Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[joesmoe2012]

Chartbuddy is back 

Never been a fan.

[1714706184]

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[derpinheimer]

i couldnt find my transactions in btc-transfer-report, found my id in mtgox_balances

use wallet-id instead of user-id

If I dont have my activation email, is there anywhere else to look?

The only number I was able to find was this but I'm not sure if its mine..

02a2c525-316a-4c8c-b99a-33d2f438c2be

I see two results in the text file for it.

[Zule]

wtf is up on stamp, 20btc buy-sell back and forth...

[JayJuanGee]

Involuntary takings are theft regardless of who is doing the taking.

Or how.

Taxation.

Taxation and theft are of two different categories...

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Oh yeah, and theft within the government can be quite complicated as well.... yet mostly different from the kinds of thefts going on in bitcoin circles.

[JayJuanGee]

Mr Idiot seems to have rolled back his hyperbole and isn't publishing his whatever it is tomorrow http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/

The "bitcoin community" is haunted by zombies -- people and entities that should have been expelled and forgotten long ago but are still walking around doing damage.   Mark Karpeles and the Shrem Karpeles & Friends Foundation are the two egregious examples.  (The former founder of Brazil's  BitcoinRain is our local example here.)

It seems that being "a respected member of the bitcoin community" is more like a nobility title than a job.  Once you become one, you remain one for life, no matter what mess and damage you do.

Two-bit idiot accused two members of the Board of having had privileged access of some sort at MtGOX.  Now he says that he is backing down because the community closed ranks around those people, and because he does not want to give ammunition to "bitcoin's formibdable enemies".   Can't he see that by doing so he is doing just that? 

MtGOX could be dismissed as a scam by done by a single-person, it the community had been quick to disown him as soon as his management of the exchange became suspicious and harmful to his clients. Instead we saw many "respected members of the community" support him.

See for instance Roger Ver's emphatically vouching for the solvency of MtGOX, when he must have been conscious that he had not enough evidence of it.  Was he motivated by his friendship to Mark, or by his belief that preserving the image of MtGOX was important to preserve the public image of bitcoin?  Either way, he apparently thought that such  motive was more improtant than preventing investors from putting their money and bitcoins into a dubious business.   In the end, his testimonial only hurt the image of bitcoin even more:  "Is there anyone in that community that we can trust?"

The about-face of the Two-Bit Idiot seem to be another instance of that mentality, and to me has the same effect as Ver's testimonial...

I agree with some of your conclusions about bitcoin leaders need to set good examples, and surely the community of bitcoin leaders is evolving.   

Nonetheless, I think you are over simplifying and potentially misleading if you try to equate these various bitcoin personalities, b/c they each have their particular circumstances  in which they are NOT equals. 

Shrem was likely set up by the US Govt (harassment of sorts). 

Still do NOT know why Ver vouched for Mt. Gox.. that has NOT been explained, yet b/c we still do NOT know what is going on, exactly, with GOC. 

Two bit idiot has his own conflicting issues, and based on the current evidence, there is NO way that we can be sure that he is acting in betrayal or bad faith in having had pulled back from his earlier threat to publish insider information regarding potential shenanigans of foundation members.

[Richy_T]

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Try not paying and see what happens. Just because a gang outnumbers you does not make the robbery any the less.

[btc237ftw]

You can probably bind the data in the MtGox database with blockchain data. Then, you can find all MtGox used Bitcoin addresses. Then, you can find where the rabbit hole goes ...

brilliant

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[hdbuck]

You can probably bind the data in the MtGox database with blockchain data. Then, you can find all MtGox used Bitcoin addresses. Then, you can find where the rabbit hole goes ...

brilliant

cant beat the ponzi
the remaining coins are belong to mark
no one is ever going to get something back

[JayJuanGee]

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Try not paying and see what happens. Just because a gang outnumbers you does not make the robbery any the less.

I prefer NOT to get into drawn out discussion about the role of government, and/or the extent to which there is a consensual nature to being governed or being a part of a society. 

Nonetheless, I am suggesting that equating individualized theft (or being robbed by a corporation or being defrauded) with taxation will cause considerable oversimplification about the differing concepts and differing dynamics. 

Viewing taxation as theft (or as an involuntary taking) is bringing the wrong framework b/c questions about taxation are a lot more complicated than theft  or other categories of involuntary takings.  For example, you mention the size of the gang... and this seems to be fuzzy logic to view government as a gang.. .. as if you are being ganged up upon and that government is something apart from one's self... even though there remain tensions between community and self, theft is different.

