Is taxation theft?

[Forester618]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

[BADecker]

Wrong. You could drink coffee if it was legal or illegal. Government doesn't have anything to do with your coffee drinking.

Actually, there would be free speech if government legalized it or not. No need for Government.

You have the right to use your shoes whether or not Government says anything about it.

Governments monitor and enforce. But who is the government? For example. If you were stronger, personally, than the whole military and all the people in Government, like superman, who would be the Government? Would it be you? Or would it be other Government people?

Governments operate by force. They take away the freedom of people. They steal from people. That is what taxation is... stealing from people.

You're just making my point.

You can do things because government allow you because government is more powerful than you :/

In America, Government is of the people. If an American doesn't like a law, he has the right to put the law and the lawmakers on trial in front of a 12-person jury. The jury might uphold, modify or remove the law... at least for the person in question.

The problem is that most Americans don't know that they have this kind of ability. Can't use what you don't know about.

[killgald]

It´s not a theft every goberment needs an income for paying the services they provide to their nation and the people like electricity, water, education etc..

[BADecker]

It´s not a theft every goberment needs an income for paying the services they provide to their nation and the people like electricity, water, education etc..

Not only is taxation theft, but it is also control.

You can buy government services without government.

If you say that government keeps costs down... if there were no government cost controls, people would find other ways to get services cheaper. Government is not only expensive, but it is slavery.

[yueno]

For me no because its a blood of the government. On the other hand you gets from the governments program thats why i think its not a theft. But For those corrupt official who stole our money from the government. That is a theft and plunderer for me because You get the money which is not yours.

[PeterTheGrape]

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You can buy government services without government.

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It's all variations of la cosa nostra. For a lot of things, a mafia is necessary. Government is often an attempt to make a 'less dangerous mafia'. The founders of the u.s. understood that, and tried to anticipate problems, but it is hard to preguess the dangerousness of people given 'powers' through force, which they do not merit.

Wrong. You could drink coffee if it was legal or illegal. Government doesn't have anything to do with your coffee drinking.

Actually, there would be free speech if government legalized it or not. No need for Government.

...

You're just making my point.

You can do things because government allow you because government is more powerful than you :/

In America, Government is of the people. If an American doesn't like a law, he has the right to put the law and the lawmakers on trial in front of a 12-person jury. The jury might uphold, modify or remove the law... at least for the person in question.

The problem is that most Americans don't know that they have this kind of ability. Can't use what you don't know about.

It is very ridiculous that the government can decide for some people whether they can drink coffee, rather than them using their own brain and senses.

It is like a group of kindergartners. The biggest one will say to the smallest one "I am king of the kindergarten, right?" And eventually the smaller one will be forced to agree. Then a few of the smaller ones form a society and next week the bigger brat is forced to wear underwear on his head.

The difference is that people in government really are dangerous. They really do destroy lives and operate without accountability more than kindergarteners. There is no "right to put the law and the lawmakers on trial in front of a 12-person jury" as you put it. It's like the right to force a kid to wear underwear on his head. The winner is determined by force alone, not any value. Force is money at best.

[squatz1]

For me no because its a blood of the government. On the other hand you gets from the governments program thats why i think its not a theft. But For those corrupt official who stole our money from the government. That is a theft and plunderer for me because You get the money which is not yours.

Pretty obvious here when it comes to it, though I do think the government does have a good amount of waste that should be cut into and fixed at some point. It's pretty horribly to see the amount of our tax payer funds go to waste every year based on overall corruption, incompetence, and so on and so forth.

The programs they do provide are meant to do good and I think with some more oversight and competence we should be able to maximize the efficiency of the money in government.

Not theft, gov programs do a lot.

[mainpmf]

Wrong. You could drink coffee if it was legal or illegal. Government doesn't have anything to do with your coffee drinking.

Actually, there would be free speech if government legalized it or not. No need for Government.

