Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[noobtrader]

A cryptocurrency with demurrage tax would fall directly on holders, and therefore hopefully discourage hoarding.  encourage dumping.

there i fix that for you

There will not be any dumping if there was no hoarding in the first place.

(And, as I wrote, that is one of the problems that bitcoin has: so much of bitcoin's mass is hoarded, that the price could crash in a blink if even only 10% of the hoards were to be dumped.)

(as your scenario)

miner will get the coin and dump it, as long as there are buyer exist there is.

edit : unless you want to put one centralized entity which back up the system by  buying all coin at certain price and selling at certain price (hello paypall v2.0 ).  

[Fatman3001]

My eventual point, if it isn't clear, is that the price is low. If you want to cost average a lower price then buy more. But if you already understand the current price does not reflect the future price, then you have lost nothing. (unless you sell BTC for fiat the, value has not changed)

I'm sorry for lashing out, let me just put it this way:   I WANT THE FUTURE TODAY!!! I WANNA BUY A BOAT!!!!

I am aware that this discussion is clearly off-topic now, sorry readers.

---

I was until very recently very attached to the price and the loss of opportunity in selling the last of my portfolio in December 2013. And yes, I have felt the loss of ~90% of my portfolio value since then. But then I discovered the true use of this commodity, until we break the cycle of using the $, €, ¥, or £ as a measurement of success we will continue to not look past the brilliance and the reason for the supply to be limited and the transaction fees to be the most important aspect of the design. The BTC can be used over and over again from your wallet address to another of your wallet addresses, your cost of transfer is what allows for information to be stored in the blockchain (this is why you paid for BTC to make data plots on the blockchain).

I'm married. My measure of success is in fiat. Lots of it.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

He be chillin. Waiting to short from $3500.

Ah, a man of leisure. A day on the water is a day well spent. Bulls of 2014 can do it too.

~ Signal crackles with analog distortion. ~

Today, intrepid young capitalists discuss the merits of depreciating assets, boats and bitcoin... Here's Tom with the weather...

Back in your day we still had water

[Norway]

Fork this, Gavin!

Shit, you must be hodling moar coinz than me! 

[Norway]

My eventual point, if it isn't clear, is that the price is low. If you want to cost average a lower price then buy more. But if you already understand the current price does not reflect the future price, then you have lost nothing. (unless you sell BTC for fiat the, value has not changed)

I'm sorry for lashing out, let me just put it this way:   I WANT THE FUTURE TODAY!!! I WANNA BUY A BOAT!!!!

I am aware that this discussion is clearly off-topic now, sorry readers.

---

I was until very recently very attached to the price and the loss of opportunity in selling the last of my portfolio in December 2013. And yes, I have felt the loss of ~90% of my portfolio value since then. But then I discovered the true use of this commodity, until we break the cycle of using the $, €, ¥, or £ as a measurement of success we will continue to not look past the brilliance and the reason for the supply to be limited and the transaction fees to be the most important aspect of the design. The BTC can be used over and over again from your wallet address to another of your wallet addresses, your cost of transfer is what allows for information to be stored in the blockchain (this is why you paid for BTC to make data plots on the blockchain).

I'm married. My measure of success is in fiat. Lots of it.

Like this?

[Fatman3001]

My eventual point, if it isn't clear, is that the price is low. If you want to cost average a lower price then buy more. But if you already understand the current price does not reflect the future price, then you have lost nothing. (unless you sell BTC for fiat the, value has not changed)

I'm sorry for lashing out, let me just put it this way:   I WANT THE FUTURE TODAY!!! I WANNA BUY A BOAT!!!!

I am aware that this discussion is clearly off-topic now, sorry readers.

---

I was until very recently very attached to the price and the loss of opportunity in selling the last of my portfolio in December 2013. And yes, I have felt the loss of ~90% of my portfolio value since then. But then I discovered the true use of this commodity, until we break the cycle of using the $, €, ¥, or £ as a measurement of success we will continue to not look past the brilliance and the reason for the supply to be limited and the transaction fees to be the most important aspect of the design. The BTC can be used over and over again from your wallet address to another of your wallet addresses, your cost of transfer is what allows for information to be stored in the blockchain (this is why you paid for BTC to make data plots on the blockchain).

I'm married. My measure of success is in fiat. Lots of it.

Like this?

Well, a couple of those "because we don't want to waste money on expensive cars".

Fork this, Gavin!

Shit, you must be hodling moar coinz than me! 

Doubt it, but Adam said 32k.

[Norway]

Well, a couple of those "because we don't want to waste money on expensive cars".

Keep 'em in a brain wallet, not in a will. Then you are the man in the house!
If it's ok with her 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Coin
Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

Jorge and other Keynesians hate people saving their money because then nobody has a safety net. Without a safety net this necessitates the government to provide it. And there is nothing Keynesians love more than government force.

