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Author Topic: Whitelist Requests (Want out of here?)  (Read 426871 times)
Balthazar
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June 13, 2011, 09:42:06 PM
 #101

Add me in the whitelist, please. I'm not a spammer.

P.S. Such a registration system is ridiculous. Why not complicate the captcha, or not to use pre-moderation of messages from new users? %)

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Maged
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June 13, 2011, 09:55:48 PM
 #102

Add me in the whitelist, please. I'm not a spammer.

P.S. Such a registration system is ridiculous. Why not complicate the captcha, or not to use pre-moderation of messages from new users? %)
For the thousandth time, this has nothing to do with spam. It's because the regular members were tired of seeing the same threads every single day. For their sake and yours, we made this forum.

ezl
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June 13, 2011, 10:02:55 PM
 #103

I want out of here.  I am working on a simulated trading exchange and am trying to get a handle on what the ideal order entry and margining behavior is.

This is the post I want to post:


Current standard: Mt Gox, then an extension to margin systems

Case 1:
Bitcoins trading $20 USD.
Sarah has 100 USD and 3 BTC in her account.

Sarah submits an offer to sell 2 BTC at 22.00. What should happen if Sarah tries submits a second offer to sell 2 BTC at 22.00?

On MtGox, her orderbook will be:
offer 2 @ 22.00 (Active)
offer 1 @ 23.00 (Active)
offer 1 @ 23.00 (Insufficient funds)

So far so good. 

Now lets extend this example.

Case 2 (extends Case 1):
Now, Sarah submits an offer to sell 1.5 BTC at 21.  What happens? The resulting orderbook:
offer 1.5 @ 21.00 (Active)
offer 1.5 @ 22.00 (Active)
offer 0.5 @ 22.00 (Insufficient funds)
offer 2.0 @ 23.00 (Insufficient funds)

What's good about this?
This seems to make intuitive sense.  The engine allows you to submit any amount of bids/offers, independent of your account value.  The only order that get inserted into the public order book (and thus have any possibility of getting executed) are those that your current account would be able to support (i.e. the total number of bitcoins you have, assuming you get filled on orders in price priority).

I _like_ this behavior, but I'm not sure its "right".

Whats possibly questionable about this?

I'm not sure how this is implemented on the backend, would like to hear from anyone who knows more. Please correct me if I'm incorrect about the behavior.

  • 1. The way I'm thinking about it, it can lead to situations where Sarah might believe she will sell 4 BTC if the price rises to 23.  If I put in consecutive orders to sell a total of 5.5 BTC when I only have 3 BTC, it doesn't reject the orders.  Sarah is confused about the total quantity she can get filled on.  Obviously she can just look to see how much of the order is exposed on the Mt Gox order dashboard, but that can be cumbersome (Read on before you write this off as "solved by not being lazy").
  • 2. Lets keep the 2nd example above where Sarah has 0.5BTC offered @ 22.00USD and 2.00BTC offered @ 23.00USD. Now she deposits 10 BTC.  Is the balance of her order now exposed?  What if in the interim, BTC has rallied to $30USD?  Does her 22 offer get exposed (i.e. sell at market?).  I have a feeling some users would be upset if a dormant order went market due to a new deposit.  Does anyone know how this behaves on MtGox?
  • 3. The real reason why #1 is questionable is in a case where its not so simple.  Say her limit isn't only selling the total number of BTC she owns, but she can be short BTC in a margin account that is determined by her net liquidation value.  This net liquidation value is constantly in flux, so the amount of BTC she can sell varies with the market.  At any given time, she actually does not know how much of her sell order she can get filled on.
  • 4. Similarly, #2 can get screwy in situations where the exposed percentage of the order changes with Net Liq.  She could be arbitrarily going market on BTC orders as her Net Liq rises (say, as a result of some other options position she has).

IMO, #3 and #4 are unambiguously undesirable behavior.  However, they're not exposed as issues unless 1. there are other assets affecting the portfolio value, 2. margin is allowed.

How to solve this? I.e. what _is_ the desired behavior?

Lets imagine I have a portfolio that contains BTC, USD, and {some other stuff that can change rapidly, and with very little correlation to BTC/USD * }

Now, I have sufficient Net Liq to allow me to buy 50 BTC, so I put in an order to buy 50 BTC, slightly below the market.  As the market goes down, my Net Liq goes down and I can now only support buying 45 BTC (and as we got down more, it will be less).  However, my order was for 50 BTC.

As outlined in #3 above, it seems problematic to start hiding parts of the order (I don't know how much order I'm actually going to get filled on. Rather have a set quantity).  Additionally, this is sort of a stupid behavior for an exchange to allow and its computationally intensive to do this for every order in the sytem.

So is CANCELING the entire order an acceptable response?