[wachtwoord]

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Try not paying and see what happens. Just because a gang outnumbers you does not make the robbery any the less.

I prefer NOT to get into drawn out discussion about the role of government, and/or the extent to which there is a consensual nature to being governed or being a part of a society. 

Nonetheless, I am suggesting that equating individualized theft (or being robbed by a corporation or being defrauded) with taxation will cause considerable oversimplification about the differing concepts and differing dynamics. 

Viewing taxation as theft (or as an involuntary taking) is bringing the wrong framework b/c questions about taxation are a lot more complicated than theft  or other categories of involuntary takings.  For example, you mention the size of the gang... and this seems to be fuzzy logic to view government as a gang.. .. as if you are being ganged up upon and that government is something apart from one's self... even though there remain tensions between community and self, theft is different.

It actually is the exact same thing. It's just that in the case of taxation the group doing the taken are much more powerful and at the same time believe (for the most part) that they are morally in the right (which they aren't in my opinion).

[JorgeStolfi]

Chinese Boring Even With Dinosaurs Slumber Method prediction for Monday Mar/10

Prediction valid for: Monday 2014-03-10, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after)
Huobi's predicted price: 3938 CNY.
Bitstamp's predicted price: 656 USD.

Huobi

The red and green strokes are actual Huobi hourly prices.  The current prediction is the rightmost magenta square.  The blue square is the last prediction (see below), and the light blue-gray squares are the previous ones.  The orange and grey dots are the Slumber Points, the mean Huobi prices at 19:00 UTC every day.  Each point is a Glyptodon if the hourly volume V_h for 19:00--19:59 UTC is less than 0.005 times the daily volume V_d 00:00--23:59 UTC; and is an Albertosaurus otherwise. The grey lines are trends fitted a posteriori to the Glyptodon Points. The orange line is the trend that was assumed for the prediction. The Germanodactyl (hereby assumed to be an ancestor of Bos primigenius) indicates that the trend is ascending.

Today again was a Glyptodon, again barely (V_h/V_d = 0.00487 < 0.005).  This point is obviously not on the same trend as the Mar/04--06 Glyptodons, so it seems reasonable to assume a new trend, the straight line defined by the last two Glyptodons; namely, p(d) = A+B*(d-8), where d is the day of the month, A = 3668 and B = +135. 

Bitstamp

The red and green strokes are actual Bitstamp hourly prices.  The dots, dinosaurs, mammals, lines, and squares are Huobi's Slumber Points, dinosaurs, mammals, trends, and predictions, scaled by the currency conversion factor R.

The actual price ratio between Huobi and Bitstamp has been has been below 6.00 for most of last week:

Therefore it seems necessary to adopt a new value of R in order to map the predicitons from one to the other. Accordingly I am now using R = 6.40 for Feb/07--09, R = 6.00 since Mar/04, and R = 6.12 for all other times before.  This new value of R was used to map the points and trends above, and the new prediction (the magenta square), but not the past predictions.

Checking the previous prediction

Prediction was posted on: Saturday 2014-03-08, 21:54 UTC
Prediction was valid for: Sunday 2014-03-09, 19:00--19:59 UTC

Huobi's predicted price: 3596 CNY
Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 3803 CNY
Error: 207 CNY (~35 USD)

Bitstamp's predicted price: 588 USD
Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 641 USD
Error: 53 USD

NOTE: Back to chicken-chasing mode, it seems

[adamstgBit]

Jorge did you buy a bitcoin yet?

[billyjoeallen]

Involuntary takings are theft regardless of who is doing the taking.

Or how.

Taxation.

Taxation and theft are of two different categories...

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Oh yeah, and theft within the government can be quite complicated as well.... yet mostly different from the kinds of thefts going on in bitcoin circles.

We have a fundamental difference in outlook. It is a commonly believed lie that if the group of people have a certain cloak of legitimacy and do the taking ostensibly for the benefit of the victims and go by a certain "transparent" process that such involuntary takings are not in fact theft. All this means is that it is a successful theft, not something else. I will not budge on this. If I am imprisoned and I eat the prison cafeteria food to keep from starving, it does not mean I volunteer to be imprisoned. I do not consent.

[Walsoraj]

https://blockchain.info/address/1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508683.0

What do you guys make of this?

[adamstgBit]

https://blockchain.info/address/1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508683.0

What do you guys make of this?

isnt that wasnt that the #1 richest bitcoin address?

[JayJuanGee]

Also, I would NOT categorize taxation as an involuntary taking.... ... even though there are some difficulties in electing within which society (community) and set up that we want to live.  The role of government tends to be a complicated topic... and such topic has been especially inflammatory from time to time....

