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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012834 times)
Bitcoinorama
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June 02, 2013, 08:12:26 PM
 #1601

it's been discussed countless times but there's going to be at least a tripling of hashrate before these units would arrive, maybe even 5x or higher (~262 TH/sec total from asicminer, and ~220 Th/sec from avalon chips, plus avalon batch units, plus whatever else)

Triple is nothing. At the current price/GHs you would do a HUGE profit with a Jupiter if the difficulty only went x3 by the moment you get it.

As it's scheduled for September/October, I would consider a difficulty of at least 70 million, and then an increase of at least x100 in the following 12 months (and I wouldn't be surprised by x300...)

If then diff. is any lower than that, better for everybody, but running simulations with anything lower 70m in October and x100 increase in the following 12 months is just absurd wishful thinking IMO.

To be honest, my concerns are the unknown identities Yifu mentioned in the background we don't know about.

Private equity that may have started development in February that we won't know about until they come online.

That is why it is so important we have as much legitimate competition in the open ASAP.

The Bitsyncom bulk chip purchase wallet had enough Bitcoins for 760,000 Avalon chips at their resale price last week.

We only know of a handful of 10k purchases from this forum alone. Who else are they selling to??
Um there are a shit load of group orders spread across maybe a dozen people, i haven't run the numbers but I think more chips are accounted for as open buys than as not

@10,000 chips per group buy that = a potential 76 group buys!!!

Jspielberg was the forum member that confirmed this...

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June 02, 2013, 08:28:17 PM
 #1602

it's been discussed countless times but there's going to be at least a tripling of hashrate before these units would arrive, maybe even 5x or higher (~262 TH/sec total from asicminer, and ~220 Th/sec from avalon chips, plus avalon batch units, plus whatever else)

Triple is nothing. At the current price/GHs you would do a HUGE profit with a Jupiter if the difficulty only went x3 by the moment you get it.

As it's scheduled for September/October, I would consider a difficulty of at least 70 million, and then an increase of at least x100 in the following 12 months (and I wouldn't be surprised by x300...)

If then diff. is any lower than that, better for everybody, but running simulations with anything lower 70m in October and x100 increase in the following 12 months is just absurd wishful thinking IMO.

To be honest, my concerns are the unknown identities Yifu mentioned in the background we don't know about.

Private equity that may have started development in February that we won't know about until they come online.

That is why it is so important we have as much legitimate competition in the open ASAP.

The Bitsyncom bulk chip purchase wallet had enough Bitcoins for 760,000 Avalon chips at their resale price last week.

We only know of a handful of 10k purchases from this forum alone. Who else are they selling to??
Um there are a shit load of group orders spread across maybe a dozen people, i haven't run the numbers but I think more chips are accounted for as open buys than as not

@10,000 chips per group buy that = a potential 76 group buys!!!

Jspielberg was the forum member that confirmed this...

There were group buy who did multiple orders (I think one of those did as much of 7 or 8 orders)... And you can b sure that the vast majority of the individuals who bought the chips for their own use are not advertising it on the forums.

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June 02, 2013, 09:17:52 PM
 #1603

@10,000 chips per group buy that = a potential 76 group buys!!!

Jspielberg was the forum member that confirmed this...
I'd assume about 200-400k are from group buys and another 150k from companies that plan to sell assembled units with a 200% profit margin.
Isn't it irrelevant though? We know that there are 760k chips being made and added to the network around August, that's all that matters when making projections. What is much more of an issue is whether BFL ships and to what ends; additionally if there are any other manufacturers/groups working in the background that add a lot of units.
I tried calculating ROI with 100 and 200m difficulty, that's where I expect it to be around October; but then it's all worthless anyway, it's pretty much impossible to project ROI since the price is going up and down all the time and the smallest news leave a huge impact. You can make estimates of difficulty but by the time KnCMiner ships the BTC price could be anywhere between $.1 and $600, and this is true all the same after you receive the miner, but it has an even worse effect; if BTC crashes then, you have no possibility of getting your money back.
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June 02, 2013, 09:21:20 PM
 #1604

I have a small number like 5@@ if someone want I can sell it
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June 02, 2013, 09:44:46 PM
 #1605

@10,000 chips per group buy that = a potential 76 group buys!!!

Jspielberg was the forum member that confirmed this...
I'd assume about 200-400k are from group buys and another 150k from companies that plan to sell assembled units with a 200% profit margin.
Isn't it irrelevant though? We know that there are 760k chips being made and added to the network around August, that's all that matters when making projections. What is much more of an issue is whether BFL ships and to what ends; additionally if there are any other manufacturers/groups working in the background that add a lot of units.
I tried calculating ROI with 100 and 200m difficulty, that's where I expect it to be around October; but then it's all worthless anyway, it's pretty much impossible to project ROI since the price is going up and down all the time and the smallest news leave a huge impact. You can make estimates of difficulty but by the time KnCMiner ships the BTC price could be anywhere between $.1 and $600, and this is true all the same after you receive the miner, but it has an even worse effect; if BTC crashes then, you have no possibility of getting your money back.

Dude, there's also ASICminer for sure, potentially Bitfury as well.

BTC price I see floating between $100 and €100. Until they break through another psychologically important milestone. Perhaps --> ASICs --> more confidence investing in the currency because of a more secure and efficient network --> more vendors and merchants excepting the money transfer --> consumer confidence/interest --> etc.

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June 02, 2013, 10:35:06 PM
 #1606

Dude, there's also ASICminer for sure, potentially Bitfury as well.

BTC price I see floating between $100 and €100. Until they break through another psychologically important milestone. Perhaps --> ASICs --> more confidence investing in the currency because of a more secure and efficient network --> more vendors and merchants excepting the money transfer --> consumer confidence/interest --> etc.
I know about those two, but neither of those will have as big of an impact as BFL would if they actually fulfilled a large portion of their orders. Of course saying that that's highly unlikely is an understatement.

I don't really expect ASICs to increase confidence though, if anything, the relative stability of the btc price might do it. Of course, if nothing horrible happens in the coming months to bitcoin, it's definitely not going to drop too much either way.
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June 03, 2013, 12:30:00 AM
 #1607

qq: what is Sam's Email? The one of the site (info@...?)

=

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Bitcoinorama
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June 03, 2013, 12:37:40 AM
 #1608

qq: what is Sam's Email? The one of the site (info@...?)

It's on everyone of his recent posts. Wink

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June 03, 2013, 08:16:08 AM
 #1609

Is the Mars unit gone from their pages? It's not showing up on my end.
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners
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June 03, 2013, 08:21:12 AM
 #1610

Is the Mars unit gone from their pages? It's not showing up on my end.
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners

Yep, same here. I guess only a limited number of units are needed to add confidence that they are serious...

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June 03, 2013, 08:22:08 AM
 #1611

Is the Mars unit gone from their pages? It's not showing up on my end.
https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners

Yes, it also appears you can no longer pre-order...

The site has 'add to cart', and 'checkout' functions, but adding to cart is not quite functioning yet...

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June 03, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
 #1612

Front page has had one of the three sliders how images removed, though the Mars prototype picture is there.

FAQ harps had an update, mentioning ex-VAT in pricing and office location (the same as the ORSoC Stockholm HQ);

KnCMiner AB
Regeringsgatan 111
111 39 Stockholm, Sweden
Org number: 556931-9725

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June 03, 2013, 08:27:13 AM
 #1613

Yes, it also appears you can no longer pre-order...

The site has 'add to cart', and 'checkout' functions, but adding to cart is not quite functioning yet...
Indeed, it has a few flaws. I suppose they want to open orders sometime around the open days.
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June 03, 2013, 08:33:42 AM
 #1614

Yes, it also appears you can no longer pre-order...

The site has 'add to cart', and 'checkout' functions, but adding to cart is not quite functioning yet...
Indeed, it has a few flaws. I suppose they want to open orders sometime around the open days.

Yeah it's a bit glitchy it goes from, shipping cart empty, to having an orders, to empty, in any case nothing to pay. The checkout gives a choice of UPS courier; $240.80 for next day delivery to the UK, or 'Stockholm Pickup' $0, as the delivery options.

Bank Transfer, Paypal and Bitpay appear to be the payment options...

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June 03, 2013, 08:39:20 AM
 #1615

And following through to PayPal Payment, this is what is presented. And THAT is what it should be:

Quote
    Item total $5,596.00
    Tax $1,399.00
    Shipping and handling: $124.00

    Total $7,119.00 USD
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June 03, 2013, 08:44:47 AM
 #1616

And following through to PayPal Payment, this is what is presented. And THAT is what it should be:

Quote
    Item total $5,596.00
    Tax $1,399.00
    Shipping and handling: $124.00

    Total $7,119.00 USD

Sorry for what have you attempted to order? The site seems too glitchy to be open for real orders...

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June 03, 2013, 08:50:54 AM
 #1617

And following through to PayPal Payment, this is what is presented. And THAT is what it should be:

Quote
   Item total $5,596.00
    Tax $1,399.00
    Shipping and handling: $124.00

    Total $7,119.00 USD

Sorry for what have you attempted to order? The site seems too glitchy to be open for real orders...

A Jupiter ...
 5596.00 + 1399.00 = 6995.00 The advertised price ie. VAT included  Angry
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June 03, 2013, 09:02:34 AM
 #1618

A Jupiter ...
 5596.00 + 1399.00 = 6995.00 The advertised price ie. VAT included  Angry

You must be doing something wrong :



Anyways, order went through. And it seems they started at #1 again.
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June 03, 2013, 09:03:52 AM
 #1619

And following through to PayPal Payment, this is what is presented. And THAT is what it should be:

Quote
   Item total $5,596.00
    Tax $1,399.00
    Shipping and handling: $124.00

    Total $7,119.00 USD

Sorry for what have you attempted to order? The site seems too glitchy to be open for real orders...

A Jupiter ...
 5596.00 + 1399.00 = 6995.00 The advertised price ie. VAT included  Angry

I know I've emailed about this, and the basket glitches. I was wondering if the price stated was to include VAT originally...

EDIT: MAT542, odd...I also was given a no-vat price at completion....still don't understand the pre-ordering?! Presumably none of this is complete and live?

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June 03, 2013, 09:15:33 AM
 #1620

And following through to PayPal Payment, this is what is presented. And THAT is what it should be:

Quote
   Item total $5,596.00
    Tax $1,399.00
    Shipping and handling: $124.00

    Total $7,119.00 USD

Sorry for what have you attempted to order? The site seems too glitchy to be open for real orders...

A Jupiter ...
 5596.00 + 1399.00 = 6995.00 The advertised price ie. VAT included  Angry

I know I've emailed about this, and the basket glitches. I was wondering if the price stated was to include VAT originally...




EDIT: MAT542, odd...I also was given a no-vat price at completion....still don't understand the pre-ordering?! Presumably none of this is complete and live?


I believe that the price did include VAT originally. KNC picked up the "enthusiasm" and decided to add that later. Think about it...on all mining rig sales, do you see prices listed without VAT or targeted at "professional miners" only? I would still like to know how many of KNC's orders are from "professional miners"  Huh
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