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Question: Price Target for Nov. 30, 2024:
<$75K - 2 (3.1%)
$75K to $80K - 1 (1.6%)
$80K to $85K - 2 (3.1%)
$85K to $90K - 7 (10.9%)
$90K to $95K - 12 (18.8%)
$95K to $100K - 11 (17.2%)
>$100K - 29 (45.3%)
Total Voters: 64

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26494463 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
xhomerx10
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December 21, 2022, 10:42:47 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Alright.

Cryptotourist dies with this post - because of reasons.

It’s been brewing in my head since earlier this year, but only now getting round to it.
I will lock this account with a random password that I won’t be able to recreate.
Of course the email reset option will remain for now, but if this account ever posts again in the future, I urge anyone with two brain cells to ask for confirmation with the fingerprint on the profile AND the stacked Bitcoin address.
Moderators can also ban it for all I care. [kindly consider this post a request]

It’s been a real pleasure posting amongst you guys n girls.
Peace out.

Sunset

 Wait!  What do you mean stacked address?!  How big of a stack?!  What do we ask about it??  AWww... damn!  It's too late; he's gone.  We may never know.
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December 21, 2022, 11:01:16 PM


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December 21, 2022, 11:12:36 PM
Merited by fillippone (2)

This year may be a bit of a rough year for those who are still holding cryptocurrencies and hoping for a price increase to occur. Because in fact what has happened in the last 12 months or to be precise this year for cryptocurrencies is a decline in prices in the market. It's really unfortunate for crypto lovers, but it's not to be regretted because everyone needs to increase their level of patience in dealing with situations like now.



The year 2022 is coming to an end and over the past 12 months, the crypto economy has lost around $1.486 trillion in value against the US dollar. As of December 20, 2021, bitcoin was trading for $46,406 and has lost more than 63% of value this year. Roughly 365 days ago on December 20, 2021, the crypto economy was worth a lot more than it is today. 12 months of statistics show that $1.486 trillion has been removed from the crypto economy since that day, as it fell from $2.334 trillion to the December 20, 2022 value of $848 billion.
Source: https://news.bitcoin.com/2022s-market-review-crypto-economy-loses-1-4t-top-10-token-knockouts-terras-collapse/
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December 21, 2022, 11:54:38 PM

....we are human, so we’re bound to make mistakes, regardless of our intentions.

Exactly.  Some "we-wee"s make more mistakes than other "we-wee"s.

Yes... another way of suggesting that one of us suffers from delusions of grandeur.

Let’s put that to the test, shall we?

"Let's" not and say that we did.

Hashrate follows price.  Not the other way around.
I expected nothing less of your handler.
Your sponsor gawds [AKA Bitcoin whales], cannot have the average Joe thinking otherwise.

Uie-pooie can think whatevers yous would likie to thinkie, even if it is retarded.

No skin off my back.

Sorry that I have to be the one to inform you of such news.
No worries, it’s not news, it’s utter bullshit.

Ok.  Do what you like then.  Think what you like.  Last time I checked, its a free country...

wait...


Well, if you are looking at the matter from the wrong direction, then it is going to seem confusing...
I’ll look in any direction I damn well like, okay?
You do you, and keep staring at the cave.

That's right.. you are free to choose your directions..

that's right.


that's riiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggght.

and yeah, even though hashrate follows price, the hashrate can get ahead of the matter, and there are other games going on with hashrate too.. so in the end hashrate is only one of the factors, anyhow.
Repeating yourself does not work on me, you should know that by now.

Ok.  We've exhausted the topic.  I was merely responding to uie-pooie..

Gosh..


bite my head off.

BTC price is affected by all kinds of matters, and the miners are playing their own little games.. and for sure, a lot of miners had a very good year on 2021, so they are kind of paying for that now, in terms of some of them overextended themselves and ended up gambling on the BTC price not going down as far as it did.. but that does not stop other miners (more efficient ones) from forcing out the less efficient ones.. including that some of the equipment that they bought went online during  a downward move in BTC price.
What a crack of diverting bullshit.
So what you’re essentially saying, is that the mining “ban” on China in the summer of 2021, did not affect the price.
Okay. Hahahahaha.

I did not say that, and I am not saying that.  The China mining ban is 2021 is an interesting point though in regards to a lot of bitcoin-related matters - but such "ban" did seems to temporarily affect the hashrate in a negative way with a near halvening of the hashrate that largely sprung back within about 4-6 months (and largely sprung back way more quickly than a lot of folks had expected).. .it also seemed to contribute towards already existing miners to have become extremely profitable and inspired a lot of new mining entrance - and perhaps overly leveraging.. and we see some of the fall out from that overleveraging and perhaps even overbuilding today.. ...and it seemed to inspire greater geographical diversity..  .. so yeah of course, BTC price was not unaffected by some of those matters.. but it would likely lead many folks to wrongedly assessments to attempt to hitch whatever various relationships of BTC price to hashrate during that period as if BTC prices were following hashrate.. but hey, believe whatevers you would like.. those are your choices.

There could be some relation in terms of purging out as many of the inefficient miners as possible.. but there are other things going on, so you are likely going to end up with wrong conclusions (just like Philipma) when you get too obsessed with putting too much weight into the wrong factors - such as ideas of hashrate affecting price.
If the internet were to go down tomorrow, resulting in miners not being able to mine, you’re saying that it would NOT affect the price.
Muahahahahaha, whatever.

Yes.. BTC price would be affected by the internet going down.

You are like the plato allegory of the cave dwellers in the cave watching shadows on the wall and striving to assigning significance to mumbo jumbo.
You - just don’t - go Greek on me, you’re not - in the slightest - qualified.

Aren't you Mr. Wonderful and such a genius too?

Go figure.

For a person that has been right on the scamdemic, since day one, don’t you think it’s an unfair quote?

Who cares whether you were right or not about the "scamdemic?"  For argument sake, let's assume that you were right about the "scamedemic from day one", as you put it.   You are trying to argue that if you happen to be right about one topic, then all of a sudden you are right (or an expert) on all topics.  That makes a lot of sense.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I read somewhere that ChatGPT has an IQ of around 80.
Of course I don’t abide with that opinion, and think that my dog is orders of magnitude smarter than you.

Is your dog friendly?  Or mean like you?

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Yes... you can buy the dip instead of DCA.
Gee, I’m glad we have your permission. Tongue

That was not a statement giving permission...   I retract all semblance of permission from that earlier statement, if any "permission" had previously existed therein.

Have you been following the 'vices of Cryptotourist?
It’s my obligation to tell you that you’re starting to see ghosts.
Understandable, but do snap out of it for the sake of others.

For the sake of which others?  Are you now speaking on behalf of readers of the WO?

Did Cryptotourist get another one of you?
We are all Cryptotourist.
LOL

- except "Cryptotourist."

“The greatest knowledge, is knowing how to remove ignorance”
Antisthenes


Get out of the cave people.

Now you are talking.  Wink
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December 22, 2022, 12:01:20 AM


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December 22, 2022, 12:26:58 AM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1)

Bitcoin update:
There is a high chance price moves back up to the 17500-17700 area then drop hard to 10k.
This move will be quick and could manipulate many traders and in the process price will print a double top pattern that could look like the one below.
https://ibb.co/89ghvr6
Source: https://twitter.com/profit8lue/status/1604606384913252352?t=wY5_WG9wq4yxLjJJrHwSXA&s=19

Would you like to bet with Gapachin about that?

I can't get over the fact that the last couple of months have been extremely stable for Bitcoin while traditional assets have been all over the place.  It seems like people would rather be holding BTC than the S&P 500 at the moment.  Even Elon Musk is saying on Twitter that smart people he knows are shorting the S&P 500 while he continues to hold his BTC.  If we do avert a recession and the Fed is successful with their 'soft landing' I think we will see the mother of all Bitcoin rallies.  I'm starting to see the perfect storm on the other side of the valley.
This means we are at the bottom now? Sorry JJG we are not going below 16k reevaluate your DCA...  

