Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[mavericklm]

Poll
Question:    Core Vs XT

same shit for more than a week? nothing new?

whale!!! missing a fat one to dump 50k btc around here

[JorgeStolfi]

"Hoarders" is just a disparaging term for savers. Any economy needs savings for capital formation.

"Saver" i a very general term.  In the context of this discussion a "hoarder" is one who saves by colelcting a currency. Not meant to be disparaging -- although that is usually not a wise way to save.

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[billyjoeallen]

"Hoarders" is just a disparaging term for savers. Any economy needs savings for capital formation.

"Saver" i a very general term.  In the context of this discussion a "hoarder" is one who saves by colelcting a currency. Not meant to be disparaging -- although that is usually not a wise way to save.

Collecting a currency is a way of saving that ensures a certain amount of liquidity and flexibility. I own some land that may turn out to be a better investment, but I can't sell a small piece of it if I need some cash and I certainly can't sell it fast.  Collecting the Real sure as shit ain't a wise way to save, I'll give you that.

If there is no incentive for people to consume less than they produce, most people obviously won't. The more incentive to save, the more people will save and the more they will save.  That doesn't mean the capital is idle. It means that they are lending it out to someone who has a use for it now, or they are holding and communicating a price signal in the market saying that the stuff they could have bought but chose not to is too expensive. 

Capital makes work more productive. A lumberjack with a chainsaw is more productive than one with an axe. Capital only comes from deferred consumption. Sustainable economic growth can only come from differed consumption. Having some central banksters or government bureaucrats distorting the price signals only causes harm.

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[noobtrader]

A cryptocurrency with demurrage tax would fall directly on holders, and therefore hopefully discourage hoarding.  encourage dumping.

there i fix that for you

[Ibian]

Bitcoin was created to be exactly what it is and to be used in whatever way one sees fit. Why are people still engaging that argument, and those people, as if it and they had any merit?

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[fonsie]

"Hoarders" is just a disparaging term for savers. Any economy needs savings for capital formation.

"Saver" i a very general term.  In the context of this discussion a "hoarder" is one who saves by colelcting a currency. Not meant to be disparaging -- although that is usually not a wise way to save.

You have been with us since 2013, nobody calls you up for interviews, nobody really cares what you have to say...so just admit that your attempt for some fame has failed yet again.

Let us be! WE NEED NO STINKING COMPUTER SCIENTIST HERE!!!!!!!!

[Fatman3001]

"Hoarders" is just a disparaging term for savers. Any economy needs savings for capital formation.

"Saver" i a very general term.  In the context of this discussion a "hoarder" is one who saves by colelcting a currency. Not meant to be disparaging -- although that is usually not a wise way to save.

You have been with us since 2013, nobody calls you up for interviews, nobody really cares what you have to say...so just admit that your attempt for some fame has failed yet again.

Let us be! WE NEED NO STINKING COMPUTER SCIENTIST HERE!!!!!!!!

Yeah! Who needs science when we have divine invisible magic coins!?!!?!!

[keewee]

I think Jorge needs to have a read through this: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

It's a good rundown of some common misconceptions

[RoadStress]

JorgeStolfi is a special breed. He doesn't fully understand Bitcoin and he likes to argue.

Bitcoin was created to be a currency, not another speculative asset- and dividend-free investment fund (or pyramid scheme, its more honest name).

Who are you to state that bitcoin was created to be a currency? Are you Satoshi? Bitcoin is a protocol.

Economists have know for 500 years that a currency must have some inflation, otherwise people will hoard it and it will not be available for use as a currency.

Yes. Let's apply things that were used 500 years ago because we are too laze to innovate them. Good advice!

You cant use a wallet every time you want to think about the price of something.  "Is 0.00023 Foocoins too much for a cup of coffee?" "Is 0.03 milliFoocoins more or less than 3200 Footoshis?"   

The smallest unit of the currency should be worth maybe 1/10 of the smallest thing that is worth buying separately.

So if you can't do something then nobody should do it? Where is the logic in that? Considering that this technology is only a couple of years old then it is normal to take a bit of time to develop the best tools to use it. In the future the wallets will be much smarter than today. Just like you refrigerator, but not like you.

You have been with us since 2013, nobody calls you up for interviews, nobody really cares what you have to say...so just admit that your attempt for some fame has failed yet again.

