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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26837457 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 1 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ChartBuddy
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September 12, 2015, 04:02:08 PM

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Norway
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September 12, 2015, 04:51:00 PM

I recommend "A Transaction Fee Market Exists without a Block Size Limit" by Peter R in Montreal!

https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/live
BlackSpidy
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September 12, 2015, 04:53:13 PM

I recommend "A Transaction Fee Market Exists without a Block Size Limit" by Peter R in Montreal!

https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/live

Hey, do you know where these are going to be uploaded later on? I'd like to see all of it later, maybe share it with my friends.
ChartBuddy
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September 12, 2015, 05:02:08 PM

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Norway
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September 12, 2015, 05:02:45 PM

I recommend "A Transaction Fee Market Exists without a Block Size Limit" by Peter R in Montreal!

https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/live

Hey, do you know where these are going to be uploaded later on? I'd like to see all of it later, maybe share it with my friends.

Probably on youtube. There are some youtube-links on the page I refered to. (But they are not working yet, afaik...)
ssmc2
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September 12, 2015, 05:09:54 PM

Lmao $5 drop and queue the socks like clockwork.  Roll Eyes Bored much?
LMGTFY
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September 12, 2015, 05:24:48 PM

Lmao $5 drop and queue the socks like clockwork.  Roll Eyes Bored much?

I'm developing a theory that for every occurrence of the phrase "ponzi bags" in the unread posts on the speculation board - BTC/USD has fallen by $1.

I'll report back here when I've discovered the equivalent for a $1 rise.

Obviously these are lagging indicators but I feel they have great potential.
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September 12, 2015, 05:53:12 PM

The avalanche of troll bears makes me uncomfortable being a real bear, wtf is happening? Angry
phoenix1
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September 12, 2015, 05:59:37 PM

The avalanche of troll bears makes me uncomfortable being a real bear, wtf is happening? Angry

Seems like this is Chopsy's reply to not being allowed to post (porn) pics any more from new accounts ... spam the forum with dumb new threads. Very sad ...

Easy solution ... new members can neither post images nor start topics  Wink
Please implement this as soon as possible  Smiley
ChartBuddy
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September 12, 2015, 06:02:12 PM

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macsga
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September 12, 2015, 06:02:44 PM

Truly wonder -after the latest newbie image ban on the forum- when will Theymos will implement my other proposal... In a way, I'm happy this continues. Maybe we're moving towards much better things regarding NSFW & trolling posts... Roll Eyes
Norway
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September 12, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

The avalanche of troll bears makes me uncomfortable being a real bear, wtf is happening? Angry

Seems like this is Chopsy's reply to not being allowed to post (porn) pics any more from new accounts ... spam the forum with dumb new threads. Very sad ...

Easy solution ... new members can neither post images nor start topics  Wink
Please implement this as soon as possible  Smiley

+1

Use the "Report to moderator" link. Sometimes very effective  Wink
Fatman3001
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September 12, 2015, 06:06:41 PM

The avalanche of troll bears makes me uncomfortable being a real bear, wtf is happening? Angry

Seems like this is Chopsy's reply to not being allowed to post (porn) pics any more from new accounts ... spam the forum with dumb new threads. Very sad ...

Easy solution ... new members can neither post images nor start topics  Wink
Please implement this as soon as possible  Smiley

It took him long enough. Weird that he didn't realize earlier that this is the official "Lambie Zoo". Mods let him play around here so he'll keep away from the rest of the forum.
Norway
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September 12, 2015, 06:10:12 PM

The avalanche of troll bears makes me uncomfortable being a real bear, wtf is happening? Angry

Seems like this is Chopsy's reply to not being allowed to post (porn) pics any more from new accounts ... spam the forum with dumb new threads. Very sad ...

Easy solution ... new members can neither post images nor start topics  Wink
Please implement this as soon as possible  Smiley

It took him long enough. Weird that he didn't realize earlier that this is the official "Lambie Zoo". Mods let him play around here so he'll keep away from the rest of the forum.

Not so sure about that. I got 20+ of his latest posts removed by simply clicking "Report to moderator". You don't even have to type an explanation. The moderators get it.

If a moderator is alert, they disappear pretty quick  Wink
Hunyadi
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September 12, 2015, 06:14:06 PM

WTF is going on? Who has time for all this trolling?
Norway
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September 12, 2015, 06:14:54 PM

WTF is going on? Who has time for all this trolling?
Lambie is probably paid to do it.
JorgeStolfi
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September 12, 2015, 06:14:56 PM

Can you imagine a design of cryptocurrency that would be to your liking, or is the concept as a whole damned to failure in your mind?

Tough question. There are several "features" of bitcoin that seemed good ideas at the time; but now, in hindsight, they seem to be mistakes, and Satoshi himself would probably agree.

