Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

I don't believe the Craig S Wrong guy for one second.

No one who spends years "studying" a hoax (religion) could ever invent something as useful as Bitcoin.

Seems he has made a career out of scams.

I bet the telephone scam asshole cunts in India have photos of Craig S Wrong on the wall and pray to him every day.

I don't like to study those dweebs too much - so in that regard, I don't know your reference to Craig studying a hoax (religion).  What's the referent in regards to this point?  Maybe I have heard it before, but forgot?  

Sometimes specifics are helpful, just so folks who are not part of the "in" crowd get some senses of what is (are) the discussion point(s).

Code:

~/Documents$ wc -w ./jjg2.txt 
2789 ./jjg1.txt

I have seen these kinds of references before.  Anyone care to explain?   I have missed some really basic things in the past, so I know that sometimes there are references.. like an over the head joke that are just outside of my lil world...   It seems to be a comparison of JJG1 and JJG2, no?

I will concede that (from time to time.. maybe once or twice) I am not the most likable person in the world, and sure maybe you don't want me to know the secret .. hahahahaha.. and sure it is not really that big of a deal to me.. even though it has been making me a wee tiny bit curious.. since i have seen it a few times (and it has some variations of my name contained therein), and I am pretty sure that I am not the only one who doesn't know what it means.  Am I supposed to know?  Am I not supposed to know?

I kind of feel like this:


It would be MOAR worser, if I were wearing speedos out there in the cold.

Usual WO game.
Where I am: level easy.
Where am I headed to?

You be called AWOL.

Get the fuck back, and keep up with your threads!!!!!

No more funzies for uie-pooie!!!!



I am serious.

 































Hope that my feigning of seriousness did not scare you too badly, fillippone (as fillippone rushes back home to his computer to update all of his outstanding threads)










 



I have been wanting to post in the thread:
Micheal Salyor decalogue for a 10x Bitcoin Appreciation

However, I have been waiting for someone else to post in order that a proper thread update notice will go out.. which will not happen if I edit my post.. I suppose I could break forum rules and just post two posts in row. .and suffer from having them merged?

More or less what I was going to say is that sometimes I consider Max Keiser to be too much of a joker (showman), but he made quite a few pretty good responses (criticisms ) of Saylor's 10 points.  He went over them one by one with Pomp.

The Pomp Podcast: #1017 Max Keiser On Helping A Nation Build On The Bitcoin Standard

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[death_wish]

“Get Rich Quick” with “the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme!”

Obviously the meltdown of all the DeFi nonsense is going to take a while to be resolved.  [...]

The one thing that I see good in all this smouldering garbage is even the average person is going to begin to see that there is a difference between Bitcoin and everything else.

2010: Bitcoin is magical internet money that geeks play with and it's a ponzi.

The strawman that you dismiss is actually correct.  For example, in 2011, theymos, this forum’s administrator, was overtly advertising a Ponzi in his signature:

Signature:
Did you miss the Bitcoin gold rush? Is Bitcoin not the money machine you'd hoped? You can still Get Rich Quick with fxnet, the Bitcoin Ponzi scheme!

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

I have archives of the old fxnet thread.  It is quite a read.  I’ll keep this brief for now.  I don’t blame theymos too much, because he was literally a teenager—not revealing dox here; he chose to reveal his own age on his forum profile page, as seen in the above-linked archive.  Youthful foolishness, no doubt.  Although I have never promoted anything scammy like that, I myself did some very foolish things when I was a teenager; I am lucky that they are not available in the Internet’s permanent memory.

But it is significant:  The adventuresome kids and the greedy retards in early Bitcoin were openly doing a Ponzi, which they openly called a “Bitcoin Ponzi scheme”.  Quote-unquote.

That same year, in that same cultural atmosphere, amidst numerous giant scams much worse than that kids’-game toy-money Ponzi, pirateat40 got started with the single most enormous scam that Bitcoinland has ever seen within its notional borders.

Celsius is Pirate 2.0

[...long post; read it carefully, if you know what’s good for you...]

Smells like a classical HYIP scam.

I apologize to defi for comparing it to pirateat40.  Celsius Network is the proper comparison to pirateat40.  The worst shitcoin Ponzis in defi look innocent by comparison.

In Bitcoin, the adults in the room stepped up and built companies like Blockstream.  This is yet another reason for my respect for Blockstream.  If mature, serious-minded people had not been building legitimate, respectable businesses, then Bitcoin would have remained a garbage heap of Ponzis and HYIP scams.  The garbage heap that it was—worse than defi today!  Blockstream was founded by OG cypherpunks who also understand legitimate business—an important combination.  There were many others good ones, of course; but I think that Blockstream is symbolic of “how grown-ups do Bitcoin”.