Try not paying and see what happens. Just because a gang outnumbers you does not make the robbery any the less.

I prefer NOT to get into drawn out discussion about the role of government, and/or the extent to which there is a consensual nature to being governed or being a part of a society. 

Nonetheless, I am suggesting that equating individualized theft (or being robbed by a corporation or being defrauded) with taxation will cause considerable oversimplification about the differing concepts and differing dynamics. 

Viewing taxation as theft (or as an involuntary taking) is bringing the wrong framework b/c questions about taxation are a lot more complicated than theft  or other categories of involuntary takings.  For example, you mention the size of the gang... and this seems to be fuzzy logic to view government as a gang.. .. as if you are being ganged up upon and that government is something apart from one's self... even though there remain tensions between community and self, theft is different.

It actually is the exact same thing. It's just that in the case of taxation the group doing the taken are much more powerful and at the same time believe (for the most part) that they are morally in the right (which they aren't in my opinion).

You as a citizen have a role in government, and you have a choice in where to live. 

Government is not Other people ganging up on you - even though frequently, it may seem as if an individual cannot do much to change the society in which s/he lives, but government is NOT the same as a thief. 

I have already made my point several times that a person asserting that the government is the same as a thief is failing to recognize complexity.. and chooses to simplify to the point of losing the point.. and if you keep repeating it over and over that government is the same it is the same, that does NOT prove any point.  Accordingly, there is NOT much use of continuing such a conversation in which I am saying that government is different from a thief.. and you (and others) are saying that government is the same as a thief.. We are NOT getting anywhere... and probably, it does NOT matter too much to the subject of this thread or the original point that was being made, which I believe was involving Mt. Gox taking BTC from customers.

[adamstgBit]

https://blockchain.info/address/1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310600.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508683.0

What do you guys make of this?

isnt that wasnt that the #1 richest bitcoin address?

it appears to be getting split into blocks of 10K coins

[JorgeStolfi]

Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):


             !   Sun !    Mon !    Tue !    Wed !    Thu !    Fri !    Sat !    Sun !                     
  EXCHANGE   ! 03/02 !  03/03 !  03/04 !  03/05 !  03/06 !  03/07 !  03/08 !  03/09 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp   |  6.44 |  64.91 |  28.03 |  12.72 |  10.40 |  21.45 |   9.70 |   9.12 | USD                 
  BitFinEx   |  3.13 |  50.92 |  25.03 |   8.38 |   7.06 |  17.23 |  10.97 |   8.29 | USD                 
  BTC-e      |  4.58 |  41.71 |  28.83 |  11.19 |   5.69 |  13.54 |   8.71 |   6.52 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  Kraken     |  0.32 |   2.82 |   1.81 |   0.87 |   0.71 |   1.20 |   0.55 |   0.64 | EUR                 
  Bitcoin.DE |  0.32 |   1.34 |   1.02 |   0.40 |   0.34 |   0.38 |   0.31 |   0.20 | EUR                 
  CaVirtEx   |  0.19 |   0.55 |   0.33 |   0.22 |   0.22 |   0.24 |   0.12 |   0.15 | CAD                 
  CampBX     |  0.07 |   0.28 |   0.14 |   0.04 |   0.03 |   0.07 |   0.03 |   0.02 | USD                 

  SUBTOTAL   | 15.05 | 162.53 |  85.19 |  33.82 |  24.45 |  54.11 |  30.39 |  24.94 |                     

  OKCoin     | 34.99 | 126.48 | 137.35 | 286.05 | 139.37 | 109.70 | 146.46 | 136.24 | CNY                 
  Huobi      | 40.64 | 253.71 | 268.47 | 196.00 |  92.40 |  96.37 | 119.46 | 103.51 | CNY                 
  BTC-China  |  2.64 |  16.59 |  15.36 |   8.04 |   5.58 |   4.87 |   5.08 |   4.24 | CNY                 
  Bter       |  0.24 |   0.67 |   0.64 |   0.31 |   0.32 |   0.32 |   0.28 |   0.21 | CNY                 

  SUBTOTAL   | 78.51 | 397.45 | 421.82 | 490.40 | 237.67 | 211.26 | 271.28 | 244.20 |                     

  TOTAL      | 93.56 | 559.98 | 507.01 | 524.22 | 262.12 | 265.37 | 301.67 | 269.14 |                     


All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that Bitcoinwisdom uses your local time, so the date may appear to be off by 1 day.  For example, if you are 2 hours west of Greenwich, it may show "01/14 22:00" when the UTC time is "01/15 00:00".)

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation