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Author Topic: Whitelist Requests (Want out of here?)  (Read 427650 times)
johnjohnx2
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June 18, 2011, 10:18:16 AM
 #341

Alternatively, how do I become an "established user"?

All the best,
mnemonix

Post 5 times in the newbie section and get 4 hours total time logged in.
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Spirals
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June 18, 2011, 10:36:14 AM
 #342

I'm registered under this name for -otc with positive feedback. I'd like to post a bug report in a thread in the Project Development section, which is what brought me to this thread asking for upgrade to Jr Member status. Thanks!

http://wallstreetcrypto.net
khaos
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June 18, 2011, 11:03:34 AM
 #343

Hello,

I have some questions regarding GPU flags for a miner. Which I believe I cannot ask here?
johnjohnx2
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June 18, 2011, 11:56:50 AM
 #344

Well I have 5 posts and >4 hours of time here. still not upgraded. I guess a moderator has to manually change it. Bummer. Guess I'll lurk some more
de_bert
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June 18, 2011, 12:40:17 PM
 #345

I registered to this forum because I have a question about the Mt.Gox API, see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18934.0

I would appreciate being upgraded :-)
blueling
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June 18, 2011, 03:33:49 PM
 #346

I would like to create awareness of an economic effect of BTC mining that will make mining most likely become an near 100% illigal activity in the near future (without governmental intervention). My main point is that mining will become unreasonably expensive for all full-cost paying legal miners (who have to pay for their power consumption).

Here is my bit of theory about BTC mining:

While thinking about rational behavior of BTC users and miners I thought about the fair price of a BTC and how it is tied to the cost of mining a BTC. I realized that the current situation in which it is possible for nearly all enthusiasts to run profitable mining rigs is (probably) a short term market abnormality which is inevitably doomed to disappear soon - completely independent of the BTC price level at the exchanges. I predict the price for mining per BTC (i.e. the costs for electricity (kW/h) that has to be afforded) will in the long-term be higher than the exchange market price that can be earned for selling it - thus for 'normal' people mining will become a money-losing endeuvor. Mining will inevitably become a parasitic (mostly illegal) activity.

The reason for this is quite simple: Whenever the market price for one BTC is higher than the mining cost it will motivate people to participate in mining thereby making the mining task more difficult for all miners. At first I thought this would allow profitable mining only up to the point where the running costs for mining stay below the market price. But then I realized that there are two completely different groups involved in mining: the full-cost paying 'legal' miners and on the other hand the 'illegal' parasitic miners who use secretly computers in public organizations (universities, youth centers etc.) or privat companies. The big difference between those two groups is that the latter does not have to pay for their power consumption what makes mining attractive for them even when the actual total costs for the organisation owning the machines would be prohibitive.

In the BTC mining business the costs for electric power will dominate everything. At first rational miners in regions with the highest energy prices will be squeezed out by miners in regions with lower costs. But finally as the parasite group keeps growing it will eventually make legal mining too expensive .. even for the lowest non-zero energy cost payers.

In the end all mining activity will be performed by illegal/parasitic miners. While the price for one BTC will be higher the price for mining a new one. It is a simple crowding-out effect that places in if the number of parasitic computing power keeps increasing - the parasites are the only ones who keep making profits even when their hosting organization has much higher than break-even expenses.

I wonder whether this has been discussed before and if it could become one of the major points of critique in the public debate (beside the money laundering thing of course). I currently do not see a way to get around this 'problem'. One of the good things about the parasitic BTC mining is that it probobly acts as a strong support for the BTC value - because everybody then knows that a for generating the BTC a substantial amount of money has been stolen/sucked out of some business entity.

I would like to discuss this with the readers of the 'Economics' forum board. Due to the high number of posts I am not 100% sure whether this topic has been addressed before - if it has, please let me know the thread uri.

