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Author Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum  (Read 68171 times)
malevolent
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June 17, 2012, 09:27:32 PM
 #301

Anyone believes this is true???

I don't think it's a matter of IF BFL can produce an ASIC. It's a matter of WHEN, and in what quantities.

No, I mean if anyone believes the price:performance ratio is true. To achieve that kind of performance with this price I see two possibilites:

a) they invented something noone else has (very little probability, but they will be rich if it's true)
b) they got a really good deal, be it legal or illegal
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June 17, 2012, 09:34:23 PM
 #302

As I posted else where, the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This means that people who have singles already could spend months more waiting. I very much doubt that bfl would put previous purchasers In front of new money into the company.

Phil

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June 17, 2012, 09:45:25 PM
 #303

As I posted else where, the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This means that people who have singles already could spend months more waiting. I very much doubt that bfl would put previous purchasers In front of new money into the company.

Phil
And they could send these singles coming back to people still waiting for them today, total win for BFL. The question is : did they plan this from the beginning ?

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June 17, 2012, 09:48:22 PM
 #304

Quote
when do you all think they'll be accepting pre orders?

Just send them your hard earned BTC, they'll accept them for shure Smiley

That is not true.  I'm begging them to take my BTC now and they won't do it.

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? :/

Probably because they won't be ready to manufacture these units for a *really* long time.

I meant, 'Why would you offer them your BTC at this point any way?' ...

cause thats what people do when purchasing a single Tongue

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June 17, 2012, 09:56:10 PM
 #305

As I posted else where, the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This means that people who have singles already could spend months more waiting. I very much doubt that bfl would put previous purchasers In front of new money into the company.

Phil
And they could send these singles coming back to people still waiting for them today, total win for BFL. The question is : did they plan this from the beginning ?

That did not even come into my mind, but yes, sell replacements on for the purchases made. Damn, evil circle of money

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June 17, 2012, 10:13:24 PM
 #306

Sub

*EDIT*

I have a question. From what I could understand, ASIC, once printed, can't be changed and if a ASIC is made for the SHA256 algorithm, it can't be used for anything else, you need to make another ASIC. Is that correct?
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June 17, 2012, 11:01:47 PM
 #307

Sub

*EDIT*

I have a question. From what I could understand, ASIC, once printed, can't be changed and if a ASIC is made for the SHA256 algorithm, it can't be used for anything else, you need to make another ASIC. Is that correct?

That is correct. The SHA-256 ASIC device does not necessarily have to be used for Bitcoin mining, though; it could be used for password cracking.

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June 17, 2012, 11:11:20 PM
 #308

Quote
when do you all think they'll be accepting pre orders?

Just send them your hard earned BTC, they'll accept them for shure Smiley

That is not true.  I'm begging them to take my BTC now and they won't do it.

ha ha

i'm just hoping competitors have a lot more time.

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June 18, 2012, 02:02:14 AM
 #309

If the hashing algorithm were to change, what would happen, would the blockchain be forked from that moment on? Or will the miners using the new algorithm generate orphans until more than half the hashing power has updated?

Regarding the update - I don't think it's a question of "if", but a question of "when". Wikipedia says"Currently, the best public attacks break 41 of the 64 rounds of SHA-256 or 46 of the 80 rounds of SHA-512". I think it's pretty clear - as long as Bitcoin grows it will become a more and more attractive target.

This means that EVERY ASIC unit produced for mining will be rendered worthless. Personally, I plan to sink money in ASICs at a very slow and controlled pace - one or two cheap units at a time. If shit hits the fan at least I have only a few small losses.
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June 18, 2012, 03:13:32 AM
 #310

If the hashing algorithm were to change, what would happen, would the blockchain be forked from that moment on? Or will the miners using the new algorithm generate orphans until more than half the hashing power has updated?
...
Unlike the debacle back in April, what would happen is a future time/block would be decided to implement the changes.

Up to that point everyone is on the same chain.

At that port it forks, and everyone who hasn't updated will be on one fork while everyone who has updated will be on the other fork.

What actually happens next ... well that depends on the % of who decides what.

I guess those with asics and the security problem may stay on their risk fork and everyone else will be on the new fork.
Though if asics are most of the network by then and they want to keep the security risk, I guess BTC stays a security risk - bye bye BTC Smiley

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June 18, 2012, 03:56:55 AM
 #311

At that port it forks, and everyone who hasn't updated will be on one fork while everyone who has updated will be on the other fork.

What actually happens next ... well that depends on the % of who decides what.

I guess those with asics and the security problem may stay on their risk fork and everyone else will be on the new fork.
Though if asics are most of the network by then and they want to keep the security risk, I guess BTC stays a security risk - bye bye BTC Smiley

If a fork actually occur, I think many people will decide to follow the chain that the leading exchanges (MtGox, etc) will support.
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June 18, 2012, 05:13:13 AM
 #312

At that port it forks, and everyone who hasn't updated will be on one fork while everyone who has updated will be on the other fork.

What actually happens next ... well that depends on the % of who decides what.

