MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[sturle]

Welp. Besides all the fiat problems, they also have a problem with BTC withdrawals... They spend Coinbase transactions with only 6 confirmation...

This coin selection bug is fixed now, isn't it?  Somebody are mining to a MtGox address.  Clever.  I can understand why MtGox didn't think of that.

[1714207747]

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[Jouke]

Welp. Besides all the fiat problems, they also have a problem with BTC withdrawals... They spend Coinbase transactions with only 6 confirmation...

This coin selection bug is fixed now, isn't it?  Somebody are mining to a MtGox address.  Clever.  I can understand why MtGox didn't think of that.

This happened today.

[2weiX]

I think you should not spread, that SEPA transfers are solved, until you saw it with your own eyes.. And even if no one here is lying it could be the same as usual, that it's just luck which transfer is fast and which not.
Fact is that there are thousands of undone withdraws pending or "confirmed" since weeks or months. Only if these undone transfers were done, they can say "it's solved".

You have to document your claim of thousands of withdraws pending.  I count a total of three recent SEPA withdrawals in this thread which have been pending for more  than two weeks.  Each one reeported over and over.  Standard international withdrawal is very slow.  We know that.  There is a huge backlog from the middle of June.

I'll try a four digit SEPA withdrawal next week, and report back.

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

So nothing is solved for open transfers... and I doubt it's solved for new transfers, but we will see.

Edit: ah and one withdrawl about 150€ from 2013/07/23 I got after a few days.

Edit2: just because there are not many people reporting delayed transfers, u can't say there are no. Because at the moment it's "normal" and normally no one cares about it anymore.
Today I made a new SEPA transfer about 300€, I will report back, if I get them next week.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

That is fuckin VITAL information.

[smoothie]

I think you should not spread, that SEPA transfers are solved, until you saw it with your own eyes.. And even if no one here is lying it could be the same as usual, that it's just luck which transfer is fast and which not.
Fact is that there are thousands of undone withdraws pending or "confirmed" since weeks or months. Only if these undone transfers were done, they can say "it's solved".

You have to document your claim of thousands of withdraws pending.  I count a total of three recent SEPA withdrawals in this thread which have been pending for more  than two weeks.  Each one reeported over and over.  Standard international withdrawal is very slow.  We know that.  There is a huge backlog from the middle of June.

I'll try a four digit SEPA withdrawal next week, and report back.

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

So nothing is solved for open transfers... and I doubt it's solved for new transfers, but we will see.

Edit: ah and one withdrawl about 150€ from 2013/07/23 I got after a few days.

Edit2: just because there are not many people reporting delayed transfers, u can't say there are no. Because at the moment it's "normal" and normally no one cares about it anymore.
Today I made a new SEPA transfer about 300€, I will report back, if I get them next week.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

That is fuckin VITAL information.

And of course this was not put into the updates on their press releases.

Make a press release and leave out important information like this = Gox's style of running a "professional" business.

[flound1129]

I think you should not spread, that SEPA transfers are solved, until you saw it with your own eyes.. And even if no one here is lying it could be the same as usual, that it's just luck which transfer is fast and which not.
Fact is that there are thousands of undone withdraws pending or "confirmed" since weeks or months. Only if these undone transfers were done, they can say "it's solved".

You have to document your claim of thousands of withdraws pending.  I count a total of three recent SEPA withdrawals in this thread which have been pending for more  than two weeks.  Each one reeported over and over.  Standard international withdrawal is very slow.  We know that.  There is a huge backlog from the middle of June.

I'll try a four digit SEPA withdrawal next week, and report back.

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

So nothing is solved for open transfers... and I doubt it's solved for new transfers, but we will see.

Edit: ah and one withdrawl about 150€ from 2013/07/23 I got after a few days.

Edit2: just because there are not many people reporting delayed transfers, u can't say there are no. Because at the moment it's "normal" and normally no one cares about it anymore.
Today I made a new SEPA transfer about 300€, I will report back, if I get them next week.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

That is fuckin VITAL information.

Also a convenient way to move you to the back of the line.

[Nagle]

And of course this was not put into the updates on their press releases.

Make a press release and leave out important information like this = Gox's style of running a "professional" business.

Right. That's how Mt. Gox divides the suckers into tiers.

