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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007386 times)
ecliptic
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May 29, 2013, 12:39:47 AM
 #1501

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Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today
i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...
Agreed, this is not a "get ASIC now and get rich while diff is low" buy.  This is a long term buy based on 28nm power efficiency.  hashrate will be nowhere close to 100TH/sec when even the first 500 ship.  besides 215 TH from avalon chips, there is asicminer adding 262 TH themselves.  plus BFL and others, and these chips themselves

this is good for ASIC diversity.
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May 29, 2013, 07:33:17 AM
 #1502

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Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today
i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...

Jupiter and Saturn will not arrive before the Avalon chips are deployed. Those chips will be on the network at the end of July, mid August the latest.

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May 29, 2013, 09:03:40 AM
 #1503

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm
According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.
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May 29, 2013, 09:07:13 AM
 #1504

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...

Jupiter and Saturn will not arrive before the Avalon chips are deployed. Those chips will be on the network at the end of July, mid August the latest.
But after that, we don't know how long it will take for people to get their chips going, how many will just lie unused etc. I bet a few jumped on a batch and won't really know what to do with their chips when they arrive  Cheesy
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May 29, 2013, 09:09:43 AM
 #1505

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?
ujka
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May 29, 2013, 09:32:54 AM
 #1506

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?
Only a picture https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214285.0 of a blade with 6 FPGA chips.
(With a fan on each? Could't they come up with a more efficient solution? Full miner having 8 blades, that's 48 fans.)
There is also an invitation to 'open day' for a demonstration of that FPGA miner, but date not set.
And somewhat unconvincing webpage.
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May 29, 2013, 09:49:55 AM
 #1507

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?
Only a picture https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=214285.0 of a blade with 6 FPGA chips.
(With a fan on each? Could't they come up with a more efficient solution? Full miner having 8 blades, that's 48 fans.)
There is also an invitation to 'open day' for a demonstration of that FPGA miner, but date not set.
And somewhat unconvincing webpage.

Exactly! I have Enterpoint's cairnsmore's with 4 fpga chips and a SINGLE FAN. They draw ~40 watts, hash at ~800Mh/s and they run and run and run and run without a hint of overheating....

http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1_support_materials.html

dan99
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May 29, 2013, 10:07:37 AM
 #1508

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?

You have 25 post and this thread already has 77 pages off course it is legit .. probably this week they will show the live demo of the Mars Miner with photo and Video. There will be an open day/house for those who are interested to visit their facility .. Smiley
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May 29, 2013, 10:08:49 AM
 #1509

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm
According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.
Also, in most EU countries maximum delivery period established by the law is 30 days.
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May 29, 2013, 10:13:30 AM
 #1510

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?

You have 25 post and this thread already has 77 pages off course it is legit .. probably this week they will show the live demo of the Mars Miner with photo and Video. There will be an open day/house for those who are interested to visit their facility .. Smiley

What has my post count got to do with this? Please enlighten me. And just because a thread has 77 pages of posts does NOT mean it is legitimate. I read about 50 pages and still couldn't make my mind up.
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May 29, 2013, 10:45:36 AM
 #1511

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?

You have 25 post and this thread already has 77 pages off course it is legit .. probably this week they will show the live demo of the Mars Miner with photo and Video. There will be an open day/house for those who are interested to visit their facility .. Smiley

What has my post count got to do with this? Please enlighten me. And just because a thread has 77 pages of posts does NOT mean it is legitimate. I read about 50 pages and still couldn't make my mind up.

If they're "off course legit", it prolly means they'll pull a BFL Grin

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
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May 29, 2013, 11:18:28 AM
 #1512

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm
According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.
Also, in most EU countries maximum delivery period established by the law is 30 days.

This was also touched upon in an email convo with Sam I had posted here before;

Consumers inside the EU

This one is messy😊 every country has a limit of how much we can sell to residents of that country without having to register locally for VAT there. For Example. The UK has 70,000 EUR limit. So if I ship goods to the UK and the total yearly amount is under 70,000 I charge Swedish vat and give the money to the Swedish government. But as soon as I'm one cent over. I have to have a UK vat number and fill out a vat return in the UK and pay all of the VAT I collect to the UK government.

