 12:02:05 AM
 #1551


Steady rise in California's STD rates frustrates public health officials
https://www.scpr.org/news/2017/09/26/76048/steady-rise-in-california-s-std-rates-frustrates-p/
Quote from: Rebecca Plevin

"We should not be seeing steady increases in curable infections," says Dr. Jeffrey Klausner, a UCLA professor of medicine and public health. "These are readily detected by routine tests and they are easily cured by antibiotics."

The California Department of Public Health says more than 250,000 cases of STDs were reported in 2016, a 40 percent increase compared with five years ago. Young people, African-Americans and gay and bisexual men had the highest infection rates.

Los Angeles County experienced sharper increases in gonorrhea and congenital syphilis cases than the state as a whole, according to the county Public Health Department.

State health officials say they're particularly concerned about a 43 percent increase in cases of congenital syphilis compared with 2015. The state recorded 207 cases of congenital syphilis last year, the highest number of cases since 1996.

"Countries like Cuba and Thailand have eliminated mother-child transmission [of syphilis], so to see an increase in the United States is frightening," Klausner says.

Congenital syphilis can lead to stillbirth or permanent, lifelong disabilities. It occurs when a mother with syphilis passes the infection to her baby during pregnancy.

All women should be tested for syphilis during their first prenatal visit, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The state report says cases of congenital syphilis are frequently associated with a lack of access to prenatal care, poverty and substance abuse.

In response to the increase in congenital syphilis cases, the L.A. County Department of Public Health will be dispatching public health nurses to provide case management to any women diagnosed with syphilis, according to Mario Perez, director of the department's Division of HIV and STD Programs.

The state also reported a 19 percent increase in gonorrhea cases compared with 2015.

The bacteria that causes gonorrhea has developed resistance to nearly all of the antibiotics used to treat it; the CDC says it's down to one last effective class of antibiotics for gonorrhea.

Klausner is concerned that more cases of the infection will lead to more antibiotic resistance.

"One of our approaches to combatting untreatable gonorrhea is to control gonorrhea, and we're obviously not effectively controlling gonorrhea," he says.

Rates of gonorrhea among men increased 22 percent in 2016 compared with 2015, according to the state report. Men who have sex with men accounted for 63 percent of the state's male cases.

Chlamydia remains the most common reportable disease in California; it's at its highest level since mandated reporting began in 1990.

The highest rates of chlamydia are among young women. The infection can cause serious, permanent damage to a woman's reproductive system, making it difficult or impossible for her to get pregnant later on, according to the CDC.

Perez, with L.A. County, say there are several factors contributing to the steady increase in STDs. He says there's evidence that condom use is decreasing; one reason is because more young women are using long-acting reversible contraception, like IUDs.

"They are protecting themselves against pregnancy, but not protecting themselves against STDs," Perez says. "Condoms continue to play an important role in disease transmission."

And many people aren't being appropriately tested and treated for STDs, even when they visit the doctor, he adds.

"Most of these STDs are asymptomatic and unless we're routinely screening the groups that are most at-risk, a lot of disease is going to go undiagnosed and untreated," Perez says.

Perez says there's dwindling funding for STD prevention programs.

In a statement, the L.A. County public health department says it will be "aligning resources and programming to address the disproportionate impact of STDs in communities of color, and among young people, transgender persons and men who have sex with men."


BADecker
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September 28, 2017, 03:12:04 AM
 #1552


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp

I surely can, ''Bovinerifle said the hallucinogenic drug DMT gave him the same experience as his NDE. '' He himself says that hallucinogenic drugs had the same effect as his ''near death experience, why? Well because he was hallucinating lol. Yes brain activity may continue for a few more minutes than we previously thought but that means nothing, it will still stop and when it stops, that's it, you are dead forever.
Where is your evidence?! I already posted mine and it shows that NDE is different from dreams, and it is hard to explain NDE as a mere byproduct of human evolution. Your claim that it is all so simple is baseless.
. http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

The evidence is right there, he himself said that his near death experience was the same as hallucinating on drugs because that's what a near death experience is, hallucinations. Where is your evidence that what he claims he saw is real?

Oh, this is so interesting. In this thread you can refer to the info, and find the answer to your question. But in the Scientific proof that God exists? you can quote my post, and then ask a question that is answered right in my post that you just quoted, totally playing the game like the answer isn't there.

You are such a game player!

