Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[cygan]

If you call this a bear market, you must be new here

https://twitter.com/LinaSeiche/status/1495770860661129225

[Torque]

Not only is Bitcoin NOT fungible it is ABSOLUTELY NOT fungible from a pure mathematical aspect.  EVERY satoshi has a pedigree.  You can trace it's origin all the way to the coinbase it was initially realized in.  And you can see the trail of addresses it is passed through to wherever it currently rests.

Before you get all mad at me, and Batslap me... I am NOT making a case for a shitcoin.  I am just being honest about a feature of bitcoin that we need to come to grips with, and the sooner we do the better.

Careful there, brother - you're deviating from the anointed canon. You might be drawn and quartered over the coals.

Yea, yeah.  I know.  I do try to respect this thread's bias (or basic thesis), and agree with it for the vast most part.  AND I think privacy in bitcoin is VERY IMPORTANT to fight for.  So I bring it up trying to speak as little for the one shitcoin I like... but of course that shitcoin comes up because well... it is doing something important.  Buy again, I try to avoid stirring that up in here very much, lol... I may have overstepped a little this time.  Ah well.

Don't listen to jbreher. He is wrong of course, as usual.

Arguing for more privacy in Bitcoin, which you were doing, is completely fine here. Most would agree. And I don't think anyone would protest if more privacy functionality made its way into Bitcoin.

-but-

Arguing here that some forked shitcoin created by either Roger/Jihan or CSW has actual value, like jbreher likes to do, is completely asinine. The market has spoken on that.

Big difference.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Copetech]

*Snip*

The part that is really starting to worry me is the fact that so many Canadians (and Americans) are supporting this, and even more that the majority of people (everywhere) do not see that this is not about a protest.  This is a planned action.  A takeover.  And it is probably just the opening act of the plan in this hemisphere.

Joe Biden famously said that the second amendment does not protect you if you are fighting the Nuclear weapon wielding US military.

What’s happened is that there have never been — if you wanted or if you think you need to have weapons to take on the government, you need F-15s and maybe some nuclear weapons.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/23/remarks-by-president-biden-and-attorney-general-garland-on-gun-crime-prevention-strategy/

Well, Mr. "President".  You will need to send one of your jets to my home then.

Where he is wrong is the fact that some of us have decided that if it comes to it we will call that bet, and we will die fighting.   I am one of those.  I would rather be remembered by my descendants as someone who fought against the tyranny than as a coward that stood by as evil men tried to take control of the world.

I have begun preparing for this possibility, and will be as ready as possible.  My biggest hope is that there will be members of the military and police of western democracies who will also stand up.  That includes any of you three letter people reading this.  And I have no desire to die or even fight, but I will.  I also hope my state considers taking a stand if the time comes.

Currently, personally I have only met a very few of my GenX brethren that see it... the boomers are too busy trying to suck up as much new money as possible, and the Millennials and Zoomers are rolling out the red carpet for the communists.  Hopefully it is not just my nihilist generation that is left to save the west... lol.

Chin Up there Cowboy!
There's a LOT more Boomer support than you think and even a decent sampling of underfunded and still a bit Green Millenials... but the Zoomers are likely lost. So yea, X is the front line.
Just know that the "Blue Ridge" is a formidable (and not so thin) Blue Line.
Lots of resources, both Natural & Stockpiled... I think we'll be Aight... but it won't be pretty.


"May you live in interesting times..."

[eXPHorizon]

Nah dude there is only the Boomer support. Millenials are starting to distance themselves or choose different projects that they see fit for their Portfolios.


I been talking with some friends from America that Blue Ridge is a nice place to search for Gold Nuggets. Most fun one to find fine and nugget gold is Coker Creek . Might be a fun weekend if anyone decides to explore there

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[cAPSLOCK]

*Snip*

The part that is really starting to worry me is the fact that so many Canadians (and Americans) are supporting this, and even more that the majority of people (everywhere) do not see that this is not about a protest.  This is a planned action.  A takeover.  And it is probably just the opening act of the plan in this hemisphere.

Joe Biden famously said that the second amendment does not protect you if you are fighting the Nuclear weapon wielding US military.

What’s happened is that there have never been — if you wanted or if you think you need to have weapons to take on the government, you need F-15s and maybe some nuclear weapons.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/06/23/remarks-by-president-biden-and-attorney-general-garland-on-gun-crime-prevention-strategy/

Well, Mr. "President".  You will need to send one of your jets to my home then.

