Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[aminorex]

We don't want bitcoin to represent any underlaying value. Bitcoin is pure money.

That's certainly the theory, but practice shows it's viewed as a store of value with a price set in terms of its power to purchase other currency.

I manage to disagree with both views.  Pure money can be valued in a fundamental sense, in terms of goods and services.  These need not be measured by units of exchange.  They can be measured, for example, as a proportion of the total transacted goods and services.  If a given currency is used as the unit of measurement, that does not imply that the unit of measurement is more fundamental or true than any other unit which was not chosen.  It is merely a choice of units, like the choice of ergs vs. joules, meters vs. yards, moles vs. molecules, electron volts vs. attograms.   A quantity of currency may not be used as a store of value, but it can still be measured as such, and usefully, in the context of a functioning economy:  PQ=MV.  It can never be repeated often enough.

[EuroTrash]

I see that the asks on Stamp towards 700 keep on increasing... Order book turning bearish?
Does not mean we are going down with certainty... These are the last wave of sellers who have lived through the crash and have held until now. Last heads have to roll down the landslide in chunks before a tide made of many little buys erodes those walls away and redesigns the coastal landscape.

[ScrapOfCat]

[thefunkybits]

Probability of break out in the next 4 hours: 55.6%

What's with everyone calling for a breakout right now? We just met the 3 month downtrend a couple days ago, and it takes a couple weeks to break out of a 3 month downtrend. It would make no sense on the chart if it just went up right now without any consolidation.

lol historically speaking betting against Adam = $$$. But I agree, the technicals need to be realigned and there needs to be a massive injection of cash to keep these levels up at the present time. Im going to call a bottom of $575 on Stamp before going back up

[Hen0xyd]

Interesting huh?

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin

Yeah, it is. It's fun to see the charts for bitcoin searches and news are really close to the price chart !

[keewee]

Now everything is so boring... What is the biggest bid wall in terms of USD you ever spotted on an exchange? I think there was a 1.2 million wall once on Mt.Gox, but i'm not entirely sure.

This one?

https://i.imgur.com/NVVjOLY.png

This must be the biggest wall, not the one i spotted though.

hell of a wall kid

July ~800k:
https://i.imgur.com/eTOk6e2.png
Apr ~1m:
https://i.imgur.com/D1FXE0B.jpg


That wall taught me a hard lesson about panic selling.

That's 2 more incredible walls. Always causes a stir in the forums when they appear   It'll be quite some time before that first $1.7M wall is beaten though, unless the value of BTC goes up to a lot, then we might see a few more like them

[lumierre]

Price action incoming 1 to 48 hrs from now.

[kkaspar]

Thankfully I had not yet gotten around to ignoring kkaspar yet, so I saw this.  Of course I have to ignore him now that he caught my attention, since he is a troll who adds nothing of value, regardless of viewpoint.  Having seen the accusation of mendacity, I reply.

including billions of dollars of investment going into its infrastructure and its wider and wider network of acceptance and use.

Billions of dollars? Really? That's hype on a whole new level.

Really.  I can enumerate a billion in ventures without trying hard.  It's only a thousand millions, and a 5-10 million startup is begun practically every week.  Then there are miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net.  BTC turns over 6 times annually.  For each dollar of recurring cash flow multiple dollars of investment are rationally expected.

yeah try again. LIAR

-> http://www.coindesk.com/following-money-trends-bitcoin-venture-capital-investment/

On the Bitcoin side, the $97.5m in venture capital that has been publicly reported underestimates the total, which would include unreported venture investment, by tens of millions of dollars. (...) Finally, it has been estimated that upwards of $200m has been invested in bitcoin mining hardware and infrastructure to date, a figure which exceeds even a less conservative estimate of the total venture capital invested in bitcoin to date.

we're far from a billion 

I am a liar, but you don't qualify to call me one, hd.  In a more romantic world (not necessarily a better one) we would be drawing pistols at dawn.  I know I am a liar, because I have to wage war against myself every day, to stay on a path of truth.  I admit to indulging all too much rhetoric, by purely rationalistic standards (but definitely not by romantic ones).  More struggle remains, I guess.  But that rhetoric is not intended to deceive, and if I am in factual error I am eager to correct it, if only to steel my rhetoric against facile attacks by nattering nabobs of negativity.

I played loosely with words, and you called me out on it.  For that I commend you, in that it was an excellent call, accurately identifying your perceived opponent's weakness, and maximizing it to your perceived advantage.   I say perceived because I believe that, in fact, your own interests would be better served by seeking win-win collaboration and value-enhancing synergies than by exercising your oppositional personality disorder.

It would not, in fact, be "easy" for me to enumerate a billion in ventures full stop.  I would have to include "miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net".   Correction made.