According to your 2011 account registration date, cAPSLOCK, you should know all of this from your own memory.  Why do you try to cover up the past?  So that you can take a holier-than-thou attitude towards concepts that are now in their practical infancy, just as Bitcoin was still in its infancy in 2011?  To try to protect your own investments by hurling broad-brush insults at anything you may perceive as competition?  Why do that, instead of letting Bitcoin stand on its merits?

You should know better, personally.  By the time that JayJuanGee (sorry, Jay, you have said when you got in)—or for that matter, by the time that conceited, Coinbase-defending n00b Torque discovered Bitcoin, most of the worst Ponzis and other high-yield investment scams had either condignly imploded into bankruptcy, or been forcibly cleaned up, or been relegated to the criminal underworld where they properly belong.  Though they both suffered at least the immediate fallout of Gox stupidity to all Bitcoinland, regardless of whether any particular individual got Goxed.

Of course, by then, the price of BTC had risen by 10x–100x–1000x or more, depending on where you draw your points of comparison.  BTC was dirt cheap, when when it was being used as toy money and/or an instrument for open, overt, brazen scams.  If you invested then, you took the extremely high risk that that may never change.

2012: Bitcoin went up!  I bought in for A dollar and sold for  $50!  I am a genius to have cashed out of that ponzi.

Your snark shows your doublethink and selective memory about even such an infamous meltdown as pirateat40.  Never mind the obscure chicanery that I quoted above.  Bitcoin was still riddled with Ponzis and High Yield Investment scams in 2012.  Only a visionary with extreme risk tolerance would have taken any significant financial risk on it then.

2020: DeFi!  THIS is the future... We all knew smart contracts would be useful!  Maybe this is how?

I see some great concepts in defi.  Permissionless no-KYC exchanges!  Decentralized quasi-banking!  Decentralized, trustless derivatives—perps, options, maybe someday dated futures!  This list could be continued at length...  All with Tether as a less-painful proxy for when it’s lamentably necessary to deal with dollars!

In defi, I have access to an anonymous, permissionless, no-shotgun-risk exchange with much of the functionality of Binance—already most of the basic functionality, catching up and improving day by day.  (Not talking about Uniswap idiocy here.  The latest and greatest stuff.)  If, instead, you want me to kneel, ask permission, and submit KYC to a CEX, then I will tell you point-blank to fork off and go to hell with your hypocrisy.  I came to Bitcoin to Be My Own Bank, NOT to jump through hoops like a trained animal for an uninsured, more or less scammy quasi-bank that has the worst of all worlds.

Needless to say, defi needs a cleanup.  The “Yield Farming” nonsense and moonboy Ponzi shitcoins are trash—but not as trashy as pirateat40, as I noted in the above quote.

2021: NFTs!  ICOs with even LESS utility!  (also possibly the worlds most complex troll)

NFTs are a good technology being abused for >99% trash, instead of the use cases where they would make sense.^*  Not unlike early Bitcoin.  Notice the refrain?

^* For one illustrative example, merely to establish the threshold credibility of the idea:  I think that NFTs will someday revolutionize the recording of real property deeds and chains of title.  Real-world real property, not low-grade cartoons of bored apes.  Anyone who has real-life experience with homeownership or other real estate will see the benefit of taking the public records out of the current inefficient systems, and cryptographically authenticating them on a blockchain.


By the way, cAPSLOCK:  When Richy_T civilly disagreed with me based on his outdated information about Blockstream Satellite, and I corrected him, he kinda-sorta acknowledged his mistake; and he continued with a constructive discussion.  Why do you dodge the factual correction of your very rude misinformation?

ZCASH is a fucking trusted setup

Your are ill-informed.  The trusted setup is dead.  Gone with Halo2.  Zcash’s Orchard shielded value pool, activated on mainnet in May 2022, has no trusted setup!

That is one of several major reasons why I declare the technology now “mature”:  No more trusted setup.  I put up with the trusted setup in Zcash myself, from its beginning until 2022; but I disliked it.  I would not want to bring it to Bitcoin.  The Zcash team also disliked it—actually, they hated it!  Therefore, they spent years working on improved cryptography to get rid of it forever.

You also have not answered my point about a “dev tax”.  cAPSLOCK, you hate the idea of a “dev tax”; and you insult altcoins that have a “dev tax”.  So, over all these years that you have enjoyed Bitcoin, have you donated any nontrivial amounts to support Bitcoin Core development?  Developers need to be paid somehow.  I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

[JayJuanGee]

That innocent loking LUNA man will get destroyed now. He is enjoying a comfortable life, still,  as shit coin owner this will be the first time a hacker group destroys his life, money and Bitcoin holdings. I am loving it. 

Link or it didn't happen.

 

Don't you think that I know??

No I don't. You do now.

It is essential and important to often use specific out of place and out of order words to trigger people.  Like you.    

SHirley UIEpoop-ster is a wannabe a pro-wanna at artzie ^fart of goobbLedy_-ggoo.

[Hueristic]

By the way, cAPSLOCK:  When Richy_T civilly disagreed with me based on his outdated information about Blockstream Satellite, and I corrected him, he kinda-sorta acknowledged his mistake; and he continued with a constructive discussion.  Why do you dodge the factual correction of your very rude misinformation?

ZCASH is a fucking trusted setup

Your are ill-informed.  The trusted setup is dead.  Gone with Halo2.  Zcash’s Orchard shielded value pool, activated on mainnet in May 2022, has no trusted setup!

That is one of several major reasons why I declare the technology now “mature”:  No more trusted setup.  I put up with the trusted setup in Zcash myself, from its beginning until 2022; but I disliked it.  I would not want to bring it to Bitcoin.  The Zcash team also disliked it—actually, they hated it!  Therefore, they spent years working on improved cryptography to get rid of it forever.

You also have not answered my point about a “dev tax”.  cAPSLOCK, you hate the idea of a “dev tax”; and you insult altcoins that have a “dev tax”.  So, over all these years that you have enjoyed Bitcoin, have you donated any nontrivial amounts to support Bitcoin Core development?  Developers need to be paid somehow.  I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

There are many reasons Zcrap is not discussed here, not the least of which is respect for the WO.

If you want to shill it them start a thread in the appropriate section.

Who knows maybe you will make a convert or two if you do it appropriately.

I haven't even bothered to read your arguments about it as it is about as OFF TOPIC as it gets in the thread and is a complete SCAM in my view.

[death_wish]

By the way, cAPSLOCK:  When Richy_T civilly disagreed with me based on his outdated information about Blockstream Satellite, and I corrected him, he kinda-sorta acknowledged his mistake; and he continued with a constructive discussion.  Why do you dodge the factual correction of your very rude misinformation?

ZCASH is a fucking trusted setup

Your are ill-informed.  The trusted setup is dead.  Gone with Halo2.  Zcash’s Orchard shielded value pool, activated on mainnet in May 2022, has no trusted setup!

That is one of several major reasons why I declare the technology now “mature”:  No more trusted setup.  I put up with the trusted setup in Zcash myself, from its beginning until 2022; but I disliked it.  I would not want to bring it to Bitcoin.  The Zcash team also disliked it—actually, they hated it!  Therefore, they spent years working on improved cryptography to get rid of it forever.

You also have not answered my point about a “dev tax”.  cAPSLOCK, you hate the idea of a “dev tax”; and you insult altcoins that have a “dev tax”.  So, over all these years that you have enjoyed Bitcoin, have you donated any nontrivial amounts to support Bitcoin Core development?  Developers need to be paid somehow.  I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

There are many reasons Zcrap is not discussed here, not the least of which is respect for the WO.

If you want to shill it them start a thread in the appropriate section.

Who knows maybe you will make a convert or two if you do it appropriately.

I haven't even bothered to read your arguments about it as it is about as OFF TOPIC as it gets in the thread and is a complete SCAM in my view.

If you had bothered to read my arguments about it, then you would know that I was not shilling for Zcash.  Rather, I am discussing my desire to bring zero-knowledge proof privacy to Bitcoin—a goal which would make Zcash obsolete, thus not a great way to shill for them!

The technology was originally conceived for Bitcoin.  Satoshi wished for zero-knowledge proofs.  The Zerocoin project was a concept for Bitcoin.  The original Zerocash paper presented a design for Bitcoin, before it was eventually turned into the Zcash altcoin.  I have linked and/or quoted relevant history here, in the posts that you did not bother to read.

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Edit:  Extra highlighting added in internal quote.  I was talking about Bitcoin.

[Hueristic]

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Just equating Zero Knowledge Proofs to zcrap here is a disingenuous argument, in your continual context you act as though Zcrap led the way when in fact ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm.

With that being said there is ZERO reason to bring up that shitcoin when trying to discuss ZKP.

[modrobert]

https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa

For a signature, or to “move his stash” as you said?  The Genesis coinbase itself can’t be moved; it is not sent to that address, but rather, in P2PK to a public key that people convert to that P2PKH address as an anachronism.

