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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26373082 times)
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JayJuanGee
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May 13, 2020, 04:38:04 AM
Last edit: May 13, 2020, 06:54:55 AM by JayJuanGee
Merited by Paashaas (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

Whats next...?? With in 2 year
8572 * 7x  = $60,004  
8572 * 10x= $85,720
Or Biiiiiggg rally?


Well, if you are looking at the BTC price at the time of the halvening, then the BTC price at the time of the next halvening, could be interesting... and that could reasonably end up landing somewhere in the 7x to 10x arena as you indicated, and seems really difficult to know where the BTC price might land in 4 years, and where it might land in 2 years or within the peak of the next price run (if we get one) is another question.
Yeah, Halving closed price range is landmark..
Hard to tell where it might land in next 4 years but if we look at last 2 halving closing price range, then it could give us some roadplan for speculation

2nd halving ($658)
3rd halving ($8572)

13x difference, so if we take this as a benchmark or speculate from here then it put us around $111,436 by the end of the 4th halving.

Yeah, but would 13x really be fair or representative?

the movement from the 1st to the 2nd was nearly 51x, so wouldn't it be more reasonable to project that the number is getting smaller?  That is part of the reason why I considered your 7x to 10x range to have been reasonable when looking at a 4 year trajectory.. and maybe that is even too pie in the sky, but it still could serve as a potential trajectory that would seem to be more reasonable than 13x.


Seems to me that the range in which BTC prices might peak in two years or less (perhaps 18 months) would likely have a much broader range of possibilities that are greater than 7x to 10x.

So if we remember the BTC price from the 2016 halvening (yeah its in your charts as mid $600s), then calculating from that jumping off point to the next high of about $19,666 in December 2017 (about 18 months later), we got about a 30x price increase.

Holy cow 30x.. Everyone would like to see that happening. BTW do you really think that there is big possibility of another parabolic run similar to last one in short period of time? I can live with that if there is even 1% chance.

Of course, if we put together all of the various possible outcomes and we plot them out, I think that they would come out on a bell curve, so the more extreme of the predictions would be a lot less likely to happen, but they still have some likelihood of happening.

So, yeah, if we are starting with the halvening price as our base, then 30x would be one of the possible plotting out points on the graph, and maybe it has less than a 10% chance of happening.  I do personally believe that it is greater than 1%, otherwise I would not even be talking about it with any level of seriousness.

Probably, though, even for the peak, something less than 30x would be more reasonable, just like many of us were planning 3x to 5x from the previous 2013 ATH of $1,163 in order to arrive at our most bullish scenarios of $3k to $5k for the 2017 bullrun; however, we witnessed the 2017 bullrun going 4x to 5x higher than our most bullish projections.... and sure, many of us did not consider 20k to be impossible, otherwise we would have sold all of our BTC a lot sooner, and I held on to the vast majority of mine (87%-88%, I believe).

So, surely, I believe that it is better to go a bit more conservative, even with whatever we might be considering to be a reasonable projection of another blow-off top, if it were to occur. So instead of 30x, then maybe we would choose half of that or maybe more reasonably 40% of that, which would be 12x  (30 * 40% = 12).. so that still puts us around $100k ($8,752 * 12), and maybe even we might say 3x to 5x from the previous ATH.. which puts us somewhere between $60k and $100k).

A lot of these variations on projections are far from certain, and part of the reason why we see a lot of great ideas posted in threads in regards to possible scenarios, and many of them are within ranges of reasonableness and are not really pie in the sky, either, even if they might not end up playing out as rosey as we would like.

We are in trying times, too, in terms of our macros and the ongoing compromised status our current supply chains, including future supply chains, so even projecting more conservative price targets could be in order and even reasonable.

Somewhere between a 4% to 6% per year rate might be what traditional asset assessments might be willing to project, and maybe even a lot of traditional asset analysts are nervous about whether they are going to be able to get traditional returns... so let's just go with a 5% per year projection (is that too bullish?)

2020 = $8,752
2021 = $9,189.60
2022 = $9,649.08
2023 = $10,131.53
2024 = $10,638.11

Yeah.. that 5% price appreciation per year on average does not look too great, but it still ends up in a BTC price that is greater value than today for each of the subsequent years, and personally, I believe that when we are plotting out various possibilities it is good to account for a variety of possible outcomes, even the negative possibilities... but we don't need to discuss those negative plots, here (even though they should exist in your repertoire of planning).   Wink


Let's hope that we do not get a 30x BTC price increase from this 2020 halvening in around 18 months because we would all be too stressed out by going up that greatly, correct?

$8,572 x 30 = $257,160 .  Those levels of BTC prices would be tough to deal with, right JSRAW?  

That is why you had proposed a 7x to 10x BTC price increase range in order that we will feel MOAR better, and not become tooooooo cittttteeeeee?  you are saving us from ourselves? right JSRAW?   Angry Angry

Perhaps, Some of us might get panic attack if its happens..  Grin

Don't panic-attack ur lil selfie.

Part of the reason to prepare for a variety of scenarios is to help the possibility that you are NOT going to end up panicking.

I have told my story many times, and maybe some recall that I said this before.. but let me repeat that in about mid-2015, I had gone through quite a few preparation scenarios in my head (and of course on paper, using excel spreadsheets, and I may have even posted some of my then ideas), but anyhow, my plan was to continue to skim off a certain amount of BTC profits with the rising of BTC prices, and sure when I made my initial plans, the BTC price was bouncing around $250, so the projections out to $5k seemed kind of pie in the sky, and so yeah, I was feeling pretty good through 2016 and early 2017 as the various price marks were getting surpassed, so I think that sometime in early 2017, when the BTC price had already gone to $2k-ish.  I looked at the amount of fiat that I was generating with my incremental sales, and I felt that I was generating way more fiat than necessary, so I felt that I needed to reconsider some of my BTC sales trajectory, which largely reduced the amount of BTC that I authorized myself to sell at each price point, including getting to $19,666 and still having about 88% of my BTC compared to fiat value, even though my earlier trajectories would have caused me to sell much more BTC, but I was happy with my reconsideration and my reduction of my BTC sales.  Of course, after the fact, I could criticize my approach for NOT selling enough.. but I am not going to do that because I am an adult, and I had already decided what I was going to do before it happened, and I largely followed my plan which causes me to feel good about following my plan and even understanding the risks without regretting my choices.


But i just don't want to jinx anything even in speculation Grin.

Jupiter9?  Is that you?

Don't tell me you are going to go down the superstition road, from here on?   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



Will celebrate the victory when we cross the finish line.

Is there a finish line?  Are you planning on selling all your BTC at some point?  Isn't this whole BTC matter a kind of proportion, and if BTC prices reach certain points, then we are going to choose whether or not to reallocate, and if we do choose to reallocate, then how much are we going to reallocate?  What is reasonable and prudent for our own situation?

Of course, we then have to account for factors that go beyond just the BTC price, such as our various personal circumstances, including our cashflow, other investments, views about bitcoin compared with other assets, risk tolerance, timeline, and our time, skills and abilities to manage and tweak our holdings, including whether to trade.


Till then i am keeping my head down and stacking Sats.

You can hardly go wrong with that strategy during our current times because we have NOT quite reached "face-melting" tm - (attributed to Hyperjacked) BTC price movements
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May 13, 2020, 04:44:56 AM
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.....
Haha.

What's the way to end up with a small fortune in the music business?

Start with a large fortune.
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May 13, 2020, 04:45:22 AM
Last edit: May 13, 2020, 04:57:01 AM by jbreher

If they print tether out of thin air and don't actually have the USD reserves, wouldn't that be just like printing USD out of thin air?

If tether is outed as a scam, wouldn't peopl just sell as much tether as they could for BTC? How would that make BTC dump?

"Tether is a scam so I'm going to sell Bitcoins for tether.." I don't think so..

If a scam came out wouldn't people just be dumping tether for BTC, WDing, and running away with whatever they could?

I don't see how this printing of tether is a bad thing for BTC..

They are just printing more buy orders for BTC, and if it turns out to be a scam, Wouldn't it all just get dumped for BTC?

How does a scam in tether hurt BTC? Wouldn't it just reinforce the fact that Bitcoin is scure, and other shitcoins like centralized tether are not secure or safe compared to Bitcoin?

How is it that everyone has already forgotten that Tether (OK, the company behind it) has already admitted that their claim of 100% USD backing is a lie?

eta: Reading further, I see that Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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May 13, 2020, 05:31:58 AM
Merited by Paashaas (1)

Annualised supply inflation:

USD 21.6% (M2 money, the last 365 days)
BTC 1.8%
Gold 1.6%

PS.
BTC 0.8% (in 4 years)

https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1259997397691719682?s=21
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May 13, 2020, 06:16:21 AM

~ so if I was an earthquake betting guy my money would be going there.

Said the COV19 betting guy.

Lovely mind set you have there.




Tourism will take a huge hit.

It's the 70's all over bro. Roll Eyes
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May 13, 2020, 06:20:49 AM
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May 13, 2020, 06:30:57 AM
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13x difference

Yeah, but would 13x really be fair or representative?

the movement from the 1st to the 2nd was nearly 51x, so wouldn't it be more reasonable to project that the number is getting smaller?  That is part of the reason why I considered your 7x to 10x range to have been reasonable when looking at a 4 year trajectory.. and maybe that is even too pie in the sky, but it still could serve as a potential trajectory that would seem to be more reasonable than 13x.

Agreed, not fair if we look at complete cycle. let's say i am being stupidly optimistic in my speculation by looking at last 2 halving only and you are playing your party pooper role.  Tongue

Quote
and maybe it has less than a 10% chance of happening.  I do personally believe that it is greater than 1%, otherwise I would not even be talking about it with any level of seriousness.
I can make my peace with that.

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Don't panic attack ur lil selfie.

Part of the reason to prepare for a variety of scenarios is to help the possibility that you are going to end up panicking.

I have told my story many times

Will try not to and i suggest you the same because you never know.  Wink

I read fair amount of your stories, not all.

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Jupiter9?  Is that you?

Don't tell me you are going to go down the superstition road, from here on?   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Like i always say, can neither confirm nor deny..

But No sir Grin Grin

Will celebrate the victory when we cross the finish line.

Is there a finish line?  Are you planning on selling all your BTC at some point? 
The way i see it every target has its finish line. but its not a End per se... my initial goal is to sell some % at $50-80k range. But If we touch 1 million per coin soon, then yeah i will.

Till then i am keeping my head down and stacking Sats.

You can hardly go wrong with that strategy during our current times because we have NOT quite reached "face-melting" tm - (attributed to Hyperjacked) BTC price movements
Yeah, repeating this simple mantra for quite some time now. but i might need some planning once we cross $15k-20k mark because my bigger share of salary comes in BTC so obviously i can't afford volatility at that stage.
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May 13, 2020, 06:40:31 AM
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Us boomers got to stick together.

I never liked the term "boomer" as if everyone born between 1945 and 1963 was a member of the same cohort just because they were all products of the postwar economic boom. Yeah, our parents may have all decided to have a zillion kids at the same time (after the Great Depression and WW2 could you blame them?) but really it was 2 distinct groups:
_____

I was a member of the first group, those born in the 1940s and very early 1950s. When I was a kid we still had horse-drawn daily delivery wagons in the city, bringing us our milk, bread, ice, and coal. More people still had iceboxes than refrigerators and more people shoveled coal into their furnaces than had thermostatically-controlled gas or oil. A wringer washing machine was a modern labor-saving device. Many people still used washboards. Public transit was mostly streetcars.

We had no running hot water. On bath night my father would light a gas water heater to warm our bathwater. When my mother did dishes or laundry, she heated water in a big kettle on the kitchen stove. She dissolved ends of bar soap in the dish pan with a metal cage thingy with a handle because they didn't sell liquid dish soap yet.

After dinner, we'd sit around the floor-model vacuum tube radio (no permanent-magnet speakers: a speaker had a voice coil and a field coil) and listen to radio shows like Amos and Andy or The Lone Ranger. Phonograph records were 78 RPM and made of shellac. Most people who had record players had wind-up acoustic phonographs. My father was a classical music collector so he had a electric turntable with a piezoelectric cartridge that you mounted metal needles into with a thumbscrew. It connected to the radio. When the first TV arrived on our block it was quite the novelty. All the neighbors came around to look at the tiny round screen reflected in a mirror because the CRT was mounted vertically. Music was still mostly crooners and big bands.

We bought our meat at a butcher shop, our produce from a greengrocer, and what baked goods that weren't homemade came from a bakery. Cheese was cut and weighed by the piece, also by the butcher.
_____

By the mid-1950s everything seemed to change. Everybody had a fridge, hot water, an automatic washing machine (and dryer) and a thermostat. All the horses and many of the streetcars were replaced by internal combustion engines. Supermarkets replaced specialized food shops. Foods were pre-wrapped and packaged.

Television ruled. Radios were relegated to music and to a small degree, talk. TV commercials effected how people shopped, ate, clothed themselves and went about their daily lives. The propaganda was relentless. McCarthyism gave us a new enemy to hate and fear. It wasn't the Gerrys and Japs anymore. It was the Commies.

As the decade went on, transistors started replacing vacuum tubes and vinyl replaced shellac. Rock&roll replaced swing and new attitudes arose. It was OK to have fun and be sexy again, just like during the roaring '20s before the Depression and the war made everybody miserable and security-conscious.

