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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007766 times)
Bitcoinorama
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May 31, 2013, 10:23:21 AM
 #1561

The system will calculate your country's VAT, so you will charge only 19%

*ONLY* if KnC has a GERMAN VAT number.

In this case, you must pay the Swedish VAT of 25%.

You have the option of collecting the equipment in Sweden, getting the VAT return forms at any Swedish customs "exit point" and THEN you need to import it in Germany and pay the 19% VAT that is due.

This will end up costing you more than simply swallowing the 6% difference.

Alternatively, you can have a German VAT-registered company/ indivdual buy it for you VAT-free and then re-invoice it to you with 19% VAT.
(this works for any other EU country and possibly Switzerland too)

Well, a couple of days ago they were testing the order books and the payment process - I made a test order, and I can guarantee you that the system charged me for <MY COUNTRY> VAT, which is lower than 25%.


Once you log I into 'my account' you can select your country from a list mentioned in a drop down box.

Select 'Germany' in your case and the final sales price is individualised for your country.

So yes you will only pay 19%, however should you have a friend living in Switzerland...

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May 31, 2013, 10:25:32 AM
 #1562

The system will calculate your country's VAT, so you will charge only 19%

*ONLY* if KnC has a GERMAN VAT number.

In this case, you must pay the Swedish VAT of 25%.

You have the option of collecting the equipment in Sweden, getting the VAT return forms at any Swedish customs "exit point" and THEN you need to import it in Germany and pay the 19% VAT that is due.

This will end up costing you more than simply swallowing the 6% difference.

Alternatively, you can have a German VAT-registered company/ indivdual buy it for you VAT-free and then re-invoice it to you with 19% VAT.
(this works for any other EU country and possibly Switzerland too)

Well, a couple of days ago they were testing the order books and the payment process - I made a test order, and I can guarantee you that the system charged me for <MY COUNTRY> VAT, which is lower than 25%.

I'm not saying they didn't do it. I'm saying they need to be registered in your country to be able to apply your country VAT.

Say you're from Luxembourg and they don't have a Lux VAT (15%), you're s.o.l. and need to pay the Swedish 25% VAT.

Maybe they're registered for VAT in your country (or maybe they'll be running into tons of "administrative" problems later on...).

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May 31, 2013, 10:27:03 AM
 #1563

Quote

Well, a couple of days ago they were testing the order books and the payment process - I made a test order, and I can guarantee you that the system charged me for <MY COUNTRY> VAT, which is lower than 25%.


This is shown in this table, they have to do it this way, if knc want to export for example to germany  goods over the 100000€ limit
http://www.hk24.de/recht_und_steuern/steuerrecht/umsatzsteuer_mehrwertsteuer/umsatzsteuer_mehrwertsteuer_international/367108/Lieferschwellen.html

http://www.hk24.de/international/export/exportvorschriften/binnenmarkt_eu_vorschriften/367200/umsatzsteueridentnummer.html

this links are for germans
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May 31, 2013, 10:37:41 AM
 #1564

Check the EU's website instead:

Distance selling: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/distance_selling/index_en.htm

Where to tax: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/vat_on_services/index_en.htm
(you'll also find a link to the VAT thresholds annex there)

General overview VAT: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/

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May 31, 2013, 11:07:05 AM
 #1565


thanks for the links they are very useful !

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May 31, 2013, 11:55:01 AM
 #1566

I'm going to re-post this here from the 'Open-day' thread because it's useful, was a good find, and saves a lot of question repetition:

Is the change in payment logos something to be concerned about regarding the credibility of the company?

Not necessarily, probably means they are changing payment methods. Just Visa and MasterCard (Credit) should be the preferred payment methods for safe purchases as they have the greatest buyer protection and assume the risk themselves it gout putting the buyer or the seller in jeopardy...

Can't rem if I saw Discover and Amex listed before, but the both charge a lot more fee wise, especially American Express, around double, which is why retailers hate them.

