Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[TLS freedom]

SOOO... I got a 39xx order number I guess I'm screwed now DAMMIT!! really mad at myself that I didn't do this weeks ago thought I had to wait! I hope they don't then want me to pay at the same time as 1-500 people that would be some BULL CRAP! I'll bet I'm going to receive next year sometime If I'm lucky.

I can't put $7000 on a card then have to wait 6 months plus for it, I don't know if this is even going to be an option for me now.

[1714157900]

1714157900

[1714157900]

1714157900

[bitpop]

Don't worry many people will fall out. Also how are you getting these numbers? I'm not getting any email.

[TLS freedom]

I placed an order for the Jupiter http://www.kncminer.com/products/jupiter just click preorder and fill out their silly little form and get a place next to me lol

I can't believe I screwed up this bad, a difference of like 6 months i'll bet to receive it. I subscribed to their newsletter 4/09/2013 not knowing there was line being formed, had I...

[TLS freedom]

This is a train wreck in slow motion, you can't have a line if people have not paid for a specific product. Look at the first post here by them, WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE DEAL!

Hi everybody,

We are Swedish miners that are producing our own ASIC miners to strengthen the market and avoid monopoly.
Our company kncminer is pleased to announce the opening of a brand new web shop dedicated to the online sale of Bitcoin hardware to the international community, www.kncminer.com.

A lot of scam sites are appearing every day and we are not one of them, therefore we will not take any orders and are only registering interest.

We will in the upcoming weeks opening our order book to allow the purchase of our first set of ASIC miners. They are in the early stages of development now and will be ready in the summer of 2013 (yes in just a few months)
Register an account now it’s completely free and if you subscribe to our newsletter we will alert you the moment we open the order books for entry and other information around the ASIC products.
If you have any questions we will be happy to answer them.

Happy mining

"therefore we will not take any orders and are only registering interest."

"We will in the upcoming weeks opening our order book to allow the purchase of our first set of ASIC miners."

The whole purchase thing was what I was waiting for! Stupid I know to go off what they wrote waiting to buy one to secure a place in line. Registering interest now we find out means securing a place in line?!? Mad 

[dan99]

SOOO... I got a 39xx order number I guess I'm screwed now DAMMIT!! really mad at myself that I didn't do this weeks ago thought I had to wait! I hope they don't then want me to pay at the same time as 1-500 people that would be some BULL CRAP! I'll bet I'm going to receive next year sometime If I'm lucky.

I can't put $7000 on a card then have to wait 6 months plus for it, I don't know if this is even going to be an option for me now.

Wow, I didn't know that their pre order has jump to the 4000 unit mark? I guess you are a few thousand unit or sets behind, if they
can do 50 sets or 100 sets a month, it may takes sometime to reach you, even at 300 sets a month will take a while and they also have
Saturn and Mars order to handle.. if they work 24/7 for a month non stop maybe they can speed things up.

[biganth]

Don't worry many people will fall out. Also how are you getting these numbers? I'm not getting any email.

I didn't get email either. I think we ordered from the newsletter link and were not logged in because I don't see the order in my account.

[TLS freedom]

I was logged in and it did not show up in my accounts order history.

[Rampion]

Does anyone know if they intend to honor positions in the pre-order "queues" they put in place from the beginning?
Thinking of these e-mails...

Order ID: 3xx
The desired goods: KNC Bitcoin miner numbers 1-500
Quantity: 4
Name of the customer: xxx xxx
Email: xxx@xxx.com
Phone: xxxxxxxx
Comments: ...

We definitely need more competition between ASIC manufacturer, so KnCMiner can only do good if they are a serious business with the required competences IMO.

Yes, I spoke with Sam and he told me they are definitely respecting the queue numbers. I have a super early preorder (order ID way below 100), and he told me that I would receive the units in that preorder in September. Additional units should be delivered in October.

really?  So what is this order for? 

Order ID: 39
The desired goods: KNC Bitcoin miner numbers 500 +
Quantity: 1
Name of the customer: xxx xxx
Email: xxx@xxx.com
Phone: xxxxxxxx
Comments: ...

For whatever you wish to order. They will respect your place in the queue.

Anyhow, nobody should panic. It sounds almost science-fiction, but they say that ALL the orders will be received by October. So, first 500 have no more than 1 month advantage, which is not such a huge difference.

Anyhow, all this is too good to be true. Just remember the huge problems BFL had. Everybody with working ASIC is using 110nm technology. This guys say they will develop 28nm technology and have the units tested and ready to ship by September. Even if they are in good faith, let's not forget that previous history teaches us that what they are pretending is a very difficult task, and that every other ASIC manufacturer incurred in delays.

