Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Lucius]

Are these articles coming off as desperate or what?

I've already commented on that here, and I think we can explain statements like this by something we can call the "Lee effect". It seems that little Michael Lee who worked on this discovery, may be a relative of the famous Tom Lee (Fundstrat).

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[LFC_Bitcoin]

BTC reserves held on exchanges continue to decrease. For the last 2 days over 80K BTC were withdrawn from all exchanges. This sideways lingering continued long enough. We are getting to the point where the upward explosion will be unstoppable. The rocket is fueled and ready to launch, overcoming the gravity of the miniscule daily profit seekers. Traders, think twice before hitting the sell button with a 0.9% profit!

We can’t save them all brother, LET THEM BURNNNNNN!

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Sideways 'r' us... currently $9295USD/$12650CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

At least it didn't drop down after the halving like some predicted. This could be a long summer though.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I was very surprises how high interest bank still take fro lending out money while they get money for no interest them self. I guess in the future bank loans to actual people will have to get to zero

Why does this surprise you? This is how banks make their money. The only way consumer rates could ever get to zero would be for central bank rates to go so far negative that competition between banks forced them, and in that case inflation would collapse the system.

Banks aren't the only ones. All usury-based businesses work on the same principles.  

The first thing they taught us at the insurance company where I had the second of the 3 jobs of my youthful employment folly, was that they didn't make money from paying out less in claims than they collected in premiums. They actually paid out slightly more than they took in. It was all about using the policy holders' money.

Likewise, how do you think Robinhood can offer no-fee trading? It's all about usury.

When you buy a home on a mortgage, you aren't buying a home for yourself. You're using your down payment to buy a home for the bank and then renting it from them. I suppose negative interest rates for the banks are just another form of subsidized housing. Eventually it falls on the taxpayer.

[Hueristic]

Many of the super-rich personalities of the world are workaholics, because it's their work that keeps them alive.

When the stress of needing to receive pay in order to survive is removed you can work for your own dreams and not someone elses.

This is the freedom we all deserve.

[Hueristic]

Can't read the article but banks might have no choice than buying negative yelding bonds to follow rules on holdings. Basically to lend money to "risky" companies and people, they have to hold some "non risky" debt.

Funny that the ECB doesn't offer the same deal to actual people.

Yes. My niece took a loan to buy an apartment about a year ago. I was very surprises how high interest bank still take fro lending out money while they get money for no interest them self. I guess in the future bank loans to actual people will have to get to zero

I called my bank for a quick personal 10k loan (I haven't taken a loan since the mid 80's) and they wanted 18%, I was shocked and laughed in the guys face.

Yes, I'd rather take a loan than sell anything right now.

[sirazimuth]

Haven't taken out a personal loan in years so I guess I'm outta that loop, but 18% ?? Holy shit... that is shocking.

I used to take out  cash advance loan offers from my Visa Card.  (issuer is not a major bank, some joint out in Nebraska)
I musta been a good customer as the rate was  4% and no fee.
Now that my balance has been zero for so long they lowered my credit limit...lol.
(any balance now gets paid off every month of course)

[Hueristic]

Haven't taken out a personal loan in years so I guess I'm outta that loop, but 18% ?? Holy shit... that is shocking.

I used to take out  cash advance loan offers from my Visa Card.  (issuer is not a major bank, some joint out in Nebraska)
I musta been a good customer as the rate was  4% and no fee.
Now that my balance has been zero for so long they lowered my credit limit...lol.
(any balance now gets paid off every month of course)

I used to have a revolving loan on my personal checking that was something like 20% but if I paid it within a month it was free. when I changed banks (credit union got bought out and they started adding bullshit fees) I got what I thought was the same thing but apparently they have changed the line of credit to a fee based structure but otherwise I'm pretty happy with my bank now as I pay no fees no matter what the balance and I get all ATM fees refunded.

Funny thing is that 18% was if you have top credit score, I didn't even get to the point to have him check mine to see what my rate would be. I think it gets worse if you don't use it but I haven't bothered checking in a few decades so I have no clue what the latest scam they are running is structured as.


Credit score is a scam

https://medium.com/swlh/the-greatest-capitalist-scam-of-the-century-why-credit-scores-are-screwing-us-all-over-7f6b607e745d

[Torque]

NY FED classified Bitcoin as fiat money..lol.


https://decrypt.co/32940/new-york-fed-bitcoin-fiat-money

Bitcoin Is Not a New Type of Money.

Complete bullshit. If they classified it as fiat money, then the IRS wouldn't need to tax it.

[ssmc2]

NY FED classified Bitcoin as fiat money..lol.


https://decrypt.co/32940/new-york-fed-bitcoin-fiat-money

Bitcoin Is Not a New Type of Money.

Complete bullshit. If they classified it as fiat money, then the IRS wouldn't need to tax it.

Someone please inform the IRS

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Good afternoon WO!
Observing @ $9,246
Two weeks break was worth it. Now back to home.

How are we all? Nothing changed for Bitcoin as I see.

I need a summary @JSRAW 🤪

[Hueristic]

Complete bullshit. If they classified it as fiat money, then the IRS wouldn't need to tax it.

Someone please inform the IRS

https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/06/bitcoin-is-not-a-new-type-of-money.html

Disclaimer
The views expressed in this post are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the position of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York or the Federal Reserve System. Any errors or omissions are the responsibility of the author.

[Torque]

Calling yourself a wage slave for too long means you really need to change something in your life. Not all people can achieve getting enjoyment from work. Some are incapable, others lazy, others just unlucky, although I don't really believe luck can fully define someone. One can make his/her own luck in life, or he/she falls into the "incapable" category. But at least you've got to try. If you fail, try again, and if you fail again, maybe you're not able to do it, or you need to re-evaluate your goals, and Bitcoin can help in such cases, but not everyone is in this situation. Not everyone is a wage slave.

True. But the actual work of one's career can also change drastically over time, to become much less meaningful.

For example, when I first got into IT programming in the mid 90's, the work was actually very meaningful and fun. We were building business software applications from complete scratch, and there was a sense of passion, creativity and analysis in what I was doing day to day. Programmers could use their brains to bang out code to build custom use cases and custom UIs, were respected and revered, and got paid accordingly for their creative analysis and technical knowledge.

By the time I got out of that career in the 2010's, IT programmers were reduced to simply integrating off-the-shelf, expensive closed-source software into existing business environments. They essentially became glorified software "babysitters", having to spend their days trying to integrate and debug software that was poorly-written by someone else, often with poor performance, poor configuration, archaic APIs, missing or incomplete documentation, lack of expertise, etc. And these software integrations were often initiated under ridiculous time schedules and low/inadequate budgets, with use-case and performance expectations that could not be met in the time allotted. Or ever. It became soul-crushing work, and I started having bouts of anxiety and depression that I never had in the beginning of my IT career.

What the IT career became in the end, was not something I had signed up for in the beginning. So I got out.

[sirazimuth]

https://medium.com/swlh/the-greatest-capitalist-scam-of-the-century-why-credit-scores-are-screwing-us-all-over-7f6b607e745d

The sad fact is that two-thirds of Americans can’t pass a basic financial literacy test, and it’s not getting better at a rapid pace, either.

That's the gist of it.
I learned many years ago after going bankrupt (entirely my fault, young and stupid) you have to play the credit game
correctly and follow the mostly unwritten rules he spells out.
I did that and over the years since my bankruptcy my credit score is virtually perfect now... 830 or something. I don't really care tbh.
I only know that, not because I check it (I don't, that's bad for credit score) but when re-upping my last car lease,
the salesperson mentioned he never sees folks come in with perfect credit scores.

[xhomerx10]

a $92K annual drawdown on $2.3M. Not shabby, but neither is it anywhere near what I was making when I was a wage slave. And I ain't typical retirement age yet, so allowances need be made to extend the principal that many more years.

[...]