Considerations:
  • 1. If we were to just allow the order to get filled up to the allowable amount by the Net Liq/Margin comparison, it would possibly be very near to getting liquidated by a margin call.  Strike against dynamically adjusting the exposed order quantity.
  • 2. Dynamically adjusting the size also messes with the public order book so other users may *think* that there is a bid below, but as we approach the bid, it disappears. Strike against dynamically adjusting the exposed order quantity.
  • 3. Canceling could annoy people. What if it dips down, then rallies back up.  My order was cancelled, so if it dips back down again and now I DO have the available funds to support the order, I might miss the opportunity.

I'm leaning towards CANCEL, because there is clarity about quantity and it messes with the orderbook less, which I think is more important than the annoyance of having orders cancelled.

Consequence:
If we do away with dynamically adjusting the exposed order size, you can no longer submit orders outside the market that you wouldn't be able to sustain (i.e. Sarah's second offer in case 1 would be REJECTED because she has 3 BTC but tried to sell 2 + 2).  THIS IS HOW MOST ACTUAL BROKERAGES BEHAVE. However that does away with the behavior at Mt Gox in Case 2, which allows you to submit BETTER offers/bids that take priority over your previous ones.  For example, it seems like it'd be good behavior to allow Sarah with 3 BTC to offer 2 @ 24, then 2 @ 23, then 2 @ 22 --> then have the resulting order be the most competitive of the orders (i.e. at least the offer at 22 will be represented).

However, this is less _explicit_ and I think I'm willing to sacrifice nicety for clarity, especially when dealing with money.

Would appreciate feedback, suggestions, ideas, cookies and/or other fresh baked goods.

-----------------------------------------

* Near expiration short binary options ** that are pinning their strike, for example.  Whatever you want. The only relevant characteristic about that is that it can make my net liquidation value rise or fall dramatically with relatively small changes in the price of BTC/USD.

** Binary options can trade from any price from 0 to 1, and settle to either 0 or 1 depending on the underlying price at settlement time.  Think of its value as "The probability than the underlying price will be above X at some future time t".  At settlement time, that probability is either 0 or 1.  At any prior time, its somewhere in between.  I'm using this example because it lets my portfolio value change dramatically to illustrate the case of a user's Net Liqudiation Value changing.
takrash
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June 13, 2011, 10:06:53 PM
 #104

Hallo,

I study Informatik Technolgie, just set up a new rig and plan to write a paper about bitcoin.
Therefor it would be nice to be able to post again.
misiu_mp
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June 13, 2011, 10:14:52 PM
 #105

I like it here so far. I dont want to grow up.

I want my childhood back ...
Balthazar
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June 13, 2011, 10:15:39 PM
 #106

Add me in the whitelist, please. I'm not a spammer.

P.S. Such a registration system is ridiculous. Why not complicate the captcha, or not to use pre-moderation of messages from new users? %)
For the thousandth time, this has nothing to do with spam. It's because the regular members were tired of seeing the same threads every single day. For their sake and yours, we made this forum.
Hmmm... You are moderators, and you have a banhammer. That's quite simple solution of this problems, isn't it? Grin I want out of there, because I have questions about IP whitelisting on a slush's pool.

novaco.in | VMWare VMHGFS driver for 3.19.x kernels | Ukrainian translation for Novacoin [Done]
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Anonymous
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June 13, 2011, 10:17:34 PM
 #107

Add me in the whitelist, please. I'm not a spammer.

P.S. Such a registration system is ridiculous. Why not complicate the captcha, or not to use pre-moderation of messages from new users? %)
For the thousandth time, this has nothing to do with spam. It's because the regular members were tired of seeing the same threads every single day. For their sake and yours, we made this forum.
Hmmm... You are moderators, and you have a banhammer. That's quite simple solution of this problems, isn't it? Grin I want out of there, because I have questions about IP whitelisting on a slush's pool.
I highly suggest you find a new pool. Hahaha.
forgotmypassword8x
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June 13, 2011, 10:19:13 PM
 #108

Please let me out.  I have had 3 or 4 prev accounts (forgotmypassword6x, forgotmypassword5x, and a couple others I forgot).  You can look them up and see they were not spam.  I will try to remember the password this time, this new whitelist thing will motivate me more...

ffcitatos
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June 13, 2011, 10:24:28 PM
 #109

Please let me out, it is due to the slush whitelisting policy. Thanks in advance.
Balthazar
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June 13, 2011, 10:27:47 PM
 #110

Add me in the whitelist, please. I'm not a spammer.