18.53375545 BTC (as of writing) from that address can be moved, if you have the wallet (private key) of Satoshi.

The correct (movable) amount is listed by Block Stream Explorer (note how the 50 BTC mining reward transaction is not listed here for the same address):
https://blockstream.info/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa

[death_wish]

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Just equating Zero Knowledge Proofs to zcrap here is a disingenuous argument, in your continual context you act as though Zcrap led the way when in fact ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm.

With that being said there is ZERO reason to bring up that shitcoin when trying to discuss ZKP.

Pretending that Zcash doesn’t have the best and only yet-seen practical way to apply ZKP here is a disingenuous argument.  Especially since I want to copy their open-source technology—research and development of which was paid for by their “dev tax”.  (Thanks.)

There does not exist any other decentralized privacy solution that reveals zero information.  In one of the posts that you said you did not bother to read, I explained why.

All other existing privacy solutions either are copies of Zcash, or are centralized (with blind signatures, as Digicash), or rely on decoy obfuscation of leaked information to try to cover up the trail of transactions (Monero mixins).  (Or are ridiculous outright scams, such DASH.  Or rely on trusted hardware enclaves, like some new shitcoins—literally “Intel inside!”)  Monero (or Blockstream’s Liquid) technically use “zero-knowledge proofs” to keep transaction amounts confidential, but they are not overall “zero-knowledge”.  Your claim that “ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm” is hypertechnical hairsplitting to avoid an obvious point.

[a1 Hashrate LLC2022]

Just purchased more btc at 20.7k

Will buy more next week

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Hueristic]

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Just equating Zero Knowledge Proofs to zcrap here is a disingenuous argument, in your continual context you act as though Zcrap led the way when in fact ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm.

With that being said there is ZERO reason to bring up that shitcoin when trying to discuss ZKP.

Pretending that Zcash doesn’t have the best and only yet-seen practical way to apply ZKP here is a disingenuous argument.  Especially since I want to copy their open-source technology—research and development of which was paid for by their “dev tax”.  (Thanks.)

There does not exist any other decentralized privacy solution that reveals zero information.  In one of the posts that you said you did not bother to read, I explained why.

All other existing privacy solutions either are copies of Zcash, or are centralized (with blind signatures, as Digicash), or rely on decoy obfuscation of leaked information to try to cover up the trail of transactions (Monero mixins).  (Or are ridiculous outright scams, such DASH.  Or rely on trusted hardware enclaves, like some new shitcoins—literally “Intel inside!”)  Monero (or Blockstream’s Liquid) technically use “zero-knowledge proofs” to keep transaction amounts confidential, but they are not overall “zero-knowledge”.  Your claim that “ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm” is hypertechnical hairsplitting to avoid an obvious point.

[JayJuanGee]

@JJG...regarding holdings going up or down.

Current users is an unknown number because many have just coinbase, binance, etc accounts.
let's assume it is 100-300 mil or take an average of 200 mil.
It is much less than humans on earth by a factor of about 40X.

Therefore, it is inevitable that current holders would have to sell some btc to accommodate new users. Of course, it would occur not by edict, but naturally.

How much each current user "has" to sell (on average)?
My approximation: 21mil-2mil (still to mine, so we don't need to worry about those coins, newcomers can theoretically get all of them)=19mil coins already distributed.
19mil/7.84bil=0.0024 BTC
0.0024X40=0.097 btc

Therefore, I suggest that if you already bought or mined bitcoin and then sold at least roughly 0.1btc, it means that you already distributed enough btc for 40 users at the steady-state level (all that is needed for 40 accounts on average). Of course people could do extra, but selling 0.1btc (on average per current owner and over the last 13 years and probably the next 5-10) would do the trick of "pollination" of the newbies accounts.

This does not preclude periodically buying or mining more, of course.

The fun part is to take how much you sold already and then divide by 0.0024btc. That would equal the number of future average bitcoin accounts (of newbs) you have potentially seeded.

EDIT: Laslo "seeded" 4mil 167thou future average accounts by his 10K btc pizza buy. Such generosity!

I have some troubles understanding how your point relates very much to any of the various points that I had been making in recent times, and I think one of my major points had to do with why would anyone with an already decently large BTC stash have any kind of reasonable, practical or prudent motivation to continue to keep building his/her BTC size, and my vantage point really did not have much if anything to do with how much the selling behavior of such person(s) would be potentially good for the overall bitcoin eco-system - and even you seem to concede that the availability of coinz is all going to "naturally" work itself out in terms of coins being sold at whatever price BTC HODLers choose to release my lil precious..

