Health and Religion

[BADecker]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute. 

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

[CoinCube]

I can't read the last link and by the way ''Individuals living in devout countries were more likely to help strangers even if they themselves were not religious.'' Basically saying that even though they are atheists they only helped because they live in devout countries? Most countries are extremely religious anyways, it's quite hard to find the few that aren't so this is a flawed argument.

Unfortunately it looks like all copies of that third article are behind paywalls. Let's mark it as disputed and move on.

In my opinion the correct way to approach a question like this not to ask does ___ make people good or lack of ___ make people bad but instead to ask a more basic question.

Are humans at evil?

It's pretty clear that we are quite evil in general. Looking at the history of the last hundred years brings this into crystallin focus. We are not completely evil we do have some redeeming qualities but probably not nearly as many as we fool ourselves into believing.

Once we acknowledge this disheartening truth it behooves us to pursue the goal of mitigating the deficiency.

[Astargath]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute. 

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

[BADecker]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute. 

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

[Astargath]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute. 

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

It doesn't work, it's proven, get over it.

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

[CoinCube]

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

Indeed what exactly is the meaning of this very famous passage?

Since I referenced Peterson upthread I will share his interpretation which is in part 7 of his biblical series. I have linked directly to the relevant section below, however, it's a deep topic so it's still about 18 minutes from the start of the link to a detailed analysis of your passage above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gFjB9FTN58&t=56m54s

If you can spare the 18 minutes I highly recommend watching it.

[BADecker]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute.  

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

It doesn't work, it's proven, get over it.

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

The Youtube video that Coincube suggests in the above post is very relevant... at least where the link starts the video.

1. Faith in God is what causes God to allow things to be activated for people. All people have a basic faith in God to some extent, just to live, even though they don't realize it. But when you try to test God by suggesting that something like the passage you quoted doesn't work for you, you are actually using your faith in God against the thing that you are formally asking. This means that you are getting the answer you asked for... precisely nothing.

2. Many people receive what they ask for. Why? They ask in simple and honest faith, not trying to test God, but truly asking.

3. You receive many things you ask for, even though you do not ask for them by or through some words. For example. When you get a cup of coffee, or a plate of food, you are asking for a multitude of things that you are given. You are asking that your muscles work to take you to the spot where the coffee or food is located. You are asking that the cup or plate that you see there, is there for you. You are asking that the food will be healthy or pleasurable for you. By your actions you are asking for many things regarding this coffee or food.

How are you asking? By not knowing for a fact that stuff will work for you this time. After all, only if you never made a mistake in your life... only if there was never something that happened to you that you weren't expecting... only you never had a surprise in your life... only then might you be able to predict with absolute certainty that the things that you were doing would result in the response you were looking for.

Since God controls all things through cause and effect (and, really, a host of other controls, as well), He has given you the answer to your request for coffee or food, long before you asked for them by your actions, and even in the face of your lack of direct God-faith.

"Ask and it will be given to you..." is working for you constantly, and for everyone else, as well. After all, when you doubt God, the thing you are asking for is failure in the "Ask and it will be given to you... ." And that is what God gives you some of the time... failure.

It's all a big balance that God works for you, in precise and perfect detail. God balances all of your thinking requests, with all of your action requests, and gives you the things that you request. After all, you are not generally requesting bad things to happen to yourself. So, they don't... at least not until the "bad thing" request overcomes the good that you are requesting for yourself.

Wake up and see, before it is too late for you, that you are going to request yourself right out of Eternal life if you keep on fighting God like you are doing.

[Astargath]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute.  

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

It doesn't work, it's proven, get over it.

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

The Youtube video that Coincube suggests in the above post is very relevant... at least where the link starts the video.

1. Faith in God is what causes God to allow things to be activated for people. All people have a basic faith in God to some extent, just to live, even though they don't realize it. But when you try to test God by suggesting that something like the passage you quoted doesn't work for you, you are actually using your faith in God against the thing that you are formally asking. This means that you are getting the answer you asked for... precisely nothing.

2. Many people receive what they ask for. Why? They ask in simple and honest faith, not trying to test God, but truly asking.

3. You receive many things you ask for, even though you do not ask for them by or through some words. For example. When you get a cup of coffee, or a plate of food, you are asking for a multitude of things that you are given. You are asking that your muscles work to take you to the spot where the coffee or food is located. You are asking that the cup or plate that you see there, is there for you. You are asking that the food will be healthy or pleasurable for you. By your actions you are asking for many things regarding this coffee or food.

