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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007542 times)
qiuness
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June 07, 2013, 07:13:31 PM
 #2161

ordered 1 jupiter and was wondering...(for a possible second jupiter)

Use my new order number #687 or my old pre-order ID
Order ID: 1778
The desired goods: Jupiter

=

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Bitcoinorama
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June 07, 2013, 07:31:16 PM
 #2162

ordered 1 jupiter and was wondering...(for a possible second jupiter)

Use my new order number #687 or my old pre-order ID
Order ID: 1778
The desired goods: Jupiter


Pure guesstimate...but I reckon older the original sign of interest the earlier you queue position.

Nothing confirmed, haven't asked. Just logic.

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rizzman
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June 07, 2013, 08:12:08 PM
 #2163

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.
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June 07, 2013, 08:27:07 PM
 #2164

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

Incorrect. The initial 500 pre-orderers (if that's a term) enabled KnC to secure ORSoC as a partner.

Part of their criteria to come aboard was an idea of volume of genuine interest.

You may not remember the initial revision of the KnC site, but it gave two scenarios.

Those prepared to pay for a $3k machine upfront pre-order to be in the first 500.

Those prepared to pay half the funds to secure a $3k machine upfront, followed by the second half at the time delivery starts to be in a second batch of 500. (Memories foggy, think that deal was right).

In any case they want to reward those that helped them make this a reality...

In this case confirmed interest talked and said money will follow with a shit-hot ASIC design team.

KnC have openly said; No ORSoC on board, no dice. It was the initial pre-orderers that made this happen...

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KS
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June 07, 2013, 08:56:18 PM
 #2165

I have read they partnered with ORSoC. That seems a legit and long living company thats trustworthy. But i dont remember to read how much financially KNCMiner is invested into ORSoC. I mean how much money did they put into ORSoC? Partnering could mean that ORSoC is paying the development and creation of the chips out of their own pockets. Were there numbers how much money KNCMiner put into ORSoC somewhere? If its much, and the amount of money KNCMiner got with their preorders isnt much higher, it would be a pretty good sign that KNCMiner is legit. Because they cant run easily.
Only thing to consider then would be the time when the miners are in customers hands.

A partnership doesn't mean you'll put any money into the other company.

The way I see it, KNCMINER will handle the front of the house and ORSoC the back. KNCMINER with take care or orders and payments and ORSoC will bill them, as a supplier.

This way, the risky bit (debt) is with KNCMINER while the profits can stay with ORSoC. If things go pear shaped, bankrupting KNCMINER will be much cheaper (and the profits are more or less safe with ORSoC - I'm sure though that Sweden must have some rule like "money that has been paid by KNCMINER to X,Y,Z within the last xx months needs to be returned and shared amongst all the creditors/state/banks/whatnot", so it's not all bad).

Please understand (KS I'm sure you do) there is a reputational element.

For all intents and purposes time is a healer etc. but any misappropriation of funds or failure would cause significant problems for them in future. Being affiliated with Bitcoin, there is a public relations risk for them I'm sure they don't want a failure on their hands. It's more than other people's money...

Not just misappropriation of funds, but bad management.

The goose with the golden eggs is ORSoC. If KNCMINER fails as a company, ORSoC can find another shell company to sell same or similar miners, can take over the clientele and generally let KNCMINER die and the accumulated debt with it (if debt is the killer).

That's an "old" business strategy: keep the money safe from the debt.

Same if the directors decide to split. KNCMINER is dead and ORSoC can take over the business directly or indirectly.

That doesn't mean ORSoC's reputation will suffer one bit. It depends how they will spin it and what they will do about it (if they don't do anything, it will be bad, but if they offer to take over support, they'll be seen as saviors).

I´m not defending nor accusing one or the other side of this arrangement - but in case of illiquidity of KNC they can´t just drop the business and leave. There would be formal    insolvency proceedings, a liquidator would be commissioned by court. One creditor (ORSoC) wouldn´t be favored over other creditors (e.g. customers). Financial transactions can be forced to take back for a time frame up to 3 month. If two companies are involved, both would could be hold accountable for fraudulent charges in court. Also the acting managers could be hold responsible personally even with there stakes in other companies.