P.S. Such a registration system is ridiculous. Why not complicate the captcha, or not to use pre-moderation of messages from new users? %)
For the thousandth time, this has nothing to do with spam. It's because the regular members were tired of seeing the same threads every single day. For their sake and yours, we made this forum.
Hmmm... You are moderators, and you have a banhammer. That's quite simple solution of this problems, isn't it? Grin I want out of there, because I have questions about IP whitelisting on a slush's pool.
I highly suggest you find a new pool. Hahaha.
Thanks for your advice, you opened my eyes. But seriously, I am able to decide what I want and what I need.

novaco.in | VMWare VMHGFS driver for 3.19.x kernels | Ukrainian translation for Novacoin [Done]
฿: 1GV8D5SRkA3cPccpYhVc2wMkjwz3UREEpy: 4RgnHWtnJWEyMhqhDdazW3Hdr7cx5ybF6i
Stowdi
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June 13, 2011, 10:31:24 PM
 #111

Please let me out, it is due to the slush whitelisting policy. Thanks in advance.

same thing!

Xer0
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June 13, 2011, 10:33:42 PM
 #112

Hi guys,

Im Xer0, im long lasted member on many boards, currently doing Bitcoin reladed stuff on two german boards, hardwareluxx.de and p0t.de
If you want a proof of my trustyness:
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/members/xer0-149022/
my Profile at HWluxx, fe.
There i made up an Excel-sheet for complete allround mining rig planning Smiley
As soon as i get unlocked here, i will work it up to english and share here!

Regards,
Xer0 / TC
Smiley
Anonymous
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June 13, 2011, 10:37:51 PM
 #113

I would let all of you whitelisters out if I had the privileges necessary. I apologize for the delay.
lessPlastic
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June 13, 2011, 10:39:46 PM
 #114

I've written this utility for the benefit of the community: Bitcoinvert.com

I'll be mining at >1 Gh/s within the week on three cards which are currently in the mail.

May I please be whitelisted?  Grin
kripz
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June 13, 2011, 11:00:50 PM
 #115

Please whitelist me, currently testing hashkill and need to post feedback that it needs to be updated with btcguild.

 Merged mining, free SMS notifications, PayPal payout and much more.
http://btcstats.net/sig/JZCODg2
tr8
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June 13, 2011, 11:30:45 PM
 #116

I have been looking for sensible solutions for accepting bitcoins for my translation business, and I found a thread ("Let's build a Bitcoin Company") in the Bitcoin Discussion forum in which I would like to participate. I like the idea of putting bitcoins to good use rather than speculators hoarding them, and I want to help encourage their circulation.
kantian_semaphore
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June 14, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
 #117

Hello,

I would like out of the "cage" and onto the whitelist.  I have been a miner for a few weeks -- a little green, perhaps, but still an active participant.  I haven't been an active poster here, yet, because I have been following and getting myself technically caught up with everything going on.  For example, I read the whitepaper on bitcoin because I was interested in writing a python client.  I read up on namecoin because I was intrigued by the idea of using the block chain for something useful (distributed DNS).

The reason I specifically wanted out of the cage at the moment was that I wanted to be able to talk with people about what's happening to the pools.  For example, Slush's pool problem isn't merely a DDoS at this point -- his registration system is pretending to function but not letting people in.  I suppose that *could* be an indirect effect of a DDoS if in fact he has had to do something to respond to the problem, but, it would be good to talk with others about that.

Anyway, I think that I would like to participate in the community at large, and wish that I would be allowed to do so.  Thanks in advance,

-Your friendly neighborhood Kantian semaphore
tvar
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June 14, 2011, 12:36:52 AM
 #118

Please whitelist me so I can reply to some interesting threads in the mining forums.  Other than my useless posts in the newbie forums I made one real post which was a question in the Ubuntu mining guide thread.
DJHeRobot
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June 14, 2011, 01:23:22 AM
 #119

If you have an immediate need to be allowed into the forum beyond, please post your request here. Reasons such as "I'm not a spammer" will be ignored. You must provide evidence that shows that you understand more about Bitcoin than the average newbie would or that what you want to post can only be done in another forum.

Much obliged.

Edit: Many people posting here have already met the 5 posts and 4 hour requirements. If you see "Jr. Member" by your name, you don't need to post here.

Sorry if this post sounds testy, but does "the BTC that is owed to me by DeepBit has been in confirmation limbo for hours now, far and beyond the duration ever taken by any of my previous payments, and there are other people discussing the exact same issue in the DeepBit thread, let me in so I can get my money" count as "evidence that shows... what want to post can only be done in another forum"?
TheMartin
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June 14, 2011, 01:46:00 AM
 #120

Hi,

I was mining in Slushs Pool till connection broke yesterday after a ddos attack on his site.

Just registred into this forum and would like to post in Slush's Mining Thread
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg215450#msg215450
my questions how to react and how to configure my workers now.

So please set me on your Whitelist.

Thanks
Martin
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