Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

if you know how much power the network is consuming (about a gigawatt or 1 million kilowatts)
and you know how much power costs ($0.10/kWh)
and you now how many transactions are being processed (~4TPS)
We can figure out how much each transaction really costs unsubsidized by speculators.

@ $0.10/kWh X (1,000,000 kilowatts)= $100,000/hr

4 transactions/sec X (3600seconds/hr) = 14,400 transactions/hr

$100,000/14400 transactions = $6.94 PER TRANSACTION

Feel free to check my math, but that's about how efficient the bitcoin network is currently at maximum capacity. If there are fewer transactions, it is even less efficient.  Security and decentralization are very important factors, but this is not competitive with ACH and SWIFT, or even credit cards.  The way to increase efficiency is by massively increasing the number of transactions while keeping the total power costs almost the same.

THAT is why we want to lift the blocksize limit.  We have a very very expensive, inefficient network. Security is great, but too much armor on your armored truck will limit it's cargo capacity. 

A more correct number would be approx 400MW for the entire network and $0.05/kWh. You can't mine competitively with$0.10/kWh and efficiency is much greater than 0.71J/GH.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Jules: Lookit! I given a million block chains a million max block size bumps and it isn't the same thing.
Vincent: It's the same ball park.
Jules: It ain't no ball park, neither!

[ingiltere]

It couldn't hold at 400's, I expect a small dump to 380's again. It's not that strong right now.
Bitstamp 395 $
BTC-e 397.63 $
Bitfinex 397.58 $
Huobi 417.24 $

[marcus_of_augustus]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

Who? Who specifically do you believe is being paid for this?? It's time you name names.

[bargainbin]

There has been too much violence... Too much pain... But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away.
Give me your coin, the code, the miners, and the whole infrastructure, and I'll spare your lives.
Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands.
Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.*click*~drops mike~

[billyjoeallen]

If users are going to be put off by, say, 10-20 cents in fees, then perhaps they can buy plenty of lube and go get fucked by the banks and the paypals instead. Having 1-2-3 cents in fees and complaining that it's the end of the world if we go upwards and that it's crippling adoption, when RL banking payments are charging the hell out of us (and they are being used everyday by billions of people) and we get fucked by them constantly, is somewhat hypocritic.

Besides the main selling point of BTC shouldn't be an addiction to near-zero cost txs (which we know that is not sustainable in the long run), but rather its decentralized nature and its advantages over central banks (as a token/currency) and commercial banks in terms of controlling your money, paying without trusted 3rd parties which could withhold or confiscate your money, the non reversibility of (confirmed) txs etc etc.

It's not 20 cents in fees. It's $8 and it's being subsidized by you and me, the buyers of BTC.

And it's not decentralized with 75% of the mining in China.  We are operating with the required permission of The People's Democratic Republic of China.

[Mrpumperitis]

Maybe ETH is helping with some of BTC's issues.............

Etherium new comers are those that missed BTC price rise. They hope that ETH will repeat BTC spectacular price rise. But will be very disappointed.

lol noob
i had many btc bought at $50 and sold at $900...
ETH i bought some from around 0.90 and it went to over $7....now do the maths    its just as spectacular !!

[BldSwtTrs]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

You are so wrong and so afraid of the reality that you have to deluded yourself about the motive of people who disagree with you.

Nobody is paying anyone (besides Blockstream paying the Core devs).

[hdbuck]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

Who? Who specifically do you believe is being paid for this?? It's time you name names.

worse is you actually get nothing for all this bullshit you spill all over the boards here...

pitiful.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

If users are going to be put off by, say, 10-20 cents in fees, then perhaps they can buy plenty of lube and go get fucked by the banks and the paypals instead. Having 1-2-3 cents in fees and complaining that it's the end of the world if we go upwards and that it's crippling adoption, when RL banking payments are charging the hell out of us (and they are being used everyday by billions of people) and we get fucked by them constantly, is somewhat hypocritic.

Besides the main selling point of BTC shouldn't be an addiction to near-zero cost txs (which we know that is not sustainable in the long run), but rather its decentralized nature and its advantages over central banks (as a token/currency) and commercial banks in terms of controlling your money, paying without trusted 3rd parties which could withhold or confiscate your money, the non reversibility of (confirmed) txs etc etc.

It's not 20 cents in fees. It's $8 and it's being subsidized by you and me, the buyers of BTC.

And it's not decentralized with 75% of the mining in China.  We are operating under the required consent of The People's Democratic Republic of China.

The centralization of mining power doesn't ipso facto mean the centralization of Bitcoin, does it? Do you think it does?

[bargainbin]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

Who? Who specifically do you believe is being paid for this?? It's time you name names.

worse is you actually get nothing for all this bullshit you spill all over the boards here...

pitiful.

Be still my dog of war. I understand your pain. We've all lost something we love. But we do it my way. Fear is our ally. The Bitcoin will be ours. Then you shall have your revenge.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I see all the trolls and paid shills are back working hard on Monday ... wonder how long until their Crassic contracts run out?