I recall that you (picnic bear) and I had already had a variation of this conversation regarding having some enjoyment in work, and surely there is going to be individual variation in that regard, and even rewards from work that are not necessarily feeling like they are slave labor. Accordingly, there are reasons why some multi-millionaires and even billionaires will continue to involve themselves in money making endeavors, even though they really do not need to be occupying their time with such business arrangements and some of the work that might come out of juggling various kinds of business relationships, so in that regard, having fuck you status can be played at higher levels, too in which wealthy persons who chooses projects based on personal enjoyment, status, purpose and sometimes will be in a position to can business relations or others to go fly a kite if they do not want to play ball with the wealthy person... of course, assuming that no contractual obligation(s) had been created... and sometimes being the one with more money can sometimes allow for the breaking of contracts without really suffering meaningful negative financial consequences, too.  

[...]

Spot on!

Steve Jobs once said: "For the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: 'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' And whenever the answer has been 'No' for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something."

Calling yourself a wage slave for too long means you really need to change something in your life. Not all people can achieve getting enjoyment from work. Some are incapable, others lazy, others just unlucky, although I don't really believe luck can fully define someone. One can make his/her own luck in life, or he/she falls into the "incapable" category. But at least you've got to try. If you fail, try again, and if you fail again, maybe you're not able to do it, or you need to re-evaluate your goals, and Bitcoin can help in such cases, but not everyone is in this situation. Not everyone is a wage slave.

Reaching "fuck you" richness status should not necessarily mean quitting work, or stopping doing what you're doing. It could mean that you are now able to do more things that were out of your reach before, feeling more secure about your financial situation, enjoying your hobbies and leisure time to the maximum, but continue working on the field you enjoy, and even be much more productive and much more involved now, keeping your brain active and your intellectual abilities in top shape. Many of the super-rich personalities of the world are workaholics, because it's their work that keeps them alive.

 I wonder... or is it perhaps because they said "No" to the mirror too many days in a row and failed to do something about it?  I'm pretty certain that the world didn't need a twat scented candle.
Also, I wonder if old Steve had asked himself, 'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' before walking to the mirror if he could have achieved so much more with all that extra time?

 edit: added a link in case the world really does need that twat scented candle.

[sirazimuth]

....
...  I'm pretty certain that the world didn't need a twat scented candle.

 edit: added a link in case the world really does need that twat scented candle.

"geranium, citrusy bergamot, and cedar absolutes juxtaposed with Damask rose and ambrette seed"

jeezus christ! wtf is that crazy gooper lady shoving up her stinky pink anyway?

[Ibian]

Used to be you knew the people in your bank and they knew you. No need for arcane scoring systems.

[Ibian]

Calling yourself a wage slave for too long means you really need to change something in your life. Not all people can achieve getting enjoyment from work. Some are incapable, others lazy, others just unlucky, although I don't really believe luck can fully define someone. One can make his/her own luck in life, or he/she falls into the "incapable" category. But at least you've got to try. If you fail, try again, and if you fail again, maybe you're not able to do it, or you need to re-evaluate your goals, and Bitcoin can help in such cases, but not everyone is in this situation. Not everyone is a wage slave.

True. But the actual work of one's career can also change drastically over time, to become much less meaningful.

For example, when I first got into IT programming in the mid 90's, the work was actually very meaningful and fun. We were building business software applications from complete scratch, and there was a sense of passion, creativity and analysis in what I was doing day to day. Programmers could use their brains to bang out code to build custom use cases and custom UIs, were respected and revered, and got paid accordingly for their creative analysis and technical knowledge.

By the time I got out of that career in the 2010's, IT programmers were reduced to simply integrating off-the-shelf, expensive closed-source software into existing business environments. They essentially became glorified software "babysitters", having to spend their days trying to integrate and debug software that was poorly-written by someone else, often with poor performance, poor configuration, archaic APIs, missing or incomplete documentation, lack of expertise, etc. And these software integrations were often initiated under ridiculous time schedules and low/inadequate budgets, with use-case and performance expectations that could not be met in the time allotted. Or ever. It became soul-crushing work, and I started having bouts of anxiety and depression that I never had in the beginning of my IT career.

What the IT career became in the end, was not something had I signed up for in the beginning. So I got out.

This is why I never got into the field. It was obvious what it had become and what kind of people I would have to be dealing with. Even had a teacher say that people like me were born 20 years too late.

[btcbeliever]

Can't read the article but banks might have no choice than buying negative yelding bonds to follow rules on holdings. Basically to lend money to "risky" companies and people, they have to hold some "non risky" debt.