How are you asking? By not knowing for a fact that stuff will work for you this time. After all, only if you never made a mistake in your life... only if there was never something that happened to you that you weren't expecting... only you never had a surprise in your life... only then might you be able to predict with absolute certainty that the things that you were doing would result in the response you were looking for.

Since God controls all things through cause and effect (and, really, a host of other controls, as well), He has given you the answer to your request for coffee or food, long before you asked for them by your actions, and even in the face of your lack of direct God-faith.

"Ask and it will be given to you..." is working for you constantly, and for everyone else, as well. After all, when you doubt God, the thing you are asking for is failure in the "Ask and it will be given to you... ." And that is what God gives you some of the time... failure.

It's all a big balance that God works for you, in precise and perfect detail. God balances all of your thinking requests, with all of your action requests, and gives you the things that you request. After all, you are not generally requesting bad things to happen to yourself. So, they don't... at least not until the "bad thing" request overcomes the good that you are requesting for yourself.

Wake up and see, before it is too late for you, that you are going to request yourself right out of Eternal life if you keep on fighting God like you are doing.

I believed in god 100% when I was a kid, when I grew older I started to have my doubts so I asked him, honestly, for a little proof of his existence, guess what, he didn't send me anything. God is fictional. As an example of the absurdity of heaven:

I'm walking with my girlfriend and a robber tries to rob us and shoots her. I was a believer but she wasn't.

50 years later, the robber and I both die, the robber a few years before dying accepts jesus christ and repents his sins.
We are now both in heaven and I'm supposed to be happy knowing that not only my girlfriend is going to be eternally tortured but also that I'm going to spend all eternity living with the man who actually killed her.
Furthermore if she lived maybe she would have accepted jesus christ just like the robber did yet she didn't have the chance to do so.

[BADecker]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute.  

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

It doesn't work, it's proven, get over it.

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

The Youtube video that Coincube suggests in the above post is very relevant... at least where the link starts the video.

1. Faith in God is what causes God to allow things to be activated for people. All people have a basic faith in God to some extent, just to live, even though they don't realize it. But when you try to test God by suggesting that something like the passage you quoted doesn't work for you, you are actually using your faith in God against the thing that you are formally asking. This means that you are getting the answer you asked for... precisely nothing.

2. Many people receive what they ask for. Why? They ask in simple and honest faith, not trying to test God, but truly asking.

3. You receive many things you ask for, even though you do not ask for them by or through some words. For example. When you get a cup of coffee, or a plate of food, you are asking for a multitude of things that you are given. You are asking that your muscles work to take you to the spot where the coffee or food is located. You are asking that the cup or plate that you see there, is there for you. You are asking that the food will be healthy or pleasurable for you. By your actions you are asking for many things regarding this coffee or food.

How are you asking? By not knowing for a fact that stuff will work for you this time. After all, only if you never made a mistake in your life... only if there was never something that happened to you that you weren't expecting... only you never had a surprise in your life... only then might you be able to predict with absolute certainty that the things that you were doing would result in the response you were looking for.

Since God controls all things through cause and effect (and, really, a host of other controls, as well), He has given you the answer to your request for coffee or food, long before you asked for them by your actions, and even in the face of your lack of direct God-faith.

"Ask and it will be given to you..." is working for you constantly, and for everyone else, as well. After all, when you doubt God, the thing you are asking for is failure in the "Ask and it will be given to you... ." And that is what God gives you some of the time... failure.

It's all a big balance that God works for you, in precise and perfect detail. God balances all of your thinking requests, with all of your action requests, and gives you the things that you request. After all, you are not generally requesting bad things to happen to yourself. So, they don't... at least not until the "bad thing" request overcomes the good that you are requesting for yourself.

Wake up and see, before it is too late for you, that you are going to request yourself right out of Eternal life if you keep on fighting God like you are doing.

I believed in god 100% when I was a kid, when I grew older I started to have my doubts so I asked him, honestly, for a little proof of his existence, guess what, he didn't send me anything. God is fictional. As an example of the absurdity of heaven:

I'm walking with my girlfriend and a robber tries to rob us and shoots her. I was a believer but she wasn't.

50 years later, the robber and I both die, the robber a few years before dying accepts jesus christ and repents his sins.
We are now both in heaven and I'm supposed to be happy knowing that not only my girlfriend is going to be eternally tortured but also that I'm going to spend all eternity living with the man who actually killed her.
Furthermore if she lived maybe she would have accepted jesus christ just like the robber did yet she didn't have the chance to do so.

There are at least 2 places in the Bible (one in Isaiah) that tell us that in the next life we will never remember any of this. It will never come to mind.

So, it is not that you don't believe in God. Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.