Where he is wrong is the fact that some of us have decided that if it comes to it we will call that bet, and we will die fighting.   I am one of those.  I would rather be remembered by my descendants as someone who fought against the tyranny than as a coward that stood by as evil men tried to take control of the world.

I have begun preparing for this possibility, and will be as ready as possible.  My biggest hope is that there will be members of the military and police of western democracies who will also stand up.  That includes any of you three letter people reading this.  And I have no desire to die or even fight, but I will.  I also hope my state considers taking a stand if the time comes.

Currently, personally I have only met a very few of my GenX brethren that see it... the boomers are too busy trying to suck up as much new money as possible, and the Millennials and Zoomers are rolling out the red carpet for the communists.  Hopefully it is not just my nihilist generation that is left to save the west... lol.

Chin Up there Cowboy!
There's a LOT more Boomer support than you think and even a decent sampling of underfunded and still a bit Green Millenials... but the Zoomers are likely lost. So yea, X is the front line.
Just know that the "Blue Ridge" is a formidable (and not so thin) Blue Line.
Lots of resources, both Natural & Stockpiled... I think we'll be Aight... but it won't be pretty.


"May you live in interesting times..."

Good to hear about the boomers and millennials... I mean, I know they are out there... I just have not spoken to any.  And they don't want to have to rely solely on the Xers.. What a ragtag bunch we are.

I will be up in the Blue Ridge in about a month for a few days.  A place very dear to my heart.  Home.

[El duderino_]

[modrobert]

oh and tons of tear gas and rubber bullets.  good memories.

I remember when they did this outside the white house just so Trump could take a stroll down the road and hold up a bible outside a church, good memories indeed  

Keep playing the "my side good, your side bad" game to the very end if you want the plan that is unfolding to work.  The polarization of every kind of group has been building for decades, and it too is part of the plan to destroy the west.

I agree with cAPSLOCK, there are only two camps in this situation; the corrupted in power and those who aren't, every other "insert what you hate the most moniker here" is a distraction which will weaken us. The "divide and conquer" tactic never seems to get old because people fall for it every time. How about we set our petty differences aside and deal with the corrupted in power first, then we can go back to disagreeing about details? I think the hard part will be waking up those who are sleeping through this, either addicted to substances or smartphones which constantly tracks their location and activity. As others recently pointed out, maybe the whole Ukraine war situation is a devious plan to eventually make us agree to more shit which will limit our freedoms?

Here's my attempt to stay on topic (WO). With the recent news (discussed in latest Joe Rogan episode #1780) about western governments introducing "programmable digital currency" replacing fiat which combines China's "social credit" system with a currency which can prevent you from buying stuff based on government incentives (eg. this is unhealthy for you), and easily blocked when you don't obey authority. This is the most bullish news I've heard for Bitcoin in a long time, if we don't get massive adoption after people wrap their head around this I don't know what will (that distant 100k USD wall feels a lot closer now).

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[d_eddie]

I would merit shower hisslyness…

But a user can only send 50 merit/30 days to one single person….
At this point for the moment….

Cheers

He's getting showered all the same ;-)

[Torque]

FUN FACT:
The American Revolutionary War did not start over unfair taxes, but rather because the Bank of England seized the money supply of the colonists and banned an American currency.

https://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/06/other-reason-for-american-revolution.html

[d_eddie]

TL/DR;

Bob rage quit running an LN node because he values his sanity and life outside of Bitcoin.

WO forum begs him to un-rage quit because "We need more LN node operators!" _{(do we really tho?)}.

Bob vows to rejoin the insanity in 18 months.

Out of merits but I lol'ed  

EDIT Thanks Duuuuuuude!!

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Paashaas]

Given everything going on in my life, managing a LN node is more negative, parasitic energy that has complicated my life beyond any rational measure.

I need to step away, for my own mental health and sanity.

Geez - I've been away for several quarters, and the news don't change. AKA history repeats

Managing high end technology issues -which will be resolved irrevocable in the foreseeable future- in Bob's current stressful personal life - he just needs a break to get things sorted- has nothing to do with supporting your beloved bCash SV, which has plummeted to oblivion, like we all expected it that history will repeat itself endlessly with all shitcoins. Giving that, youre shattered shitcoin dreams meets harsh reality while Lightning is vigorous flourishing in all metrics like never before.