Funny that the ECB doesn't offer the same deal to actual people.

Yes. My niece took a loan to buy an apartment about a year ago. I was very surprises how high interest bank still take fro lending out money while they get money for no interest them self. I guess in the future bank loans to actual people will have to get to zero

I called my bank for a quick personal 10k loan (I haven't taken a loan since the mid 80's) and they wanted 18%, I was shocked and laughed in the guys face.

Yes, I'd rather take a loan than sell anything right now.

You can use your BTC stash as collateral for a 5% interest rate personal loan - borrow $10,000 with $40,000 of BTC
Celsius.network

I've earned interest with them for a year now, a good business.

[Biodom]

Good discussion...
When you feel burned out, it most definitely means that something has to change.
I am only 9 years into my second career cycle. So far so good, but who knows how long that feeling would last.
Having bitcoin as a 'hobby' certainly helped as it makes things interesting, especially when I had to learn a thing or two about it.

One point regarding drawn-downs: I cannot imagine myself stopping accumulation and starting a strict draw-down. I think this would make me feeling empty and/or exposed.
Spending from IRA just does not feel right and I am not even talking about selling btc for spending. It would be difficult to overcome the hodling philosophy.

@jbreher and @JJG were [having a] discussion spending $92K from a $2.3mil account as an exercise, 4% yearly and all...
That's all peachy, unless either $ value significantly declines or, alternatively, market would not appreciate for, say, 20-30 years.
Then, all money is gone in 25 years, someone is a 90 year old man (if you start at 65) in relative poverty (if social programs collapse or become highly insufficient).
I tend to believe that 4% is hogwash and recent events show that we don't know what to expect down the pike.
It is probably wise to have some residence paid out by 65; at least take this part of the equation out.

Regarding yearly withdraws: 3% sounds much more realistic, at least I use this number for calculations.

You can use your BTC stash as collateral for a 5% interest rate personal loan - borrow $10,000 with $40,000 of BTC
Celsius.network

I've earned interest with them for a year now, a good business.

Interestingly, blockchain.com (the one that used to be blockchain.info) says that it would pay YOU 4.5% on btc in their custody account.
Not sure whether it is in btc or in fiat. Seems to be a better deal, not sure what conditions are, though.

[Hueristic]

Calling yourself a wage slave for too long means you really need to change something in your life. Not all people can achieve getting enjoyment from work. Some are incapable, others lazy, others just unlucky, although I don't really believe luck can fully define someone. One can make his/her own luck in life, or he/she falls into the "incapable" category. But at least you've got to try. If you fail, try again, and if you fail again, maybe you're not able to do it, or you need to re-evaluate your goals, and Bitcoin can help in such cases, but not everyone is in this situation. Not everyone is a wage slave.

True. But the actual work of one's career can also change drastically over time, to become much less meaningful.

For example, when I first got into IT programming in the mid 90's, the work was actually very meaningful and fun. We were building business software applications from complete scratch, and there was a sense of passion, creativity and analysis in what I was doing day to day. Programmers could use their brains to bang out code to build custom use cases and custom UIs, were respected and revered, and got paid accordingly for their creative analysis and technical knowledge.

By the time I got out of that career in the 2010's, IT programmers were reduced to simply integrating off-the-shelf, expensive closed-source software into existing business environments. They essentially became glorified software "babysitters", having to spend their days trying to integrate and debug software that was poorly-written by someone else, often with poor performance, poor configuration, archaic APIs, missing or incomplete documentation, lack of expertise, etc. And these software integrations were often initiated under ridiculous time schedules and low/inadequate budgets, with use-case and performance expectations that could not be met in the time allotted. Or ever. It became soul-crushing work, and I started having bouts of anxiety and depression that I never had in the beginning of my IT career.

What the IT career became in the end, was not something had I signed up for in the beginning. So I got out.

Its an entire generation of script kiddies that are called programmers. Pretty disgusting actually. I have a nephew who does "penetration testing" and thought writing a batch file was machine coding. He was telling me how the guy who is his direct supervisor codes in machine language which I of course laughed at him and he got all indignant and it turns out the guy writes batch files. Lol

How sad.

I would have even given him a pass if it was assembler.