If there's any confusion, this is the contact for Visa card purchases In Sweden, she can confirm any buyer protection queries;

Contact: Ellen Hellstadius, MS&L - Visa Europe Email: ellen.hellstadius@mslpr.se
Tel: +46 70555 31 36

Her contact was taken from this, whilst it concerns fraudulent card usage, she is still the best point of contact;

http://www.visa.se/se/press/idoc.ashx?docid=cc209ea2-b18c-454d-b89c-403be91bcb9d&version=-1

Also general consumer advice for purchases in Sweden and another contact;

Konsument Europa
e-mail address: info@konsumenteuropa.se telephone: 08-429 07 80
week days 09:00-13:00 www.konsumenteuropa.se

http://www.konsumentverket.se/Global/Konsumentverket.se/Beställa%20och%20ladda%20ner/Broschyrer/Dokument/kis_engelska_06.pdf

More general Swedish consumer e-commerce rights;

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/en/Topics/E-commerce/E-commerce-within-the-EU/Your-rights-when-shopping-online/

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May 31, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
 #1567

Sorry, but the VAT question is a little bit unclear for me. I think that i have read the whole thread, but it could be that i have over read someting.
In sweden ther is a vat of 25% and in germany there is a vat(mwst) of 19%.
And the 6% are a few hundred USD or EUR in case of the jupiter for example.
How can germans get the 6% back? Have a german buyer to submit something to the german customs or will KNC collect the total VAT amount  according the receiver country at the payment and order process?


Pretty much this:

It's really not that complicated:

1/ you are a EU resident without a VAT number -> you pay the VAT

2/ you are a EU resident/business with a VAT number
    A/ you are in the same country as the seller -> you pay the VAT but get it back with the tax return
    B/ you are not in the same country -> you do not pay the VAT (Intra-EU sale)

3/ you are not in the EU -> you do not pay the VAT

4/ you are a tourist but do not reside in the EU -> you pay the VAT but can get it back, say at the airport, when you leave the country.

sorry, but u don't unterstand my question. I know that i have to pay the vat without a resident vat number.
But in germany there is a vat of "only" 19% and not 25%....so i have to pay 6% less vat. so when i travel with my car to sweden and i buy someting there i have to pay the 25% vat first . When i leave the sweden country,  i get the 25% back from the swedish customs control and 100 meters forward i have to pay 19% vat at the german customs control when the worth of the goods is high.

How it goes at online transactions now?

The system will calculate your country's VAT, so you will charge only 19%

This is not true, as the owner must pay his VAT in his country. If you are in germany and sell to sweeden you can't charge 25% VAT.
In order to compensate the 6% VAT your country must have a reciprocity arrangement with the sellers country.
If it is between EU the claims for reimbursement can be submitted electronically to the authority of the State of the seller, so only the seller can ask this to the Finance Ministry from his country.

And the fact that the system charged your country's VAT it is not legal. They do not pay VAT to Germany, as they pay it to Swedish gov, and they can't pay 19% if the gov established 25% VAT, as the gov will lose the 6%.
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May 31, 2013, 03:38:44 PM
 #1568

Sorry, but the VAT question is a little bit unclear for me. I think that i have read the whole thread, but it could be that i have over read someting.
In sweden ther is a vat of 25% and in germany there is a vat(mwst) of 19%.
And the 6% are a few hundred USD or EUR in case of the jupiter for example.
How can germans get the 6% back? Have a german buyer to submit something to the german customs or will KNC collect the total VAT amount  according the receiver country at the payment and order process?


Pretty much this:

It's really not that complicated:

1/ you are a EU resident without a VAT number -> you pay the VAT

2/ you are a EU resident/business with a VAT number
    A/ you are in the same country as the seller -> you pay the VAT but get it back with the tax return
    B/ you are not in the same country -> you do not pay the VAT (Intra-EU sale)

3/ you are not in the EU -> you do not pay the VAT

4/ you are a tourist but do not reside in the EU -> you pay the VAT but can get it back, say at the airport, when you leave the country.

sorry, but u don't unterstand my question. I know that i have to pay the vat without a resident vat number.
But in germany there is a vat of "only" 19% and not 25%....so i have to pay 6% less vat. so when i travel with my car to sweden and i buy someting there i have to pay the 25% vat first . When i leave the sweden country,  i get the 25% back from the swedish customs control and 100 meters forward i have to pay 19% vat at the german customs control when the worth of the goods is high.

How it goes at online transactions now?

The system will calculate your country's VAT, so you will charge only 19%

This is not true, as the owner must pay his VAT in his country. If you are in germany and sell to sweeden you can't charge 25% VAT.
In order to compensate the 6% VAT your country must have a reciprocity arrangement with the sellers country.
If it is between EU the claims for reimbursement can be submitted electronically to the authority of the State of the seller, so only the seller can ask this to the Finance Ministry from his country.

And the fact that the system charged your country's VAT it is not legal. They do not pay VAT to Germany, as they pay it to Swedish gov, and they can't pay 19% if the gov established 25% VAT, as the gov will lose the 6%.

I believe there is a threshold (in the UK if you generate above €70,000 sales imported to the UK), where upon the company has to register a VAT number for that EU member state. There after they charge the EU member state's own VAT. It's to do with the EU's trade agreement. Outside Europe they pay none, just import duty is added their side on arrival.  

Courtesy of HMRC;

VAT registration threshold for distance selling

If the annual value of your distance sales into the UK and the Isle of Man is no more than £70,000 (known as the 'distance selling threshold'), then you charge VAT on your VAT taxable sales at the rate that applies in your own country. You account for it there too. This threshold is currently £70,000.

If the value of your distance sales goes over the threshold then you have to register for UK VAT. You then charge VAT on your VAT taxable sales at the UK rate instead of using your own country's rate and account for it here.

Even if you don't have to register for UK VAT as a distance seller, you can apply to register voluntarily.

If you distance sell excise goods like alcohol and tobacco then you'll have to register for UK VAT and Excise Duty no matter how much your sales are worth.


http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm

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KS
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May 31, 2013, 06:42:54 PM
 #1569

Sorry, but the VAT question is a little bit unclear for me. I think that i have read the whole thread, but it could be that i have over read someting.
In sweden ther is a vat of 25% and in germany there is a vat(mwst) of 19%.
And the 6% are a few hundred USD or EUR in case of the jupiter for example.
How can germans get the 6% back? Have a german buyer to submit something to the german customs or will KNC collect the total VAT amount  according the receiver country at the payment and order process?


Pretty much this:

It's really not that complicated:

1/ you are a EU resident without a VAT number -> you pay the VAT

2/ you are a EU resident/business with a VAT number
    A/ you are in the same country as the seller -> you pay the VAT but get it back with the tax return
    B/ you are not in the same country -> you do not pay the VAT (Intra-EU sale)

3/ you are not in the EU -> you do not pay the VAT

4/ you are a tourist but do not reside in the EU -> you pay the VAT but can get it back, say at the airport, when you leave the country.

sorry, but u don't unterstand my question. I know that i have to pay the vat without a resident vat number.
But in germany there is a vat of "only" 19% and not 25%....so i have to pay 6% less vat. so when i travel with my car to sweden and i buy someting there i have to pay the 25% vat first . When i leave the sweden country,  i get the 25% back from the swedish customs control and 100 meters forward i have to pay 19% vat at the german customs control when the worth of the goods is high.

How it goes at online transactions now?

The system will calculate your country's VAT, so you will charge only 19%

This is not true, as the owner must pay his VAT in his country. If you are in germany and sell to sweeden you can't charge 25% VAT.
In order to compensate the 6% VAT your country must have a reciprocity arrangement with the sellers country.
If it is between EU the claims for reimbursement can be submitted electronically to the authority of the State of the seller, so only the seller can ask this to the Finance Ministry from his country.

And the fact that the system charged your country's VAT it is not legal. They do not pay VAT to Germany, as they pay it to Swedish gov, and they can't pay 19% if the gov established 25% VAT, as the gov will lose the 6%.

They cannot unless they also have a VAT number in the other country.

I had just posted the links a few posts before:

Distance selling: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/distance_selling/index_en.htm

Where to tax: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/vat_on_services/index_en.htm
(you'll also find a link to the VAT thresholds annex there)

General overview VAT: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/

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List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
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May 31, 2013, 07:41:14 PM
 #1570

Maybe is possible for the pay in btc a different value to be used for the vat.
Lower value = lower Vat
For btc only Smiley
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May 31, 2013, 11:07:41 PM
 #1571

all this vat talk is reminding me of the mtic fraud that is so lucrative and fairly easy if you know the right people Roll Eyes
any hooo i hope purchases made with bitcoin don't have vat on it as it isn't offcially accepted/valued by most governments  Cheesy Grin

1 satoshi = £1
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June 01, 2013, 01:32:38 AM
 #1572


HI GUYS

is there any chance that we get delivered before this post reaches 800 pages?

thanks

 Roll Eyes



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June 01, 2013, 08:42:30 AM
 #1573

should be soon, i think Wink
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June 01, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
 #1574

From the 'open day' thread, just posted:



Re: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June

Today at 04:21:33 PM
  #310


Hi All

OK so we are ready for the open day I know you have all been waiting but we wanted to make sure everything was 100% ready and today I can confirm it is.