Aww, jbreher is back for 5 minutes after months of absence and you he smack him! instantly talking nonsense again  C'mon...  at least let him get in ONE jab first. rethink his inscrutable.

[cAPSLOCK]

We can all get scared away from using those kinds of pooling services, but the reality of the matter is that they tend to be very effective and ultimately if they are used on a wide-spread basis lead the government to having to blacklist all bitcoin addresses.. which surely is neither workable nor practical, but it works so long as they can scare people away from using those mixing/pooling services.

That seems to be their attack vector of late, seizing anything from mixing services.

Like Bob pointed out a few pages back, Layer 2 needs to address this.

Or there is Monero atomic swaps now.
Don bat slap me man!

I am really tempted to batslap you for that last point.. but maybe I don't know enough regarding some of the potential back and forth that could create some utility between coins, too.. because sometimes if a lot of people are engaging in various kinds of mixing or even back and forth between coins options, and it has become a kind of standard practice for a large proportion of the population to be engaging in those kinds of attempts at privacy/security preservation, then it is harder to distinguish the potentially illicit (or targeted for the wrong reasons.. nobody here is either engaging in illegal activity or aiming to engage in illegal activity.. not going to presume that) content.. back to the 5 out of a 1,000 example.... it becomes difficult for any analyst or government/bank official to block or blacklist those addresses without due process and then claim that they are treating you fairly... In the short-term they will claim that you are being treated fairly as they steal your money.. it's for your own good.

Keeping on topic as best i can in this regard... I think the atomic swap functionality with Monero is a special case sort of arrangement that has HUGE benefits for Bitcoin.

The tradeoffs that Monero makes to achieve the level of privacy it does are tradeoffs I think would be a mistake to add to the Bitcoin base layer even if there was a way it could be done, which I am also doubtful about.  An obfuscated base layer has complications that would likely make Bitcoin actually LOSE some of the features that the design choices that Satoshi wisely made.

Atomic swaps with the defacto privacy chain adds all the benefits Monero has without taking on any of the downsides.  Now... It is not impossible for a pegged side/drivechain to take the Monero tech and replicate it, as LIQUID has in small part by implementing (only) Confidential Transactions.  And in fact the people on the OTHER SIDE of the trade are the ones taking the risk as they can count on getting tainted coins eventually.

But if you need to do a transaction that has the absolute BEST CHANCE of being private then why would you take chances with anything else.  Like that the transaction privacy protects your life.  I honestly think this relationship will continue to be an advantage for both chains for a very long time.

I actually think a lot of the features being test-bedded on ETH and MATIC etc are going to come to a native Bitcoin sidechain like Liquid, and I think a (very) few other chains will interact with Bitcoin via atomic swaps without the ridiculous risk that comes with something like ETH.  Making bulletproof (no pun) atomic swaps between BTC/XMR is a isolated single purpose design.  I think these are the correct ways to go rather than the kitchen sink kinds of designs in the big block smart contract chains.

Also, I think Satoshi himself strongly supported the idea of a FEW utility blockchains as COMPLIMENTS to bitcoin making sense (going back to the Namecoin discussions).

I humbly submit to my batslappening, and will not continue this thread... but one last time... I think we are headed in some good directions with some of this tech...

[cAPSLOCK]

Amazingly annoying oscillations recently (this is 15m candles)



I am wondering if maybe the Exec Order on the horizon is causing some of these dogfights...  hmm.

[Paashaas]

https://twitter.com/Tether_to/status/1495709553010397185

[d_eddie]

Bob, i hope this isn't the last time you go down this rabbit hole!

It won't be. Plan to revisit in at least another 18 months.

You better!!!  You ended up with almost 0.15 of my BTC!

Which really just increased my incoming liquidity a significant portion on both nodes!  So it is all good! I am just messing.  In fact this was one of the realizations that helped me over the hump i think made you frustrated.

Individual channel balance is ONE thing... but overall NODE balance is another, and arguably more important.  Stagnant channels are what I have begun to look at with the horse eye... but on the other hand they are not really HURTING anything.  And I have had channels about the size of ours chronically end up on one side of the string, and then BOOM sweep back over on their own accord...

Anyway... I will keep looking at channel management over the next 18 months with a current eye to just letting the node manage itself for a while.  And I will let you know what I learn in 18m or whenever!

I'm following the discussion from the sidelines while I wait for the gear to wet my toes.
Just a suggestion: adding a tag that can be useful for searches, please? Bob's #LNMETA is perfect.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation