MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[solex]

Canada
Under 1k.

Waiting one month.
1 week of that is rush 5% fee.

still waiting.

Wow, that's outrageous. The next thing MtGox could offer is instantaneous fiat transfer to anywhere in the world: for 100% fee.

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[Alpaca Bob]

The Bitcoin community is strange. No articles on Forbes, /. or other media. Such a media storm would force them to come up with a coherent answer.

The Genesis Block: http://thegenesisblock.com/mt-gox-withdrawal-freeze-driving-significant-liquidity-concerns/

Let's Talk Bitcoin!: https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e23-1-is-mt-gox-insolvent-lets

There's probably more...

[joesmoe2012]

I would imagine that the 5% manual withdraws are prioritized by wire size (and as such a 1000 dollar wire is going to be very low priority. I would imagein this because they only get 10 wires per day, why would they waste one on under 1000...

[Luno]

The Bitcoin community is strange. No articles on Forbes, /. or other media. Such a media storm would force them to come up with a coherent answer.

The Genesis Block: http://thegenesisblock.com/mt-gox-withdrawal-freeze-driving-significant-liquidity-concerns/

Let's Talk Bitcoin!: https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e23-1-is-mt-gox-insolvent-lets

There's probably more...

Nice articles, but I was hinting to main stream media. Forbes has an on-line reporter quite into Bitcoin and  not afraid of writing critical articles, and earlier this year, both FOX and BBC followed Bitcoin intensely. I would imagine that news like that would attract their attention. The first link you posted from "thegenesisblock.com" is actually quite encouraging, the figures in the article suggest that they can work their way out of it especially if they get some investor or sell their ass to let's say Forex.

So not all of Gox is bad, just one guy's theft and lies.

[bnjmnkent]

The Bitcoin community is strange. No articles on Forbes, /. or other media. Such a media storm would force them to come up with a coherent answer.

Matonis is the Forbes-Guy. He is also a member of the board
on https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/board
together with Karpeles. In addition, he is often on bitcoincharts.com,
which is run by Tibanne corporation (perform a whois query).

I'd say Forbes is out of the question for critique in this case.

But do we need more critique? An assessment of Mt.Gox 's
financial position besides looking at symptoms, which can
be created through FUD and fortified, is imho needed.

Every follow-up exchange profits from Mt.Gox taking a loss.

[Luno]

True it's a crossing fingers game. I remember how a long and painfull process for some it was to realize that Pirate@40 never had the intent to pay back anything. On the same lines BFL was considered a fake by the majority here for most of their life, but in the end still delivering. So the lesson is never say never.

However the point is also giving possible future customers of Mt.Gox a balanced informed choice. If you want silence because you "hope" that new deposits will be used to fund you account, you are just as bad as any pyramid scheme participant.

History is full of businesses taking customer money up till the second they declare bankruptcy.

It's very important that there is a thread like this one and others on the problem with Gox on this forum. Not reacting against cloudiness is a serious setback for the credibility of Bitcoin. An outsider can easily judge us all as being in on this scam called Bitcoin if we pretend things are better left alone.

I'm not claiming that Mt.Gox has bought them self in their current situation on purpose and with the intend to commit fraud, not at all. However Their only option is to come forward and present a recovery plan together with a disclosure of those of their business partners supporting their recovery plan.

If we just sit here on our hands and try to kid our selves into thinking that this will go away, we are just too stupid.

They have business wise fucked up several times so even if they manage to steer out of this one, it's only a matter of time before we learn that something equally bad has been going on for a long time and someone again have misplaced money!

Gox needs professional management, a board and back bending compliance with their obligations as a money transmitter, or completely finish dealing with US banks or USD if that does the trick, take their business overseas as they started out.

They have plenty of ways to communicate that they are doing exactly that. In that way they would also acknowledge that they are not taking any deposits to cover their debt.

Hush hush takes no one nowhere

[tvbcof]

I'd say that Mt. Gox's viability under what appears to be significant attack (including appropriation of funds) by banks, governments, and Coinlabs is subject to some question.

I have roughly five large which is under management of Mt. Gox which is the amount that I felt rational to put at risk.  This, in part, because it seemed like a number which was non-trivial enough to give me cause to seek relief upon it's loss.  Almost exactly one month ago it was 'confirmed' by Mt. Gox as being requested as an outgoing international wire and has remianed in that status since.  Naturally I keep records and evidence of all UI changes.  (I should also clarify that my primary goal and desire is simply to receive the USD for personal use reasons.)