....and for example if BTC prices ended up being $10million per coin, and we had not sold any and we did not have anything else in the whole world besides our 0.1 BTC that we had been saving and saving and saving, we may well be forced to shave off a wee bit of that if we happen to be hungry - because I doubt that food is going to become free.. and maybe even we might have some desires/needs for other stuff too?   and so yeah, if we really fucked up and Gresham lawed to the max by spending every other money or asset that we had, at some point, we might need to shave some off (ooh maybe we also maxed out our collateralized loans against BTC too. and if a payment is due and we don't got any other monies, it may well be better to shave off some lillie precious rather than lose a leg, no? loan sharks might not be no funzies if they not be getting their payments)..

In other words, you are not making bad points, but they seems to be directed thematically different from my own potentially related previous talking points.    

Hey Bros, i'm in a hurry, so here's that promised photo from NGC7000 (North America Nebula). Seond try, because my lens fogged in the humid air of the night.
Details: 200mm lens on a H-Alpha modified DSLR, 100x25 sec frames for the stars, 20x60 sec frames for the nebula.

Hmm, yours fogged and you just had to try again and mine fogged and I ate a telephone pole. Maybe I should change hobbies.

Hm?

You are blaming some kinds of lens fogging for your M/c accident?

I spent quite a bit of time in my youth (and even into my middle age driving motorcycles - not so much recently, but not really opposed to the idea. and surely in some locations, driving MC/scooters can be quite practical, convenient and surely fun).. .when I was really young, fuck I was a risk taker and overall just have to say that there was some luck to get through that period without any major life-diminishing encounters with either moving or stationary objects.

By the way, I know about lenses fogging too, so I would not even have had been questioning your rendition of blame (at least in part).  

I recall that frequently I would drive with my helmet visor up (especially at night.. and part of the reason did have to do with some of the fogging that would happen if I put it down), and I would just use the plastic windshield on the motorcycle as a means to block the vast majority of the road wind, and I was on a somewhat country highway and going about 50mph/80kmh.. and in some miraculous kind of a way, some kind of bug ended up hitting me between the eyes, very close to my right eye, and did not even hit the eye, but that impact was so painful and debilitating to my eyesight.  It was like all of a sudden going blind but still being able to force a wee bit of eyesight (but not easy because both eyes were tearing and really wanting to close).. I was so fucking lucky that I was able to stop. .and in a kind of almost blind state in the middle of nowhere, and I did not even fall of the motorcycle.. another lucky thing that I was barely able to do and to muster enough muscle movement to accomplish.

Once I stopped, I did recover within about 5-10 minutes and I was even able to open both eyes and stop them from continuing to tear.  Luck sometimes.. and surely I did not stop riding motorcycle from that, and I did not even stop putting my visor up either, but it only happened once in my many thousands of hours of overall ride time.

[death_wish]

https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa

For a signature, or to “move his stash” as you said?  The Genesis coinbase itself can’t be moved; it is not sent to that address, but rather, in P2PK to a public key that people convert to that P2PKH address as an anachronism.

18.53375545 BTC (as of writing) from that address can be moved, if you have the wallet (private key) of Satoshi.

The correct (movable) amount is listed by Block Stream Explorer (note how the 50 BTC mining reward transaction is not listed here for the same address):
https://blockstream.info/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa

I almost said as much, but then cut it as an unnecessary tangent.  I try to prevent my posts from being too long.

If I know that people are converting the Genesis coinbase P2PK key to a P2PKH address (an arcane detail that few realize), I obviously know that idiots have been sending money there, and how much of it, and that it can be moved.  Should I now embark on the long tangent I had in mind about why sending money there is a bad idea?

The point from which I do not want to distract with this irrelevant tangent:  Moving money around not the right way to ask Satoshi to prove his identity.  signmessage exists, and it works.  Satoshi has a PGP key; I linked to this forum’s copy of it, and I provided the fingerprint.  The threshold test for any Satoshi claimant is to sign an appropriate message with a known Satoshi key.

[Hueristic]

Hm?

You are blaming some kinds of lens fogging for your M/c accident?

I spent quite a bit of time in my youth (and even into my middle age driving motorcycles - not so much recently, but not really opposed to the idea. and surely in some locations, driving MC/scooters can be quite practical, convenient and surely fun).. .when I was really young, fuck I was a risk taker and overall just have to say that there was some luck to get through that period without any major life-diminishing encounters with either moving or stationary objects.

By the way, I know about lenses fogging too, so I would not even have had been questioning your rendition of blame (at least in part).  

