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Question: Closing BTC Price June 28:
$0 - 5 (3.2%)
<$7,000 - 4 (2.5%)
$7,000-$7,499 - 0 (0%)
$7,500-$7,999 - 0 (0%)
$8,000-$8,499 - 1 (0.6%)
$8,500-$8,999 - 3 (1.9%)
$9,000-$9,499 - 4 (2.5%)
$9,500-$9,999 - 27 (17.1%)
$10,000-$10,499 - 24 (15.2%)
$10,500-10,999 - 12 (7.6%)
$11,000-$11,499 - 14 (8.9%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 15 (9.5%)
>$12,000 - 36 (22.8%)
>$20,000 - 13 (8.2%)
Total Voters: 158

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21243633 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (66 posts by 16 users deleted.)
bluebits
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June 19, 2018, 01:01:08 AM



Should we just assume bitmex traders are the opposite of right, so wrong, all the time?
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June 19, 2018, 01:05:39 AM

I didn't even have to read to guess that after that 5% rise the forum would have gone full bulltard. Should I even read the last 5 pages. I think my head will explode looking at all the nub charts.
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June 19, 2018, 01:07:56 AM

I didn't even have to read to guess that after that 5% rise the forum would have gone full bulltard. Should I even read the last 5 pages. I think my head will explode looking at all the nub charts.

Where rocket pics?
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June 19, 2018, 01:10:32 AM

there it is...perfect timing



I am lost.  

Perhaps I am missing a variable, or the math is beyond me.


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June 19, 2018, 01:23:07 AM

I didn't even have to read to guess that after that 5% rise the forum would have gone full bulltard. Should I even read the last 5 pages. I think my head will explode looking at all the nub charts.

Where rocket pics?
bones261
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June 19, 2018, 01:31:08 AM

there it is...perfect timing



I am lost.  

Perhaps I am missing a variable, or the math is beyond me.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet
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June 19, 2018, 01:37:05 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

there it is...perfect timing
Wink 

I didn't even have to read to guess that after that 5% rise the forum would have gone full bulltard. Should I even read the last 5 pages. I think my head will explode looking at all the nub charts.

Tera-bull posting bullish charts...oh my. Cheesy

I am lost. 

Perhaps I am missing a variable, or the math is beyond me.

Just leet speak Jay..a bit of fun. I enjoy giving that one thousand three hundred and thirty seventh merit..thats all. Besides..I think the period as placed by jojo was proper. Your post could have ended there and I would have agreed and understood. That you chose to elucidate farther and take the time to try and explain yourself to the little bear is worthy of applause. *golf clap* 
Seriously..well done.

----
1h
I have adjusted the cloud settings some. Trying to figure out the best settings for bitcoin still. I was using just a doubling of the defaults(9,26,52,26 to 18,52,104,52), but I feel that still does not reflect the 24/7 nature of crypto. Going to try 30,60,120,30 for awhile and see how it syncs up. Work in progress.


D
I would like to see $6.95k to confirm uptrend.

#hodl




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June 19, 2018, 01:48:03 AM

Tera has a point. The volume on that green candle was anemic.
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June 19, 2018, 01:51:07 AM

I don't give a ratt's ass about what I said or did not say

Obviously.

Quote
stop getting caught up in these kinds of technicalities in order to attempt to keep your stupid-ass FUD spreading topic relevant, when it barely is relevant to anything in Bitcoin.

It is not FUD spreading. It is truthful statements about properties of Segwit.

You, on the other hand, either were completely wrong or lying in your assertion that these properties did not exist.

Quote
O.k.. so fucking what if you are correct on the theoretical issue,

When backed into a hole of your own digging, you accede to what all can see. How big of you.

Quote
Are you asserting that such topical pursuit is not getting caught up in the weeds of bullshit, and there is some kind of importance in meandering down such rabbit hole in which you would like to direct me and the rest of this thread's participants?  

What I am asserting remains what I have been asserting all along. I am asserting that these properties are endemic to Segwit. Period.

What is more, I only offered this up when someone asked me to explain why I was a Segwit skeptic. This narrative of me calling certain and immediate impending doom is one of your own deluded invention.

Quote
Seems like speculation about a phenomena that is .1% likely to happen and you are attempting to treat such speculation as if it has greater than 50% odds, no?  

No. I even stated point blank that the significance of these existing properties is a subject of debate.

Quote
Why isn't your conduct here considered just FUD spreading and trolling?  

Probably because I stick to the facts.

Quote
How is it that you want WO peeps to treat you seriously and with credibility, jbreher, when you seem to take nearly every opportunity to exaggerate negative aspects of bitcoin with highly unlikely theories?  

