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Author Topic: BYTEBALL: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1106077 times)
journeym@n
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December 12, 2016, 05:05:12 PM
 #1681


I am generally with you on fairness issue. One measure of civilization is how fair and reasonable it is.
But your sentiment here is propelled by the same greed that drives all of us including whales.
If you recognize that, you will cease hiding behind elaborate "reasoning" supposedly for universal fairness.

Better world is possible but a knot to untie that world is way bellow sky planes of currency.

Interesting but incorrect in this particular case.

I have worked out that I would probably capture less BB if it went fair launch POW than I would by linking my BTC addresses.

I also do not find my reasoning to be elaborate in this instance. It is there is black and white for anyone to examine.

Sometimes common sense is enough. In this case rewarding the wealthiest with the most and giving the poorest the least is enough. It is just the start in this case there are many levels upon which this fails compared to POW and even ICO.


Also keep in mind that proposed per phase distribution allows for some quite generous and incentivizing dynamic. I am not sure if its intention or a mistake but think of this:
In first phase you linked 5 BTC. On 25th of december you will get something between 10 and 35 Gb. For second phase, your total share will be equal to 165-565 BTC (10Gb/62.5Mb+5BTC - 35Gb/62.5Mb+5BTC). Against those who entered phase one with you, proportion remains the same. But those entering in phase 2 will have to own >165-565 BTC to receive more than you in that phase. Not to mention phase 3 etc.

Going from 5 to 165-565 BTC weight is some serious incentivization for early adopters.

This all stands if explanation from page 1 is complete, final and correct.
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December 12, 2016, 05:15:41 PM
 #1682

I hope someone puts up a countdown meter please for mining phase. Thx

There you go: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=211&iso=20161224T235959&year=2016&month=12&day=24&hour=23&min=59&sec=59&msg=Countdown%20to%20ByteBall%20phase%201&csz=1

 Grin
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December 12, 2016, 05:24:20 PM
 #1683


You can check http://icocountdown.com for the countdown to release Smiley

wosch76
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December 12, 2016, 05:35:39 PM
 #1684

great work hermesesus

what about a tutorial for Ledger Wallet (HW.1, Nano), anyone?

Unfortunately, it is not possible yet to sign a message with a Ledger Wallet and its Chrome app
The "sign a message" feature is in development (roadmap: https://trello.com/c/xMK8hj9r)

It's possible since you can use your Ledger Nano - (or Nano S) with Electrum.

I've made a tutorial for Ledger Nano S with Electrum
Please send me your feedback



Tutorial: linking Ledger wallet Nano S to Byteball account via signing a message with Electrum
...
BTC: 1PCFYMwCb4F2M2zezY1gAooKHTTtrvX1e2
Thank you hermesesus
great work
will try it later

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viziano
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December 12, 2016, 06:20:28 PM
 #1685

The idea is there and its pretty well executed.
Look good.

Will be downloading the TN right now and play a little bit.

...........  FREE DISTRIBUTION TO BTC HOLDERS                                 NEW CONSENSUS ALGORITHM
● Byteball ●.   ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
..........  REGULATORY COMPLIANT ASSETS                                       UNTRACEABLE PAYMENTS
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December 12, 2016, 06:33:37 PM
 #1686


I insist.  The whole thing is meant to replace a crowdfund.  tonych NOT taking your BTC was/is supposed to be a good thing (for Christ's sake).  The overall required valuation of the project to make the dev happy with this decision is peanuts and easily achievable.  Thus, highly likely to be deemed a success.  No one said that Byteball will be launching on the Moon.  Whether Cryptoland will take it there (or not) remains to be seen.  Whales can't do shit to prevent such outcome long-term (if anything, they usually provide the last push), although space shuttle solid rocket boosters are no joke.



I think you underestimate the whales power and determination not to mention greed. I've seen them wait years to make moves happen while outwaiting everyone except the very few who held through it all. You cant base your investment on what you hope whales will do anyway because doing that will lead to only one place. Your pocket. And that's where it hurts the most.