Not saying, pre-paid money is safe, just saying, European Laws in case of bankruptcy are quite strict and although I know, that doesn´t make it impossible to get burned, it could be an advantage to deal with legit companies compared to deals with completely unknown people from literally anywhere in the world.

3 months only? Not so much then.

Anyway, when I speak of "old busines strategy", I don't necessarily imply fraud. It's a sound practice to keep your business running in case of, say, "Force Majeure". You can more easily dump the toxic bit that way. In Europe it's still costly, but it's usually less than "total loss". I wouldn't be surprised if the IP stayed with ORSoC "just in case".

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rizzman
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June 07, 2013, 09:41:18 PM
 #2166

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

Incorrect. The initial 500 pre-orderers (if that's a term) enabled KnC to secure ORSoC as a partner.

Part of their criteria to come aboard was an idea of volume of genuine interest.

You may not remember the initial revision of the KnC site, but it gave two scenarios.

Those prepared to pay for a $3k machine upfront pre-order to be in the first 500.

Those prepared to pay half the funds to secure a $3k machine upfront, followed by the second half at the time delivery starts to be in a second batch of 500. (Memories foggy, think that deal was right).

In any case they want to reward those that helped them make this a reality...

In this case confirmed interest talked and said money will follow with a shit-hot ASIC design team.

KnC have openly said; No ORSoC on board, no dice. It was the initial pre-orderers that made this happen...

If this is really the case, my sincere apologies. I did not realize that the 1-500 orders were actually money down pre-orders.

But my question is this then, what the hell are people selling exactly with these 1-500 orders? because these things are going for 3btc a piece, nobody in their right might is going to sell a bought and paid for Miner for 3btc... unless this includes the purchase price separatly. I thought these are nothing more than clicks in the kncminer.com "Add to cart" button. But if as you say, money was put up. I have no problem with this.

What I do have a problem with is someone clicking the button... a month ago, then coming to find out a month later, that there may be actual value in the product AFTER someone has already taken the risk and paid, then going back to their cart, paying for a stale order, and getting it before me when they waited till the last minute to pay... This I have a problem with..
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June 07, 2013, 09:58:35 PM
 #2167

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

Incorrect. The initial 500 pre-orderers (if that's a term) enabled KnC to secure ORSoC as a partner.

Part of their criteria to come aboard was an idea of volume of genuine interest.

You may not remember the initial revision of the KnC site, but it gave two scenarios.

Those prepared to pay for a $3k machine upfront pre-order to be in the first 500.

Those prepared to pay half the funds to secure a $3k machine upfront, followed by the second half at the time delivery starts to be in a second batch of 500. (Memories foggy, think that deal was right).

In any case they want to reward those that helped them make this a reality...

In this case confirmed interest talked and said money will follow with a shit-hot ASIC design team.

KnC have openly said; No ORSoC on board, no dice. It was the initial pre-orderers that made this happen...

If this is really the case, my sincere apologies. I did not realize that the 1-500 orders were actually money down pre-orders.

But my question is this then, what the hell are people selling exactly with these 1-500 orders? because these things are going for 3btc a piece, nobody in their right might is going to sell a bought and paid for Miner for 3btc... unless this includes the purchase price separatly. I thought these are nothing more than clicks in the kncminer.com "Add to cart" button. But if as you say, money was put up. I have no problem with this.

What I do have a problem with is someone clicking the button... a month ago, then coming to find out a month later, that there may be actual value in the product AFTER someone has already taken the risk and paid, then going back to their cart, paying for a stale order, and getting it before me when they waited till the last minute to pay... This I have a problem with..

No payment was made, but those who followed earliest and were interested in the development clicked a button to generate a volume of interest.

That volume of interest was disclosed to ORSoC meeting a minimum they had set before considering the project as a partner.

Without that known volume of interest there would be no KnC and ORSoC partnership.

Andreas and Sam had no interest on pursuing this without ORSoC.

With this in mind and many serious contenders in the original 500 that confirmed pre-order placements KnC promised to honour those that helped them ensure this project met ORSoC's criteria of a minimum 500-1000 units.

KnC are now making good on that. Which to be fair is pretty damn respectful.

There is some vocal opposition but they were 1. Late to the party or not paying attention, or 2. Not aware of how this has progressed.

KnC and ORSoC for all intents and purposes appear to be a pretty cool set of guys bending over backwards to accommodate as much as they can for people. I can definitely vouch for them taking my ideas into genuine consideration, there's a poll on their homepage proving that!!

In any case they are setting up for production not batches! So dependant on volumes produced per day you have little to concern yourself with. At least in comparison to those ordering month(s) later...

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June 07, 2013, 10:09:40 PM
 #2168

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?

DPoS
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June 07, 2013, 10:28:31 PM
 #2169

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

you need to get out more.. tell that to the waiting list for a tesla or a ferrari

or for certain preferred stock in a company...you really need to get off the training wheels of life


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Bitcoinorama
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June 07, 2013, 10:28:44 PM
 #2170

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?



Nope. I just spent ages weighing up the odds on who to place my bets with.

Originally like most I considered BFL. The issue was the competitive advantage and the volume of pre-orders they had at that point, plus growing distrust and no proven prototype (at that point). Actually now to be fair as well as I would only have been interested in the 60gh/s machines (x4).

I had the option of purchasing the Avalon batch 3's. Literally email pinged the moment they released them and I had the chance of being in the 300. I turned down the opportunity as the price wasn't known until that point and it was multiples of before. Plus as we know BFL were *just about* to ship...Wink

I looked around at other offers specifically asicrigs.com, not that I took them seriously, but they were in the UK so I would have paid on pick up in person (I had them agree to this)...but knew too well it was a scam. I had some great fun busting Cedartec and a couple of others, so by the time KnC were claiming to be serious I was in full anti-scam mode. Thing is they started checking out, ORSoC was the biggy...since then I've performed a tonne of research, as of course have others here, in a variety of confidence. I chose to stay optimistic, and have studied product design (BSc) and engineering design (MSc), so I appreciate the itterative process involved in bringing a product to fruition. I had quite a bit of emailing back and fourth and Sam always responded quickly and knowledgabley. Unlike the aforementioned scams it wasn't BS either, he clearly and confidently gave me straight answers and no curve balls.

The Avalon bulk chips were announced and whilst that seems great the issue I have here is the logistics in DIYers splitting and sending respective chip orders to various unknown intermediaries and prioritising their preferred associates. I couldn't confidently see myself with a working ASIC miner (even if the DIY route does work without snags) in an appropriate time and there's too many potential weak links in the chain for my comfort. Actually Terrahash look good, but they're state-side which means crazy import duties for me (UK). I don't think a lot of Butterfly Labs UK buyers have really thought this through properly, the UK's import duty for outside the EU changed last year, there is now an additional stealth levy of 9% on the total cost once the 20% VAT is added for purchases above £130!! Which basically means every mining device from the US.

By this point in any case we all now knew 60-70 gh/s wouldn't have long term use, but would be great for right now. Fact was for me at least it wasn't about to happen right now, and even though Avalon had proven themselves to have working kit, the price upgrade put me off and made me question their intentions. In some ways I'm lucky I had doubts, as they wouldn't have arrived as promised by now anyway!

The KnC route fit my budget, and they are based close by in Europe so I can check them out. Which obviously I am about to for that money! In addition they started throwing the FPGA idea around so I started pressing the Litecoin FPGA idea off the back of reading a Blockburner's thread. I've spoken to him a fair bit and it seemed like a wayy better ROI, but Bitcoin is the dominant cryptocurrency. In any case KnC have promised to revisit that idea, so I'm happy there.

Question is would I like to be on their Payroll? Sure why not, I find this cryptocurrency mining development really interesting. With respect to how I've approached this thread, I've just been helpful to those that are cool and share research and ideas, a little less polite sometimes to those that are too lazy to research and most importantly take responsibility to research themselves, and shot down the trolling shite as it's turned up with no useful purpose. I hope I have been helpful, but trust me it's been for my gain as much as anyone else's!