I don't know enough about Keynes (or Economics) to tell whether I am a Keynesian.  But I certainly do not "hate people saving their money", quite the opposite:  I wish people (and my compatriots especially) would consume less and invest more.  But I would like to see them choose productive investments; and hoarding currency (or gold) is not productive.

Hoarding currency is bad for the individual, because all currency will lose value eventually. (As you well know, I am sure that will happen to bitcoin, too, even if there may be another bubble or two.)  Hoarding currency is also bad for society because it harms the currency, by destabilizing its value.

add inflation so that people don't hoard it (even though Bitcoin currently has a 12% inflation rate and yet people still hold long term).

As any bitcoiner will tell you, that 12% inflation does not discourage hoarders because they know it is temporary.  Besides, even in the short and medium term it is (hopefully) offset by the increase in demand. (That is what happened until 2013, in fits and starts; but may not be the case anymore.)

Let me reming people that this discussion started when someone asked for my idea of a good cryptocurrency.  Well, among other things, a good cryptocurrency should be designed so that no one will be tempted to hoard it.

[Norway]

Doubt it, but Adam said 32k.

I say 10% and 570k

[Fatman3001]

Well, a couple of those "because we don't want to waste money on expensive cars".

- pic of stupid prick -

Keep 'em in a brain wallet, not in a will. Then you are the man in the house!
If it's ok with her  

Oh I'm the man in the house. It just doesn't mean shit anymore.

[JayJuanGee]

I think that my various responses had the right tone.   I have been reading his posts for at least a year and a half. 

 There is NO personal attack contained within my responses... a little colorful language and to suggest that someone is simplifying and misleading is NOT a personal attack, it is an attack on his generally disingenuous presentation and he should know better regarding a variety of his points, that he is full of shit... and that is NOT a personal attack..   

Or complexifying and misleading, in any event, he's doing it for the lulz.

Fatman3001 - I believe that we largely agree. 

From time to time over the past 18 months, I have engaged with Stofli, and sometimes he will stand up fairly vigorously to his various trolling arguments, and then other times, he seems to engage in a passive aggressive bitchism by NOT responding, especially to materially relevant points.  Accordingly, sometimes, his oversimplification is to leave out material and relevant facts.  At other times, he (Stofli) brings in a bunch of irrelevant arguments and facts to make something more complex with his discussion of the various irrelevancies and asserting tat those various irrelevancies are super important. 

So yes, I agree, sometimes we also see complexifying tactics, too, from Stofli.

In either event, his posts seem to be designed in part to incite strong responses from other members because as an alleged professor, he should know a lot better than to engage in such fantasy, disinformation tactics, which causes me to suspect that he is likely financially profiting, in a variety of ways from the amount of time that he is spending on this forum and in other related bitcoin discussions.

[JorgeStolfi]

Economists have know for 500 years that a currency must have some inflation, otherwise people will hoard it and it will not be available for use as a currency.

What economists advocated this position in 1515?

I was thinking of Gresham's Law (aka Copernicus's Law).  Sorry if I got the date wrong by a century or so; my childhood memories are beginning to fade. 

[Fatman3001]

Fantasizing about *buying* a huge speedboat as BTC continues to tank.  Like making wedding plans on the tilting promenade deck of the Titanic.
Deliciously, perversely grotesque
*Fatman, you really don't want a forty(+?)ft (pleasure) speedboat, not even if you live on the water somewhere in BVI & shit gold nuggets.

Don't worry TwatTony I know a guy who knows a guy who really likes to polish boats.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Doubt it, but Adam said 32k.

I say 10% and 570k

Why we can't have nice things.

[Fatman3001]

I think that my various responses had the right tone.   I have been reading his posts for at least a year and a half. 

 There is NO personal attack contained within my responses... a little colorful language and to suggest that someone is simplifying and misleading is NOT a personal attack, it is an attack on his generally disingenuous presentation and he should know better regarding a variety of his points, that he is full of shit... and that is NOT a personal attack..   

Or complexifying and misleading, in any event, he's doing it for the lulz.

Fatman3001 - I believe that we largely agree. 

From time to time over the past 18 months, I have engaged with Stofli, and sometimes he will stand up fairly vigorously to his various trolling arguments, and then other times, he seems to engage in a passive aggressive bitchism by NOT responding, especially to materially relevant points.  Accordingly, sometimes, his oversimplification is to leave out material and relevant facts.  At other times, he (Stofli) brings in a bunch of irrelevant arguments and facts to make something more complex with his discussion of the various irrelevancies and asserting tat those various irrelevancies are super important. 

So yes, I agree, sometimes we also see complexifying tactics, too, from Stofli.

In either event, his posts seem to be designed in part to incite strong responses from other members because as an alleged professor, he should know a lot better than to engage in such fantasy, disinformation tactics, which causes me to suspect that he is likely financially profiting, in a variety of ways from the amount of time that he is spending on this forum and in other related bitcoin discussions.