Comments are welcome!
/blueling

PS: It would be nice if an admin could release me from the newbie-box.
O_Shovah
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June 18, 2011, 03:47:05 PM
 #347

Hello alltogether,

as i have started mining bitcoins only one month ago this is my first time to show up on the forum.

Ich would like to follow/reply especially two topics:

- http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9047.240

The "Official Open Source FPGA Bitcoin Miner" thread  since i dug out my old spartan 3 board an want to contribute to the development of the fpga hardware.

and

- http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg182589#msg182589

The "[Mining Pool] New pool x8s.de " thread, because i switched from deepbit to this pool and want to give some suggestion
towards user interface an questions regarding calculations behind the graphs an statistics.

These are my intentions so far.

I would really appreciate it to be cleared to use this boards.

Best regards   

SteveJobs
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June 18, 2011, 04:15:56 PM
 #348

I'm new but I've already invested a significant amount of time reading about Bitcoin and now have a sizeable financial interest in it as well. I made a thread about a little tidbit of info (The Economist working on a print story) I got here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18987.0 but I'm guessing the Marketplace would be a better forum for it.

16x5sccACR2vkz8HLDwvgkWAzisW7AQAEc
gfaust
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June 18, 2011, 04:51:48 PM
 #349

I would like to be whitelisted.  I'm interested in using the marketplace and mining sub forums. 
preparation
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June 18, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
 #350

I would like to be whitelisted as I want to discuss in this topic:
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9851.40

I tried to get the applicaiton running as a service (as others tried) and partly got this working...

best regards,
prep.
bitfoo
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June 18, 2011, 05:57:56 PM
 #351

New techcrunch article:

http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/18/bitcoin-crazy/

(wanted to post this on http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1958.0 but couldn't)

Icechamp11200
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June 18, 2011, 06:07:31 PM
 #352

Hello my name is Alex.
I'm a relatively new user of bitcoins and I find the entire subject extremely fascinating.
My favorite part about bitcoin is that the system is decentralized, and allows people to send bitcoins relatively easily to each other. I definitely will be adding bitcoin support on my graphics design website once it is complete.

I would greatly appreciate if I can get on the whitelist as I would love to take part in the thread:

https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16950.0

so I can improve my logo creating skills.
While I do understand why this newbie whitelist policy is in effect, Id be extremely grateful if I could be added to the list soon.    Smiley
cecil w.
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June 18, 2011, 07:11:56 PM
 #353

Halloo. Just have some code I want to share. A commandline dealie.
breminp
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June 18, 2011, 08:03:07 PM
 #354

Let me out, I want to ask some Q's on Pushpool's design with regards to guaranteeing individual clients can't just test out their possible solution before submitting it to the pool and avoid sending a winning hash.
Anoynomous
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June 18, 2011, 08:10:25 PM
 #355

Hi,

I am an engineer and i saw this thread while surfing, http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8543.200. I believe i have some great updates to share as i am working on an fpga mining system which is hoped to outclass GPU mining. So, can you please drop the restrictions as i am writing this request to you instead of preparing for my exam due on monday.

regards,
Keichtech
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June 18, 2011, 08:12:30 PM
 #356

Hello

Could I please be whitelisted.

I would like to start posting on the Mining forums.

As oh proof on non noob-ish I present a post (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19101.0)

Thank you for your time
-Keichtech

Wallet # 13By599tiK1z2U3znaXoCtLYTJCfKcuoxd

If you found this post helpful or if you have any bitcoins that are lonely looking for a good home. I promise to treat them right and give them all the love and attention they need. Smiley
Stuffe
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June 18, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
 #357

Hello there.
I havnt posted in here ever, but I have been lurking for a few days now.
I am requesting to get normal access as I wan't to participate in a thread on the Economics board.
Also in general I don't read the Newbie section and I don't really have anything to contribute here atm. (Other than maybe "hello everyone")
Hop you can fix me.
Thanks
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 08:25:31 PM
 #358

I would like to create awareness of an economic effect of BTC mining that will make mining most likely become an near 100% illigal activity in the near future (without governmental intervention). My main point is that mining will become unreasonably expensive for all full-cost paying legal miners (who have to pay for their power consumption).