Because we have had so much interest we are actually going to do 4 sessions. Two on Wednesday 5th, one at 10:00am and one at 2:00pm. Then two more on Monday 10th at 10:00am and 2:00pm

They will all be the same in content and you can meet us and ask any questions you like. We will demo the Mars mining rig with all 8 blades hashing away to the public pools.

It will be held at ORSoC's Stockholm office

ORSoC
Regeringsgatan 111
111 39 Stockholm, Sweden

We will send this out in a newsletter on Monday to catch the people who wont have a chance to read this post.

Thanks
Sam
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Kncminer

kncminer.com

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June 01, 2013, 04:39:02 PM
 #1575

From the 'open day' thread, just posted:



Re: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June

Today at 04:21:33 PM
  #310


Hi All

OK so we are ready for the open day I know you have all been waiting but we wanted to make sure everything was 100% ready and today I can confirm it is.

Because we have had so much interest we are actually going to do 4 sessions. Two on Wednesday 5th, one at 10:00am and one at 2:00pm. Then two more on Monday 10th at 10:00am and 2:00pm

They will all be the same in content and you can meet us and ask any questions you like. We will demo the Mars mining rig with all 8 blades hashing away to the public pools.

It will be held at ORSoC's Stockholm office

ORSoC
Regeringsgatan 111
111 39 Stockholm, Sweden

We will send this out in a newsletter on Monday to catch the people who wont have a chance to read this post.

Thanks
Sam
Report to moderator  
Best regards

Kncminer

kncminer.com



ditto

Sam

Best regards

Kncminer

kncminer.com
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June 01, 2013, 04:55:49 PM
 #1576

Sorry, but when organisations put text like this: "This device will be the first mass produced product and available for purchase in the next few days." on their website, one should question their credibility. The "next few days" in relation to when, exactly? 

Vires in numeris
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June 01, 2013, 05:22:17 PM
 #1577

One thing that concerns me is the language used around mars voucher system -

"Upgrade protection built in to any purchase with vouchers for up to $2000 off of any Jupiter purchase"

What exactly does "up to" mean, they could turn around and give you $100 off a Jupiter and still be accurate to their description.

I think the whole voucher and pre order system needs to be fully clarified before everyone starts throwing money at them, me included Wink


I have a spot in the 1-500 list, but this above needs clarifying before I can make any decisions.

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June 01, 2013, 05:42:25 PM
 #1578

From the 'open day' thread, just posted:



Re: KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June

Today at 04:21:33 PM
  #310


Hi All

OK so we are ready for the open day I know you have all been waiting but we wanted to make sure everything was 100% ready and today I can confirm it is.

Because we have had so much interest we are actually going to do 4 sessions. Two on Wednesday 5th, one at 10:00am and one at 2:00pm. Then two more on Monday 10th at 10:00am and 2:00pm

They will all be the same in content and you can meet us and ask any questions you like. We will demo the Mars mining rig with all 8 blades hashing away to the public pools.

It will be held at ORSoC's Stockholm office

ORSoC
Regeringsgatan 111
111 39 Stockholm, Sweden

We will send this out in a newsletter on Monday to catch the people who wont have a chance to read this post.

Thanks
Sam
Report to moderator  
Best regards

Kncminer

kncminer.com



ditto

Sam

about time for them to show off their Mars FPGA 8 Blade Miner .. enjoy
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June 01, 2013, 06:55:55 PM
 #1579

One thing that concerns me is the language used around mars voucher system -

"Upgrade protection built in to any purchase with vouchers for up to $2000 off of any Jupiter purchase"

What exactly does "up to" mean, they could turn around and give you $100 off a Jupiter and still be accurate to their description.

I think the whole voucher and pre order system needs to be fully clarified before everyone starts throwing money at them, me included Wink


I have a spot in the 1-500 list, but this above needs clarifying before I can make any decisions.

i concur.

this "up to 2000" has always bothered me because of its ambiguity. when are you entitled to get a full 2000$ voucher?  Because it seems that situations where you will get less than 2k would exist. Am I right? 

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June 01, 2013, 07:20:02 PM
 #1580

You get 2000$ discount. It has been already said in this thread.

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