[Tad3j]

RT seems to offer some decent coverage, BBC kindly offers a picture and a couple of paragraphs;

http://rt.com/news/sweden-riots-multiculturalism-not-working-598/

Haven't a clue how/if that affects them. It's a shame to see tbh as the last time I was in Sweden it was the archetype of a tolerant society. Still the media will portray an agenda they want to create...perhaps a local can divulge more?

In short, this is about social inequality and not about multiculturalism. More relevant though is that this should not (95% certainty, my opinion) in any way affect KNC.

I agree!

[Bitcoinorama]

Well this sucks I've been keeping an eye on KNC waiting to order early to get a good place in line. Now I come to find out that preorder has been on the whole time? All I had to do was fill out that form and I missed an early place in line as I didn't think It was getting in line... Really bummed now.

How are they making a line without taking money?

How have you been keeping an eye on KNC if you haven't been to their site and read anything?! It's clearly explained on their product pages, and in this thread the entire time, which they've updated...

On top of which you had to register for the newsletter that keeps you abreast of any further info.

[KS]

Sam Cole of Kennemar & Cole and KNCMINER AB clarified the directors' situation in email to me.

The first announce regarding the KnC registration number was for Kennemar & Cole AB (they had registered the KNCMINER name to "lock" it), not KNCMINER AB which is a company created LATER. The five quoted directors form ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB are part of KNCMINER AB (which I have not verified at this point...better things to do ATM).

Why they willfully gave the wrong company number and gave a link to a privately held website and called it "official" was not said.

They won't discuss funding either, other than say that Kennemar & Cole is generating sufficient money and that KNCMINER AB will send the profits back to ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB.

It is my understanding that they are more willing to incur debt than put enough capital in KNCMINER AB. Why they would do that was not said.

They expect to have a sufficient margin to cover the delayed VAT returns but did not go into details. Not much of an answer here.

In short, though I appreciate the time M. Cole took to answer my emails, we don't really know more and there is nothing in M. Cole's answers to make me change my previous "analysis" of a very shaky project, since they won't discuss actual numbers.

[Bitcoinorama]

Sam Cole of Kennemar & Cole and KNCMINER AB clarified the directors' situation in email to me.

The first announce regarding the KnC registration number was for Kennemar & Cole AB (they had registered the KNCMINER name to "lock" it), not KNCMINER AB which is a company created LATER. The five quoted directors form ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB are part of KNCMINER AB (which I have not verified at this point...better things to do ATM).

Why they willfully gave the wrong company number and gave a link to a privately held website and called it "official" was not said.

They won't discuss funding either, other than say that Kennemar & Cole is generating sufficient money and that KNCMINER AB will send the profits back to ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB.

It is my understanding that they are more willing to incur debt than put enough capital in KNCMINER AB. Why they would do that was not said.

They expect to have a sufficient margin to cover the delayed VAT returns but did not go into details. Not much of an answer here.

In short, though I appreciate the time M. Cole took to answer my emails, we don't really know more and there is nothing in M. Cole's answers to make me change my previous "analysis" of a very shaky project, since they won't discuss actual numbers.

Thanks for pursuing this and emailing. Is there anyway you can reiterate in a follow-up email for clarification? Or at least gain some perspective as to why they may not wish to discuss figures openly?

[KS]

Sam Cole of Kennemar & Cole and KNCMINER AB clarified the directors' situation in email to me.

The first announce regarding the KnC registration number was for Kennemar & Cole AB (they had registered the KNCMINER name to "lock" it), not KNCMINER AB which is a company created LATER. The five quoted directors form ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB are part of KNCMINER AB (which I have not verified at this point...better things to do ATM).

Why they willfully gave the wrong company number and gave a link to a privately held website and called it "official" was not said.

They won't discuss funding either, other than say that Kennemar & Cole is generating sufficient money and that KNCMINER AB will send the profits back to ORSoC and Kennemar & Cole AB.

It is my understanding that they are more willing to incur debt than put enough capital in KNCMINER AB. Why they would do that was not said.

They expect to have a sufficient margin to cover the delayed VAT returns but did not go into details. Not much of an answer here.

In short, though I appreciate the time M. Cole took to answer my emails, we don't really know more and there is nothing in M. Cole's answers to make me change my previous "analysis" of a very shaky project, since they won't discuss actual numbers.

Thanks for pursuing this and emailing. Is there anyway you can reiterate in a follow-up email for clarification? Or at least gain some perspective as to why they may not wish to discuss figures openly?

Well, let me put it this way: if you asked me to discuss the finances of my company, I would not answer you. My business is my business.