Who? Who specifically do you believe is being paid for this?? It's time you name names.

worse is you actually get nothing for all this bullshit you spill all over the boards here...

pitiful.

What? What bullshit specifically? It's time for you to post posts.

[JayJuanGee]

Maybe Gavin is feeling a bit burned in his recent attempts at being a "benevolent dictator" (his words, not mine) and even Gavin having had asserted that a benevolent dictator would be a good thing for bitcoin in the short term.  In September 2015, he was going around asserting that Mike Hearn would be the benevolent dictator of XT (assuming XT would be hardforked into becoming the "new" bitcoin).  I mean, jesus fucking christ, a guy has to lose some credibility in the community by the subsequent rage quit of someone who just a few months earlier would have had the potential of becoming the "benevolent dictator" of the "new" bitcoin.

Anyhow, Gavin comes off as a bit bitter about bitcoin consensus and bitcoin governance and seems to strongly suggest that bitcoin's governance has to be fixed, but then is a bit dodgy about that being the problem and continuing to insist that a technical fix is an emergency, while at the same time taking digs at the "broken" nature of bitcoin's governance .

In any event, his various assumptions and presentations of issues are losing their coherence and interferes with his objectivity and credibility as a trustworthy speaker.

Bitcoin governance does not have to "be fixed" in any way.
It is working perfectly and any attempt at highjacking it will miserably fail.

That is my sense, too. 

In the past six months or so, there were a lot of various misleading assertions that XT and Classic were variations of technical fixes to bitcoin, when in fact they were really aimed at fixing some non-existent governance problem... and in the meantime creating a controversy, drama and media attention and forum trolls (shills) in order to make it appear as if there really was some kind of governance problem in bitcoin.


Maybe a bit of brilliance, but in the end, it seems as if a quite a few people are catching on that the controversy was purposefully created.

[bitebits]

Basically if you are not happy with bitcoin feel free to fork off into whatever altcoin you deem useful or valuable, you surely can migrate to some blockchain technology 2.0 vaporware.

Nobody is forcing you to use bitcoin, nobody cares about what you want.

You are free.

I think you just invented Classic, XT, Unlimited, Bitpay (and hopefully many more to come).

[JayJuanGee]

If users are going to be put off by, say, 10-20 cents in fees, then perhaps they can buy plenty of lube and go get fucked by the banks and the paypals instead. Having 1-2-3 cents in fees and complaining that it's the end of the world if we go upwards and that it's crippling adoption, when RL banking payments are charging the hell out of us (and they are being used everyday by billions of people) and we get fucked by them constantly, is somewhat hypocritic.

Besides the main selling point of BTC shouldn't be an addiction to near-zero cost txs (which we know that is not sustainable in the long run), but rather its decentralized nature and its advantages over central banks (as a token/currency) and commercial banks in terms of controlling your money, paying without trusted 3rd parties which could withhold or confiscate your money, the non reversibility of (confirmed) txs etc etc.

It's not 20 cents in fees. It's $8 and it's being subsidized by you and me, the buyers of BTC.

And it's not decentralized with 75% of the mining in China.  We are operating with the required permission of The People's Democratic Republic of China.

Actually, there seems to be a decent point, that mining costs are not just for the present block being mined.. but for the future and for the speculation.

  Wow...

In other words, the calculations are not so simple because the amount paid by each miner to mine is not a cost born on users as individuals or even in the aggregate.

Yes, some of those speculations will win, and some will not.. and over time, some miners will stay in the space and some will exit.

[bargainbin]

...
Actually, there seems to be a decent point, that mining costs are not just for the present block being mined.. but for the future and for the speculation.

That's right, because now that we've mined those coins, Bitcoin is secure &  we'll never have to mine again. Far out!

[AlexGR]

If users are going to be put off by, say, 10-20 cents in fees, then perhaps they can buy plenty of lube and go get fucked by the banks and the paypals instead. Having 1-2-3 cents in fees and complaining that it's the end of the world if we go upwards and that it's crippling adoption, when RL banking payments are charging the hell out of us (and they are being used everyday by billions of people) and we get fucked by them constantly, is somewhat hypocritic.

Besides the main selling point of BTC shouldn't be an addiction to near-zero cost txs (which we know that is not sustainable in the long run), but rather its decentralized nature and its advantages over central banks (as a token/currency) and commercial banks in terms of controlling your money, paying without trusted 3rd parties which could withhold or confiscate your money, the non reversibility of (confirmed) txs etc etc.

It's not 20 cents in fees. It's $8 and it's being subsidized by you and me, the buyers of BTC.

We are talking about fees, not subsidy.

And it's not decentralized with 75% of the mining in China.  We are operating with the required permission of The People's Democratic Republic of China.

As far as I'm concerned, the main problem is mining centralization through pools, not where these pools are located. Still, the protocol is vastly most decentralized compared to a bank that confiscates your money, delays your transfer by a week, etc etc. Same for the token and its issuance, relative to govt issued fiat currency.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I'm a Hero member, for Heaven's sake! Show a little respect.



https://www.google.ca/search?q=hero+member&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&gfe_rd=cr&ei=t1PCVt3_JYaN8QeKjYqQCQ