I guess those with asics and the security problem may stay on their risk fork and everyone else will be on the new fork.
Though if asics are most of the network by then and they want to keep the security risk, I guess BTC stays a security risk - bye bye BTC Smiley

If a fork actually occur, I think many people will decide to follow the chain that the leading exchanges (MtGox, etc) will support.

No, both the users and the exchanges will follow the chain that the leading pools and solo miners will support - the other one will be too vulnerable to a 51% attack, regardless of the algorithm.

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June 18, 2012, 11:20:19 AM
 #313

As I posted else where, the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This means that people who have singles already could spend months more waiting. I very much doubt that bfl would put previous purchasers In front of new money into the company.

Phil
And they could send these singles coming back to people still waiting for them today, total win for BFL. The question is : did they plan this from the beginning ?
Is this a joke? ASICs exists for what, 30? 40? years. Of course if everyone is using only GPU and FPGA, someone WILL make an ASIC. It doesn't take a genius to guess that. "Planning that"? Welcome in the computing world, it's 50+ years old, making a specific hardware wich is faster than generic things like fpga or gpu is nothing new lol
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June 18, 2012, 11:33:09 AM
 #314

As I posted else where, the trade in program has not been announced. What if it is a case of send back your singles, and you are now in the queue, along with anyone one else who has purchased. This means that you are back in the position of Wang x months for the new hardware without any old / current hardware mining.

This means that people who have singles already could spend months more waiting. I very much doubt that bfl would put previous purchasers In front of new money into the company.

Phil
And they could send these singles coming back to people still waiting for them today, total win for BFL. The question is : did they plan this from the beginning ?
Is this a joke? ASICs exists for what, 30? 40? years. Of course if everyone is using only GPU and FPGA, someone WILL make an ASIC. It doesn't take a genius to guess that. "Planning that"? Welcome in the computing world, it's 50+ years old, making a specific hardware wich is faster than generic things like fpga or gpu is nothing new lol
... and everyone owns a ferrari coz they've been making street cars for 65 years ...

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June 18, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
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Oh boy, I'm just beginning to truly realize what a mess an algorithm change will be...

Even assuming a best case scenario - people don't have TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in ASICs to pay off yet - bitstreams and miners need to be changed and it will take MONTHS, it's going to be slow, the new fork (with the better algorithm) will generate mostly worthless coins for the moment (since very few are involved in it) so people will insist on staying on the old fork, with the vulnerability, arguments will arise not to mention the severe confidence hit Bitcoin will take. A lot of people will dump their coins when they hear Bitcoin is vulnerable to the very core and their money's security depends on using a fork that very few miners support. Not to mention that every merchant and service provider using Bitcoin will have to change their entire infrastructure... Holy shit, it's a nightmare. And that's the BEST case scenario...

The WORST case scenario is that ASICs have a good chunk of the hashing power. In that case that entire chunk is there to stay. Since ASICs can't be updated and the miners have lots of money invested in them, they would lose all of their investments if they would support the new fork. So they won't support it. Therefore the new fork will be reserved to a few percent of the hashing power and the old fork will carry on with the vulnerability. So the change would come at a dead slow pace and it could be enough to make Bitcoin dead in the water.

Either way, a hashing algorithm change is extremely likely to be disastrous for Bitcoin. The entire infrastructure would need updating, specialized hardware would need to be thrown out rendering tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars lost. The dead slow updating and people insisting on keeping a vulnerable fork could be the final nail in the coffin.

Now that I managed to scare myself shitless regarding the future, can somebody tell me I'm wrong and how can all this be easily mitigated?

Maybe starting the updating procedure a year or so in advance, before any vulnerability is discovered, giving time to everyone to update slowly and be prepared. The new fork could start as a test net of sorts and be reset when it's decided to start the fork proper.
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June 18, 2012, 11:44:56 AM
 #316

There is competing projects such as Vladamir's ASIC mining company and the open ASIC project. Maybe they come out first Smiley

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June 18, 2012, 03:48:15 PM
 #317

There is competing projects such as Vladamir's ASIC mining company and the open ASIC project. Maybe they come out first Smiley

Why exactly would that be better than BFL as long as BFL is for real (so far they have been).

Seems to me that ASIC is ASIC and will produce the same result no matter who does it and SOMEONE will.

If it was Vladamir or open ASIC project would it be the same inflammatory/derogatory thread I see here?

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June 18, 2012, 03:52:01 PM
 #318

some thoughts:
ASICs will not be publicly available before summer of 2013.
GPUs and FPGAs are more versatile to protocol or algorithm changes.
If btc goes down other currencies will come up, cryptocurrency economy will not go away! (God bless internet!)
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June 18, 2012, 03:52:05 PM
 #319

Posted in another thread.
Quote
Timeline will be available as soon as we start taking preorders. And I must say that it will come out at least 3 months earlier
than what most people have estimated. Hope that helps.


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

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June 18, 2012, 03:59:46 PM
 #320

If it was Vladamir or open ASIC project would it be the same inflammatory/derogatory thread I see here?

The Vlad thread was a bit of a shit show.  The open source one has mostly gone unnoticed.
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