Don't throw away eternity for yourself. Having the pleasure of some deep anger against God in this life (though I don't see where there is pleasure in anger), is not worth losing your salvation for eternity.

Rather, humble yourself, and ask God to comfort you and bring peace to your mind and soul.

[robbietobby]

Although there were no correlation to this, I think this implied wrong statistical analysis on what is being tabulated. Religion and IQ has no significant relationship. If you can see human can be intelligent in most different way.

[Astargath]

Religion is a hoax, not health. Health is serious, yes i certainly believe there is a certainty of degree where the gov. may be lying about certain things. By religions is the biggest hoax ever. You really gonna believe a man by the name of jesus who lived 400 years ago and dedicate your money and sundays to him? Seems like Jesus is a dead pimp and you guys who believe in religions are the prostitute.  

Religion absolutely is NOT a hoax. Rather, it is the thing by which everybody lives. Check the definition from Dictionary.com at http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t, particularly item 6: "something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice."

Some formal religions are hoaxes. But your informal religion is your way of life.

Yet numerous studies and logic have proven that prayer, for example, doesn't work.

Prayer, all by itself, doesn't do much of anything. If it has positive thinking involved, the positive thinking might do something... like placebo action.

If the prayer is a prayer of faith, prayed to God, then God works. It isn't really the prayer working. Any studies that suggest that prayer doesn't work are looking at the wrong thing. Prayer is about relationship with God. Prayer as a mechanical thing won't work except if it has positive thinking attached to it. And even then it is not as powerful as faith prayer, prayed to God.

It doesn't work, it's proven, get over it.

''Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him''

According to these verses, prayer is an opportunity to approach the greatest father of all time and openly express our needs and desires and directly ask for help yet prayer doesn't work, no one has seen a dead person revive or a amputee grow back an arm.

The Youtube video that Coincube suggests in the above post is very relevant... at least where the link starts the video.

1. Faith in God is what causes God to allow things to be activated for people. All people have a basic faith in God to some extent, just to live, even though they don't realize it. But when you try to test God by suggesting that something like the passage you quoted doesn't work for you, you are actually using your faith in God against the thing that you are formally asking. This means that you are getting the answer you asked for... precisely nothing.

2. Many people receive what they ask for. Why? They ask in simple and honest faith, not trying to test God, but truly asking.

3. You receive many things you ask for, even though you do not ask for them by or through some words. For example. When you get a cup of coffee, or a plate of food, you are asking for a multitude of things that you are given. You are asking that your muscles work to take you to the spot where the coffee or food is located. You are asking that the cup or plate that you see there, is there for you. You are asking that the food will be healthy or pleasurable for you. By your actions you are asking for many things regarding this coffee or food.

How are you asking? By not knowing for a fact that stuff will work for you this time. After all, only if you never made a mistake in your life... only if there was never something that happened to you that you weren't expecting... only you never had a surprise in your life... only then might you be able to predict with absolute certainty that the things that you were doing would result in the response you were looking for.

Since God controls all things through cause and effect (and, really, a host of other controls, as well), He has given you the answer to your request for coffee or food, long before you asked for them by your actions, and even in the face of your lack of direct God-faith.

"Ask and it will be given to you..." is working for you constantly, and for everyone else, as well. After all, when you doubt God, the thing you are asking for is failure in the "Ask and it will be given to you... ." And that is what God gives you some of the time... failure.

It's all a big balance that God works for you, in precise and perfect detail. God balances all of your thinking requests, with all of your action requests, and gives you the things that you request. After all, you are not generally requesting bad things to happen to yourself. So, they don't... at least not until the "bad thing" request overcomes the good that you are requesting for yourself.

Wake up and see, before it is too late for you, that you are going to request yourself right out of Eternal life if you keep on fighting God like you are doing.

I believed in god 100% when I was a kid, when I grew older I started to have my doubts so I asked him, honestly, for a little proof of his existence, guess what, he didn't send me anything. God is fictional. As an example of the absurdity of heaven:

I'm walking with my girlfriend and a robber tries to rob us and shoots her. I was a believer but she wasn't.

50 years later, the robber and I both die, the robber a few years before dying accepts jesus christ and repents his sins.
We are now both in heaven and I'm supposed to be happy knowing that not only my girlfriend is going to be eternally tortured but also that I'm going to spend all eternity living with the man who actually killed her.
Furthermore if she lived maybe she would have accepted jesus christ just like the robber did yet she didn't have the chance to do so.

There are at least 2 places in the Bible (one in Isaiah) that tell us that in the next life we will never remember any of this. It will never come to mind.

So, it is not that you don't believe in God. Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.