I recall that frequently I would drive with my helmet visor up (especially at night.. and part of the reason did have to do with some of the fogging that would happen if I put it down), and I would just use the plastic windshield on the motorcycle as a means to block the vast majority of the road wind, and I was on a somewhat country highway and going about 50mph/80kmh.. and in some miraculous kind of a way, some kind of bug ended up hitting me between the eyes, very close to my right eye, and did not even hit the eye, but that impact was so painful and debilitating to my eyesight.  It was like all of a sudden going blind but still being able to force a wee bit of eyesight (but not easy because both eyes were tearing and really wanting to close).. I was so fucking lucky that I was able to stop. .and in a kind of almost blind state in the middle of nowhere, and I did not even fall of the motorcycle.. another lucky thing that I was barely able to do and to muster enough muscle movement to accomplish.

Once I stopped, I did recover within about 5-10 minutes and I was even able to open both eyes and stop them from continuing to tear.  Luck sometimes.. and surely I did not stop riding motorcycle from that, and I did not even stop putting my visor up either, but it only happened once in my many thousands of hours of overall ride time.

Shit, thought I had mentioned that, only recently have gotten the pain management under control enough o make coherent thoughts so I'll reiterate here.

I was leaving the Casino ~2am following 2 SUV's around a bend when we hit a fog bank and I'm not completely sure if the visor fogged up as well as it was so instant but I went to zero visibility in a corner and had nothing to gauge where I was heading besides the taillights of the vehicle directly in front of me. I pulled in the clutch and started to brake as quickly as possible while following the taillights in front of me only to have the SUV Brake hard and veer off to the left only to notice that there was grass under the SUV instead of pavement. As I tried to follow the bike slid out from under me on the wet grass and mud not unlike a hydroplaning effect and while the bike slid off to the side into a chain link fence I hit the ground and rolled into a telephone pole. We were doing about 45 Mph.

[Biodom]

Hm?

You are blaming some kinds of lens fogging for your M/c accident?

I spent quite a bit of time in my youth (and even into my middle age driving motorcycles - not so much recently, but not really opposed to the idea. and surely in some locations, driving MC/scooters can be quite practical, convenient and surely fun).. .when I was really young, fuck I was a risk taker and overall just have to say that there was some luck to get through that period without any major life-diminishing encounters with either moving or stationary objects.

By the way, I know about lenses fogging too, so I would not even have had been questioning your rendition of blame (at least in part).  

I recall that frequently I would drive with my helmet visor up (especially at night.. and part of the reason did have to do with some of the fogging that would happen if I put it down), and I would just use the plastic windshield on the motorcycle as a means to block the vast majority of the road wind, and I was on a somewhat country highway and going about 50mph/80kmh.. and in some miraculous kind of a way, some kind of bug ended up hitting me between the eyes, very close to my right eye, and did not even hit the eye, but that impact was so painful and debilitating to my eyesight.  It was like all of a sudden going blind but still being able to force a wee bit of eyesight (but not easy because both eyes were tearing and really wanting to close).. I was so fucking lucky that I was able to stop. .and in a kind of almost blind state in the middle of nowhere, and I did not even fall of the motorcycle.. another lucky thing that I was barely able to do and to muster enough muscle movement to accomplish.

Once I stopped, I did recover within about 5-10 minutes and I was even able to open both eyes and stop them from continuing to tear.  Luck sometimes.. and surely I did not stop riding motorcycle from that, and I did not even stop putting my visor up either, but it only happened once in my many thousands of hours of overall ride time.

Shit, thought I had mentioned that, only recently have gotten the pain management under control enough o make coherent thoughts so I'll reiterate here.

I was leaving the Casino ~2am following 2 SUV's around a bend when we hit a fog bank and I'm not completely sure if the visor fogged up as well as it was so instant but I went to zero visibility in a corner and had nothing to gauge where I was heading besides the taillights of the vehicle directly in front of me. I pulled in the clutch and started to brake as quickly as possible while following the taillights in front of me only to have the SUV Brake hard and veer off to the left only to notice that there was grass under the SUV instead of pavement. As I tried to follow the bike slid out from under me on the wet grass and mud not unlike a hydroplaning effect and while the bike slid off to the side into a chain link fence I hit the ground and rolled into a telephone pole. We were doing about 45 Mph.

Sounds awful..and just painkillers are not the worst outcome, perhaps, all things considered.

[JayJuanGee]

You should know better, personally.  By the time that JayJuanGee (sorry, Jay, you have said when you got in)—or for that matter, by the time that conceited, Coinbase-defending n00b Torque discovered Bitcoin, most of the worst Ponzis and other high-yield investment scams had either condignly imploded into bankruptcy, or been forcibly cleaned up, or been relegated to the criminal underworld where they properly belong.  Though they both suffered at least the immediate fallout of Gox stupidity to all Bitcoinland, regardless of whether any particular individual got Goxed.