One small aspect of the brilliance of bitcoin in its conception and execution is that it aggregates to its own agenda the resources previously dedicated to the fiat economy.  While resources freshly allocated to bitcoin may be less than 2 billions (but certainly more than 1 billion, and hence deserving of the term "billions", rather than "millions", which would be mendaciously misleading) the resources now commanded by bitcoin, subservient and leveraged to its design goals, are on the order of tens of billions in USDnow terms.  If bitcoin achieves its maximum conceivable penetrative success, without the expense of more than X USD of fresh purposefully dedicated infrastructure, it will have done so my commandeering trillions is pre-existing infrastructure, and re-purposing it.

By the way, hd, your attack, while well placed, lacked force.  You quoted (to your credit) parts of the source which supported my position, and the conclusions of the quote were weak refutation, if they even qualified as refutation.  The source enumerates 300 millions and explicitly states that this underestimates the total.  Moreover the source does not include resources which I explicitly mentioned (without estimating).  If the source were to underestimate by a factor of 3, it would not be incorrect as a result, thus both the source and my statement can be simultaneously true.  Thus the source is no refutation at all.  (That you choose obsessive oppositionalism over a synergetic approach, which would seek to extract what valid truth can be found instead of finding fault where perfection is lacking - everywhere, in fact -  is probably not doing you good service.)

I should not have said "easily"  but I persist that I can enumerate in excess of a billion, without excessive stretching.  This would involved many disputable numbers and perhaps even disputable resources.  They would still be enumerated, and their total would still be serving the interests of bitcoin's design, some in a dedicated manner, some in a multipurpose manner, the latter mostly inherited from pre-existing infrastructure, but fractionally co-opted by bitcoin.  It would also include ventures not considered in the total reported by your source.

(If both law and principle prevent me from defending myself with lead or steel, I can at least man up enough to use the tongue granted me, in the most temperate but penetrating manner which I can promptly muster.)

You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.

[tintincancan]

After months of lurking, I finally registered just for the privilege of ignoring kkaspar and aminorex 

While I'm here... keep up the good work folks!  This thread is the internet's most cutting edge source of bitcoin news, interesting bitcoin debate, bitcoin misinformation, FUD, dubious predictions, painfully geeky injokes, primary material for psychology studies into mob mentality and sleep deprivation... etc..

I love it!   

[raid_n]

You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.

This could be said of you as well.

Whats up with intelligent people arguing desperately against bitcoin in a bitcoin forum like Jorge Trollfi and you, kkaspar?
Is there a point in shouting bitcoin will fail to a group that mostly believe in bitcoin? What if you actually turn out to be right?
You gain absolutely nothing from this. And don't come with the "I'm only here to help" argument. Thats utter bullshit

[magicmexican]

I miss the good ol days of "will 1000$ hold?"

[koryu]

china is starting a rally, get ready for the choo choo

[FierceRadish]

You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.

This could be said of you as well.

Whats up with intelligent people arguing desperately against bitcoin in a bitcoin forum like Jorge Trollfi and you, kkaspar?
Is there a point in shouting bitcoin will fail to a group that mostly believe in bitcoin? What if you actually turn out to be right?
You gain absolutely nothing from this. And don't come with the "I'm only here to help" argument. Thats utter bullshit

Yeah, I hate to put people who clearly have a brain on ignore, but kkaspar has become so bloody tiresome. At least Jorges is a touch lighthearted. Kkasper is a ghost at the feast.

[dreamspark]

Walls building up on either side of the current price, which way do we think this is going??

[hdbuck]

Thankfully I had not yet gotten around to ignoring kkaspar yet, so I saw this.  Of course I have to ignore him now that he caught my attention, since he is a troll who adds nothing of value, regardless of viewpoint. Having seen the accusation of mendacity, I reply.

including billions of dollars of investment going into its infrastructure and its wider and wider network of acceptance and use.

Billions of dollars? Really? That's hype on a whole new level.

Really.  I can enumerate a billion in ventures without trying hard.  It's only a thousand millions, and a 5-10 million startup is begun practically every week.  Then there are miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net.  BTC turns over 6 times annually.  For each dollar of recurring cash flow multiple dollars of investment are rationally expected.

yeah try again. LIAR

-> http://www.coindesk.com/following-money-trends-bitcoin-venture-capital-investment/

On the Bitcoin side, the $97.5m in venture capital that has been publicly reported underestimates the total, which would include unreported venture investment, by tens of millions of dollars. (...) Finally, it has been estimated that upwards of $200m has been invested in bitcoin mining hardware and infrastructure to date, a figure which exceeds even a less conservative estimate of the total venture capital invested in bitcoin to date.

we're far from a billion  

I am a liar, but you don't qualify to call me one, hd.  In a more romantic world (not necessarily a better one) we would be drawing pistols at dawn.  I know I am a liar, because I have to wage war against myself every day, to stay on a path of truth.  I admit to indulging all too much rhetoric, by purely rationalistic standards (but definitely not by romantic ones).  More struggle remains, I guess.  But that rhetoric is not intended to deceive, and if I am in factual error I am eager to correct it, if only to steel my rhetoric against facile attacks by nattering nabobs of negativity.

