Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Richy_T]

IN other words, what are you referring to..? explain yourself rather than providing some puzzle that is meant to show your brilliance.

OK. I am really trying to wind this down now so I skipped replying to a comment above (though apparently your definitions don't agree with your interpretations) and I'll keep this brief. He said that he didn't want to be strongarmed into contributing to this scheme because it is *his* money, 30% or 0.01%. It does not follow that he wouldn't voluntarily contribute in the least. That is entirely something that you have overlayed onto things.

[aminorex]

PSA:  It's generally appreciated not to quote the trolls.  Ignore button doesn't apply to quotations, sadly.

[JayJuanGee]

You seem to be suggesting that government impedes innovations...

OK, real world example: Government mandates catalytic convertors. Auto manufacturers develop lean-burn engines that have pollutant output similar or better than that provided by catalytic converters and are more efficient to boot. Lean-burn engines are not compatible with catalytic converters so are shelved. There are many of this kind of thing if you keep your ears open but I'm not going to sit here and read a list to you.

Edit: Enough of this here anyway. Wrong thread.

Yes.. of course, we could list a large number of examples of where things go wrong, and your after the fact attempt remains insufficient b/c it fails to provide a context. 

We can also list a large number of examples of government funding that created innovation.  These examples do NOT prove points, unless they are described in a context and have some overall applicability to what is being argued. 

[gizmoh]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

[JorgeStolfi]

Basically, Li thinks that a platform will need to make its revenues from value-added services rather than trading, which he sees as a basic service and a commodity that should be free for consumers.

What services are they selling? Let me guess, premium memberships that include a pause button to execute your trades before non-premium members?

Good question.  Apart from "selling their clients' coins" of course. 

Perhaps bitcoin lending (don't they do that already?).  Priority in the placement of bids/asks (a subtler alternative to a "pause" button?

In my understanding, bitcoin as a currency of e-commerce or as a bona-fide financial instrument is dead in China, and I don't see that changing in the future.

[keewee]

With GOLD you have at least something in your hands, no matter if it is really worth the price or not. Bitcoins are just bits, only virtual, nothing manifested. You cant hold it in your hands like money (yeah its only paper), gold, ice cream or whatever. I think most people, including me, have problems with this.

Worse. Bitcoins are not even bits. There are no bitcoins, only the transfer of bitcoins.

If you have problems with this though, the door is over thataway.

there is usb that u can store bitcoin on and also paper wallets

Yes, by analogy it is like a stone tablet with writing carved into it. What is a piece of stone worth? Sweet f a. But the missing stone areas that are filled with air (again worthless) give it value. Perhaps the blockchain can be thought of this way

[Walsoraj]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Thx FINRA. We were all unaware that bitcoin is a speculative investment.

[Richy_T]

there is usb that u can store bitcoin on and also paper wallets

I do hope you're being facetious

[MikeH]

I'm not a fan of staying on topic but how about we use a different colour for those who want to skim past the random drivel..

[kkaspar]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Thx FINRA. We were all unaware that bitcoin is a speculative investment.

Everyone here are also aware that most of the bitcoins are owned by anonymous people, who in all probability and considering the history, are drug dealers, computer crackers or confidence man. By trusting your wealth in bitcoin, you are trusting that this criminal element won't dump their coins to acquire your wealth as their own.

[rjp55]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Thx FINRA. We were all unaware that bitcoin is a speculative investment.

Everyone here are also aware that most of the bitcoins are owned by anonymous people, who in all probability and considering the history, are drug dealers, computer crackers or confidence man. By trusting your wealth in bitcoin, you are trusting that this criminal element won't dump their coins to acquire your wealth as their own.

Why do you post here?

You sound like the annoying brat telling a group of smokers how bad it is for their health over and over. What's it to you? Light up or screw off.

[UnDerDoG81]

PSA:  It's generally appreciated not to quote the trolls.  Ignore button doesn't apply to quotations, sadly.

If you mean me, I´m no troll, I´m 90% in Bitcoin 

Just writing my thoughts, why usual people are probably not interested in buying Bitcoins.

[Nemo1024]

I'm not a fan of staying on topic but how about we use a different colour for those who want to skim past the random drivel..

That's be more efficient if those who posted on-topic used a different colour. 

[aminorex]

PSA:  It's generally appreciated not to quote the trolls.  Ignore button doesn't apply to quotations, sadly.

If you mean me, I´m no troll, I´m 90% in Bitcoin 

Just writing my thoughts, why usual people are probably not interested in buying Bitcoins.

No I don't mean you.  It's crucially important for anyone investing in bitcoin to understand its problems, and criticism is very helpful in that regard.

I'm very doubtful that, e.g. kkaspar in particular, could ever manage to make such a useful contribution.  

There may be bull trolls as well, but I'm less sensitive to those.  Many might consider me to be one.

[kkaspar]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Thx FINRA. We were all unaware that bitcoin is a speculative investment.

Everyone here are also aware that most of the bitcoins are owned by anonymous people, who in all probability and considering the history, are drug dealers, computer crackers or confidence man. By trusting your wealth in bitcoin, you are trusting that this criminal element won't dump their coins to acquire your wealth as their own.

Why do you post here?

You sound like the annoying brat telling a group of smokers how bad it is for their health over and over. What's it to you? Light up or screw off.

To balance things out. Yeah, when a group of smokers like to cheer to each other, how good smoking is for their health, then I'm exactly the guy who cuts in and recommends to have at least minimal grip on reality.

[rjp55]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, or Finra, on Tuesday issued an investor alert on bitcoin, saying digital currencies are "more than a bit risky." The agency said the alert was intended to caution investors about the risks inherent in buying and using digital currencies like bitcoin. That includes risks from speculative trading and potential fraud related to bitcoin companies, the alert said. The move came after the collapse of the bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox in late February, which filed for bankruptcy in Japan and the U.S. said it lost customers' bitcoins. "Digital currency such as bitcoin is not legal tender," the Finra alert said, which also warned about the lack of safeguards in place for consumers, the irreversibility of bitcoin transactions, and its association with illegal activities.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/finra-alert-says-bitcoin-more-than-a-bit-risky-2014-03-11?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Thx FINRA. We were all unaware that bitcoin is a speculative investment.

Everyone here are also aware that most of the bitcoins are owned by anonymous people, who in all probability and considering the history, are drug dealers, computer crackers or confidence man. By trusting your wealth in bitcoin, you are trusting that this criminal element won't dump their coins to acquire your wealth as their own.

Why do you post here?

You sound like the annoying brat telling a group of smokers how bad it is for their health over and over. What's it to you? Light up or screw off.

To balance things out. Yeah, when a group of smokers like to cheer to each other, how good smoking is for their health, then I'm exactly the guy who cuts in and recommends to have at least minimal grip on reality.

That's my point, you act like people aren't aware of the risks already. Go run along and do something else.

I just bought a couple more just to spite people like you.

[MAbtc]

Nobody posts TA on this forum anymore.  

I thought I just did:

...

If you could rip it to shreds, that would help get the thread on-task.

I can't add much to those thoughts as I do not attempt to extrapolate mid-term trends from long-term trends (well, I am only interested in mid-term trends -- you and I can likely agree on the long term, anyway). This is the nature of counter-trends. I did draw some charts to meet your conditions, but I don't understand why this should be predictive, rather than coincidental.

[kkaspar]

That's my point, you act like people aren't aware of the risks already. Go run along and do something else.

I just bought a couple more just to spite people like you.

People sure aren't acting like they are aware of the risks already. I'll probably get my account banned soon, so you don't have to see my name any longer. Can't promise that you won't see my text anymore though.

The last line you wrote was a little weird. To me, that's like shooting yourself in the foot just to spite people like me :/

[threecats]

That's my point, you act like people aren't aware of the risks already. Go run along and do something else.

I just bought a couple more just to spite people like you.

People sure aren't acting like they are aware of the risks already. I'll probably get my account banned soon, so you don't have to see my name any longer. Can't promise that you won't see my text anymore though.

The last line you wrote was a little weird. To me, that's like shooting yourself in the foot just to spite people like me :/

yea, that's why he is buying bitcoin. to spite you.

pitch that one to your shrink. might be productive.

[ErisDiscordia]

Well this thread sure isn't the best playground to hold this debate, it's moving too fast.

[snip]
However, that does NOT mean that we are going to agree that we should throw away our existing system, prior to the more broader implementations of these various innovations.

I do not advocate the "throwing away of our existing system". In fact, here is what I advocated some posts ago:

I advocate the movement towards the anarchy part of the spectrum. Not in any violent, preferably not even sudden manner, because I think that would cause confusion and suffering. I do this because I am convinced that decentralized/voluntary/anarchistic forms of societal organization are far superior to centralized forms in terms of their efficiency.

I can see why you would project that thought at me. As with any group of people, dogmatic, oversimplifying people seem to be a vocal majority among anarchists.

[snip]
if you are proposing another system, then let us know what that would be exactly and how it would play out.  

I really feel like debating Bitcoin with someone who just keeps asking me "yes OK I understand it is decentralized, but WHO RUNS IT? WHO CONTROLS IT?" I have told you, that I am advocating movement towards anarchy. How would you describe the "system" of anarchy? You don't, because there is no one single system. The point I keep repeating here is that you and I do not know what particular system would be better suited to our needs, nor do we know how a system change would play out and to claim we do is to engage in humongous hubris. It does not follow, though, that there can be no such system. The thought, that the best possible system can be devised by a person or a group seems ridiculous to me. I am saying that we should treat society more like an organism, which grows from the inside out, than a mechanism, which is assembled from its constituent parts according to a central plan, to fulfill certain functions.

Incidentally I am all in favor of this:

However, that does NOT mean that we are going to agree that we should throw away our existing system, prior to the more broader implementations of these various innovations.

I have suggested this before: to simply "cancel" the government right now would probably prove disastrous in the short term. The culture, the infrastructure, practically everything is not ready for this, because there are no alternatives ready. Government has a too dominant role in most important areas of human life. In many of them they ban competition. Before we can transition to any kind of hypothetical government-free state, these alternatives need to be created first, otherwise the transition might prove too painful. Quitting cold turkey might not be advisable in this state of high addiction to government.

What I am saying is let us work on creating these alternatives. If you do not wish to participate, I sympathize (but why are you involved with Bitcoin, I wonder?). You keep asking me to provide proof that they can work, but how can I do that? We need to try, to find out. Besides, I have already stated that it might indeed be the case, that governmental organizations have been a necessary part of civilization until the advent of the internet. But I feel that with this technology at hand, we need to re-test this belief. I have provided no "proof", nor real life examples, just a bunch of concepts and explanations, speculations and musings on why self-organizing, decentralized systems exhibit properties of emergent order and why that might be a good thing to apply to society. What more can I provide? I don't have your desired thought out central plan how to achieve decentralization.  Should I go on about how Wikipedia is superior to the Encyclopedia Britannica due to its decentralized nature?

Anyways, I'm happy for you that you seem to be quite content with the current system. Hope you can appreciate people trying to explore alternatives and tolerate their sometimes heretical thoughts while they do so. In the end if the result is having more freedom of choice, you'll be better off to. Or is the freedom of choice between different flavors of government enough for you?