I expect to pursue relief via legal channels if/when Mt. Gox folds and/or if Mt. Gox remains operation but refuses to take action on my request for a sufficient duration.  I am, however, not a legal expert and do not know the appropriate questions to ask in an attempt to collect information for future action.

For my part, my current best hypothesis is that Krapeles would prefer to run a solid and responsive business and would be doing so absent attack.  Accordingly, I am at this time most interested in provoking transparency into the nature and mechanics of the attacks and funds appropriations which have impacted Mt. Gox as a business and consequently the funds I supplied and have had at least impacted by access performance issues if not completely lost.

The point of this post is to brainstorm about such things, and to see if anyone else is thinking along the same lines and interested in forming a group of interested and impacted parties.  I suspect that formulating a group of potential future strategies and collecting information now which might be of use to them may be of value going forward.

[bnjmnkent]

@Luno
You mention lots of valid points.

I think I should have stated it differently. What I tried to convey is, that the format
of a 70+ pages thread on bitcointalk is ok to inform future users, as you state it,
but lots of energy is not really channeled.

I am dreaming of a bitcoin exchange ranking site, where incidents are reported in
a uniform format, backed up by evidence or proof. This would increase the
competition for excellence, i.e. customer support. If this would be set up the right
way, output of such a site could serve as a starting point for legal action.

I am just bouncing around an idea...
BTW, I agree with you on all points.

[Luno]

It used to be easy to get an in depth answer from Mt.Gox owners around here if there was trouble.

So I'm the first to sign a petition here to have them post a credible business plan here. Not a confession disclosure of business secrets or finger pointing to whom inside is to blame.

Some sort of update on what they are doing now and issues they have troubles with, founded in the suggestions published in articles the lasts months.

If this was 60 minutes, consider this a request for a Bill Rathner special report on Mt. Gox, even if they conclude that it will take another four months before withdrawals are up to speed if they can indulge some confidence in me and others,they'll win a lot right away and in the long run. This could also be an opportunity to attract help from outside money, if they choose to break this wall of silence.

Signed

Luno

[Nagle]

I expect to pursue relief via legal channels if/when Mt. Gox folds and/or if Mt. Gox remains operation but refuses to take action on my request for a sufficient duration.  I am, however, not a legal expert and do not know the appropriate questions to ask in an attempt to collect information for future action.

What do you consider to be a "sufficient duration"?

Basic rule of collection: "The longer you wait, the less likely you are to get the money owed to you." When a business gets 90 days behind in their payments, they're probably never going to pay without coercion.  Mt. Gox announced their "temporary hiatus" on June 20, 2013.  Today is September 14, 2013 - day 86.

There are lots of options. For amounts up to $10,000, you can sue in Small Claims Court in Delaware. Mt. Gox, to comply with FinCen rules, has a nominal "office" in Delaware for service of process. That makes them subject to U.S. law. You can file a complaint with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, on the grounds that Mt. Gox is acting as an unlicensed broker/dealer in the US. You can get advice on collection of debts in Tokyo from the Japan External Trade Organization, and they can tell you how to file a complaint with the Japan Financial Services Agency.

You can do all of those things simultaneously. Once you start to apply pressure like that, you usually get paid. 

Mt. Gox is in Japan, which is a major trading partner with the US. Financial disputes come up all the time, and they're routinely resolved. The US SEC and the Japan FSA talk to each other; they even have a formal cooperation agreement. It's not Romania.

[Luno]

That's good news. Copy pasted your post.

What about the money confiscated by the DHS? They are not lost I guess, but held until it's determined if they have to pay a fine or that they are not earnings from illegal activities ?

So the money are still an asset to Gox going into the balance sheet when they are released?

[zeta1]

It used to be easy to get an in depth answer from Mt.Gox owners around here if there was trouble.

So I'm the first to sign a petition here to have them post a credible business plan here. Not a confession disclosure of business secrets or finger pointing to whom inside is to blame.

Some sort of update on what they are doing now and issues they have troubles with, founded in the suggestions published in articles the lasts months.

If this was 60 minutes, consider this a request for a Bill Rathner special report on Mt. Gox, even if they conclude that it will take another four months before withdrawals are up to speed if they can indulge some confidence in me and others,they'll win a lot right away and in the long run. This could also be an opportunity to attract help from outside money, if they choose to break this wall of silence.

Signed

Luno

Which petition do you mean?

[Luno]

Well just a request to them to lay some cards down here, or even better,  do it through some main stream media.

I've noticed that televised news about Bitcoin is no longer a daily occurrence, as it was in April.

(I've been away from the scene 4 months not reading any posts and started to wonder what happened to my withdrawal from Gox when I checked back in last week and discovered this mess), so I'm a little chocked, and generally Bitcoin has faded a little in the spotlight it seems, (not necessarily behind the scenes in number of serious businesses).

So this is more an appeal than a petition: Gox; Karpels, whomever please give us a resume of how you view your current situation and what action you are taking internally and with authorities and what kind of time frame you are expecting to sort things out.

If Gox was any other multinational money business they would have put a great effort in calming customers and investors in press statements and in articles in relevant media. A good Public Relations manager would have used a dire situation like this to reach out to a greater audience for free!

So WTF is Happening? Hiding under a rock is ridiculous.

[melon]

http://thegenesisblock.com/mt-gox-responds-to-coinlab-lawsuit-with-5-5m-in-counterclaims/

a good read about gox money situation...w links to actual filed documents in the case

[Luno]

http://thegenesisblock.com/mt-gox-responds-to-coinlab-lawsuit-with-5-5m-in-counterclaims/

a good read about gox money situation...w links to actual filed documents in the case

Yeah, read that, it was posted earlier in this thread, But there are no response from Gox on that info. For legal reasons they might want to keep tight but the normal thing to do would be to issue a press statement to their pledge or something.

Why don't Gox use their voice on this, on anything officially?

I'm not really any more trying to find out what happened, and this thread has been valuable for that purpose.  I just can't dig why Gox is not taking a more offensive extrovert approach. Others have been sued and either, filed a counter claim or started an image campaign or took other steps.

The Bitcoinica disaster that turned into a nightmare for Intersango really just exposed Two businesses that didn't have that much substance when they were cracked open, their flaw being inexperience on security and legal hurdles running an exchange and international regulations.

Are we demanding Too much of Gox, is Bitcoins largest exchange more like Apple in the early eighties?
Are we fair in demanding reliability like from any bank when we in reality are dealing with a small tech startup?

Is it reasonable to demand some degree of honesty and openness? I think so.

[melon]

same news site but different article (w 2 month 1 day difference...very up to date than the other) a good read ...seroiusly

[Delerium]

For legal reasons they might want to keep tight but the normal thing to do would be to issue a press statement to their pledge or something.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

Is it reasonable to demand some degree of honesty and openness? I think so.

Absolutley, i actually don't know anymore than you guys and I've had a long hard think about things and come to my personal thoughts:

• No mention of the court case - commenting on it is probably not advisable until its all over just in case anything is used negatively in the case?
• Withdrawl issues - Whilst i know they're actively seeking more banking partners to alleviate the problem, the last thing you would do is go around shouting about their current partners as that would only annoy them / cause them to cease operations completely but also potentially annoy new prospective partners. I guess we live in a banks world and they really hold the keys

I actually have a very large sum of money in gox right now and I'm really not worried about it. If i actually needed it right now.... i'd be quite miffed as im sure many of you are.

Del

[Luno]

same news site but different article

Yes sorry, my wishes come true! First impression: Coinlab gets laughed out of court if they take it all the way. 75M in compensation for US costumers not sorted probably, a joke in my legal unprofessional opinion.

If I remember right, customers were sorted by IP when Coinlab joined the party, and proxies were used by some and it was before KYC verification had been done on a large scale and most traded in USD. So I guess that Coinlab found out that they had gotten less US customers out of the deal than they bargained for.

From the article it appears that Gox has been running the tightest ship and they go to great extent to protect customer interests.

This article is great, and I would like to see it on other media!
Sorry to Gox for my almost ranting in this thread, however their customer support should have  been a little less obvious in deceiving customers in the preceding months, and they should have had a response ready on a similar level as in the article some time in June already, That would have been a responsible response.

About tightness: Funny that two businesses sign a million Dollar contract and non of them thinks it's a good idea to spend 1000$ on a lawyer to go over their business plan?

God speed Gox, I'll sleep better tonight

[melon]

yeah I think their defense about breach of contract for noncompliance in registering is legit (although I think excessive regulation requirements are hindering startups)... would rather see gox win whos run the biggest exchange for 4 years than a business that isn't sure what its own buseness entails...seems theyre off on other ventures now funding companies while holding money of customers elsewhere...gox is in the right imo and the lab is wrong...a failed experiment hence why lab was in the name...lol

[moses]

i made a withdraw request on the wednesday the 11th late afternoon and the money was on my account on friday! 100€ (98.6€ arrived)! german bank account!