I played loosely with words, and you called me out on it.  For that I commend you, in that it was an excellent call, accurately identifying your perceived opponent's weakness, and maximizing it to your perceived advantage.   I say perceived because I believe that, in fact, your own interests would be better served by seeking win-win collaboration and value-enhancing synergies than by exercising your oppositional personality disorder.

It would not, in fact, be "easy" for me to enumerate a billion in ventures full stop.  I would have to include "miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net".   Correction made.

One small aspect of the brilliance of bitcoin in its conception and execution is that it aggregates to its own agenda the resources previously dedicated to the fiat economy.  While resources freshly allocated to bitcoin may be less than 2 billions (but certainly more than 1 billion, and hence deserving of the term "billions", rather than "millions", which would be mendaciously misleading) the resources now commanded by bitcoin, subservient and leveraged to its design goals, are on the order of tens of billions in USDnow terms.  If bitcoin achieves its maximum conceivable penetrative success, without the expense of more than X USD of fresh purposefully dedicated infrastructure, it will have done so my commandeering trillions is pre-existing infrastructure, and re-purposing it.

By the way, hd, your attack, while well placed, lacked force.  You quoted (to your credit) parts of the source which supported my position, and the conclusions of the quote were weak refutation, if they even qualified as refutation.  The source enumerates 300 millions and explicitly states that this underestimates the total.  Moreover the source does not include resources which I explicitly mentioned (without estimating).  If the source were to underestimate by a factor of 3, it would not be incorrect as a result, thus both the source and my statement can be simultaneously true.  Thus the source is no refutation at all.  (That you choose obsessive oppositionalism over a synergetic approach, which would seek to extract what valid truth can be found instead of finding fault where perfection is lacking - everywhere, in fact -  is probably not doing you good service.)

I should not have said "easily"  but I persist that I can enumerate in excess of a billion, without excessive stretching.  This would involved many disputable numbers and perhaps even disputable resources.  They would still be enumerated, and their total would still be serving the interests of bitcoin's design, some in a dedicated manner, some in a multipurpose manner, the latter mostly inherited from pre-existing infrastructure, but fractionally co-opted by bitcoin.  It would also include ventures not considered in the total reported by your source.

(If both law and principle prevent me from defending myself with lead or steel, I can at least man up enough to use the tongue granted me, in the most temperate but penetrating manner which I can promptly muster.)

First, english is not my first language so apologize for not writing essays to rhetorically back up my POV,
Second, i'm not being not constructive; maybe you don't like my sense of humor or my cynicism (which is aimed mostly on Mark and bitcoin heists)
And third, i'm no fan of picky chitchat and referenceless tirades.

So yea, i'd have definitely enjoy drawing pistols at dawn with you, but lets not make it that dramatic, since deep down, we all are here for the same reasons.

Anyho, im not saying you always talk BS (although im certainly not going to agree about this billion $ you are fanatically conjuring). Just that i also dont like being insulted. And at least I backed up my answer to you with a reference, which you clearly did not when calling me a liar or stupid..

So lets burry the War Axe and move on to more interesting subjects.

And since you seem to like latin quotes here you go:

Oculi plus vident quam oculus

[Oblodo]

In China the number666 is considered to be lucky and is often displayed in shop windows and neon signs... is someone keeping BTC prices lucky?

[soullyG]

New update on www.mtgox.com:

March 4, 2013

Comprehensive Prohibition Order Judgment Announcement Rehabilitation debtor MtGox Co., Ltd. received on February 28, 2014 a comprehensive prohibition order from the Tokyo District Court. Following the instructions of the Court, the text of the judgment is hereby published:

No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation.

[koryu]

In China the number666 is considered to be lucky and is often displayed in shop windows and neon signs... is someone keeping BTC prices lucky?

could be, but prolly 4000 cny is a psychological wall which is around 650$. historically stamps price is bit higher so here we go 666

[lebing]

New update on www.mtgox.com:

March 4, 2013


No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation.

What language is that?

[soullyG]

New update on www.mtgox.com:

March 4, 2013


No forced execution or preliminary attachment or disposition shall be made by a rehabilitation creditor on the basis of a rehabilitation debt with regard to the properties of the rehabilitation debtor during the period until a decision shall be made with regard to the application for commencement of civil rehabilitation.

What language is that?

Karpelese