Let us be! WE NEED NO STINKING COMPUTER SCIENTIST HERE!!!!!!!!

It is free for him to keep trying. Also fun for us to see him failing over and over!

[Hopalong]

Can you imagine a design of cryptocurrency that would be to your liking, or is the concept as a whole damned to failure in your mind?

Hopefully that negative interest would be enough to dissuade hoarders and speculators.  

Most of this forum think the inflation of fiat currencies is a bad thing and that bitcoin has solved a problem with its fixed supply. They dont understand that inflation is a very important tool to keep investments going.


Imagine your national currency without inflation. The money you have in your pocket would never loose value. Seems nice if you dont have a lot of money but what happen if you had a lot of money. You could just hoard the money and live of ot for the rest of your life. There would be no interest in investing to make more money since investing is a risk.

With todays inflating fiat there is no point in hoarding money. Your money supply loose value if you just hoard them. You have to get the money out there and work for you. Either by investing or putting them in a bank and let them invest for you.

A fixed supply economy like bitcoin would be the end of investing. Why invest if you can just hodl to increase your holdings.

[ChartBuddy]

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Explanation

[PoolMinor]

@ Jorge and others that still don't get it.

bitcoin: The price we pay to store information on the blockchain.

Bitcoin: The protocol that employs the open source ledger of information that is secured via payment of bitcoin.

[Elwar]

"Hoarders" is just a disparaging term for savers. Any economy needs savings for capital formation.

"Saver" i a very general term.  In the context of this discussion a "hoarder" is one who saves by colelcting a currency. Not meant to be disparaging -- although that is usually not a wise way to save.

Jorge and other Keynesians hate people saving their money because then nobody has a safety net. Without a safety net this necessitates the government to provide it. And there is nothing Keynesians love more than government force. The government should control the currency, the government should make all of the decisions. For professors that live in their little socialist bubble where they are the top dogs in the socialist sphere they see it as quite the reasonable system. Forgetting that outside of their little bubble there is the world of the free market that keeps their little bubble going.

As you have all of this knowledge of Bitcoin but, like every banker and other professor like the "blockchain" but not Bitcoin (mainly because it is more like gold than the dollar) then I suggest you go create your own Federal Reserve Coin. Being the creator you can live under even more eliteness because you will be in control of it. Change the currency all the time so it matches up with the dollar, add inflation so that people don't hoard it (even though Bitcoin currently has a 12% inflation rate and yet people still hold long term). Create your masterpiece and go to the bankers for their support. Get rid of anonymity, have the government issue trackers for anyone buying so that everyone's money can be tracked and people can be properly spied on to make sure they're buying the "right" things (approved by the government). Maybe the banks will even run the mining for you so that no miners get profit. What a grand utopia of Keynesianism and centralized control.

[billyjoeallen]

Can you imagine a design of cryptocurrency that would be to your liking, or is the concept as a whole damned to failure in your mind?

Hopefully that negative interest would be enough to dissuade hoarders and speculators.  

Most of this forum think the inflation of fiat currencies is a bad thing and that bitcoin has solved a problem with its fixed supply. They dont understand that inflation is a very important tool to keep investments going.


Imagine your national currency without inflation. The money you have in your pocket would never loose value. Seems nice if you dont have a lot of money but what happen if you had a lot of money. You could just hoard the money and live of ot for the rest of your life. There would be no interest in investing to make more money since investing is a risk.

With todays inflating fiat there is no point in hoarding money. Your money supply loose value if you just hoard them. You have to get the money out there and work for you. Either by investing or putting them in a bank and let them invest for you.

A fixed supply economy like bitcoin would be the end of investing. Why invest if you can just hodl to increase your holdings.

Perhaps you didn't read up where I explained that "hoarding" is savings and it is absolutely essential for a healthy economy.  If there is no incentive to consume less than one produces, an entire economy's wealth is stagnant at best and consumed in one generation at worst.  We are currently watching this play out on a global scale.

It's laughable to claim that there would be no investing with a deflationary currency. The late nineteenth century in America saw prices fall almost everywhere and a massive increase in the standard of living. People would still spend a currency even if they knew it would go up in value forever because nobody lives forever. They just wouldn't spend it frivolously. That's a bad thing? We all need billboard-sized flat screen television sets and a new car every two years?

[Fatman3001]

[btccashacc]

waiting 230$