You must not understand DCA.

DCA in respect to BTC does not give any shits about short term prices - except perhaps retaining a presumption that in the long term 4-10 years or more (or whatever is your holding timeline) bitcoin is likely to have prices that are higher than they are today, so in that sense that it is likely to be a good investment and profitable in the long term.

Buying on the dip is another dynamic that can be used to supplement DCA.. but it is not DCA...  

Strict DCA does not concern itself with short-term price moves and also includes a kind of presumption that normies are not able to figure out short-term price moves, yet so long as the overall price trajectory of the asset (in this case bitcoin) is headed UPpity, then it is always advantageous to continue to buy at any price.. until perhaps reaching accumulation goals...  whether that is 1% to 25% of your investment portfolio or whatever other accumulation goals that you create for yourself based on your own individual financial and psychological circumstances.

Regarding the recession which analysts predicted is already upon us, but still bitcoin is showing consistency.

I think during recession people will be attracted to Bitcoin more compared to traditional S&P 500.

Bitcoin will prove itself a recession proof investment/asset Smiley

That part all seems to be true.  Bitcoin has historically outperformed all other asset classes, including but not limited to stocks - and there are no real signs that bitcoin's investment thesis is getting any weaker with the passage of time - and like you suggest, bitcoin's investment thesis is likely becoming stronger rather than weaker with the passage of time.

What else is needed in order to be convinced that it is good to figure out some kind of a personal allocation into bitcoin and to take measures to attempt to achieve such allocation goals?  And, yes with the passage of time, it is likely that the trend of more and more people finding out is going to continue and bitcoin's various network effects are going to continue to grow.. even if  there might be short term uncertainties and blips along the way.

Just got a [newsletter] email from Tradingview:
Quote
BITCOIN - Forming Reversal Pattern - Ending Diagonal
Bitcoin is forming a reversal pattern known as Ending Diagonal. Ending diagonals form in Wave 5 or in Wave C. This is one of the more reliable reversal pattern with easy confirmation. It is important to note that the 5th wave of the ending diagonal can sometimes fall short or even extend therefore it's important to wait for confirmation. Confirmation for this reversal pattern will be the break of the diagonal. Further confirmation will be a break above the completion of the 4th wave. - WickatorFX
[emphasis mine]
Holly Molly.

Well.  If you got that information in a newsletter, then it must be true.  No?

Alright.
Cryptotourist dies with this post - because of reasons.

It’s been brewing in my head since earlier this year, but only now getting round to it.
I will lock this account with a random password that I won’t be able to recreate.
Of course the email reset option will remain for now, but if this account ever posts again in the future, I urge anyone with two brain cells to ask for confirmation with the fingerprint on the profile AND the stacked Bitcoin address.
Moderators can also ban it for all I care. [kindly consider this post a request]

It’s been a real pleasure posting amongst you guys n girls.
Peace out.
Sunset

Well.  I guess, you won't be able to respond to my earlier responses... Kids these days.  In with a bang, out with a whimper.. They hardly have any staying power. .. must be all that soy that they are consuming.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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December 22, 2022, 12:59:24 AM
Merited by shahzadafzal (1)

DCA is a lazy method.

From all prior halvings and ATH here is a potential trading strategy:

1. ATH occurs at 1year-1.5 year after halving (in 2021 the double top was almost identical at ~1 year and 1.5 year).
2. Bitcoin bottoms occur after at least 80% decline from the ATH (happened 3 times, with just a slight decrease in % each time: 94,87, 84% decline).
The current cycle low was at about 77.5%.

Therefore, a "simple" trading strategy: sell at around 1-1.5 years after the halving (when prior exponent would start stalling). How to choose 1 year vs 1.5 year: sell when 30 day increase is at or more than 100% and we are around 1 year or 1.5 year interval post halving, then either buy a bunch at -75% or split into thirds and buy 1/3 at -70%, 1/3 at -75%, 1/3 at -80%. If the third point would not happen-buy something nice instead, like a car, vacation or a house (depending on your cap gains from the top). Don't chase.
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December 22, 2022, 01:01:16 AM


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December 22, 2022, 01:16:51 AM

BTCitcoin $16.9k<$21k in 31 Dec 2022
Bitcoin 20k plus Christmas Day December 31 Bitcoin price on this occasion will get
If we reach over 20 k this year it will be a christmas 🎄 miracle

That's true.   ONLY 9 days left in the year.. so the end of 2022 is coming upon us quickedly.


..........I urge anyone with two brain cells to ask for confirmation with the fingerprint on the profile AND the stacked Bitcoin address.
........
Wait!  What do you mean stacked address?!  How big of a stack?!  What do we ask about it??  AWww... damn!  It's too late; he's gone.  We may never know.

Hahahahaha.

Wait, wait, wait.. don't go.!!!!!!

oh?


too late.    Cry Cry Cry

Well that's o.k.  it was not that important anyhow.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

DCA is a lazy method.

Yes.  That's a feature.. not a bug.

From all prior halvings and ATH here is a potential trading strategy:

1. ATH occurs at 1year-1.5 year after halving (in 2021 the double top was almost identical at ~1 year and 1.5 year).
2. Bitcoin bottoms occur after at least 80% decline from the ATH (happened 3 times, with just a slight decrease in % each time: 94,87, 84% decline).
The current cycle low was at about 77.5%.

Therefore, a "simple" trading strategy: sell at around 1-1.5 years after the halving (when prior exponent would start stalling). How to choose 1 year vs 1.5 year: sell when 30 day increase is at or more than 100% and we are around 1 year or 1.5 year interval post halving, then either buy a bunch at -75% or split into thirds and buy 1/3 at -70%, 1/3 at -75%, 1/3 at -80%. If the third point would not happen-buy something nice instead, like a car, vacation or a house (depending on your cap gains from the top). Don't chase.

Do you even follow what you preach? 

Helrow?

You claim to never sell, and then you also describe some of your whimpy failures and refusals to sufficiently stack.

yeah, maybe you are quietly buying on dips.. but still.  I question if you even come close to practicing what you preach.. even if you might aspire to carry out what you are suggesting in the future.

Maybe I am being a bit rough on you?  perhaps?

I certainly attempt to follow much of what I describe, but surely sometimes each of us are talking about general principles in which we might not exactly follow on a personal level for each particular circumstance because actual price performance is ONLY one of several factors that we need to take into account: as you likely recognize and appreciate that Individual considerations include but are not limited to considering your cashflow, how much bitcoin you have already accumulated, your other investments, your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, timeline, risk tolerance, and your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.
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December 22, 2022, 01:35:44 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

@jjg..I discussed a potential future strategy, albeit if you back-test it to what happened before, you would see how successful it would have been. Duh!
I only had small sells here and there, that is true, but it does not not mean that I won't sell a larger % in the future (2023-2025).

Honestly, i was expecting bitcoin to moderate in this cycle and it did so on the upside (only 3.2X vs prior cycle's 17X between two ATHs), but NOT the downside (a smallish difference of -77.5% vs prior 84%). I know what was the reason: leverage, bad macro, etc., but still...

We shall see how the next cycle transpires...everybody seem to be confused with diametrically opposite opinions: anything from a deep freeze and flat btc to some exorbitant numbers.
Honestly, I am VERY surprised that the economy is able to perform quite well so far with rates being so high (and going higher).
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December 22, 2022, 03:34:39 AM

@jjg..I discussed a potential future strategy, albeit if you back-test it to what happened before, you would see how successful it would have been. Duh!
I only had small sells here and there, that is true, but it does not not mean that I won't sell a larger % in the future (2023-2025).