You have the right to use your shoes whether or not Government says anything about it.

Governments monitor and enforce. But who is the government? For example. If you were stronger, personally, than the whole military and all the people in Government, like superman, who would be the Government? Would it be you? Or would it be other Government people?

Governments operate by force. They take away the freedom of people. They steal from people. That is what taxation is... stealing from people.

You're just making my point.

You can do things because government allow you because government is more powerful than you :/

In America, Government is of the people. If an American doesn't like a law, he has the right to put the law and the lawmakers on trial in front of a 12-person jury. The jury might uphold, modify or remove the law... at least for the person in question.

The problem is that most Americans don't know that they have this kind of ability. Can't use what you don't know about.

So anyone can put the chambers on trial and if the jury of people finds the law not great they can get rid of the law? wtf? xD
Has it have ever been used in history?
I'd like to find some proofs for that because that seems completely stupid.

[Eternu]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

Well in that caste stop smoking. I mean cigarettes are harmful, why would you harm yourself, and if its out of your budget than one more reason why you should leave them. It would be catastrophic if price for food would go really high. And i do not mean on luxury food, i speaking of main parts like bread, milk and stuff like that.

[craked5]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

You mean you take money and use it to pay for the thousands of things that are free for citizens in the country?

I don't know where you're from but in most countries the tax are used to finance the healthcare and education. That's the 2 big spendings posts.

Apart if you're from USA then it will pay for the big tanks responsible for global terrorism.

[Alexzap]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

You mean you take money and use it to pay for the thousands of things that are free for citizens in the country?

I don't know where you're from but in most countries the tax are used to finance the healthcare and education. That's the 2 big spendings posts.

Apart if you're from USA then it will pay for the big tanks responsible for global terrorism.

This is the problem. Nothing is free. The government part of the money stealing, and the other part sends not on purpose. Medicine should be paid, but the price should be adequate and covered.

[craked5]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

You mean you take money and use it to pay for the thousands of things that are free for citizens in the country?

I don't know where you're from but in most countries the tax are used to finance the healthcare and education. That's the 2 big spendings posts.

Apart if you're from USA then it will pay for the big tanks responsible for global terrorism.

This is the problem. Nothing is free. The government part of the money stealing, and the other part sends not on purpose. Medicine should be paid, but the price should be adequate and covered.

It is for those who can't afford. It's free for those who need it and can't pay it, because other paid for it. Solidarity.

[Okurkabinladin]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

You mean you take money and use it to pay for the thousands of things that are free for citizens in the country?

I don't know where you're from but in most countries the tax are used to finance the healthcare and education. That's the 2 big spendings posts.

Apart if you're from USA then it will pay for the big tanks responsible for global terrorism.

This is the problem. Nothing is free. The government part of the money stealing, and the other part sends not on purpose. Medicine should be paid, but the price should be adequate and covered.

It is for those who can't afford. It's free for those who need it and can't pay it, because other paid for it. Solidarity.

Your opponent, while simple minded - is getting one thing right. It is not *free*. The only thing free is your body and mind, that you were born with.

It is not solidarity anymore, when people do it out of fear of state, dont you agree? Solidarity is motivated by love, sometimes by pity or bad consience, never by coercion and violence.

Perhaps secular governments have no other way to justify it then? Solidarity by the working class. So *everything* is *free* for *everybody*. I feel like reading Orwellls Animal farm all over again...

[craked5]

Taxes is the base for any kind of gobeerment, what you really should ask is what are he goberment doing with the taxes you pay to improve your life and country. I dont think is a theft is necesary for the country.

When a pack of cigarettes, the cost of which amounts to a few cents it cost 5-8 euros is that? Isn't that stealing? You take the money and give them to the refugees are robbed and raped. What would you call it?

You mean you take money and use it to pay for the thousands of things that are free for citizens in the country?

I don't know where you're from but in most countries the tax are used to finance the healthcare and education. That's the 2 big spendings posts.

Apart if you're from USA then it will pay for the big tanks responsible for global terrorism.

This is the problem. Nothing is free. The government part of the money stealing, and the other part sends not on purpose. Medicine should be paid, but the price should be adequate and covered.

It is for those who can't afford. It's free for those who need it and can't pay it, because other paid for it. Solidarity.

Your opponent, while simple minded - is getting one thing right. It is not *free*. The only thing free is your body and mind, that you were born with.

When someone else pays it for you it's free for you. But you can say it's not free from a macro point of view.

It is not solidarity anymore, when people do it out of fear of state, dont you agree?

No I don't I'm afraid. Solidarity: union or fellowship arising from common responsibilities and interests, as between members of a group or between classes, peoples, etc.

It doesn't have to be of goodwill, it's just the share of responsability. Even forced it's still solidarity, even if of goodwill would be better.

Solidarity is motivated by love, sometimes by pity or bad consience, never by coercion and violence.

See above.

Perhaps secular governments have no other way to justify it then? Solidarity by the working class. So *everything* is *free* for *everybody*. I feel like reading Orwellls Animal farm all over again...

Ahahah!
Where you're right it's that the pigs are still in power...
But as you saw in Animal Farm the problem isn't the system in itself but the fact that the pigs took the power on the system.
If you can make the same system with everyone in control (direct democracy) then there is nothing wrong with it.

[Okurkabinladin]

Did you indeed read the Animal farm? Because I am not sure, you understood the message. Pigs took over from farmer under the promise of social justice. They then became the new farmer accusing their slaves of being accomplices to the former master. It is the story of socialism.

When someone else pays it for you it's free for you. But you can say it's not free from a macro point of view.

Its not *free*, if there is payment involved. At the very best you could call it a hand out. In this way big governments buy loyalty of lower classes and keep them in order. Calling it solidarity is ridiculous, completely twisting meaning of the word. It is means of control, targeting people, who have no moral compass of their own.

Even forced it's still solidarity, even if of goodwill would be better.

I would love to see your definition of slavery then. Also see above.
 

But as you saw in Animal Farm the problem isn't the system in itself but the fact that the pigs took the power on the system.
If you can make the same system with everyone in control (direct democracy) then there is nothing wrong with it.

I advise re-read. Pigs control was direct result of democracy. They won others under false promise of equality replacing natural order.

[SoulBargain]

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I've watched the video you have linked and honestly it provides a misleading thought and understanding regarding tax. Every person has a choice whether to live or not, give or not, kill or not (you will understand why kill or not is included in here even though the talk is about taxation if you watch that bs or nonsense video). The point here is that taxes that the government collect is a duty that the citizens need to do for their country! The video is very misleading if you are not truly observant and listen very well! They are trying to say to disband the government as well as laws and let the corporation or company take over or decide since they have the power and they are the one who gave the job but remember the greed especially those who are at the top. You are like saying that let's disband this democratic government and have a dictatorship corporation lead!

The taxation is not a theft but you can commit theft with taxation! The taxation is a duty of every citizen to contribute to the country in exchange of protection, facilities, and services and also help those poor people by allocating some of the accumulated taxes. The government, especially the democratic government, is the face of the entire group of people who choose their leaders and maintain the order and help the people. Its like a group project where in every member needs to contribute, they can't just get in without contributing anything like playing a no-care-at-all figure so as a punishment you are expelled from the group. If you don't want to contribute you can just leave the project and don't ever try to benefit from the benefits the project brings. What is a duty of every citizen to pay taxes? Does that tax so high then it is not fair but if your problem is the tax itself then you better get out of the system and don't you ever use the roads that has been built, the security against foreign intruders, the public employment that they offer, etc.