I understand that you are being both a bit tongue and cheek, but you are also attempting to suggest that none of us are completely pure, and surely I have no problems with that, but even when you might be trying to play off of ongoing misconceptions, you still seem to be playing with fire in the various ways that you are poking fun.

On a personal basis, I know that negative brushing of bitcoin existed at the time that I got in, and also that a lot of the negative brushing pre-dated me, and some of t had factual bases to it, too.

Sometimes there was jest too, so it's going to be difficult to impute blameworthy type knowledge - even to folks who might have gotten involved in one way or another with individuals of questionable characters - but just like you were suggesting the other day, sometimes we still might need to figure out if some people might have characters less pure than they proclaim based on some of their prior involvement in certain kinds of businesses or even certain positions that they took in various public forums.

One of the risks for me has been that I have written a quite a few words, over the years, believe it or not.. and yeah, we live in a much more complicated world when we have the various combination choices in regards to various online identities and real life identities and the extent to which those sometimes might get connected, and ev en how much do we need to be traceable if we are just spouting out information on the interwebs versus if we might be wanting to sell a good or service to someone.. a tangible or an intangible?

Surely there has been more and more thoughts in relationship to how internet identities might be connected in somewhat anonymous ways, and surely some folks are going to want to start over if they did some illegal or scammy shit, so it might not alway be clear if there might be work arounds for some of the new systems that are being proposed and developed.
 

2012: Bitcoin went up!  I bought in for A dollar and sold for  $50!  I am a genius to have cashed out of that ponzi.

Your snark shows your doublethink and selective memory about even such an infamous meltdown as pirateat40.  Never mind the obscure chicanery that I quoted above.  Bitcoin was still riddled with Ponzis and High Yield Investment scams in 2012.  Only a visionary with extreme risk tolerance would have taken any significant financial risk on it then.

Seems to me that people can choose however they like to spin the past, and we are not always going to want to spin matters in the same way that you do, which surely might provide value if there are different ways of spinning similar facts. .. and your contrary way of spinning the matter, D_W, which you seem to be implying is more true, shows that it is quite doubtful that anyone would have necessarily have been imputed with the knowledge that you are proclaiming to be emblematic of the referenced (in this case 2012) period.

I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

Fuck shitcoins and your seemingly holier than thou attempts to inject their discussion in this thread as if the various compare and contrast cost/benefits are as very relevant at all to our discussion in these here parts as you are trying to make them out to be through your implicit denigration of our lil precious too..

Remember.. overall we are not claiming to be a bunch of smarties here, but you seem to want to get us into various in the weeds discussion of bitcoin.. but instead why not take those kinds of promotions about how your various shitcoins and their funding is wonderful to some other thread where you are pumping those kinds of seemingly nuanced / nonsense compare contrast talking points, no?

Recall the default mode in this here thread seems to be "fuck shitcoins, ain't nobody got time for that."  "Take your nuanced criticizing of king daddy pumping of dee shitcoins bullshit to some udder parts."

[Hueristic]

Shit, thought I had mentioned that, only recently have gotten the pain management under control enough o make coherent thoughts so I'll reiterate here.

I was leaving the Casino ~2am following 2 SUV's around a bend when we hit a fog bank and I'm not completely sure if the visor fogged up as well as it was so instant but I went to zero visibility in a corner and had nothing to gauge where I was heading besides the taillights of the vehicle directly in front of me. I pulled in the clutch and started to brake as quickly as possible while following the taillights in front of me only to have the SUV Brake hard and veer off to the left only to notice that there was grass under the SUV instead of pavement. As I tried to follow the bike slid out from under me on the wet grass and mud not unlike a hydroplaning effect and while the bike slid off to the side into a chain link fence I hit the ground and rolled into a telephone pole. We were doing about 45 Mph.

Sounds awful..and just painkillers are not the worst outcome, perhaps, all things considered.

Yeah, The Doc said I was pretty lucky all the bones are lined up so they didn't have to pin them but I'm pretty sure thats because I got up and aligned them while leaning on the dude that pulled over. LOL

Funny thing is the guy who finally stopped ended up being someone I played against all night.

*Also they were giving me fentanol injections so I asked the doc if he was trying to OD me?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

By the way, cAPSLOCK:  When Richy_T civilly disagreed with me based on his outdated information about Blockstream Satellite, and I corrected him, he kinda-sorta acknowledged his mistake; and he continued with a constructive discussion.  Why do you dodge the factual correction of your very rude misinformation?

ZCASH is a fucking trusted setup

Your are ill-informed.  The trusted setup is dead.  Gone with Halo2.  Zcash’s Orchard shielded value pool, activated on mainnet in May 2022, has no trusted setup!