One of them is the expectation of huge increases in value, resulting from the fixed cap and the assumption that it would replace other means of payment.  That turned bitcoin into an allegedly safe and lucrative investment, and a speculation tool.  Most of the big problems that bitcoin is facing today are a consequence of that undue retargeting of the project.

So, one problem that would have to be fixed is making it unappealing to hoarders and speculators.  

Then the value of 1 coin would be determined by its use for e-payments, according to the money velocity equation.

Another problem is ensuring that its value stays in a bounded range, so that ordinary payments can be expressed without too many zeros before or after the point.  Say, between 0.01 and 10 USD.  In the first extreme case (about the value of 1 yen) one would not need decimal fractions, and do all accounting with integers. In the second extreme case, one could truncate after 3 decimals (i.e. use the "milly" as Americans use the penny).

A stable value would seem to attract hoarders and investors, but hopefully the two goals can be achieved with built-in demurrage (negative interest).  Namely, each UTXO loses value at (say) 2% per year, so you can spend only 0.98 BTC of that 1 BTC that you earned 1 year ago.  Those 0.02 BTC would implicitly go to the "Bitcoin Treasury" and would be redistributed as block rewards (so the block reward could remain constant forever while the total amount of coins in circulation would still be bounded.)  

Hopefully that negative interest would be enough to dissuade hoarders and speculators.  

However, in order to keep the value stable, the issuance (e.g. by block rewards) would have to be adjusted to the volume of payments and to the mean time between payments with the same coin. I have no idea how that could be done in a way that would resist manipulation by hackers (computational or financial).  It seems that another Satoshi would have to come out with another ingenious invention...

Another problem is the centralization of mining.  That could be fixed by keeping the block rewards too small to make mining into a profitable industrial activity.  But that may conflict with the need to put more coins in circulation as adoption grows.

Other problems are the centralization of all transactions of the world in one blockchain.  That design limits the scalability of the network and makes nodes expensive to operate.  That could be fixed perhaps by having a large number of separate blockchains, each containing the transactions of a certain subset of (say) 1000 addresses.  Then a 1-in, 1-out transaction would have to be recorded in only two of these small blockchains.

Other technical problems include rewarding all players (not just miners), ensuring that every transaction gets processed, replacing the UTXO-based accounting to the balance-based accounting that banks use, etc.

There are also non-technical problems like anonymity, non-reversibility, lost coins, legal jurisdiction, ... but each would be a long discussion in itself...
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September 12, 2015, 06:17:36 PM

WTF is going on? Who has time for all this trolling?
Lambie is probably paid to do it.

Yes, it's starting to look like that is probable.
noobtrader
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September 12, 2015, 06:27:44 PM

Can you imagine a design of cryptocurrency that would be to your liking, or is the concept as a whole damned to failure in your mind?

....
A stable value would seem to attract hoarders and investors, but hopefully the two goals can be achieved with built-in demurrage (negative interest).  Namely, each UTXO loses value at (say) 2% per year, so you can spend only 0.98 BTC of that 1 BTC that you earned 1 year ago.  Those 0.02 BTC would implicitly go to the "Bitcoin Treasury" and would be redistributed as block rewards (so the block reward could remain constant forever while the total amount of coins in circulation would still be bounded.)  

Hopefully that negative interest would be enough to dissuade hoarders and speculators.  
.....

ok, so you want to reward only the miner but tax the coin holder ? then who will buy and hold this coin ? if no one buy the coin who want mine this coin.... ? i dont get it ?
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September 12, 2015, 06:49:19 PM

There actually IS an "internal" value inside every bitcoin and it's the amount of resources (computers/miners/electricity) to build its block. As time goes by, the aforementioned "value" will rise because the difficulty to build one will be greater and the block reward will be halved.

By that argument, anything that required lots of resources to build, and cannot be easily replicated, should be worth as much as those resources, and gain value with time.  But there are many obvious counter-examples to this claim.  There are many old abandoned buildings that cost millions to build, may cost even more to build today, but now have negative value -- namely, the land is worth less with them on it than without them.

Quote
you fail to understand what would it take for somebody to use something as a currency. The keyword is "trust".

I know that quite well. (It is one of the two two only things that I managed to learn in my Economics course in grad school.) But trust is not physical, it is a state of mind.  Physically, you could in theory change the mind of all 1 million bitcoin holders, so that they would lose their trust and taste of bitcoin, with a rather modest expenditure of energy -- much less than what you need today to mine one bitcoin.  The difficult part, in practice, is getting that energy applied to the right synapses in their brains...

(The right words and images could perhaps do the trick; but trolling is still not a science, just a crude art...  Grin)
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