Anyone who wanted a job could get one and everyone seemed to have lots of money. A guy with an average job could afford to own a home, a cottage, a stay-at-home wife, 3 or 4 kids, a new car every 3 years, and still be able to save enough to send his kids to college.

The "boomers" born in these times were a completely different cohort from the "boomers" of the 1940s.
_____

Modern generational divisions are usually based on technological or social differences. GenXers are those who came after the cultural upheaval of the early 1960s with the Kennedy assassination and the emergence of the counterculture. The Millennials are defined by growing up with the internet. GenZ by life-long internet access and post 9/11 oppression. Gen Alpha by social media.

The early and late Boomers, however, get lumped together despite major societal and technological changes in the 1950s simply because of their numbers, which has more to do with their parents than them.
What all the generations of boomers have in common, however many classifications you wish to make, is that you voted in the welfare state. It was already in place by the time I was born and it has just kept growing. I did not get a say in the state taking 80-90% of my income.

You sent women out to work, which reduced the value of labor and now two people were required to work to earn the income of one. Kids got less time with their parents which we now know damages them psychologically. This bred weakness in the following generations, and this is why states are now forcing people to stay indoors, confined as if prisoners in their own country, and why people tolerate it.

This and more is why nobody likes or respects boomers. This is why the ok boomer meme even exists.

To be fair, I blame your failures and flaws on the generation that came before you, on your parents. My dad is a boomer and I knew my grandpa. He did not teach my father about war, about the fact that peace is a temporary thing. He never talked about it. He should have, that entire generation should have. But your decisions are still yours. Kids get to say they didn't know. Adults only get to say that they chose to be ignorant of how the world works.
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May 13, 2020, 06:52:59 AM

I think a hurricane would be a big hit to the cruise industry. During this downtime a lot of them are docked in the Bahamas and Cayman. Many are sitting in one place in the open sea.

With a hurricane they will need a crew to move the ship. They will need to spend money on staying out of the hurricane's path while they have no money coming in.

The cruise industry is toast. They are doing all they can to keep afloat (pun intended). Letting people purchase cruises 3 years ahead of time, allowing people to cancel within 48 hours of their trip to reschedule (cheap cabins about to open up if you can do a last minute cruise).

Then there's the air industry. They're talking about taking out middle seats so they can put spacers in, cutting back flights to 20%...prices are going to skyrocket.

Tourism will take a huge hit.
If it means I don't have to sit squished between two other people for hours and sometimes a full day then I don't mind paying double for plane tickets. Luxury has always had a pricetag.
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May 13, 2020, 06:55:21 AM

I did not get a say in the state taking 80-90% of my income.
You go girl....
I even encourage you to sue your parents as you didn't get to say anything if you wanted to born or not at the first place...  Tongue
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May 13, 2020, 07:00:53 AM

I did not get a say in the state taking 80-90% of my income.
You go girl....
I even encourage you to sue your parents as you didn't get to say anything if you wanted to born or not at the first place...  Tongue

Nah,

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May 13, 2020, 07:02:21 AM

I did not get a say in the state taking 80-90% of my income.
You go girl....
I even encourage you to sue your parents as you didn't get to say anything if you wanted to born or not at the first place...  Tongue
My folks have done what they can. There are simply things that people don't know, and some things that individuals are not able to understand based on their personal psychology. But they have done enough. Besides if I objected to my existence there are ways out of that.
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May 13, 2020, 07:23:16 AM

Don't panic attack ur lil selfie.

Part of the reason to prepare for a variety of scenarios is to help the possibility that you are [NOT] (added in bolded part) going to end up panicking.

Will try not to and i suggest you the same because you never know.  Wink

My planned method in my preparations for a possible BTC exponential growth period are a little bit different this time (if it happens) than they were last time, but I do believe that I have some advantages over you, JSRAW, is because I have gone through a full cycle, and I believe that I have another advantage over you in terms of starting out with a greater investment amount... but sure, I am not trying to assert that I am better than you or trying to compete, because if someone becomes rich, then they would probably prefer to be younger than about to die.. so you probably have a decent amount of advantages over me in terms of age, and you also have certain amount of advantages over me in having investment opportunities that I believe that I did not have before bitcoin... I mean there are some seeming great investment opportunity advantages in bitcoin, at least from my thinking... but still it takes discipline to figure out a personally tailored path in regards to any investment whether bitcoin or other investment options.