How is it that you want WO peeps to treat you seriously and with credibility, JJG, when you seem to take nearly every opportunity to exaggerate my position and stick words in my mouth - only after having been exposed as either ignorant or duplicitous?

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June 19, 2018, 01:55:16 AM

[edited out]

Fuck no. I started holding in late 2016 with a too little amount.

Well, I guess the best case scenario for normal peeps (meaning people with cashflow and some money in which to attempt to invest) getting into bitcoin would have been to have largely established a decent BTC position before 2017; however, we also know that some peeps are doing well if they were able to continue to invest into bitcoin before the August 2017 pump that came after the issues regarding the hardfork attacks on bitcoin (bcash) were mostly resolved in bitcoin's favor.  I do understand that during early 2017 and even late 2016, there were a lot of ways that normal peeps could have been FUDDED out of buying into bitcoin, but if we had been in bitcoin since 2013/2014, then there should have been some ability to sort through a lot of the FUD and to continue to establish a decent BTC position inspite of the then ongoing FUD spreading (actually, a fact of the bitcoin matter, remains that there are periods in which FUD spreading is greater or lessens, but FUD spreading always seems to exist to some extent, so FUD spreading is not a phenomena that tends to go away, so in that regard each of us, has a personal responsibility to sort through that FUD crap).

Are you saying that in 2013, 2014, 2015 and much of 2016, you were not stacking bitcoin?  Even if you had stacked a small amount of perhaps $100 per month ($25-ish per week), you could have stacked a decently sized BTC holdings by the end of 2016, no?


Then in late 2017 that little amount became a mid sized treasure.

That is true.  Even though the start of the upsurge in BTC prices started in late 2015, it gained a lot of momentum throughout 2017, and especially in the last part of 2017.  And even though I personally had concluded that a blow off top had not yet happened, it is surely possible that because of the intensity of the upwards slope increase, that late 2017 had constituted a blow off top.  I am still inclined to believe that the blow off top for this particular cycle is still to come, but I acknowledge that the intensity of the late 2017 price rise could fit a more modest categorization of a blow off top assessment.


I used to invest %5-10 of my montly income till february or smth. Apparently, I needed much more than that.

Actually, each of us has to come to a calculation that suits our own financial situation, and my initial goal was to put about 10% of my total quasi-liquid investment capital into bitcoin, and that is money that I had already accumulated through previous years that I had been investing.  My prior investing had varied through the years, too, and usually I attempted something like you, I would calculate my various regular expenses and try to create a cushion in my cash flow in order to have a percentage that would be available for investment, and surely 5-10% is a decent amount, but of course, different people have different things that they consider to be bare necessities, and so sometimes the amount invested could be increased by changing some of the perceptions of bare necessities.. and also calculating an emergency fund and various other good practices, such as maintaining a 6 month or so projection of living expenses in order that you would not have to dig into any investment, because of an "emergency."

So please wait some more Wink

Perhaps you will get lucky?  But, I don't think that you can expect bitcoin to wait for you.  It seems better to just attempt to maintain a solid ongoing investment strategy, and your 5-10% seems reasonable... because the amount invested continues to add up, so over the years, you are still going to be in a better position than a lot of the fence sitters and the many others who have not set anything up for themselves or have not heard about bitcoin in any kind of meaningful way.

Why haven't I bought at least 20 when it was sub 1000?

I don't think that anyone could really blame you for being judicious with your money and investing only the amount that you reasonably had available in your cashflow.  The only thing is that you seem to be implying that you could have reasonably and easily bought much more, but you held off such investment.


I guess I bought the FUD from the guys like fucking roach.

The main thing is learning from the situation, because there are always going to be FUD spreading roaches out there.  I still think that you have to take into account some of the FUD, and to invest in accordance with your overall beliefs and a moderate approach is likely going to be best to keep putting money in to bitcoin but without over extending yourself.

Or maybe It was the post-Gox trauma... in 2015 many people thought that btc was going to "0". The amount of FUD was overwhelming back then. I was weak and in this world weak people dieeeeeee becuz evolution/adaptation.

Like I already mentioned, I think that there has always been FUD out there about bitcoin.  I doubt that the FUD is going away any time soon.

Hopefully, you can find some kind of long term and sustainable investment strategy, and I hope that you do not get scared out of your coins if the price goes down from here.  Certainly, there are no guarantees in bitcoin, and in that regard prices could go either way, so each of us needs to find balance for our own finances, views, timeline, etc.   Ultimately, each of us also needs to attempt to take personal responsibility for our approach and to tweak our approach from time to time, based on ongoing learning from our mistakes, and seems that any of us could make mistakes.
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June 19, 2018, 01:56:32 AM
Merited by BobLawblaw (1)

Tera has a point. The volume on that green candle was anemic.

Bitcoin doesn't need blood. It has New York now. And memes.

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June 19, 2018, 02:24:35 AM

Tera has a point. The volume on that green candle was anemic.

Bitcoin doesn't need blood. It has New York now. And memes.


How will Karhu feed without blood?
A god can't live on memes alone.
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June 19, 2018, 02:28:19 AM

How will Karhu feed without blood?
A god can't live on memes alone.

Pepe the Frog and Sonni are on our side.

We good, fam.
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June 19, 2018, 02:30:21 AM

I'm comforted now. Thanks
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June 19, 2018, 02:33:41 AM

Who here is NOT going to sell me their Lambo if I pay in BTC that has either some segwit taint, or that actually comes from a native segwit address? I didn't find anyone who wouldn't accept my coins.
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June 19, 2018, 02:36:22 AM

Curious, are dollars (USD) fungible? Are physical dollar bills and dollars which only exist in a bank ledger separate asset classes? What about dollar bills that have been marked in some way?

By definition no, but in practice sort of. Tongue

Fair enough.  

I have been largely painting this fungibility topic with broad strokes regarding what seems to be a topic that attempts to spread FUD rather than treating an actual serious bitcoin issue which fungibility currently is not such a topic, even though surely there are likely going to be attempted bitcoin fungibility attacks in the future - whether informationally or the employment of various methods, like you suggested blacklisting as one possible method that may not be easy to carry out in bitcoin if "people-empowering" tools continue to be developed and evolve.

Unfortunately my faith in that area is that it will be tested and I hope those tools you speak of materialize.

This concept of maintaining fungibility is not a new one in bitcoin, and of course, it is going to be tested, and perhaps tested with a bit of rigor.  Just because it is a potential vulnerable area does not mean that bitcoin is not going to be able to overcome various attacks on its fungibility.  Should we not be taking one step at a time, rather than assuming that various attack vectors are going to be successful merely because people, such as jbreher, are attempting to spread FUD about it?

Surely, I might conclude that fungibility is a .1% concern, and you might conclude it is 10% and jbreher might consider that it is 20%, but the mere fact that we have different probabilities about future value and utility should cause us to invest differently based on how BIG we believe the threat to be.  Some folks are going to be closer to being correct than others, and that is the nature of the free market, to some extent.

Right now it's kind of ironic that non fungible coins are similar to fiat by being sort of.

Your answer above, about fiat being sort of non-fungible seems to be a bit off.   Fiat is backed by government laws, etc, and there have been fungibility court rulings in regard to fiat.  Of course, governments can chose to change their fiat related rules too.  I would conclude that there is a decently strong public policy to attempt to maintain dollar fungibility and that gives the dollar decent strength and decent predictability.  Of course, the rules could be changed, at some point in regards to the dollar.  Seems to be a bit more difficult to change the rules in regards to bitcoin, and in that regard, there will likely be both governmental attempts or anti-bitcoin groups that try to change bitcoin rules, and some of the anti-bitcoin groups will actually tout themselves as being pro bitcoin, and out to do what is "best" for bitcoin.  Good luck, we will see, and each of us will decide if we are scared by what is happening or decide to sell our bitcoin (or discontinue usage of bitcoin) based on such happenings.

But I don't see how not being fungible can destroy any coin it just has a different utility.

You are likely correct that there is a sliding scale when it comes to fungibility, and I think that most free market types are going to perceive the most value in bitcoin being associated with greater levels of fungibility... so yeah, you are right that lesser fungibility may maintain some value, but the amount of decrease in value may be a lot greater than what you seem to be projecting it to be.  For example if confidence is lost because coins get blacklisted, then surely that seems problematic to me if it is allowed to occur.  So if any 3rd party such as coinbase or fed government tries to label coins, then there would likely be some effort by the bitcoin community to either not use their services or to move coins to other location and clean them of their blacklisting.
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June 19, 2018, 02:45:58 AM

there it is...perfect timing



I am lost.  

Perhaps I am missing a variable, or the math is beyond me.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

So in regards to the merit number, I had seen some of the 1337 discussions, yet I think what confused me about jojo's post was how the whole thing is connected to the portion of my post that jojo cited?  It's like over my head.  dudes, and dudette.
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June 19, 2018, 03:14:49 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1)

I don't give a ratt's ass about what I said or did not say

Obviously.

Quote
stop getting caught up in these kinds of technicalities in order to attempt to keep your stupid-ass FUD spreading topic relevant, when it barely is relevant to anything in Bitcoin.

It is not FUD spreading. It is truthful statements about properties of Segwit.

You, on the other hand, either were completely wrong or lying in your assertion that these properties did not exist.

From my understanding, for some assertion to fit into a lying category, then it would have to include an intention to mislead, right?  

I have had no intention to mislead in regards to this particular segwit fungibility topic.  Whether I was "completely wrong," I have my doubts about that too, so I would need to see the exact statement in order to attempt to assess about what you are referring and whether it matters.

Even though I have been wrong about various matters in the past, a categorization of "completely wrong" is a very strong assertion that I will deny, at least for now, unless I see evidence to the contrary... So far, all I see is that you are making bullshittingly bold lack of fungibility statements, and acting as if they have some kind of material significance in regards to the current state of bitcoin.   Roll Eyes


Quote
O.k.. so fucking what if you are correct on the theoretical issue,

When backed into a hole of your own digging, you accede to what all can see. How big of you.


Hole?  What hole?

Are you just trying to argue for the sake of it?  Is there some kind of point that you would like to make?  Is bitcoin going to die soon?  cause of death = lack of fungibility?

You surely act as if you have made some kind of meaningful statement at some point in regards to some kind of lack of fungibility question in bitcoin.


Quote
Are you asserting that such topical pursuit is not getting caught up in the weeds of bullshit, and there is some kind of importance in meandering down such rabbit hole in which you would like to direct me and the rest of this thread's participants?  

What I am asserting remains what I have been asserting all along. I am asserting that these properties are endemic to Segwit. Period.

O.k.  You are asserting a theory.. So fucking what?  Do you have any evidence of a problem, yet?  Anyone refusing to take segwit transactions that amounts to a material and significant problem?


What is more, I only offered this up when someone asked me to explain why I was a Segwit skeptic.

That is generous of you.  I recall something about you not using segwit.. so good luck with that.  Of course, legacy addresses can still be processed because the segwit fork was backwards compatible, so perhaps that will work out for you.  Maybe at some point in the future, you will come around to using segwit?  Who knows?  You do seem to have some strange inclinations.  But hey, to each his own.


This narrative of me calling certain and immediate impending doom is one of your own deluded invention.

I don't think so.  You want to continue to pursue this topic, and it seems that you are not really getting any traction, here, but you want to continue, right?  What does that say?  To me, it seems that you want to continue to pursue irrelevance and attempting to give more weight to the topic than it deserves... at least at this time.

Quote
Seems like speculation about a phenomena that is .1% likely to happen and you are attempting to treat such speculation as if it has greater than 50% odds, no?  

No. I even stated point blank that the significance of these existing properties is a subject of debate.

Does not really seem that it is subject to much debate if it is a pie in the sky speculation with a very low probability of even being an issue.  Probably better to create another thread on the topic or to join the topic in another thread if you think that it remains such an important discussion point, no?

Quote
Why isn't your conduct here considered just FUD spreading and trolling?  

Probably because I stick to the facts.

Gotta find some humor in this self-description.  I couldn't maintain a serious face, and argue that you are without some humor, from time to time, even if your humor, in this case, was not intentional.


Quote
How is it that you want WO peeps to treat you seriously and with credibility, jbreher, when you seem to take nearly every opportunity to exaggerate negative aspects of bitcoin with highly unlikely theories?  

How is it that you want WO peeps to treat you seriously and with credibility, JJG, when you seem to take nearly every opportunity to exaggerate my position and stick words in my mouth - only after having been exposed as either ignorant or duplicitous?

touché

Answering a question with nearly the same question.  I suppose you could not really answer my rhetorical question very well, except to merely tailor your question to what you perceive to be my conduct.

We've exhausted this fungibility topic, for now, no?  

Any other points needed?  Doesn't seem like it to me.

Who here is NOT going to sell me their Lambo if I pay in BTC that has either some segwit taint, or that actually comes from a native segwit address? I didn't find anyone who wouldn't accept my coins.

Exactly.  I think that is part of the point.  There is no real evidence of peeps refusing to accept segwit coins or segwit tainted coins.... Not yet, anyhow.  So the discussion point remains theoretical and speculative rather than based on any kind of significant facts (except for "asserted facts" whatever that is?).
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June 19, 2018, 03:16:11 AM

Tera has a point. The volume on that green candle was anemic.

It's the standard Bitfinex scam as usual where they try to rig the price on that exchange by fraud where you can't even sell bitcoins for dollars, then they attempt to dump bitcoins for dollars at elevated prices on the real exchanges like Bitstamp and Coinbase.  As predicted, there is no demand for their fraudulent tether pump on the real exchanges.  I'm so tired of watching these Bitfinex criminal's scam day in and day out.  Yes, the people who run the exchange are 100% involved - it's a MtGox 2.0.
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June 19, 2018, 03:16:24 AM

The evidence is already given. Segwit creates a triple-classed asset. And that this is by definition a lack of fungibility.

I will pay you 10% under market for all your segwit tainted coins.

Might need to do it in batches.

No?
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