Yeah.. but you criticized DCA for being brainless - and suggesting that you have it all figured out how you could beat (and it turns out could have beat - because you are not applying your strategy in reality).

I have no problem with the employment of more advance strategies - but poo-pooing DCA seems quite problematic since in reality there are not very many folks who are able to beat a pure DCA strategy, and furthermore even if they do end up beating a pure DCA strategy, another question would be whether such beating is repeatable and furthermore even another question would be whether it was worth all the efforts to fuck around 10 hours a week trying to figure out these kinds of matters when the results might ONLY be small percentages higher than a strict DCA strategy - if they end up beating DCA rather than losing along the way.

Personally, I never followed a completely strict DCA strategy, so I am not even opposed to the ideas of supplementing DCA by attempting to buy on the dip, too, but I really find it problematic to employ selling strategies as means to acquire more BTC.. because those really tend to be losing strategies... but on the other hand, if you have been in bitcoin for a long enough time, your BTC portfolio is likely to be in profits, so losing strategies might just be a matter of forgoing profit opportunities rather than actual literally losing since selling at any BTC price happens to be profitable if your overall BTC holdings are in profits.. so anyone can look like a genius in those circumstances - especially if their strategies are not looked at more deeply in terms of their having had ended up selling too much BTC too soon while the BTC price was going up.

Honestly, i was expecting bitcoin to moderate in this cycle and it did so on the upside (only 3.2X vs prior cycle's 17X between two ATHs)

I don't disagree with your overall conclusion that the upside was not as great as previous cycles, but I do not agree with any measurement of the previous ATH as being reflective regarding how much upside that we actually got in this cycle. 

I am pretty sure that it would be reasonable to count anywhere between $4,200 and $8k-ish as our jumping off base for this last cycle, since between February 2018 and August 2020, the BTC price spent so much time within that $4,200 and $8k-ish price range.

Yeah, the top was not as high as previous cycles.

yeah, the top did not go as high as many of us expected.

But still... measuring from the 2017 top is hardly using a fair jumping off base in order that meaningful assessments can be made in the direction of either assessment of BTC fundamentals or attempting to employ more sophisticated BTC portfolio management strategies.

I doubt that you personally were acquiring too many BTC in the $12k to $20k price arena between late 2017 and late 2018... to the extent that you were acquiring any BTC since mid-2017 - and sure, even though I describe you as whimpy in your BTC acquisition, I do still expect that you are a buying on the dip kind of guy and you have bought some BTC since 2015...rather than just talking about such buying on the dip opportunities that we have even witnessed, especially since early 2018 but even more so since late 2018.... or even after the early-to-mid 2019 (subsequently characterized) fake out that took us to $13,880.

, but NOT the downside (a smallish difference of -77.5% vs prior 84%). I know what was the reason: leverage, bad macro, etc., but still...

I agree with you. The downside has been quite brutish and beyond expectations... and including higher than expected levels of fraud too..  but what are we going to do when any of us might NOT have realized how extensively some of the players were playing these systems.. including that even reputable bitcoin holders, such as GBTC are having their coins questioned, too...

and don't forget the froth of ethereum has not yet imploded... .and whether they can play their bullshit for another 4-year cycle or whatever without actually imploding might be surprising, too.. not that I like to talk about shitcoins or even suggest that shitcoins and shitty behaviors are driving king daddy.

We shall see how the next cycle transpires...everybody seem to be confused with diametrically opposite opinions: anything from a deep freeze and flat btc to some exorbitant numbers.
Honestly, I am VERY surprised that the economy is able to perform quite well so far with rates being so high (and going higher).

There has always been negative bullshit in bitcoin an even negative bullshit related to bitcoin.  Remember how doom and gloom assessments were in regards to bitcoin's survivability were during 2017 - even as 2017 ended up being a pretty good year for bitcoin, so as bitcoin gets BIGGER the character and nature of the threats to it have to get stronger in order to keep this bad boy down.

