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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1172061 times)
galaxiekyl
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December 13, 2016, 10:26:05 PM
 #1721

I think my proposal is bulletproof.

Not really my friend. Who decided small breasts are a disadvantage? If we exclude sailors, which anyway make a minority in crypto world, I am sure most smart and sophisticated people would prefer small breasts. So I say, less points for small breasts!  Grin

Now go back to the drawing table and invent an even fairer distribution of nascent anarcho-capitalist currencies. ( LOL! )

Seriously, asking for ultimate fairness in a system fundamentally based on scarcity is beyond discussion.


Good point, lets revise my proposal then. Breast distribution of 20% starts with the smallest stake going to the perfect breasts (two large ripe perky mangoes), stake gets proportionately larger as claimants breasts deviate from the 'ideal' pair, both larger and smaller, I like it!

In all seriousness, PoW is the best method, but just too wasteful. If you're going to give away coins with possible future value there has to be something of value given in return. It'd be great if the value wasn't restricted to $$ only, as that opens up the distro to the widest possible numbers, but free coins don't work (too easy to game, too much dumping, no community), and ICO's smell bad and attract scammers. Airdropping on BTC holders will 'work', but one day some smart people will devise a really good method of proof of XXXXX that attracts a lot of people, isn't easily gamed, and appears open and reasonably fair. The distro method is really important, but it's still not a priority for coders who lead most projects. The best method for Airdropping hasn't been worked out yet.

no POW isn't best method of distrib for many reasons already cited..do yu know  POC (proof of capacity) ? which is more equiatble profitable and useful. Wink

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tonych
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December 13, 2016, 11:09:52 PM
 #1722

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

Tonych, is the model sort of proof of service? Those that relay the activity and transactions get rewarded some bytes? I read the whitepaper but still am looking for some sort of understanding of this.

It is not a proof-of.
The collected fees are split between regular users who are first to extend the DAG and witnesses who help define the order of transactions.

Simplicity is beauty
James_H
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December 13, 2016, 11:25:42 PM
 #1723

Yesterday i tried to test sent to the address listed on my account, is it random?
People with each other will differ in amount must be sent?
tonych
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December 13, 2016, 11:32:51 PM
 #1724

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

Why it is not instant? say if there are 1000 tx per second in the network, my transaction once done will be covered within a second by 50 other transactions, isn't that after 1 second my transaction will have 50 confirmations? If we put 10 confirmations as confirmed, isn't my tx is confirmed after less than 1 sec?

Perhaps you got used to hear about N confirmations in Bitcoin.  There is no such thing here, your transaction is either final or not.  And getting covered advances it to being final.  Getting covered by witnesses matters most (the structure of the DAG after your transaction also matters for finality).  Witnesses earn fees from transactions they cover, and the more transactions per second there are in the network, the more frequently witnesses will post with positive ROI (they pay fees like everybody else).

You will never get sub-second confirmation times because of network latency.

Simplicity is beauty
CryptoSporidium
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December 13, 2016, 11:54:09 PM
 #1725

I think my proposal is bulletproof.

Not really my friend. Who decided small breasts are a disadvantage? If we exclude sailors, which anyway make a minority in crypto world, I am sure most smart and sophisticated people would prefer small breasts. So I say, less points for small breasts!  Grin

Now go back to the drawing table and invent an even fairer distribution of nascent anarcho-capitalist currencies. ( LOL! )

Seriously, asking for ultimate fairness in a system fundamentally based on scarcity is beyond discussion.


Good point, lets revise my proposal then. Breast distribution of 20% starts with the smallest stake going to the perfect breasts (two large ripe perky mangoes), stake gets proportionately larger as claimants breasts deviate from the 'ideal' pair, both larger and smaller, I like it!