It wasn't meant as a correction. I'm sorry if it came out that way.

Professors can be assholes too, believe me. He knows what he's doing.

I've read your posts from before you drank the juice of brevity so If you want to have a go at stolfi you're more than welcome. I know you can handle it.

[JayJuanGee]

....
My point though is he appears to have many people quite riled up and that's unfortunate. His points simply need to be deconstructed and the flaws pointed out. But if it's a waste of time doing that (and I haven't been in this thread for more than a few months) then probably best to just let him post and not respond.

Either way I don't find his posts to be trollish in their nature (but maybe his "graciousness" is hiding a whole other agenda I'm not aware of) and I appreciate he's expressing his view and that's perfectly okay.

I agree. The only ones who get really riled up by Jorge are the guys who believe that bitcoin will *somehow* make them incredibly wealthy, but who cannot quite understand the mechanics of how it will happen. When anyone pokes wholes in that balloon, they fight back angrier than a bag full of cats.

But I've always found his posts interesting, if perhaps following a set narative. Jorg feel bitcoin will fail because of inherent flaws in its design.

 I, on the other hand, feel it just might succeed in spite of them!  

Your giving Jorge too much credit, and also, you seem to buying into his strawmen arguments to categorize a variety of guys as seeking exorbitant personal wealth as being their sole motivation.  In fact, when someone invests in something, including bitcoin, they are investing because, in part, they expect the value to go up in the future... accordingly they expect it to be good store of wealth.  So in the end, there is some expectation for return on investment.... whether that is to break even or to gain a few percentage points per year or to gain 10% per year or even 100% per year, those kinds of expectations can vary depending on perspectives about the past performance of BTC or based on various current and ongoing investments into the BTC infrastructure.

To narrowly assert that a considerable category of bulls are emotional because they are overly greedy, is to sit too much in judgement while employing insufficient facts to the particulars of each case.  Even if you take me for example, over the past year and a half, I have shared quite a bit details about my personal investments in bitcoin and my strategy etc; however, guys here still are NOT going to know exactly some of my personal financial details and my exact distribution of assets, because some of this is too detailed an NOT really necessary to disclose in order to participate in various genuine and meaningful form discussions related to bitcoin investments.

Another motivator of a lot of bulls, deals with hedging their bets against various fiat systems... and in fact, such a BTC investor does NOT need to be fanatical get rich type person in order to identify considerable value in bitcoin concerning its potential to be a hedge against various fiat systems... accordingly, their investment portfolio or maybe quite a bit of their income stream involves various fiat systems and various fiat valuations  - and in that regard, investing in BTC can offset some of the risk involved in their portion of investment into fiat systems... whether guys consider 1% or less to be a hedge or some guys may consider 50% or more to be a hedge, which is a bit more extreme, but potentially reasonable depending on the guys set of values, experiences, risk profile and set of expectations regarding the future.

[Norway]

I think that my various responses had the right tone.   I have been reading his posts for at least a year and a half. 

 There is NO personal attack contained within my responses... a little colorful language and to suggest that someone is simplifying and misleading is NOT a personal attack, it is an attack on his generally disingenuous presentation and he should know better regarding a variety of his points, that he is full of shit... and that is NOT a personal attack..   

Or complexifying and misleading, in any event, he's doing it for the lulz.

Fatman3001 - I believe that we largely agree. 

From time to time over the past 18 months, I have engaged with Stofli, and sometimes he will stand up fairly vigorously to his various trolling arguments, and then other times, he seems to engage in a passive aggressive bitchism by NOT responding, especially to materially relevant points.  Accordingly, sometimes, his oversimplification is to leave out material and relevant facts.  At other times, he (Stofli) brings in a bunch of irrelevant arguments and facts to make something more complex with his discussion of the various irrelevancies and asserting tat those various irrelevancies are super important. 

So yes, I agree, sometimes we also see complexifying tactics, too, from Stofli.

In either event, his posts seem to be designed in part to incite strong responses from other members because as an alleged professor, he should know a lot better than to engage in such fantasy, disinformation tactics, which causes me to suspect that he is likely financially profiting, in a variety of ways from the amount of time that he is spending on this forum and in other related bitcoin discussions.

No doubt, Stofli has a hidden agenda. I have switch between ignoring and not ignoring him many times, because he sometimes has interesting links. His perspective is the same as prof. Bitcorn, but I don't report him to the moderators.... which I do with Lambie! With great success! I have removed 30+ of his sock puppets with the help of the moderators lately. The last farmed profile killed today was 2 weeks old without any activity until today. And now, "nonfatTony" which is brand new, will disappear within seconds!  

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Gavin is back

so if I write code that makes 8MB blocks propagate as fast as 0.2MB blocks you'll support increasing the cap?