I cannot fault them for not willing to disclose the way they run their business, but given the few erroneous statements they made, their vague answers or dismissal of the questions, one might want more transparency in the process. They are avoiding the questions probably because they do not want to show how thin their company is. I'm sure they would have no problem disclosing the numbers, or some of them, if they had lots of money in the bank. Nothing new here. I just wish they'd come out and say it: "we're broke, but, pretty please, send us your money so we can finish this project". I value honesty a lot, alas it is not very common in the business world.

There is really nothing new going on, I'm waiting for the "open house" visit report but I wish they would disclose advancement a little bit. Also, I'd be wary about the lead times from the wafer factory. They haven't asked for money yet, meaning they are not about to order any wafers or FPGA's, so the late September/October date for the finished products seem to be slipping already.

I don't know their build capacity, but given the low numbers of the first batch, I doubt they can do both products shotgun style. It will probably be one after the other (again, speculating here). Avalon has a lot more money and they're still not shipping hundreds of products per month, because it's hard to setup a production line and size it properly to your market (and now they just won't do it, only sell chips).

[dan99]

Why no news on the prototype live demo?  at least they should announce them earlier

[stripykitteh]

I cannot fault them for not willing to disclose the way they run their business, but given the few erroneous statements they made, their vague answers or dismissal of the questions, one might want more transparency in the process. They are avoiding the questions probably because they do not want to show how thin their company is. I'm sure they would have no problem disclosing the numbers, or some of them, if they had lots of money in the bank. Nothing new here. I just wish they'd come out and say it: "we're broke, but, pretty please, send us your money so we can finish this project". I value honesty a lot, alas it is not very common in the business world.

I am interested in this company, but it seems that a model of being vague with customers when you have no assets and no product is not a winning strategy. They would have been better off seeking early-stage investment to get the ASIC to beta-stage rather than luring customers in with an FGPA miner, which will divert their efforts away from getting the ASIC right. Having said that, I did put my name down for a Mars the other day and if they do get that working to spec I'll buy it. But I fear it's costing them time.

[Bitcoinorama]

I cannot fault them for not willing to disclose the way they run their business, but given the few erroneous statements they made, their vague answers or dismissal of the questions, one might want more transparency in the process. They are avoiding the questions probably because they do not want to show how thin their company is. I'm sure they would have no problem disclosing the numbers, or some of them, if they had lots of money in the bank. Nothing new here. I just wish they'd come out and say it: "we're broke, but, pretty please, send us your money so we can finish this project". I value honesty a lot, alas it is not very common in the business world.

I am interested in this company, but it seems that a model of being vague with customers when you have no assets and no product is not a winning strategy. They would have been better off seeking early-stage investment to get the ASIC to beta-stage rather than luring customers in with an FGPA miner, which will divert their efforts away from getting the ASIC right. Having said that, I did put my name down for a Mars the other day and if they do get that working to spec I'll buy it. But I fear it's costing them time.

The FPGA is programable using software, the ASIC isn't. You use the FPGA to develop and refine a small batch and then copy the final design over to an ASIC. The ASIC is a semi-customised chip.

BFL, and Avalon, both had FPGAs prior, this is just a lot closer together.

[northcape]

I think the project is quite intriguing, but the price might just be too high.

Even in the very unlikely event that knc can ship a 350 gh/s device with a power consumption of 1-2 kw, difficulty will explode in late summer when all the Avalon-chip based devices come online.

Of course nobody can predict where the btc price will be at that point, but if it stays around 120$, I don’t think it'll be trivial to make that money back...

[Rampion]

I think the project is quite intriguing, but the price might just be too high.

Even in the very unlikely event that knc can ship a 350 gh/s device with a power consumption of 1-2 kw, difficulty will explode in late summer when all the Avalon-chip based devices come online.

Of course nobody can predict where the btc price will be at that point, but if it stays around 120$, I don’t think it'll be trivial to make that money back...

Price too high?

350gh/s for $7,000 is $20 x GHs. Please let me know ASAP about a single ASIC product with a better cost per GHs.

[northcape]

I think the project is quite intriguing, but the price might just be too high.

Even in the very unlikely event that knc can ship a 350 gh/s device with a power consumption of 1-2 kw, difficulty will explode in late summer when all the Avalon-chip based devices come online.

Of course nobody can predict where the btc price will be at that point, but if it stays around 120$, I don’t think it'll be trivial to make that money back...

Price too high?

350gh/s for $7,000 is $20 x GHs. Please let me know ASAP about a single ASIC product with a better cost per GHs.

Possibly the unannounced Avalon Gen 2?

[stripykitteh]

The FPGA is programable using software, the ASIC isn't. You use the FPGA to develop and refine a small batch and then copy the final design over to an ASIC. The ASIC is a semi-customised chip.

BFL, and Avalon, both had FPGAs prior, this is just a lot closer together.

Yeah, a lot closer together makes my point. They are going to do 2 productions runs of different products close together.