They are things that should be mandated and there are things that you have a choice from. Whether you kill or not to kill should not be a choice but rather should be mandated and not allowed to kill anyone. As you see, this where the law, the regulation takes in action that is made possible with the government's authority to impose judgement. Ofcourse for it to function as a systematic body taking form as one in the face of a group of people, it is the duty of every citizen to pay taxes. As one body, a unity of several millions of people, it needs a unity in decisions because we can't just take every choice especially that this choice are contradicting each other (that nonsense video really irks me that I wish I didn't watch that bs but as they know all the information in the argument present before judging or critiquing).

The taxation is needed in order to allocate it especially those who are unfortunate which all will benefit. Again, taxation is not a theft but theft with taxation can be so we better be smart and wise enough to choose a righteous leader.

P.S. The video is completely bs.
P.P.S. To the OP, a friendly advice so its your choice, don't ever watch or subscribe those videos again (utterly nonsense). They are just twisting your head from the true essence of the subject; a valid argument in other words.

[craked5]

Did you indeed read the Animal farm? Because I am not sure, you understood the message. Pigs took over from farmer under the promise of social justice. They then became the new farmer accusing their slaves of being accomplices to the former master. It is the story of socialism.

I disagree! But the book is complex it would be difficult to be sure what was the point Orwell wanted to make.
Pigs took over from farmer but if you remember well the first pigs wanted indeed to keep their promises. It's only because the other animals were too stupid to see the pig named Napoleon as what he really was (a dictator) and agreed to give him all powers.

If they had stopped him from taking absolute powers, then the farm would have worked nicely.
As you can see I did read the Animal farm but I don't have the same reading that you ^^

When someone else pays it for you it's free for you. But you can say it's not free from a macro point of view.

Its not *free*, if there is payment involved. At the very best you could call it a hand out. In this way big governments buy loyalty of lower classes and keep them in order. Calling it solidarity is ridiculous, completely twisting meaning of the word. It is means of control, targeting people, who have no moral compass of their own.

Even forced it's still solidarity, even if of goodwill would be better.

I would love to see your definition of slavery then. Also see above.

I'm sorry but just read the definition of the word that I gave to you...

Solidarity is the share of responsability in a community. There is NO NEED FOR GOODWILL.
Of course it's better, but solidarity isn't "being nice to ones fellow citizens". It's sharing the responsability accross a group. In socialism, taxation is the way to share the responsability. Responsability of what will you ask? Responsability for the future generations to be able to continue making the country grow.

Granting basic education and healthcare to all citizens is considered as a responsability in some developped countries. It is not the case in USA and UK but that's merely a question of what does the people consider as a responsability, there isn't a good or a bad answer to that. Only a question of perspectives.

But YES taxation IS solidarity by DEFINITION because taxation is the way we share the responsability accross a nation. That you like it or not has no impact on what it is.

But as you saw in Animal Farm the problem isn't the system in itself but the fact that the pigs took the power on the system.
If you can make the same system with everyone in control (direct democracy) then there is nothing wrong with it.

I advise re-read. Pigs control was direct result of democracy. They won others under false promise of equality replacing natural order.

I advise re-read too ^^
Pigs control is not a result of direct democracy, the full control that Napoleon takes on the farm was by force, it's only when he kills the other pigs and takes everything by force that the shit hits the fan.

[Ursul0]

no, unless it's stolen and not being used to improve the common world.

[youdamushi]

no, unless it's stolen and not being used to improve the common world.

Which is sadly the case in a hell lot of countries...
Developped countries are in the end only slightly affected by corruption and tax problem.
When you look at third world countries THERE you see how shitty a government can become.

Balance of power is always the most important.

[Ursul0]

no, unless it's stolen and not being used to improve the common world.

Which is sadly the case in a hell lot of countries...
Developped countries are in the end only slightly affected by corruption and tax problem.
When you look at third world countries THERE you see how shitty a government can become.

Balance of power is always the most important.

this is all greed and consumerism, fed by fear (great marketing tool) and short term fiscal thinking, also unsustainable in long term...
in short - we're fucked:)