I probably bullied Daggeto and JohnyJ into attending the openday and asking questions bit too much though, haha!

In any case my confidence, positivity, optimism whatever is nothing to base your decision on, always do our own research. This may as well become a signature now, but the above probably needs a disclaimer in any case!

Edit: another factor i forgot to include was the almost doubling of price and reduction in power BFL revised at the beg of April. I had waited after reading the forums for a while (both BFL and here as a non-member) to see a prototype from them before ordering. I saw the Jalepeno for all of a handful of days before the price increase, but didn't purchase then because I hadn't seen proof of a real multi-chip configuration aside Avalon. Jalepeno evidence does not equal Single SC evidence and how right I was. I still had some itchy feet, the price increase solidified it. For me the KnC choice boils down to this; verifiable background (LinkedIN), video, communications, credit card payment, ORSoC reputation and proximity close enough for me to physically meet and check out those responsible personally, additionally verified by other independent third parties as well (Daggeteo, JohnyJ, 600Watt, et al.).

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Bitcoinorama
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June 07, 2013, 10:41:00 PM
 #2171

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?

Nope. I just spent ages weighing up the odds on who to place my bets with.

Have you seen proof of KNCMiner & ORSoC partnership? If such proof doesn't exist, chance is high you will (hopefully) learn important lession here.

Yes, if you haven't where the hell have you been?!

That's quite a statement to make considering you were trolling Terrahash earlier today with coincidentally as much informed knowledge before typing your thoughts...

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idee2013
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June 07, 2013, 10:46:14 PM
 #2172

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?

Nope. I just spent ages weighing up the odds on who to place my bets with.

Have you seen proof of KNCMiner & ORSoC partnership? If such proof doesn't exist, chance is high you will (hopefully) learn important lession here.

Yes, if you haven't where the hell have you been?!

That's quite a statement to make considering you were trolling Terrahash earlier today with coincidentally as much informed knowledge before typing your thoughts...

+1
wow, what are the people doing here?.....and  i get attacked, when i try to sell spots because peoples say that i have 0.0 work for it....you have to spent  extremly many hours and weeks to know that all by reading and searching things about KNC....
very impressive
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June 07, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
 #2173

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?

Nope. I just spent ages weighing up the odds on who to place my bets with.

Have you seen proof of KNCMiner & ORSoC partnership? If such proof doesn't exist, chance is high you will (hopefully) learn important lession here.

Yes, if you haven't where the hell have you been?!

That's quite a statement to make considering you were trolling Terrahash earlier today with coincidentally as much informed knowledge before typing your thoughts...

+1
wow, what are the people doing here?.....and  i get attacked, when i try to sell spots because peoples say that i have 0.0 work for it....you have to spent  extremly many hours and weeks to know that all by reading and searching things about KNC....
very impressive

It is expectable you'll +1 Bitcoinrama and anyone saying KNCMiner is legit, after all you have a stake in the deal yourself with 3 order spots.

What will be impressive is amount of cries once hundreds of you without any scam alarm end up scammed. I'll be around to laugh on you hard.

Great, personally I don't believe KnC have any malicious intent. That seems to be congruent with the opinion formed by those that actually met them WITH ORSoC's lead development present.

You've just jumped from thread to thread crying scam all day without having read up in anything.

You're entitled to your own opinion, sure, but it's ill informed, that's undeniable, based on your initial comment to this thread.

It would be unfortunate if there are any mistakes or delays, and laughing at people's misfortune is not cool.

One would assume from your authoritative sounding nickname that your are a voice of authority, then assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups, is it not? Roll Eyes

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idee2013
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June 07, 2013, 11:14:19 PM
 #2174

one question for bitcoinrama

are you on their payroll?

Nope. I just spent ages weighing up the odds on who to place my bets with.

Have you seen proof of KNCMiner & ORSoC partnership? If such proof doesn't exist, chance is high you will (hopefully) learn important lession here.

Yes, if you haven't where the hell have you been?!

That's quite a statement to make considering you were trolling Terrahash earlier today with coincidentally as much informed knowledge before typing your thoughts...