In all seriousness, PoW is the best method, but just too wasteful. If you're going to give away coins with possible future value there has to be something of value given in return. It'd be great if the value wasn't restricted to $$ only, as that opens up the distro to the widest possible numbers, but free coins don't work (too easy to game, too much dumping, no community), and ICO's smell bad and attract scammers. Airdropping on BTC holders will 'work', but one day some smart people will devise a really good method of proof of XXXXX that attracts a lot of people, isn't easily gamed, and appears open and reasonably fair. The distro method is really important, but it's still not a priority for coders who lead most projects. The best method for Airdropping hasn't been worked out yet.

no POW isn't best method of distrib for many reasons already cited..do yu know  POC (proof of capacity) ? which is more equiatble profitable and useful. Wink

PoW is the least bad method, and I agree that PoC  (like BURST) is ok too, both are value neutral and simple to use during the crypto bootstrapping phase where tech experimentation is paramount. Eventually people will devise innovative distro methods that DO include things like values (e.g. compensating disadvantaged  people, planting trees, recycling phones, going to church, joining a political party, joining a fan club, signing a petition etc), and they wont be simple, but they WILL have much more potential for mass adoption though. Whenever you include values, and thus emotions, you attract more people. PoW is the best method TODAY, but later on I suspect the dominant coins will be clones of current coins with innovative distributions that 'fire' people up emotionally. Only crypto geeks see the beauty in current coin designs, everyone else needs something more to get excited about, and the best avenue imo will be to attach the distribution to a cause, a movement, subjective 'values' ... but that realm just isn't a concern for tech guys like tonych, and that's totally understandable. That's why a fork of BB with a different distro method is inevitable, and exciting.

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December 14, 2016, 12:56:35 AM
 #1726

So 35Rwwc9e2Mj7smFXJ1iXF826cMW3tqfz6x has 2578 BTC.
http://transition.byteball.org/

Looks like the top address is from an ICO
https://blockchain.info/address/35Rwwc9e2Mj7smFXJ1iXF826cMW3tqfz6x

This should be removed considering it is the same as an exchange.  Using other people's BTC to benefit.

Evidence here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16595419#msg16595419

I'm sure there are others as well...


It's not other people's BTC anymore. The BTC are owned by the Komodo team's. People did invest in their ICO to get KMD back. So they have used their BTC to get something else in return, it's not their BTC anymore.

No reason to ban ICO address.

And the only reason exchange address are ban it's not because it use other people's BTC but because other people than the exchange owner were able to linked the address.

ICO funds are in fact borrowed funds. ICO token is no more than acknowledgment of debt. These tokens are not earned by ICO starters, they are blown out of the air. Using ICO fund for snapshot is the same as exchange using user's money, no difference.


Yes I agree that ICO fund is a borrowed fund, and borrowed fund shouldn't be used for profit, or they will need to distribute it to those who participated in ICO. If we can identify the fund are not belonging to oneself, then it may be reasonable to exclude it.
dfox101
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December 14, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
 #1727

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

Why it is not instant? say if there are 1000 tx per second in the network, my transaction once done will be covered within a second by 50 other transactions, isn't that after 1 second my transaction will have 50 confirmations? If we put 10 confirmations as confirmed, isn't my tx is confirmed after less than 1 sec?

Perhaps you got used to hear about N confirmations in Bitcoin.  There is no such thing here, your transaction is either final or not.  And getting covered advances it to being final.  Getting covered by witnesses matters most (the structure of the DAG after your transaction also matters for finality).  Witnesses earn fees from transactions they cover, and the more transactions per second there are in the network, the more frequently witnesses will post with positive ROI (they pay fees like everybody else).

You will never get sub-second confirmation times because of network latency.

OK so if I got it correctly, then if the transaction are covered by more than half witnesses' transactions it will be final thus confirmed? Are witnesses always emit transactions? What if none of the witness are doing tx? my tx will never get confirmed?
willowfoot
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December 14, 2016, 02:05:51 AM
 #1728

Starting now, you can link your Byteball and Bitcoin addresses for the upcoming distribution.

[snip ...]

During this distribution we'll distribute 10% of the total supply of bytes and blackbytes.  The remaining 88% will be distributed during subsequent distribution rounds, exact dates to be announced later.  The planned distribution percentages (subject to change):

2nd round: 20%
3rd round: 30%
4th round: 38%

The rounds will be spaced 1 to 2 months.

In each subsequent distribution round, we'll take a new snapshot.  The distribution rules in the 2nd and further rounds will be slightly different from the 1st.  You'll show both your BTC balances (as in the 1st round) and your balance in bytes (which you received in earlier rounds or bought from other users).  You have a sort of basket that consists of a mixture of BTC and bytes.  To determine the weight of the basket, every 62.5 MB are counted as 1 BTC.  For example, if you have 125 MB and 3 BTC, the weight is 2+3=5 BTC.  The distribution of new bytes in the 2nd and subsequent phases will be proportional to the weight of your basket.

My 1% doesn't participate in the 2nd and further rounds.

The ratio 62.5 MB per 1 BTC is chosen so that the total money supply of bytes (1015) and the total number of BTC in circulation (16,000,000) are equivalent.

Earlier adopters have the opportunity to participate in greater number of distribution rounds and receive new bytes in each round by using the same BTC balance and bytes received in previous rounds.  You are effectively doubling your stake in each additional round you take part in.

Track the progress of linking at http://transition.byteball.org

Please retweet https://twitter.com/ByteballOrg/status/806290785486467073


Does this mean our BTC cant move from the address? 

Or after round 1, we can move BTC, then move it back to the same addy for the same affect?

Also, what target month are you looking for round 2 and beyond?

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December 14, 2016, 03:24:40 AM
 #1729


Does this mean our BTC cant move from the address? 



you can move it as much as you like, but if you want to participate you need to move your BTC shortly before December 25, 2016 (e.g. for the 1st round). The same for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round.


Or after round 1, we can move BTC, then move it back to the same addy for the same affect?


right
imbladednow
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December 14, 2016, 04:40:18 AM
 #1730

Total byteball supply is 1 Quadrillion? wtf??

Yeah, why not man. The more the merrier.

I need crypto in my life and garbage out of it.
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December 14, 2016, 05:58:32 AM
 #1731

just count

21 000 000 bitcoin x 100 000 000 satoshi = 2 100 000 000 000 000 = 2.1 peta satoshi

but there are 'only' 1 000 000 000 000 000 byteball = 1 peta byteball

it exists more satoshis than byteballs  Grin
clovis A.
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December 14, 2016, 06:59:37 AM
 #1732

Starting now, you can link your Byteball and Bitcoin addresses for the upcoming distribution.

1.  Download and install the wallet for Byteball live network:
Desktop: https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.byteball.wallet
You will have two Byteball wallets - one for the testnet that you already have, the other for the upcoming live network.

2.  Visit https://byteball.org and click the link to chat with the Transition Bot.  The link will open the new wallet and start a chat.  Follow the instructions of the Transition Bot to prove your Bitcoin balance.


Alright, I completed the first step by downloading and installing the win64 desktop wallet.  In step 2, when I click the link to chat with the Transition Bot, my new wallet opens in chat mode, but no chat is executed with the TB.  I see a blank message window, with no message from TB Sad

Curious if I've done something incorrectly or if TB is not currently on top of his game......

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Cloud storage is about to change
                          Are you ready?
valley365
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December 14, 2016, 07:09:18 AM
 #1733

Lol, so many arguments about the distribution method. We all have egos to ourselves, and hope we will get more. Current distribution method is pretty fair. Let's live with it. Like some rules or laws, even we don't like, we will live with them.
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December 14, 2016, 07:15:18 AM
Last edit: December 14, 2016, 08:42:06 AM by CryptKeeper
 #1734

Starting now, you can link your Byteball and Bitcoin addresses for the upcoming distribution.

1.  Download and install the wallet for Byteball live network:
Desktop: https://github.com/byteball/byteball/releases
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.byteball.wallet
You will have two Byteball wallets - one for the testnet that you already have, the other for the upcoming live network.

2.  Visit https://byteball.org and click the link to chat with the Transition Bot.  The link will open the new wallet and start a chat.  Follow the instructions of the Transition Bot to prove your Bitcoin balance.


Alright, I completed the first step by downloading and installing the win64 desktop wallet.  In step 2, when I click the link to chat with the Transition Bot, my new wallet opens in chat mode, but no chat is executed with the TB.  I see a blank message window, with no message from TB Sad

Curious if I've done something incorrectly or if TB is not currently on top of his game......

The transition bot needs a kick from time to time  Cheesy

Please be patient, I've already informed Tony to reset it.

Update: Bot restarted, try again  Smiley

Follow me on twitter for the latest news on bitcoin and altcoins and I'll follow you back the same day!
Obyte - An open cryptocurrency platform ready for real world adoption
strasboug
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December 14, 2016, 07:19:06 AM
 #1735

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Totally agree with this statement. We should focus on the benefits and new tech of this coin. As long as distribution method is reasonable as it is, it is fine with me.
tonych
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December 14, 2016, 09:53:47 AM
 #1736

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

Why it is not instant? say if there are 1000 tx per second in the network, my transaction once done will be covered within a second by 50 other transactions, isn't that after 1 second my transaction will have 50 confirmations? If we put 10 confirmations as confirmed, isn't my tx is confirmed after less than 1 sec?

Perhaps you got used to hear about N confirmations in Bitcoin.  There is no such thing here, your transaction is either final or not.  And getting covered advances it to being final.  Getting covered by witnesses matters most (the structure of the DAG after your transaction also matters for finality).  Witnesses earn fees from transactions they cover, and the more transactions per second there are in the network, the more frequently witnesses will post with positive ROI (they pay fees like everybody else).

You will never get sub-second confirmation times because of network latency.

OK so if I got it correctly, then if the transaction are covered by more than half witnesses' transactions it will be final thus confirmed? Are witnesses always emit transactions? What if none of the witness are doing tx? my tx will never get confirmed?

It'll do as a very rough approximation, see the white paper for the exact criteria of finality.
Witnesses are expected to always emit transactions, that's one of the factors that determines the choice of witnesses.

Simplicity is beauty
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December 14, 2016, 11:20:32 AM
 #1737

This seems a lot like IOTA with a ton of added features in the mix although maybe I'm simply conflating them because of the consensus mechanism. Byteball adds fees back into the mix though right? I was always uncertain as to how IOTA planned to pull off feeless tx.
Rando
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December 14, 2016, 02:10:55 PM
 #1738

I installed the new livenet wallet.
How do I back up? it says the seed is not enough.
valley365
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December 14, 2016, 05:04:56 PM
 #1739


It'll do as a very rough approximation, see the white paper for the exact criteria of finality.
Witnesses are expected to always emit transactions, that's one of the factors that determines the choice of witnesses.

But do witnesses have to do active transactions? That seem pretty random. It would be easier that witnesses will just do random transactions automatically (say transfer same amount to each other) so people's tx will be guaranteed to be confirmed after certain time?
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December 14, 2016, 05:42:35 PM
 #1740


It'll do as a very rough approximation, see the white paper for the exact criteria of finality.
Witnesses are expected to always emit transactions, that's one of the factors that determines the choice of witnesses.

But do witnesses have to do active transactions? That seem pretty random. It would be easier that witnesses will just do random transactions automatically (say transfer same amount to each other) so people's tx will be guaranteed to be confirmed after certain time?

They don't need to transfer nothing. They need submit a smallest possible storage unit (cheapest) which does not change inputs or outputs, but only confirms previous transactions.

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