Here is my bit of theory about BTC mining:

While thinking about rational behavior of BTC users and miners I thought about the fair price of a BTC and how it is tied to the cost of mining a BTC. I realized that the current situation in which it is possible for nearly all enthusiasts to run profitable mining rigs is (probably) a short term market abnormality which is inevitably doomed to disappear soon - completely independent of the BTC price level at the exchanges. I predict the price for mining per BTC (i.e. the costs for electricity (kW/h) that has to be afforded) will in the long-term be higher than the exchange market price that can be earned for selling it - thus for 'normal' people mining will become a money-losing endeuvor. Mining will inevitably become a parasitic (mostly illegal) activity.
...
This is true.  People will start using their companies computers to mine.  However, this will break down quickly, as most computers don't have high-end GPU cards.  With just a CPU miner, you can only make a dollar or so a month now.  The complexity will be so high in 60 days, that even GPUs won't be able to make much more than a few dollars of bitcoins a month.  When your payout is only a few dollars a month, it isn't worth the effort to keep the miner app going.

There have been several rumors that a group called LargeCoin is designing a custom ASIC for hashing.  If that works out, the game is over for anyone else.  An array of 1000 custom ASIC chips could completely dominate the entire network.  When that happens, the group that makes the ASICs can take all of the $100,000 per day of bitcoins generated and keep reinvesting it into more chips until they make the difficulty so high that no one else will ever be able to compete.


Plus ASICs will cost a small fraction of the power of any other solution.  The first successful ASIC group will dominate from that point on.
Hook^
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June 18, 2011, 08:26:05 PM
 #359

I would like to be let into the miner hardware section because I have run some Excel spreadsheet simulations on ROI and want to warn people that buying hardware just to mine BitCoins won't pay off.

I just bought a dual 6970 system, but I bought it before I did the simulations.  I based my purchase on one of the bitcoin calculators.  The problem is that the network is growing at 4% per day in computing horsepower.  That means that your return is losing 4% per day because you essentialy have to compete with everyone else for a fixed rate of bitcoin production per day.  It isn't exactly like that on a day-to-day basis, because the difficulty doesn't adjust continuously.  But the difficulty function adjusts often enough to almost exactly approximate you having to compete directly against everyone else.

When you take the 4% growth into consideration, your break-even goes from 2 months to never.  In my case, I spent $1,000 to produce about 700 MH/S.  Everything else remaining the same, my total cumulative bitcoin production will amount to around $200 before it reaches the cost of electricity in about 60 days.  At that point I will just have to shut it off and sell the parts to my gamer friends for half off.

The only way mining makes sense is if you already have a gaming system and mine in your off times.  But you better do it while it is still worth more than the electricity.  As I said before, that breakeven point will be reached in about 64 days from now.

Some people might say that the exchange rate of bitcoins may go up to compensate.  That may or may not be true.  But if it is, it would make more economic sense to buy bitcoins now and take the gain, rather than buying hardware to generate them. 

I wish that you could paste images directly into the messages, because I have a chart that shows the return falling off a cliff right after purchasing your equipment.

Anyway, I want to warn people not to make the same mistake I made.  The only way to beat the system now is to come out with a custom ASIC for cheap enough per chip that you could dominate the entire network and grow your hardware fast enough to knock out any competitor before they could produce their own ASIC and make a profit.

The frustrating thing about this is that I first read about BitCoin around April of last year (tax season) when I was researching anonymous banking.  I was going to invest $1,000 just as a pure speculation.  I never got around to it though.  If I had followed through, I would have around $7 million now.
Scompee
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June 18, 2011, 08:46:55 PM
 #360

I just want to read the cool stuff Sad
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