+1
wow, what are the people doing here?.....and  i get attacked, when i try to sell spots because peoples say that i have 0.0 work for it....you have to spent  extremly many hours and weeks to know that all by reading and searching things about KNC....
very impressive

It is expectable you'll +1 Bitcoinrama and anyone saying KNCMiner is legit, after all you have a stake in the deal yourself with 3 order spots.

What will be impressive is amount of cries once hundreds of you without any scam alarm end up scammed. I'll be around to laugh on you hard.


do you know what the real problem is? If  peoples still say, that all peolpes are scamming and all companies are not legit and do not allow one mind or more in the future that  poeples or companies could be legit, then mining and the bitcoin thing will be worth 0.0 in some days because bitcoin can't go under these circumstances to the mainstream.... Wink
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June 07, 2013, 11:26:54 PM
 #2175

This page looks so much better with Bitcoinrama, Bargraphics and idee2013 ignored. Goodbye, retards!

Sure the pleasure is all ours, it appears you don't like reading anyway, adiós! Kiss

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June 07, 2013, 11:37:34 PM
 #2176

....or use at least the search functionality here
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June 07, 2013, 11:38:33 PM
 #2177

cannot wait for the 7 days to be over so we can be done with this "pre-order" business.

If you can't understand the statement above, KnC said they are only allowing you to keep your "pre-order" Queue if you pay within 7 days of them opening the orderbook.

Tick Tock

I think pre-order ends Saturday at noon as I received their email at noon Monday 6/03. That or at least by Saturday night this thing is locked and real order numbers will be released on Monday.
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June 07, 2013, 11:41:27 PM
 #2178

cannot wait for the 7 days to be over so we can be done with this "pre-order" business.

If you can't understand the statement above, KnC said they are only allowing you to keep your "pre-order" Queue if you pay within 7 days of them opening the orderbook.

Tick Tock

I think pre-order ends Saturday at noon as I received their email at noon Monday 6/03. That or at least by Saturday night this thing is locked and real order numbers will be released on Monday.

Someone earlier posted a reply from Sam stating Mon at 6pm. Which would make sense as that is the last openday.

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June 07, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
 #2179

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

you need to get out more.. tell that to the waiting list for a tesla or a ferrari

or for certain preferred stock in a company...you really need to get off the training wheels of life



Please tell me what world do you live in where a couple of meaningless clicks on a website trumps cash? perhaps instead of telling me to take off the training wheels you should try them on yourself instead.

And as for your examples, if you you're going to walk into a Ferrari dealership and request to be put on a waiting list and pay nothing and expected to be honored you are absurdly wrong.and in regards to stocks the last time I checked you had to submit payment before they were awarded.not the other way around.

Your statement makes just about as much sense as asking a hooker not to sleep with anyone else till next weeks payday.  Cheesy
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June 08, 2013, 12:01:38 AM
 #2180

cannot wait for the 7 days to be over so we can be done with this "pre-order" business.

If you can't understand the statement above, KnC said they are only allowing you to keep your "pre-order" Queue if you pay within 7 days of them opening the orderbook.

Tick Tock

I think pre-order ends Saturday at noon as I received their email at noon Monday 6/03. That or at least by Saturday night this thing is locked and real order numbers will be released on Monday.

no i do not think so. have written an email to sam a few hours ago with the question of the deadline. normal time should be monday . 3th june 6pm CET + 7 days. but they should extend it how it was in their newletter because there were some shopsystem(bugs) and payment issues.

from the newsletter if someone did not get it:

Quote
Order books now open for payment

The order books are now open for the first time allowing full ordering and payment of the Jupiter and Saturn devices. Everyone already has their place in the queue so we are giving everyone 7 days to pay and maintain that place. If there are any technical issues with our website or payment portals over the next 7 days we will of course increase this period accordingly.  Once the 7 days are over we will provide everyone with their final shipping queue placement. We are able to ship hundreds of devices a week using the agreements we have in place with the factories so we still expect to be able to serve the vast majority of customers in September. Unlike others in this industry we will not be doing the assembly in house it will be done at the same professional assembly lines which ORSoC have been using for years.
visit www.kncminer.com for more info
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