In terms of planning, I am not suggesting that you do something that I am not planning to do myself, but I am also NOT asserting that I am NOT going to fail.. I am planning in order that I can hopefully lessen the odds that I will fail.. You know the expression... "failing to plan is planning to fail," and I am trying to make some personal progress, while trying to NOT acknowledge and accept that we all have various weaknesses, including yours truly.


Till then i am keeping my head down and stacking Sats.

You can hardly go wrong with that strategy during our current times because we have NOT quite reached "face-melting" tm - (attributed to Hyperjacked) BTC price movements
Yeah, repeating this simple mantra for quite some time now. but i might need some planning once we cross $15k-20k mark because my bigger share of salary comes in BTC so obviously i can't afford volatility at that stage.

The variables likely ONLY change a bit when you earn money in BTC rather than earning in fiat.  Expenses and preparations still need to account for the likelihood that your expenses are likely being calculated in terms of fiat, and probably, I will venture to guess, the amount that you are paid in BTC is likely calculated in terms of its fiat value (you can correct me if I am wrong with my guess).

Frequently, someone who is paid in BTC is going to be selling on a regular basis and sometimes even forced to sell at times that s/he does not want to, and probably there are some ways to attempt to give yourself enough of a cushion in order to cause yourself more latitude in the when to sell matter than what you would have if you did not plan sufficiently, which is largely a matter of attempting to project out your cashflow needs far enough into the future and attempting to account for possible emergencies and things like that, too.
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May 13, 2020, 07:57:22 AM

We know mr. Musk, we know..

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1260473394790838274
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May 13, 2020, 08:19:39 AM

I wonder how the WO looks like in 2021 - 2024 range. Smiley

I guess we'll have to move to Instagram to share our lambos/hot models/villas/100k party pics...  Grin
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May 13, 2020, 08:21:20 AM

If they print tether out of thin air and don't actually have the USD reserves, wouldn't that be just like printing USD out of thin air?

If tether is outed as a scam, wouldn't peopl just sell as much tether as they could for BTC? How would that make BTC dump?

"Tether is a scam so I'm going to sell Bitcoins for tether.." I don't think so..

If a scam came out wouldn't people just be dumping tether for BTC, WDing, and running away with whatever they could?

I don't see how this printing of tether is a bad thing for BTC..

They are just printing more buy orders for BTC, and if it turns out to be a scam, Wouldn't it all just get dumped for BTC?

How does a scam in tether hurt BTC? Wouldn't it just reinforce the fact that Bitcoin is scure, and other shitcoins like centralized tether are not secure or safe compared to Bitcoin?

How is it that everyone has already forgotten that Tether (OK, the company behind it) has already admitted that their claim of 100% USD backing is a lie?

eta: Reading further, I see that Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Nobody gives a damn about tether...  Cool
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May 13, 2020, 08:30:30 AM

Very interesting tweet from @loop based on @coinmetrics

Quote

The amount of BTC held by BitMEX and Bitfinex has reached new lows following the March 12th crash. Bitfinex now holds 93.8K BTC, down from 193.9k on March 13th. BitMEX’s BTC supply is now down to 216.0K BTC, down from a peak of 315.7K on March 13th. H/T @coinmetrics




https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1260189246511513601?s=21

The mid March market crash scared the traders, not the holders. He who wanted to gamble their funds, kept them on hot wallet on the exchanges (those are the traders). They lost their funds towards the holders. The holders, being savvy and knowing that “not your keys, not your bitcoin”, withdrew their funds from the exchanges.


How do you extrapolate all of that from that graph? some go up some go down average seems about straight. Maybe they moved exchanges, maybe an exchange decided to run down its money. Seems like complex equivalence to blame some saying, or sudden change in trader mentality.
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May 13, 2020, 08:39:11 AM

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May 13, 2020, 08:44:10 AM

Tether is the weakest link and a prime target, so it's not a matter of if Tether will go down but a matter of when...

Let me, for a second, go along with your presumption that bitcoin is vulnerable to losing value because tether is propping up its price too much by causing more liquidity than what would otherwise be present.
 That is a pretty BIG presumption.. but let's just accept such presumption as a given.

Then...

What if Tether goes down in 50 years?  Why the fuck should we care?

Let's make it a shorter period of time.  What if it goes down in 10 years?  That is still pretty far into the future too.

No, no, no... you are presuming Tethers impeding death... because regulators have been going after it for years and years... therefore, it must be impending to die sooner than 50 years, right?

It could go any minute, right?

That's what she said.

Tether goes down? surely people will be scrambling to get out of it? where could they move to?

Can you tether to usd ? I thought that was the point, the places didn't have USD?
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May 13, 2020, 08:58:50 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), jojo69 (1)



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