I don't claim that there are any guarantees that bitcoin is even going to be able to go up.. and even though bitcoin is also more able to perform better when the fiat systems (the USD is the main one of course) is not imploding.. .but get real.. how much implosion can the USD systems expect to continue to impose on systems in order to attempt to accomplish their stated preference of a "soft-landing".. yeah.. lot's of people (mostly normies) are going to get fucked in this whole attempt at a "soft-landing" but do you really speculate that they have the power to really keep bitcoin in check as much as they are trying to create impressions that they are able to control bitcoin.

They can't control it, and that is part of the reasons why they seem so scared and that they have to sometimes fight so strongly with their various communications of draconian measures and naysaying on bitcoin and purposefully making convoluted proclamations that conflate bitcoin and shitcoins (with vague terms like crypto and blockchain and maybe some other nonsense to even say that bitcoin facilitated FTX to steal the money of rich peeps and normies too). 

You are free to assign whatever weight that you like to the capacities of various status quo systems to be able to hang onto their positions and to keep king daddy down... and yeah, even if bitcoin merely just performs at similar levels to various other investments, that would still end up being too much winning for them to tolerate - even while it is quite likely that bitcoin is going to continue to outperform various other status quo assets...even if selectively any of us might be able to spin these matters and to whine about bitcoin supposedly being below the 2017 top as if those kinds of numbers were really reflective of where bitcoin has been, where we are at and/or where we are going.

I am sticking with my recommendation for any newbies to get between 1% and 25% into bitcoin, and how they get to those levels can take a long time to figure out, and there is also a lot of range within my recommendation in order that the whimpy ones may well end up erroring on the lower end of the range, and surely sometimes the more aggressive beginners will bet BIG, and for sure the more sophisticated that we are, and the more time that we spend studying the bitcoin space, we are going to be able to tailorize our own more sophisticated strategies, even though the beginner strategies are likely going to be best to be employed in basic and lazy and nonthinking ways.. and as many folks become more and more used to bitcoin, and realize that bitcoin is likely going to remain the best (or amongst the best) of places to hold wealth, then Gresham principles are likely going to continue to motivate folks in terms of spending their shitcoins first, spending their fiat first, cashing out on their traditional investments first, and making sure that they are actually holding and accumulating a sufficient and adequate (rather than a whimpy) allocation to bitcoin...while at the same time hopefully accounting for all of their financial and psychological particulars rather than just guessing...but people are people and some of them are going to be better at harmonizing their individually tailored allocations into bitcoin than others.
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December 22, 2022, 03:35:46 AM
Merited by El duderino_ (10), xhomerx10 (1), serveria.com (1)

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December 22, 2022, 03:43:13 AM




be careful around here... I heard there's an admin who doesn't like gay Xmas cards
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December 22, 2022, 04:03:57 AM

rats and sinking ships...  

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/21/technology/ftx-fraud-guilty-pleas.html
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December 22, 2022, 04:33:49 AM
Last edit: December 22, 2022, 05:00:30 AM by Biodom

Do we even "need" alts? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwplJmMWSHo

InvestAnswers "James" has a discussion of 15 points given by a bitcoin maximalist 'Airstyles'.
Apparently, James is 80% in btc...but not 100%. He tries to defend some alt usage, but not aggressively.
Some interesting graphs and points ensued...and I learned something new about decentralization, wallet #, etc.
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Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


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December 22, 2022, 04:38:52 AM


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Tespata
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Contact: @Reni_end1


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December 22, 2022, 04:46:58 AM

Many of us are losing a lot of money due to Bitcoin falling so low.For which many of us have invested in various tokens and now have to get stressed At the end of every year Bitcoin has shown new surprises but this year it has been a complete reversal for which we have our hands on our heads.We expect Bitcoin to return to previous levels so that our investment is successful Investing and waiting for a long time to get back the original budget but that stage is not coming anymore, now the only hope is that Bitcoin can go to the previous stage very quickly then we can be normal.
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