 Cheesy

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
Astargath
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September 28, 2017, 01:41:32 PM
 #1553


We are all going to die and end up in the same place no matter how much you want to believe we are special, I know it's hard to admit but it's the reality, there is nothing beyond death.
How do you know? You cannot deny the experience of others.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/847806/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-DMT-reddit-NDE/amp
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/777449/LIFE-AFTER-DEATH-brain-activity-University-of-Western-Ontario/amp

I surely can, ''Bovinerifle said the hallucinogenic drug DMT gave him the same experience as his NDE. '' He himself says that hallucinogenic drugs had the same effect as his ''near death experience, why? Well because he was hallucinating lol. Yes brain activity may continue for a few more minutes than we previously thought but that means nothing, it will still stop and when it stops, that's it, you are dead forever.
Where is your evidence?! I already posted mine and it shows that NDE is different from dreams, and it is hard to explain NDE as a mere byproduct of human evolution. Your claim that it is all so simple is baseless.
. http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

The evidence is right there, he himself said that his near death experience was the same as hallucinating on drugs because that's what a near death experience is, hallucinations. Where is your evidence that what he claims he saw is real?

Oh, this is so interesting. In this thread you can refer to the info, and find the answer to your question. But in the Scientific proof that God exists? you can quote my post, and then ask a question that is answered right in my post that you just quoted, totally playing the game like the answer isn't there.

You are such a game player!

 Cheesy

What's interesting is how dishonest you are. Your starting point is assuming god exists and you try to prove his existence desperately although no real science man agrees with anything you say.
itsBry
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September 28, 2017, 08:11:46 PM
 #1554

Religion and IQ

High IQ is usually regarded by those that possess it as an unmitigated good. Those gifted with superior intellect are not only smarter, they are statistically more likely to be taller, healthier, and more athletic than average. In his 1920 study on high IQ children Lewis Terman noted that despite these advantages high IQ is not always beneficial. He found that the very brightest often grew up maladjusted in some way suffering from anxiety, depression, personality disorder, or nervous breakdowns.

In Mensa Magazine Bruce G Charlton posited three fundamental disadvantages of high IQ .

Charlton’s triad:
1)   Socialism
2)   Atheism
3)   Reduced Fertility

Charlton argued that IQ is associated with a tendency to embrace socialism, a rejection of religious teachings, and ultimately a declining fertility. The purpose of this essay is to evaluate Charlton’s triad in the context of religion and health. Specifically we will look closely at the potential health effects of atheism.

Religion Health and Wellbeing

Is the lack of religion bad for your health? In a large survey of over 600,000 people Frank Newport and colleagues showed that the very religious not only report higher levels of overall wellbeing they are also more likely to have healthy eating and exercise habits.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/z1upxzv-xkgpuw2tgm-qzw.gif

Every religion reported superior wellbeing to that of atheist but the largest differences were found in the Mormons and the Jews. These are minority religions each comprising about 1.7% of the US population. Examining these two groups will help us better understand the impact of religion on human health.

Mormon Demographics

Demographically Mormons differ greatly from society at large. Nearly two thirds of Mormons 66% are married compared with just over half 48% of the general population. Mormons have large families with a fertility rate of 3.4 children per woman double that of atheists.

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/05/FT_15.05.21_RLSmormon_fertility640px.png

Mormons may also have some immunity the detrimental effect IQ on fertility. In the general population increasing income (highly correlated with IQ) is associated with both declining fertility and declining religious commitment. In Mormons the reverse is true. Mormon fertility is positively correlated with income and Mormons with higher levels of formal education tend to be more religiously committed.

On multiple religious measures Mormons stand out for having exceptionally high levels of religious commitment. More than nine-in-ten Mormons report a belief in God and that the Bible is the word of God. Mormons are also very observant in their religious practices with more than eight-in-ten praying daily. Mormons strongly support a strict interpretation of their faith and the preservation of traditional beliefs and practices.

Are these demographic differences actually due to the Mormon religion? How can we be confident these are not just population level differences that happen to correlate with religion? To better answer lets take a look at Jewish demographics.

Jewish Demographics

Unlike Mormons who are a young religion and can be looked at as a single group Judaism is one of the oldest religions and has splintered into many subgroups. There are many different branches of Judaism each with unique features. These branches can mostly be grouped into 5 major categories. From most conservative to most liberal these are Ultra-Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Secular Jews.

Orthodox Jews believe their sacred scriptures the Torah is the word of God and should be studied and followed. Their customs and behavior is guided by observance of halakhah (Jewish Law). Conservative Jews acknowledge that Jewish writings come from God, but believe that the Law should adapt, absorbing aspects of the predominant culture while remaining true to Judaism's values. Reform Judaism does not hold that the Torah was written by God. The movement accepts the critical theory of Biblical authorship: that the Bible was written by separate sources and redacted together. Reform Jews do not believe in observance of commandments as such, but they retain much of the values and ethics of Judaism. Secular Jews do not affiliate with any major religious group they may or may not believe in God. A more detailed description of these difference can be read here.

When people think of the Jews they often think of famous figures like Allen Greenspan or presidential candidate Bernie Sanders both secular Jews. Secular Jews are often liberal, democratic voters. Orthodox Jews on the other hand tend to be socially conservative, and are more likely to be republican voters.

The Jews as a group are incredibly smart. They consistently rank highest in the world on IQ studies significantly higher than even Asians who are their nearest competitors. If Charlton’s triad of IQ disadvantages is correct then the Jews should be particularly susceptible. Is this the case?

American Jewish Fertility by Religious Current
Religious SectAverage No. of Children per Woman
Ultra-Orthodox6.72
Modern Orthodox3.39
Conservative1.74
Reform1.36
Secular1.29

As Jews leave orthodoxy it appears their fertility plummets. The Ultra-Orthodox are a group who are similar to the Amish in that they have partially separated themselves from the outside world choosing to live in isolated communities. They have a fertility rate of 6.72 which is similar to Amish fertility rates . Modern Orthodox Jews strictly adhere to their faith but simultaneously advocate engaging with the outside world especially higher education. The Modern Orthodox fertility rate 3.39 is nearly identical to that of Mormons. The Modern Orthodox have a similar philosophy to that of Mormons in that they advocate engaging with the outside world as much as possible while maintaining strict adherence to their religious code. As Jews move away from their historic religious tradition their fertility plummets. Secular Jews have a shockingly low fertility of 1.29 among the lowest in the world. For the Jews it appears the detrimental effects of high IQ are very real and that traditional religion offers some protection.

Toxicity of the Modern World

In Brave New World, Aldous Huxley envisioned a future where the masses were rendered infertile and controlled with pleasure and drugs. Is that the world we live in now? Anyone over that age of 25 may not realize how far traditional courtship and dating has been undermined by modernity. The tinder generation is being conditioned to swipe right on their onscreen app and meet up later for random sexual gratification. This phenomena has been described by Vanity Fair as nothing less than a dating apocalypse.

In Colorado long acting implantable contraceptives which a render women infertile for up to 10 years and require a doctor’s visit to remove have been implanted in 26% of young women age 15-24 as of 2013.

In 2015 an advisory body to the US Department of Health and Human Services recommended that Medicaid examine how often doctors are using “most effective” or “moderately effective” contraception. Only contraception deemed “highly effective” or “moderately effective” (Long acting implantable or long acting injections) would be included in the proposed measurement. Doctor’s with a low percentage of young patients using such contraception would presumably be rated as giving lower quality care.

We appear to be living in a “Utopia” of declining fitness and capability. An age of existential exhaustion manifested by an ageing, hedonistic society characterized by declining marriage, and near zero children.

Sin is the Situation

Quote from: Bruce Charlton
Sin is the situation where how we feel is ultimate human reality, and how we feel is known to be contingent and means nothing.
Sin is to embrace this nothingness as reality, to propagandize that nothingness is reality, to denigrate anything which saves us from nothingness.
*
And that is the reason we need to be ‘saved’.
And this is the reason why we cannot save ourselves.
We need to be saved from nothingness, and from those who brainwash us into a belief in nothingness, and from ourselves who propagate that reality is nothingness.
*
Sin is to embrace nothingness

Modern society is a mechanism for inculcating bad habits, especially the habit of seeking instant pleasure, intoxications and distractions; a habit of regarding ourselves as passive recipients for ‘entertainment’. A devout life is not so much about a flash of understanding but is mostly a matter of using insights into truth in building-up good habits; and this can be influenced by our will. A devout life enables one to build these habits and most importantly successfully pass them on to our children.

Quote from:  Terryl and Fiona Givens
Whatever sense we make of this world, whatever value we place upon our lives and relationships, whatever meaning we ultimately give to our joys and agonies, must necessarily be a gesture of faith. Whether we consider the whole a product of impersonal cosmic forces, a malevolent deity, or a benevolent god, depends not on the evidence, but on what we choose, deliberately and consciously to conclude from that evidence… If we decide to leave the questions unanswered, that is a choice; if we waver in our answer that too is a choice: but whatever choice we make, we make it at our peril.

What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.

In the end you must make a choice:

Wallow in the degradation of modernity

Or

Celebrate purity of the human spirit

Your choice is one that echoes through time influencing not only your life but the lives of your children and grandchildren as well.
Choose Wisely


See Religion and Progress for more.



Edit: It is clear that a few posters were angered by the original title of this post. As the goal of this post is not to attack or denigrate but to inform and share knowledge I have selected a new and less inflammatory title.
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September 29, 2017, 02:29:12 AM
Last edit: September 29, 2017, 03:47:13 AM by CoinCube
 #1555


Oh, this is so interesting. In this thread you can refer to the info, and find the answer to your question. But in the Scientific proof that God exists? you can quote my post, and then ask a question that is answered right in my post that you just quoted, totally playing the game like the answer isn't there.

You are such a game player!

 Cheesy

What's interesting is how dishonest you are. Your starting point is assuming god exists and you try to prove his existence desperately although no real science man agrees with anything you say.

God ultimately is beyond science. Knowledge of the infinite lies at a deeper more fundamental level.

All knowledge traces back ultimately to apriori truth.

If you deny the infinite you  must choose different typically nihilistic apriori. These assumptions in turn warp and fundamentally alter ones relationship with the universe.

The only dishonesty I have seen is a refusal to follow logic to its rational conclusion. Many people who deny God seem to exhibit this dishonesty of self settling into a childlike refusal to think following delivery of some smug barb about fairytales or spaghetti monsters.

It is my opinion that rejection of God is ultimately not compatible with sustained existence in homo sapiens on a multigenerational timeline.

Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a person from the snares of death.

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September 29, 2017, 04:22:14 AM
Last edit: August 05, 2019, 05:14:34 AM by CoinCube
 #1556

Metaphysical Attitudes


https://albionawakening.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/metaphysical-attitudes.html?m=1
Quote from: Bruce Charlton

Metaphysics is the most important thing in the modern world. But for most modern people metaphysics is gibberish - even worse, metaphysics is boring and irrelevant gibberish...

The usual attitude in English society, as in The West generally, is that the ultimate explanation for everything is a matter of science - of physics, chemistry and biology. It is obvious to everybody that everything began with some kind of big bang as described by physics; with the formation of the stars, solar system, and earth; then chemistry kicked-in until biology emerged; and biology led to plants, animals, intelligence, consciousness then eventually Man - who then developed with the emergence of society, into each of us here and now...

On that basis, there isn't any purpose or meaning to life; and our strivings and relationships are consequences of undirected chance plus past evolutionary pressures. There isn't anything to be said about why we are here, or what we 'ought' to do. Things just are as they are; and no conclusions can be drawn about anything.

Hence the pervasive nihilism of modernity, and the consequent undercurrent of despair. Our dissatisfaction with the pointless futility of everything can be explained, but never gratified.

But, we need to be clear that the above scenario is not a discovery but an assumption. The physics, chemistry, biology explanation did not come from science; instead modern science came from that explanation. Modern science operates within the metaphysical assumption that only modern science is real - nothing else exists.

Science cannot discover any meaning or purpose - neither can science disprove the reality of meaning and purpose; because meaning and purpose are excluded from science by its founding assumptions.

For example, there is no point in trying to claim that random chance plus Natural Selection is insufficient to explain the full range of observed phenomena; because these are the only permissible explanations within modern biology. Anything not currently understood on the basis of randomness and selection is merely something for which the evidence is not yet available.  

Upon such foundations are constructed the entire structure of the modern world - in other words, the modern world in all its vast complexity has no foundations. None At All.

It is this Big Secret which is denied and defended by the vast apparatus of distractions and lies which form modern society and culture. The Big Secret is that there is nothing and no reason and no point to anything...

The most important first step in the modern world is to reveal modern metaphysical assumptions as being assumptions.

That might be easy, if it was acknowledged that there are metaphysical assumptions, but 150 years of philosophical discussion has concluded that the distinguishing feature of modern 'scientific' thought is that it has no metaphysical assumptions - but that it is empirical and purely evidence-based. Having metaphysics is regarded as obsolete religious obfuscation - modern Man is too hard-nosed to be 'fooled' by metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.

So modern opinion denies the validity of metaphysical discussion: modern opinion denies that it has any fundamental assumptions at all - it is merely practical, merely trying to 'make life better', just 'getting on with the job' instead of wasting time and confusing or manipulating people with airy-fairy nonsense about 'metaphysics'.

This is why the modern predicament has proved so difficult to solve. The problem is buried at the foundation, but the conventional wisdom is that there are no foundations.

If metaphysical assumptions were acknowledged as real and inevitable, then we would have a good chance of changing them. But since they are regarded as imaginary - then we seem to be stuck with modern metaphysics.

And modern metaphysics is killing us - but, more importantly, damning us.


The Big Decision about Life...
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-big-decision-about-life.html?m=1
Quote from: Bruce Charlton
...Is a metaphysical one - not a matter of 'evidence'. And that insight (metaphysics not evidence) is the first step.

The situation is that Life is a mixed-picture: the decision is whether Life is validated by its best moments or times; or destroyed by its worst.

As I said, evidence does not help - the question is not quantitative. This is a matter of primary assumption.

And the question is not answerable in isolation - Life can only be validated if Life has 'meaning'; and the nature of validation depends on the nature of that meaning.

On the other hand, if you have already accepted that life has no meaning - is merely determined, or random - then you have already made your Big Decision. (Whether implicitly or explicitly) your basic assumptions ensure that for you Life is defined by its worst aspects - indeed the single, most extreme worst-of-Life is the truth-of-Life (both for individuals, and en masse).

Nothing can be done for you - because any possible Good will be negated by One Bad Thing - even when that Bad is merely the evanescence of Good.

On the other hand; if you understand, and live-by, the conviction that the best of Life is the truth of life (despite that this cannot be continuous) - then you have indomitable strength, assurance, and hope.

See: The Limits of Science for more.

Astargath
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October 04, 2017, 09:00:32 AM
 #1557


Oh, this is so interesting. In this thread you can refer to the info, and find the answer to your question. But in the Scientific proof that God exists? you can quote my post, and then ask a question that is answered right in my post that you just quoted, totally playing the game like the answer isn't there.

You are such a game player!

 Cheesy

What's interesting is how dishonest you are. Your starting point is assuming god exists and you try to prove his existence desperately although no real science man agrees with anything you say.

God ultimately is beyond science. Knowledge of the infinite lies at a deeper more fundamental level.

All knowledge traces back ultimately to apriori truth.

If you deny the infinite you  must choose different typically nihilistic apriori. These assumptions in turn warp and fundamentally alter ones relationship with the universe.

The only dishonesty I have seen is a refusal to follow logic to its rational conclusion. Many people who deny God seem to exhibit this dishonesty of self settling into a childlike refusal to think following delivery of some smug barb about fairytales or spaghetti monsters.

It is my opinion that rejection of God is ultimately not compatible with sustained existence in homo sapiens on a multigenerational timeline.

Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning a person from the snares of death.

''God ultimately is beyond science.'' Yeah yeah I heard that many times, so is the other thousands of gods. What is the logic that leads to the conclusion that god is real? That same logic could lead to all kind of different gods not to mention to the other hundreds of possibilities (We live in a computer simulation, aliens from another dimension created this universe, this universe creates and destroys itself in a loop, some other force/process created the universe, etc etc)

There is no evidence for any god just like there is no evidence aliens did, quit the bullshit.
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October 04, 2017, 09:07:34 AM
 #1558

interesting study. I kinda agree on some points
Certain religions have some habbits that are followed on a frequent basis, and some of these habbits are more healthy than other
For example muslims don't drink alcohol, which reduces the chances of having your liver rekt and is therefore better for your health
different examples like these
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October 04, 2017, 06:11:48 PM
Last edit: October 04, 2017, 07:12:01 PM by CoinCube
 #1559


''God ultimately is beyond science.'' Yeah yeah I heard that many times, so is the other thousands of gods. What is the logic that leads to the conclusion that god is real? That same logic could lead to all kind of different gods not to mention to the other hundreds of possibilities (We live in a computer simulation, aliens from another dimension created this universe, this universe creates and destroys itself in a loop, some other force/process created the universe, etc etc)

There is no evidence for any god just like there is no evidence aliens did, quit the bullshit.

The fact that we are here having this conversation right now leads by logical necessity to a first cause that led to this moment.

What one believes about the nature of that first cause is an assumption or an act of faith. If you assume its all random chance without higher purpose then you have chosen your assumption and thus your religion. It is a belief system that shapes one's view of the universe and your place in it. It also rest ultimately on a "truth" that is not proven but chosen. Not all religions believe in God.

I have nothing against people who embrace this worldview. I would only point to multiple studies highlighting the harmful effects of this choice and ask you voluntary embrace a potentially toxic worldview when their are superior alternatives?

 

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October 04, 2017, 07:22:48 PM
 #1560

islam is best relgion in the world ,the true Islam not the one you see on the info
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