There is a different amount for every country and it gets quite complex quite quickly as you can imagine.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp
canth
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May 29, 2013, 11:21:26 AM
 #1513

Really can't afford the time to read through like 77 pages of posts in this thread. But have we decided if it's legit or not? Any concrete proof given yet?

You have 25 post and this thread already has 77 pages off course it is legit .. probably this week they will show the live demo of the Mars Miner with photo and Video. There will be an open day/house for those who are interested to visit their facility .. Smiley

What has my post count got to do with this? Please enlighten me. And just because a thread has 77 pages of posts does NOT mean it is legitimate. I read about 50 pages and still couldn't make my mind up.

You're not really asking if they're legit or not are you? BFL is legitimate - they have an established product and now working demo models. It doesn't mean that they delivered on time or in meaningful capacity. Customer service is another story entirely.

If you're asking whether they'll deliver a product in a reasonable period of time, all we can do is speculate. Are they legit? It appears to be so. Will they deliver a working product? Your guess is as good as mine. Will it ship on time? Doubtful, but that doesn't mean that many of us won't give them a shot. After all, what are your other options?

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May 29, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
 #1514

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm
According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.
Also, in most EU countries maximum delivery period established by the law is 30 days.

This was also touched upon in an email convo with Sam I had posted here before;

Consumers inside the EU

This one is messy😊 every country has a limit of how much we can sell to residents of that country without having to register locally for VAT there. For Example. The UK has 70,000 EUR limit. So if I ship goods to the UK and the total yearly amount is under 70,000 I charge Swedish vat and give the money to the Swedish government. But as soon as I'm one cent over. I have to have a UK vat number and fill out a vat return in the UK and pay all of the VAT I collect to the UK government.

There is a different amount for every country and it gets quite complex quite quickly as you can imagine.


I wonder how the Googles and Skypes of the world get away with the 15% Irish VAT only (or is it "only"?).

Get a wholesaler, give them the usual 3.5% and let them deal with VAT? Bonus: they're experts at logistics (sth a startup is not - check BFL/Avalon).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
ujka
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May 29, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
 #1515

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm
According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.
Also, in most EU countries maximum delivery period established by the law is 30 days.

This was also touched upon in an email convo with Sam I had posted here before;
Apologies. I obviously 'scanned' too fast through your previous message (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg2157223#msg2157223).

Selling big in EU requires a lot of organization and knowledge if not to break some specific country law (out of 27!).
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May 29, 2013, 04:26:23 PM
 #1516

One thing that concerns me is the language used around mars voucher system -

"Upgrade protection built in to any purchase with vouchers for up to $2000 off of any Jupiter purchase"

What exactly does "up to" mean, they could turn around and give you $100 off a Jupiter and still be accurate to their description.

I think the whole voucher and pre order system needs to be fully clarified before everyone starts throwing money at them, me included Wink





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bitpop
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May 29, 2013, 04:39:28 PM
 #1517

This is way too shady now with fpgas. Their numbers don't make sense. They can barely make a giant lancelot when all the work has already been done for them. No way in hell are they making asics. If they were capable of making asics they wouldn't be wasting time on giant lancelots. That 48 board will take 1000 watts to power it.

Blackarrow is the fpga expert who I just received lancelot clones from. I'll ask them for their opinion. China is a hussle and these guys are completely in the mix.

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May 29, 2013, 04:51:34 PM
 #1518

only 24 chips in the pic above, should be 48?





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SuperNET.org
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DECENTRALIZED CRYPTOCURRENCY EXCHANGE
Developed to Unite Coin Communities | ✔ SECURE ✔ FREE ✔ VISIBILITY ✔ EASY INTEGRATION |

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

KS
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May 29, 2013, 04:52:42 PM
 #1519

only 24 chips in the pic above?

+1

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
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May 29, 2013, 04:53:06 PM
 #1520

This is way too shady now with fpgas. Their numbers don't make sense. They can barely make a giant lancelot when all the work has already been done for them. No way in hell are they making asics. If they were capable of making asics they wouldn't be wasting time on giant lancelots. That 48 board will take 1000 watts to power it.

Blackarrow is the fpga expert who I just received lancelot clones from. I'll ask them for their opinion. China is a hussle and these guys are completely in the mix.

These guys? http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/
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