That is one of several major reasons why I declare the technology now “mature”:  No more trusted setup.  I put up with the trusted setup in Zcash myself, from its beginning until 2022; but I disliked it.  I would not want to bring it to Bitcoin.  The Zcash team also disliked it—actually, they hated it!  Therefore, they spent years working on improved cryptography to get rid of it forever.

You also have not answered my point about a “dev tax”.  cAPSLOCK, you hate the idea of a “dev tax”; and you insult altcoins that have a “dev tax”.  So, over all these years that you have enjoyed Bitcoin, have you donated any nontrivial amounts to support Bitcoin Core development?  Developers need to be paid somehow.  I know that some big BTC HODLers are very good about this; they tend not to be the ones who sneer at little altcoins for having a “dev tax”, for they understand that developers need to be paid somehow.

There are many reasons Zcrap is not discussed here, not the least of which is respect for the WO.

If you want to shill it them start a thread in the appropriate section.

Who knows maybe you will make a convert or two if you do it appropriately.

I haven't even bothered to read your arguments about it as it is about as OFF TOPIC as it gets in the thread and is a complete SCAM in my view.

If you had bothered to read my arguments about it, then you would know that I was not shilling for Zcash.  Rather, I am discussing my desire to bring zero-knowledge proof privacy to Bitcoin—a goal which would make Zcash obsolete, thus not a great way to shill for them!

The technology was originally conceived for Bitcoin.  Satoshi wished for zero-knowledge proofs.  The Zerocoin project was a concept for Bitcoin.  The original Zerocash paper presented a design for Bitcoin, before it was eventually turned into the Zcash altcoin.  I have linked and/or quoted relevant history here, in the posts that you did not bother to read.

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Edit:  Extra highlighting added in internal quote.  I was talking about Bitcoin.

My impression might not be exactly the same as Hueristic, but still in the ballpark of what the fuck you bringing that shit here.

This is not a technical thread, but you want to bombard the thread with technical mumbo-jumbo, and if you want to fix (improve) bitcoin in various ways work on your BIP and/or partner up with some like-minded and complementary dweeb like ur lil selfie, and set forth the BIP..

If there is a BIP, you can still reference it here.

Surely, in the end, you have the right to post whatever the fuck you want here, including no need to self-censor like you mentioned, but it seems like you are striving to appeal to the wrong audience in these here parts.. we are better at fart jokes and things like that... looking at you    @sirazimuth

 

As things now stand, it is practically impossible to discuss zero-knowledge proofs for Bitcoin without discussing the technologies and the real-world experiences from the premier ZK proof privacy altcoin.  I will not self-censor to avoid knee-jerk reactions:  That would prevent me from discussing my longtime dream of having ZK proof privacy in Bitcoin.  I have been wanting that since around 2013, according to my recollection of when I first heard of Zerocoin.

Just equating Zero Knowledge Proofs to zcrap here is a disingenuous argument, in your continual context you act as though Zcrap led the way when in fact ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm.

With that being said there is ZERO reason to bring up that shitcoin when trying to discuss ZKP.

Pretending that Zcash doesn’t have the best and only yet-seen practical way to apply ZKP here is a disingenuous argument.  Especially since I want to copy their open-source technology—research and development of which was paid for by their “dev tax”.  (Thanks.)

Fuck shitcoins and their pumpenings in these here parts.

There does not exist any other decentralized privacy solution that reveals zero information.  In one of the posts that you said you did not bother to read, I explained why.

All other existing privacy solutions either are copies of Zcash, or are centralized (with blind signatures, as Digicash), or rely on decoy obfuscation of leaked information to try to cover up the trail of transactions (Monero mixins).  (Or are ridiculous outright scams, such DASH.  Or rely on trusted hardware enclaves, like some new shitcoins—literally “Intel inside!”)  Monero (or Blockstream’s Liquid) technically use “zero-knowledge proofs” to keep transaction amounts confidential, but they are not overall “zero-knowledge”.  Your claim that “ZKP has been used forever and it is essential to any privacy algorithm” is hypertechnical hairsplitting to avoid an obvious point.

Even if you are correct... who fucking cares?

Do you have a fart joke?  or a cladily dressed chica?  chico for bbbbbbaaaawwwbbbb.. ?

in udder wurds..

ain't nobody got time for comparison contrasts regarding which shitcoin might be less shitty in terms of some abstract presentations that ONLY fewer than 1 (if that's possible) out of 100 of us will likely understand 1/4 of what you be saying anyhow.  Not that very many of us (royal perhaps?) even understand 1/2 of what you be saying when you are talking about somewhat "normal" and potentially within our grasps topics.