Yes, it's not about "fairness" when 7 accounts control 60% as of Dec 11th...
It's the fact that the EE whales we are talking about got rich by stripping and ditching dozens of previous projects.

So Tony is just a front for these guys, OK...
Not saying one cannot make money here, even lots of it. Back up the truck, man.
valley365
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December 12, 2016, 07:05:27 PM
 #1687


I am generally with you on fairness issue. One measure of civilization is how fair and reasonable it is.
But your sentiment here is propelled by the same greed that drives all of us including whales.
If you recognize that, you will cease hiding behind elaborate "reasoning" supposedly for universal fairness.

Better world is possible but a knot to untie that world is way bellow sky planes of currency.

Interesting but incorrect in this particular case.

I have worked out that I would probably capture less BB if it went fair launch POW than I would by linking my BTC addresses.

I also do not find my reasoning to be elaborate in this instance. It is there is black and white for anyone to examine.

Sometimes common sense is enough. In this case rewarding the wealthiest with the most and giving the poorest the least is enough. It is just the start in this case there are many levels upon which this fails compared to POW and even ICO.


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.
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December 12, 2016, 07:53:18 PM
 #1688


I am generally with you on fairness issue. One measure of civilization is how fair and reasonable it is.
But your sentiment here is propelled by the same greed that drives all of us including whales.
If you recognize that, you will cease hiding behind elaborate "reasoning" supposedly for universal fairness.

Better world is possible but a knot to untie that world is way bellow sky planes of currency.

Interesting but incorrect in this particular case.

I have worked out that I would probably capture less BB if it went fair launch POW than I would by linking my BTC addresses.

I also do not find my reasoning to be elaborate in this instance. It is there is black and white for anyone to examine.

Sometimes common sense is enough. In this case rewarding the wealthiest with the most and giving the poorest the least is enough. It is just the start in this case there are many levels upon which this fails compared to POW and even ICO.


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.


Fair launch POW favours nobody at all. You all have to contribute the same effort to mine. The only real variable is cost of electricity and over a short mining period that does not mean much.  

Of course if you have more money you can rent more hash? but you are actually being charged the same as anyone else. You are actually spending money you are not getting coins for free however rich you are. This method is giving you a LOT more FREE coins just because you are rich and have more BTC you do not have to spend your BTC to get it. So you are getting hugely unfair advantage at no cost or risk at all.

POW also will encourage the dev to work much harder because he can have 20% of the coin imagine that. However it must only be released to him for milestones over years and continued support.

There are NO downsides of POW against this Whales become Whales forever at no extra cost method.

This method suggested here was suggested in 2013 and was shouted down and crushed as it should be because BTC whales just end up owning everything forever in the crypto sphere.


POW with fair launch protocol and the measures I have mentioned in place is perhaps a fairness level 9 compared to a fairness level 2 for this method. The only thing more unfair is tonych just giving it to the very richest BTC owner and none for anyone else.


If this one slips through with this distributional method you can be sure there will be others to follow.

Please review all of my posts and think about it all. Then again form a solid argument of why you believe we should give BTC whales whale shares for free in new alt coins whilst giving the poorest crypto peasants the least.

There is essential no way to scam a POW launch with fair launch protocols in place. It is impossible. The devs share will be what is agreed and everyone else will battle on a fair playing field.

I have a new plan that could perhaps work.

How about we distribute 25% by linking BTC wallets. Then POW the remaining 75%. Then whales will still have some interest but not total monopoly to manipulate and pump and dump the markets.

POW will save this from so many ill fates it is setting itself up for.

Let's hope some people will see how this is not going to work out well and try to persuade tony to change or even modify this distributional model.



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December 12, 2016, 09:20:47 PM
 #1689

Hi tonych,
After this 25th snapshot, byteball and blackbytes will be distributed as per the rules you announced.
Byteball will be send to linked byteball addresses that reside on "byteball public DAG", I can understand this is completely asynchronous process..
What I cannot understand is about blackbytes distribution:
1) Is it an automatic or interactive process (need human intervention)?
2) Will byteball client with the linked keys on peoples computers need to be left running to receive these coins?
Thanks again.
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December 12, 2016, 09:28:11 PM
 #1690


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.


Fair launch POW favours nobody at all. You all have to contribute the same effort to mine. The only real variable is cost of electricity and over a short mining period that does not mean much.  

Of course if you have more money you can rent more hash? but you are actually being charged the same as anyone else. You are actually spending money you are not getting coins for free however rich you are. This method is giving you a LOT more FREE coins just because you are rich and have more BTC you do not have to spend your BTC to get it. So you are getting hugely unfair advantage at no cost or risk at all.

...

Of course PoW favors big guys with hash power. Just look at other coins for PoW, who got the most of the coins? Go to a pool and look, big guys got it all. For a small guy like me, I'd prefer what Tony defined for distribution. The distribution is not once for all, but several distribution and also count the BBs you have. So it is fair.
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December 12, 2016, 09:40:30 PM
 #1691


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.


Fair launch POW favours nobody at all. You all have to contribute the same effort to mine. The only real variable is cost of electricity and over a short mining period that does not mean much.  

Of course if you have more money you can rent more hash? but you are actually being charged the same as anyone else. You are actually spending money you are not getting coins for free however rich you are. This method is giving you a LOT more FREE coins just because you are rich and have more BTC you do not have to spend your BTC to get it. So you are getting hugely unfair advantage at no cost or risk at all.

...

Of course PoW favors big guys with hash power. Just look at other coins for PoW, who got the most of the coins? Go to a pool and look, big guys got it all. For a small guy like me, I'd prefer what Tony defined for distribution. The distribution is not once for all, but several distribution and also count the BBs you have. So it is fair.


Come on ....of course the more hash power you have the more coins you will mine. That's not at all what I am saying is it?

Rich guy wants to rent hash he has to pay the same as you to rent hash.

Rich guy wants BB he gets magnitude more than you will for putting the same effort in of linking his BTC whale account.

Can you see here that BB is less fair than POW?

I can't reverse time and circumstances that made him rich and you poor can I? Life maybe was not fair but in crypto you can make things a little more fair for the poor (non BTC whales)

I am saying to you that this method will ensure that he (rich guy) will put the same effort and cost as you into BB and get magnitudes more coins. Where as if it was POW to get 2x more coins than you he will have to spend 2x more? If he spends the same as you he will get the same.

Yes there will be argument he owns his farm and you are renting hash - so what he had to buy the hardware. FYI I have a tiny amount of rigs in my house and will get far less mining than I will by linking my BTC accounts.

Also lots of hash whales tend to rent hash now on launches. Most GPU huge farms stick to high volume coins to unload and pay electricity and hardware loans anyway.


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December 12, 2016, 10:08:02 PM
 #1692

Come on ....of course the more hash power you have the more coins you will mine. That's not at all what I am saying is it?

Rich guy wants to rent hash he has to pay the same as you to rent hash.

Rich guy wants BB he gets magnitude more than you will for putting the same effort in of linking his BTC whale account.

Can you see here that BB is less fair than POW?

I can't reverse time and circumstances that made him rich and you poor can I? Life maybe was not fair but in crypto you can make things a little more fair for the poor (non BTC whales)

I am saying to you that this method will ensure that he (rich guy) will put the same effort and cost as you into BB and get magnitudes more coins. Where as if it was POW to get 2x more coins than you he will have to spend 2x more? If he spends the same as you he will get the same.

Yes there will be argument he owns his farm and you are renting hash - so what he had to buy the hardware. FYI I have a tiny amount of rigs in my house and will get far less mining than I will by linking my BTC accounts.

Also lots of hash whales tend to rent hash now on launches. Most GPU huge farms stick to high volume coins to unload and pay electricity and hardware loans anyway.


Well you are right about the rich guy need to spend btc to buy hash power, but if it is a profitable operation (like for example when zcash was launched), isn't rich guys will get a lot more profits than the poor guys? so what's the diff between the distribution proposed here? It's the same as the example of bank interest someone gave before.
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December 12, 2016, 10:12:07 PM
 #1693


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.


Fair launch POW favours nobody at all. You all have to contribute the same effort to mine. The only real variable is cost of electricity and over a short mining period that does not mean much.  

Of course if you have more money you can rent more hash? but you are actually being charged the same as anyone else. You are actually spending money you are not getting coins for free however rich you are. This method is giving you a LOT more FREE coins just because you are rich and have more BTC you do not have to spend your BTC to get it. So you are getting hugely unfair advantage at no cost or risk at all.

...

Of course PoW favors big guys with hash power. Just look at other coins for PoW, who got the most of the coins? Go to a pool and look, big guys got it all. For a small guy like me, I'd prefer what Tony defined for distribution. The distribution is not once for all, but several distribution and also count the BBs you have. So it is fair.


Come on ....of course the more hash power you have the more coins you will mine. That's not at all what I am saying is it?

Rich guy wants to rent hash he has to pay the same as you to rent hash.

Rich guy wants BB he gets magnitude more than you will for putting the same effort in of linking his BTC whale account.

Can you see here that BB is less fair than POW?

I can't reverse time and circumstances that made him rich and you poor can I? Life maybe was not fair but in crypto you can make things a little more fair for the poor (non BTC whales)

I am saying to you that this method will ensure that he (rich guy) will put the same effort and cost as you into BB and get magnitudes more coins. Where as if it was POW to get 2x more coins than you he will have to spend 2x more? If he spends the same as you he will get the same.

Yes there will be argument he owns his farm and you are renting hash - so what he had to buy the hardware. FYI I have a tiny amount of rigs in my house and will get far less mining than I will by linking my BTC accounts.

Also lots of hash whales tend to rent hash now on launches. Most GPU huge farms stick to high volume coins to unload and pay electricity and hardware loans anyway.



Please stop with your PoW. You want to move from a distribution model where anyone can gets byteball for free to one where you have to either mine yourself or rent hashpower. Who the hell do you think will rent hashpower ? People with a lot money because people with a tiny amount are not going to risk it.

The current distribution method is more fair than PoW because :
You don't risk your money : in PoW you have to either mine yourself - so you pay hardware and electricity or rent it, so both case you pay
Anyone can join easily : two methods to link your BTC address and there is lot of tutorials - not the case for PoW, it's not that easy to mine even with tutorials for a guy lambda
Easy to put handle for the creator : creating a PoW coin just to make an initial distribution, then make a snapshot, then distribute the real coins is to much work for nothing.

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December 12, 2016, 10:26:02 PM
 #1694


the problem isn't that icounter..exchange..take an part of bb..same if it is conséquent. they be guided by avarice this disturbs me already more..i think for ICO or EXCHANGE..bb dev must control than the investors in ICO or EXCHANGE will profit of bbs (more users like @tonych was hoping) because this may prejudice the project from a moral point of view.. i think so if komodo dev or exchange want big part of bbs they must do with their own funds to legit their claiming.

because this is the model of bankster actually..wich use client account for play on markets..i dont understand why some peoples here take so much to defend them  if they are not of one those..i think than all peoples here want the best for bb project so do the best for bbs not for flatter the ego of some.
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December 12, 2016, 11:56:09 PM
 #1695


"fair launch POW" will not be fair at all, it favors people with more hash power thus those with more BTCs (they can buy hash power at places like nicehash). ICOs even worse, it put priority to those who have more BTCs and satisfy first the greedy of the dev, instead of encouraging dev to do a better work. And many garbage coins and promises on the papaer are created this way.


Fair launch POW favours nobody at all. You all have to contribute the same effort to mine. The only real variable is cost of electricity and over a short mining period that does not mean much.  

Of course if you have more money you can rent more hash? but you are actually being charged the same as anyone else. You are actually spending money you are not getting coins for free however rich you are. This method is giving you a LOT more FREE coins just because you are rich and have more BTC you do not have to spend your BTC to get it. So you are getting hugely unfair advantage at no cost or risk at all.

...

Of course PoW favors big guys with hash power. Just look at other coins for PoW, who got the most of the coins? Go to a pool and look, big guys got it all. For a small guy like me, I'd prefer what Tony defined for distribution. The distribution is not once for all, but several distribution and also count the BBs you have. So it is fair.


Come on ....of course the more hash power you have the more coins you will mine. That's not at all what I am saying is it?

Rich guy wants to rent hash he has to pay the same as you to rent hash.

Rich guy wants BB he gets magnitude more than you will for putting the same effort in of linking his BTC whale account.

Can you see here that BB is less fair than POW?

I can't reverse time and circumstances that made him rich and you poor can I? Life maybe was not fair but in crypto you can make things a little more fair for the poor (non BTC whales)

I am saying to you that this method will ensure that he (rich guy) will put the same effort and cost as you into BB and get magnitudes more coins. Where as if it was POW to get 2x more coins than you he will have to spend 2x more? If he spends the same as you he will get the same.

Yes there will be argument he owns his farm and you are renting hash - so what he had to buy the hardware. FYI I have a tiny amount of rigs in my house and will get far less mining than I will by linking my BTC accounts.

Also lots of hash whales tend to rent hash now on launches. Most GPU huge farms stick to high volume coins to unload and pay electricity and hardware loans anyway.



Please stop with your PoW. You want to move from a distribution model where anyone can gets byteball for free to one where you have to either mine yourself or rent hashpower. Who the hell do you think will rent hashpower ? People with a lot money because people with a tiny amount are not going to risk it.

The current distribution method is more fair than PoW because :
You don't risk your money : in PoW you have to either mine yourself - so you pay hardware and electricity or rent it, so both case you pay
Anyone can join easily : two methods to link your BTC address and there is lot of tutorials - not the case for PoW, it's not that easy to mine even with tutorials for a guy lambda
Easy to put handle for the creator : creating a PoW coin just to make an initial distribution, then make a snapshot, then distribute the real coins is to much work for nothing.


Agree. I feel the current distribution is very fair, and I am gratitude that dev did not do an ICO or CFC and distribute coins for free. This increases the credibility of the dev team and is certainly recommended.
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December 13, 2016, 12:19:34 AM
 #1696

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.
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December 13, 2016, 01:09:18 AM
 #1697

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?
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December 13, 2016, 01:11:00 AM
 #1698

Hi tonych,
After this 25th snapshot, byteball and blackbytes will be distributed as per the rules you announced.
Byteball will be send to linked byteball addresses that reside on "byteball public DAG", I can understand this is completely asynchronous process..
What I cannot understand is about blackbytes distribution:
1) Is it an automatic or interactive process (need human intervention)?
2) Will byteball client with the linked keys on peoples computers need to be left running to receive these coins?
Thanks again.

1) It is automatic.
2) Not necessary, you'll see both bytes and blackbytes as soon as you start the wallet after the coins are sent out.

Simplicity is beauty
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December 13, 2016, 01:14:36 AM
 #1699

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

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December 13, 2016, 01:40:31 AM
 #1700

The distribution model has become such a distraction it dominates the community conversation, should be speaking more about the merits of the technology and platform.

Yes all people are greedy and wish to get more, in a more "fair" deal to himself.

Talking about tech stuff, I have a question: since there's no fixed block time, the tx happens as it comes, isn't that should be instant confirmation if there are enough activity going on? What is the delay of the confirmation? it heavily depend on the network activity?


It is not instant, it takes a few minutes and depends on the overall activity in the network: the more activity, the faster.

Tonych, is the model sort of proof of service? Those that relay the activity and transactions get rewarded some bytes? I read the whitepaper but still am looking for some sort of understanding of this.

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