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Question: Will bitcoin ever go below $10K again in your lifetime?
Yes - 34 (54%)
No - 29 (46%)
Total Voters: 63

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 22659478 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (148 posts by 37 users deleted.)
Cryptotourist
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May 15, 2019, 12:50:19 PM

now is the time to focus

Where?  Grin
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May 15, 2019, 12:50:28 PM

Bugger not again.  A new meltdown

https://labs.bitdefender.com/2019/05/yet-another-meltdown-a-microarchitectural-fill-buffer-data-sampling-vulnerability/
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May 15, 2019, 12:51:11 PM

V8's posts are always worth of max focus.
Last of the V8s
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May 15, 2019, 12:53:48 PM

meh i raise you
Meanwhile the Intel "optimization" induced data leaks keep rolling in (archived). The ongoing Intel optimization fraud has lead Google to disable Intel's "Hyperthreading" in their ChromeOS spyware with other vendors considering similar measures (archived).
Last of the V8s
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May 15, 2019, 12:56:10 PM

Anonymint is meth level behavior
fine. judgy but w/e. any commentary on the charts?
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May 15, 2019, 12:59:02 PM

https://twitter.com/ErikVoorhees/status/1128415017450262528
anyone got a copy of this video please that isn't riddled with spyware to access
some say it's worth a watch
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May 15, 2019, 01:04:08 PM

While solidly behind bitcoin, I cannot be at the position of "only bitcoin forever".
Here is my purely behavioristic argument:

1. Wall Street (WS) largely "missed" bitcoin as more than 84% is already issued with very small (anecdotally) institutional ownership.

2. WS knows how to do "promotions".

3. Would it be easier for WS to promote a new token/coin/entity that is not almost fully subscribed yet vs the one that is already owned? I think that the answer is "probably, yes"

4. WS don't like chasing, but they do like sweet early deals.

Conclusion: BTC will be pushed first and will dramatically appreciate, but then the momentum might switch to "shitcoins".
Which ones's?
IMHO, the one's that are under-issued: XRP (since Ripple can make sweet deals at 40C now with appreciation later), watch out for Ripple issuing billions of coins from their 66 bil "stash", maybe ZEC as only 6mil out of 21 mil were mined so far. Don't want to mention newcomers, but watch out for large tranches of coins being allocated to WS hedge funds and institutions from some new and upcoming chains.

Personally, I don't think that ethereum would show large appreciation due to much competition in the area (POS) where it wants to compete.

One can, hopefully, design a strategy where potential profits in "shitcoins" would be transferred to bitcoin in due course.
I don't intend to sell any bitcoin (and certainly not for shitcoins), hopefully, until retirement or some unforeseen urgency, but some cash allocation along the lines that were mentioned above could be interesting. We shall see.



So, you are basically saying "buy ripple" because it's centralized bank money?

Not cool bro...


This is why I'm not interested in listing individual coins.

There is no doubt that Bitcoin will remain at the top as the dollar AND gold of the new world. But you'd have to have gone through life blindfolded to not realize that altcoins will not be disappearing.

The more the market grows the more players will compete to create unique solutions outside of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will be what you want to get to store value and what you will be using to spend your money.

Alts will be focused more on utility of individual applications, products or other problems.
You don't want to keep your proof of participation in e.g. a hedge fund in Bitcoin because those Bitcoins are supposed to be used within the fund to generate profits. So you need a token to denominate your relative share. Just to name a second example. Tokens allow for unique solutions that Bitcoin itself can not.


Whether or not those tokens will be on the Bitcoin blockchain or not is a completely different story.


Although it's clear that they will not exclusively be due to more specialized solutions in other places, e.g. Python wrappers on other chains that allow for much more streamlined data science solutions.

Sure, you could say that they could have implemented that same functionality on Bitcoin. But they chose not to.

If you don't like it go and implement it on Bitcoin yourself.

But stop pretending that everybody trying to create something is a scammer, this thread should know better than that.


Either way, if all of the thousands of projects were outright scams they would quickly self-destruct and disappear within a number of years after every last idiot got burnt, so why even care?



If you're too lazy to do your research or simply don't care that's alright. But you don't have to buy anything to learn about the future today. You can look at Tesla even if you hate electric cars and then proceed to realize that automation is coming and you can start imagining what that entails.


But the arguments against altcoins so far are riddled with ignorance and the same fundamentally flawed assumptions. They assume that everything is a Ripple (centralized shitty clone) or BitConnect (obvious 100% scam) tier scams.


Basically, every argument against altcoins in the past two days can be summed up with:

- Tesla is a scam because we already have cars
- Automation doesn't exist
- If it actually exists then just do it with old cars then everybody who dares do it on different types of cars is a scammer , never mind that they are the people putting in the hours. If it's not on old cars it's a scam that distracts from progress
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May 15, 2019, 01:10:47 PM

Hardware wallets! Never use anything else at this point.
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May 15, 2019, 01:17:20 PM

While solidly behind bitcoin, I cannot be at the position of "only bitcoin forever".
Here is my purely behavioristic argument:

1. Wall Street (WS) largely "missed" bitcoin as more than 84% is already issued with very small (anecdotally) institutional ownership.

2. WS knows how to do "promotions".

3. Would it be easier for WS to promote a new token/coin/entity that is not almost fully subscribed yet vs the one that is already owned? I think that the answer is "probably, yes"

4. WS don't like chasing, but they do like sweet early deals.

Conclusion: BTC will be pushed first and will dramatically appreciate, but then the momentum might switch to "shitcoins".
Which ones's?
IMHO, the one's that are under-issued: XRP (since Ripple can make sweet deals at 40C now with appreciation later), watch out for Ripple issuing billions of coins from their 66 bil "stash", maybe ZEC as only 6mil out of 21 mil were mined so far. Don't want to mention newcomers, but watch out for large tranches of coins being allocated to WS hedge funds and institutions from some new and upcoming chains.

Personally, I don't think that ethereum would show large appreciation due to much competition in the area (POS) where it wants to compete.

One can, hopefully, design a strategy where potential profits in "shitcoins" would be transferred to bitcoin in due course.
I don't intend to sell any bitcoin (and certainly not for shitcoins), hopefully, until retirement or some unforeseen urgency, but some cash allocation along the lines that were mentioned above could be interesting. We shall see.



So, you are basically saying "buy ripple" because it's centralized bank money?

Not cool bro...


This is why I'm not interested in listing individual coins.

There is no doubt that Bitcoin will remain at the top as the dollar AND gold of the new world. But you'd have to have gone through life blindfolded to not realize that altcoins will not be disappearing.

The more the market grows the more players will compete to create unique solutions outside of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will be what you want to get to store value and what you will be using to spend your money.

Alts will be focused more on utility of individual applications, products or other problems.
You don't want to keep your proof of participation in e.g. a hedge fund in Bitcoin because those Bitcoins are supposed to be used within the fund to generate profits. So you need a token to denominate your relative share. Just to name a second example. Tokens allow for unique solutions that Bitcoin itself can not.


Whether or not those tokens will be on the Bitcoin blockchain or not is a completely different story.


Although it's clear that they will not exclusively be due to more specialized solutions in other places, e.g. Python wrappers on other chains that allow for much more streamlined data science solutions.

Sure, you could say that they could have implemented that same functionality on Bitcoin. But they chose not to.

If you don't like it go and implement it on Bitcoin yourself.

But stop pretending that everybody trying to create something is a scammer, this thread should know better than that.


Either way, if all of the thousands of projects were outright scams they would quickly self-destruct and disappear within a number of years after every last idiot got burnt, so why even care?



If you're too lazy to do your research or simply don't care that's alright. But you don't have to buy anything to learn about the future today. You can look at Tesla even if you hate electric cars and then proceed to realize that automation is coming and you can start imagining what that entails.


But the arguments against altcoins so far are riddled with ignorance and the same fundamentally flawed assumptions. They assume that everything is a Ripple (centralized shitty clone) or BitConnect (obvious 100% scam) tier scams.


Basically, every argument against altcoins in the past two days can be summed up with:

- Tesla is a scam because we already have cars
- Automation doesn't exist
- If it actually exists then just do it with old cars then everybody who dares do it on different types of cars is a scammer , never mind that they are the people putting in the hours. If it's not on old cars it's a scam that distracts from progress
I like altcoins I see them as experiments, if something truly amazing is developed on one we can bring it to Bitcoin. I do only hold Bitcoin and Ethereum though. Eth is the non currency side of crypto and Bitcoin the investment gold standard.
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May 15, 2019, 01:17:53 PM

Trading just went live on binance.
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May 15, 2019, 01:19:14 PM

Tokonormal.

How are competitors against Facebook  doing? Against Apple? Against Amazon? Against Netflix? Against Google?  Do you want to diversify into second tier versions of the FAANGs?

No you do not.  

They each completely dominate their market segment.  

As does Bitcoin.

Diversification is about picking the best of each market segment and buying a little of each.  It is not about chasing penny stocks.
Depends on the timeline. Pretty sure Google killed Yahoo. Netflix/YT killed TV. Amazon killed retailers. Apple killed BlackBerry. Facebook killed MySpace.

And I can blindly promise you that all of those will eventually be killed as well because of arrogance and unwillingness to change.


I have no doubt that Bitcoin will last for at least a hundred years at this point, perhaps much much longer because of our increasing lifespans. And I have no doubt that it will become the global default SoV and MoE and remain as such for a very long time. But as time goes on new problems arise.


But that's a different argument to mine (for alts and diversification) anyways. I'm not a fan of "herp derp look at me I'm faster because nobody uses me" cryptos. I only care about alts that are budding companies with unique utilization of tokens.



I like altcoins I see them as experiments, if something truly amazing is developed on one we can bring it to Bitcoin. I do only hold Bitcoin and Ethereum though. Eth is the non currency side of crypto and Bitcoin the investment gold standard.
That's a fair point. I haven't considered transaction type shitcoins as experiments for future upgrades to Bitcoin itself.
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May 15, 2019, 01:32:08 PM

Amazon went public 22 years ago today. A $1k investment would be worth $1.2M today.

Bitcoin is only 10 years old. A $1k investment would be worth $2.6 BILLION today.

The new financial system is creating generational wealth for many people. 🔥

https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1128638988510736386?s=21
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May 15, 2019, 01:35:23 PM



Diversification is about picking the best of each market segment and buying a little of each.  It is not about chasing penny stocks.

Portfolio performance is only gained with a range of stocks from each sector. The lower caps will always be more volatile and some will outperform the dominant stock.

We are only talking investment intent and actions here, not fundamental value. Therefore investment is about chasing penny stocks , and medium cap stocks, just as much as big-cap stocks.

The sort of investors we are talking about see cryptos as stocks, so plenty of money will flow into alts, and many will outperform BTC (considering price alone)

You are confusing two separate concepts.  

Diversification is a risk reduction technique.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversification_(finance)

Portfolio optimization is about optimising a portfolio to achieve a specific objective (growth, income etc). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portfolio_optimization.

When you are saying ‘diversification’, you really mean portfolio optimization in a way that increases risk


If you want to optimize for high risk, high growth then chasing alts is the way to go. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this is diversification, because it’s not.
I don't know if that's what the wikipedia article says and if it is then it's absolutely retarded.

Say your portfolio has an expected return of 5%.

Now you buy some risky assets to add to your portfolio.

If that addition to your portfolio fails to increase your expected return beyond 5% you've failed to optimize your portfolio.

If it's equal you now have a more volatile portfolio, if it drops below 5% you've lowered your profitability. In both cases you have not optimized anything. So anyone who calls those cases portfolio optimization probably has a degree in Economics.

If you've indeed optimized your portfolio then your expected return has gone above 5%. Your portfolio may now have become more volatile depending on your relative exposition to those "risky assets", but you have not increased the risk. Unless you are talking about marginal probabilities, which would be nonsense considering that we are talking about an aggregate, a portfolio.
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May 15, 2019, 01:35:38 PM

So all in all I wouldn't p*ss on the potato patch that you're growing in if I were you. (I also make the same case in reverse to sh*coin maximalists by the way - for the same reasons).

I'm no horticulturist, but isn't urine actually a good fertilizer? Hence, you would want to piss on your potato patch?

It depends. Pissing on grass kills it eventually. People's dogs pissing on their lawns can cause chaos.

Shitting on your potato patch is a completely different matter. Hence we get that smell wafting in through train windows while passing a freshly fertilised field.

Too much fertilizer always burns out plants.

https://insteading.com/blog/human-urine-fertilizer/

Maybe that's why UROCoin failed despite being backed 1:1 with 1 metric tonne of Urea fertilizer (derived from piss).

Another dev tried a similar strategy with pisscoin, but strangely enough that failed too.


I don't feel qualified to comment on how a shitcoin based on Piss could possibly fail. Smiley

Quote
As with any source of nitrogen, urea itself can damage plants: nitrogen impairs or completely impedes seed germination, and too much nitrogen can give crops a “burn.”

https://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/urea-fertilizers
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May 15, 2019, 01:37:31 PM

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Was cruising in the City last evening after playing... and saw this one, curious what kind of guy this would be....

HODLEr

Non HODLer

No coiner

??

...... Roll Eyes
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May 15, 2019, 01:38:15 PM

The expression “piss poor” comes from those who sold their urine to tanners...

Piss was also used as a source for salt peter for gunpowder.
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May 15, 2019, 01:47:00 PM

https://i.imgur.com/tBTkIye.gif

First wanna thank you guys for the "for most massively" support coming from you guys (for the source application)

Also wanna thank all the members who are mainly in other sections as speculation or our "WO-thread"

Then every member will know the application was my words that I wanted to say, but the PERFECT English wasn't my exact writing, so XhomerX thanks for helping me out putting my words in that awesome text, I owe you a very big THANK YOU and most of respect, helping a member out how you did.

Then jojo said one time he wasn't really sending support cause members he talk with and are became sources are a little bit difficult for him, as he doesn't want to make a joke that comes of like merit begging, I been with you guys a very long period of time and I will not change for one F*** while being in here and, I know you guys in here so just be the same to me and don't give a F***

That been said the sun is shining on the terrace where i'm drinking a fresh ginger thea and a sparkling water, the price is 7915$ and BTC looks as beautiful as always

1BTC still = 1BTC so nothing changed Cheesy
Congrats on finally getting accepted!

Celebrate with a bottle of:




It's pretty sweet. Almost like a dessert wine or liqueur.
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May 15, 2019, 01:56:47 PM

bitcoin is more like an industrial standard like usb or internet.

Hmm. Maybe more like a standard for brush heads.

We're 10 years in and there are now 4 million blockchain transactions occurring each day, only about 0.3 Million (6%) of which are on the bitcoin network. Total reported daily trading volume is about $60 Billion, of which only $1.6 Billion occurs on the Bitcoin network. Another $27 billion or so is in off-chain trading of bitcoin as an asset and the other $30 billion is in non-bitcoin blockchain assets.

So again, contrary to your "standards" metaphor bitcoin is emerging as a horizontal asset, not a vertical one. It occupies a strategic role as a reserve tier within a complex, developing market

in 10 years, no one came up with any innovative use case.
.

That is for the most part b.s. and you probably know it is so I won't develop the point further other than to comment on your "it will be integrated into bitcoin" remark.

Sidechains, for example, are an interesting novelty but they're a technological diversification of bitcoin, not a monetary one. If I want an asset who's value is pegged to bitcoin, I'll buy bitcoin. If I want an asset with different monetary properties I'll buy one who's price is set by the free market commensurate with demand. Sidechains in that respect are simply a market rigging attempt by crazed mono-culture zealot developers who think that economics should work like a set of technical standards. It's the ultimate hypocrisy. First...there's no need for anything other than bitcoin, then later...ok, there is but its value must be fixed to bitcoin's.

No. As with any other innovation, the value will be set ultimately by the free market.
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May 15, 2019, 02:03:14 PM



Was cruising in the City last evening after playing... and saw this one, curious what kind of guy this would be....


Must be Nelson's car.



BTW congrats on the big Merit Source victory. Some people have been waiting 6 months or longer since they applied (makes me think they were probably passed on but theymos didn't have the heart to tell them).
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May 15, 2019, 02:07:31 PM
Merited by infofront (1)

Trouble with Bitcoin is it's far more disruptive than any of us realised.
Many of us are still stuck with fiat-based visions of the future.
But money is real now, at long last.
You can't go pouring huge gobs of fake money into futuristic projects any more.
You will lose your chance to buy more bitcoin and thereby to have any power or influence.
An OG with 50k coins will have more power than most countries do now.
~150 of them will have half the world's wealth.
By far the most people will not have any money at all.
Bitcoin will bring about a new feudal technocracy.
But first, complete chaos.
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