Don't throw away eternity for yourself. Having the pleasure of some deep anger against God in this life (though I don't see where there is pleasure in anger), is not worth losing your salvation for eternity.

Rather, humble yourself, and ask God to comfort you and bring peace to your mind and soul.

''Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.'' Actually as you can clearly see from my example above, I'm not angry or happy, it simply makes no sense and it's not fair.

[CoinCube]

I believed in god 100% when I was a kid, when I grew older I started to have my doubts so I asked him, honestly, for a little proof of his existence, guess what, he didn't send me anything. God is fictional. As an example of the absurdity of heaven:

I'm walking with my girlfriend and a robber tries to rob us and shoots her. I was a believer but she wasn't.

50 years later, the robber and I both die, the robber a few years before dying accepts jesus christ and repents his sins.
We are now both in heaven and I'm supposed to be happy knowing that not only my girlfriend is going to be eternally tortured but also that I'm going to spend all eternity living with the man who actually killed her.
Furthermore if she lived maybe she would have accepted jesus christ just like the robber did yet she didn't have the chance to do so.

Humans in our current state are utterly unfit for eternal life.

If you have Netflix I recommend the dark and disturbing series Altered Carbon. It explores what humanity would do if we discovered a technology that allowed us to upload ourselves into new bodies and use this technology to live forever. The series set some 300 years in the future.

What would we do with eternal life? Simple we would turn the earth into a living hell. The series is so dark because it so accurately describes human nature.

Both the Catholics and the Jews believe in purgatory. This is a place where the evil in us that makes us unfit to enter heaven is purified aka burned away. If there is a heaven the need for such a place follows logically from the utter darkness in human nature.

What does it mean to "purify" an evil that is inherent to our very nature. Well it means that a big part of what we are the darkness has to be burned away and die. If that is 95% because you like to shoot and murder people then I imagine such a purification would be rather unpleasant. I certainly would not want to be the guy who has to have 95% of who he is consumed by a burning purification of truth so that a deeply remorseful 5% suitable for eternal life and can continue.

Can someone who died in their youth or did not have a chance to fully explore the devine be saved? To the degree they lived their life in alignment with truth and that anyone can be saved they certainly could be. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly say that unbelievers cannot be saved after death. Clark Pinnock a prominent Christian theologian is a compelling author and defended this line of reasoning.

https://www.amazon.com/Wideness-Gods-Mercy-Finality-Religions/dp/0310535913

The take away message is that we should align ourselves with truth and the transcendent to the core of our being. To the degree we succeed we transform ourself into something suitable for an afterlife and prevent the manifestation of hell on earth.

[Astargath]

I believed in god 100% when I was a kid, when I grew older I started to have my doubts so I asked him, honestly, for a little proof of his existence, guess what, he didn't send me anything. God is fictional. As an example of the absurdity of heaven:

I'm walking with my girlfriend and a robber tries to rob us and shoots her. I was a believer but she wasn't.

50 years later, the robber and I both die, the robber a few years before dying accepts jesus christ and repents his sins.
We are now both in heaven and I'm supposed to be happy knowing that not only my girlfriend is going to be eternally tortured but also that I'm going to spend all eternity living with the man who actually killed her.
Furthermore if she lived maybe she would have accepted jesus christ just like the robber did yet she didn't have the chance to do so.

Humans in our current state are utterly unfit for eternal life.

If you have Netflix I recommend the dark and disturbing series Altered Carbon. It explores what humanity would do if we discovered a technology that allowed us to upload ourselves into new bodies and use this technology to live forever. The series set some 300 years in the future.

What would we do with eternal life? Simple we would turn the earth into a living hell. The series is so dark because it so accurately describes human nature.

Both the Catholics and the Jews believe in purgatory. This is a place where the evil in us that makes us unfit to enter heaven is purified aka burned away. If there is a heaven the need for such a place follows logically from the utter darkness in human nature.

What does it mean to "purify" an evil that is inherent to our very nature. Well it means that a big part of what we are the darkness has to be burned away and die. If that is 95% because you like to shoot and murder people then I imagine such a purification would be rather unpleasant. I certainly would not want to be the guy who has to have 95% of who he is consumed by a burning purification of truth so that a deeply remorseful 5% suitable for eternal life and can continue.

Can someone who died in their youth or did not have a chance to fully explore the devine be saved? To the degree they lived their life in alignment with truth and that anyone can be saved they certainly could be. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly say that unbelievers cannot be saved after death. Clark Pinnock a prominent Christian theologian is a compelling author and defended this line of reasoning.

https://www.amazon.com/Wideness-Gods-Mercy-Finality-Religions/dp/0310535913

The take away message is that we should align ourselves with truth and the transcendent to the core of our being. To the degree we succeed we transform ourself into something suitable for an afterlife and prevent the manifestation of hell on earth.

If unbelievers can be saved after death and people can be changed into ''pure'' souls then there is absolutely no need for any of this, everything that we are experiencing now is absolutely useless.

[CoinCube]

If unbelievers can be saved after death and people can be changed into ''pure'' souls then there is absolutely no need for any of this, everything that we are experiencing now is absolutely useless.

The necessity to burn away the evil in you in an afterlife is not so attractive if down to the core you are evil. In extreme situations there might not be anything left once the process was completed.

What you are experiencing now is the forging of a crucible that for better or for worse will be subjected to the fires and tribulations of the future.

If you do not create anything worth saving in the present what possibly could there be to save in the future?

My own opinion is that the Seventh-day Adventist view on hell is more logical then other interpretations.

See: Annihilationism

[BADecker]

If unbelievers can be saved after death and people can be changed into ''pure'' souls then there is absolutely no need for any of this, everything that we are experiencing now is absolutely useless.

Wow! This is about as close to seeing the truth as you have gotten. Solomon, possibly the wisest person of all time, said something very similar to this in his book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible.



Note that, the reason we need death for purification, is that we are very strong willed. You know how strong willed you are, that you won't accept all kinds of evidence for the existence of God and eternal life. But even though I accept these things, my will is so strong that I won't accept being purified in other ways.

We are like computer programs. We can't be changed while we are running. If the programmer finds a bug in the program, he essentially has to shut the program down before he can fix the bug. Same with us.

But that is as far as the computer example is similar to us. We are much greater than a computer program. Even when our life program is shut down in death, some of us will not allow ourselves to be reprogrammed even after death. That is the reason for Heaven and Hell.

[BADecker]

There are at least 2 places in the Bible (one in Isaiah) that tell us that in the next life we will never remember any of this. It will never come to mind.

So, it is not that you don't believe in God. Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.

Don't throw away eternity for yourself. Having the pleasure of some deep anger against God in this life (though I don't see where there is pleasure in anger), is not worth losing your salvation for eternity.

Rather, humble yourself, and ask God to comfort you and bring peace to your mind and soul.

''Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.'' Actually as you can clearly see from my example above, I'm not angry or happy, it simply makes no sense and it's not fair.

What makes it unfair is the unfairness of mankind toward God. God gave His all in Jesus death on the cross. He did it to save mankind. But here you are, not only accepting the imperfection of being sinful in the first place, but extending your imperfection to the rejecting of the great sacrifice Jesus did to save you. You ain't fair. Certainly not to God.

[Astargath]

There are at least 2 places in the Bible (one in Isaiah) that tell us that in the next life we will never remember any of this. It will never come to mind.

So, it is not that you don't believe in God. Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.

Don't throw away eternity for yourself. Having the pleasure of some deep anger against God in this life (though I don't see where there is pleasure in anger), is not worth losing your salvation for eternity.

Rather, humble yourself, and ask God to comfort you and bring peace to your mind and soul.

''Rather, it is that you are angry with Him for not judging things according to the way you think.'' Actually as you can clearly see from my example above, I'm not angry or happy, it simply makes no sense and it's not fair.

What makes it unfair is the unfairness of mankind toward God. God gave His all in Jesus death on the cross. He did it to save mankind. But here you are, not only accepting the imperfection of being sinful in the first place, but extending your imperfection to the rejecting of the great sacrifice Jesus did to save you. You ain't fair. Certainly not to God.

God sacrificed himself to himself to forgive us. Another nonsense from the bible right there. It makes absolutely no sense and we are not even saved, we are still here, aren't we? Why did an omniscient and all powerful god need to sacrifice his ''son'' to forgive humanity? Why not just forgive us? What is there to forgive anyways, he already knew everything that would happen.

[DimensionsOfHell]

Are you seriously discussing this?What is just utter nonsense.Religion for me very distant field of course but I never thought she can have any relationship with the level of human intelligence

[afroman1131]

So much information and discussion is so vivid and interesting.Religion has always been a subject of controversy and controversy,and even more so than that of science.Very interesting arguments in my opinion.

[aircrusan]

So much information and discussion is so vivid and interesting.Religion has always been a subject of controversy and controversy,and even more so than that of science.Very interesting arguments in my opinion.

I was quite surprised when I came across this topic for discussion.Religion is a really controversial especially when it is as it fits in with science, I totally agree with you.It will be interesting to read the opinions of other users