There are the suckers who believe what it says on the Mt. Gox web site: "Trade with confidence on the world's largest Bitcoin exchange".   And their press releases: "Mt. Gox is happy to announce that global account withdrawals have now fully resumed as of today" (July 4, 2013). Those suckers are likely to keep their money in Mt. Gox because they have no idea there's a problem. Mt. Gox keeps them in the dark.

The next class of suckers are those who know Mt. Gox has problems, but think they have some way around them. Those are the people who think it's OK if USD withdrawals don't work as long as SEPA or JPY or Bitcoin withdrawals do. Mt. Gox keeps them happy by alternating between delays in each withdrawal method.

Then there are the ones who don't quit because they're addicted to gambling and Mt. Gox is the biggest bookie around. These are the kind of people who knowingly invest in Ponzi schemes, thinking they'll get out early and be one of the winners. 

[jl2012]

If that is really banking issues, why don't they use Western Union? I believe WU fee is much lower than 5%

[sturle]

That is fuckin VITAL information.

And of course this was not put into the updates on their press releases.

Make a press release and leave out important information like this = Gox's style of running a "professional" business.

Have you ever written a press release which got the press' attention?  This is not the kind of information you would put in a press release.  Press releases should be short and to the point, and leave out details. It would in fact be very unprofessional to put details like this in a press release.  The 20 days are a variable depending on the queue length, btw.  It is more like 10 now.

MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

[zeta1]

That is fuckin VITAL information.

And of course this was not put into the updates on their press releases.

Make a press release and leave out important information like this = Gox's style of running a "professional" business.

Have you ever written a press release which got the press' attention?  This is not the kind of information you would put in a press release.  Press releases should be short and to the point, and leave out details. It would in fact be very unprofessional to put details like this in a press release.  The 20 days are a variable depending on the queue length, btw.  It is more like 10 now.

MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

I am waiting for a withdrawal form the 20th of august. St*pid Gox

[tvbcof]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

+1

All of the complaints have set my exceptions pretty low, and induced me to hedge my bets with other options before I even started trying to use them to trade out of BTC.  When I hit the 1 month for getting my wire (which is coming right up) I'll try to get some feedback from support and/or hook up to their IRC or whatever.  I accept that they may have more than their fair share of problems which are not their own fault, but it seems reasonable that Mt. Gox should proactively provide some general information, if not specific information, about how things are going.  I've not found it in the times I've logged on to try to check up on things.

[crazy_rabbit]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

+1

All of the complaints have set my exceptions pretty low, and induced me to hedge my bets with other options before I even started trying to use them to trade out of BTC.  When I hit the 1 month for getting my wire (which is coming right up) I'll try to get some feedback from support and/or hook up to their IRC or whatever.  I accept that they may have more than their fair share of problems which are not their own fault, but it seems reasonable that Mt. Gox should proactively provide some general information, if not specific information, about how things are going.  I've not found it in the times I've logged on to try to check up on things.

I really wish they kept a blog or something. I don't understand why they are so secretive and opaque. Sometimes I feel like they are disgusted by their customers and want as little as possible to do with us. *sigh*

[tvbcof]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

+1

All of the complaints have set my exceptions pretty low, and induced me to hedge my bets with other options before I even started trying to use them to trade out of BTC.  When I hit the 1 month for getting my wire (which is coming right up) I'll try to get some feedback from support and/or hook up to their IRC or whatever.  I accept that they may have more than their fair share of problems which are not their own fault, but it seems reasonable that Mt. Gox should proactively provide some general information, if not specific information, about how things are going.  I've not found it in the times I've logged on to try to check up on things.

I really wish they kept a blog or something. I don't understand why they are so secretive and opaque. Sometimes I feel like they are disgusted by their customers and want as little as possible to do with us. *sigh*

Ya, time and time again I am blown away by Bitcoin businesses generally being so poor about communications.  It always seems like such a no-brainer to put oneself in the mind of a customer and ask oneself what kind of information and communications they may want, but they always seem to fall so short.  Dunno why.  It is probably easy for those of us on our side of the equation to underestimate the effort it might take to do various things, but I really cannot see how updating a blog could be so problematic. 

Another hypothesis is that somehow they are barred from discussing certain things, but that seems pretty weak in most cases.  I doubt that in instances such as Mt. Gox's issues (whatever they are) or Bitcoin-Central's Instawallet theft they are under some sort of gag order.  If they have lawyers that tell them not to talk then it should be easy and safe to just say so.

My strongest hypothesis is just that the kinds of people who get these businesses going (or buy them from someone who has...as is the case for both Mt. Gox and Instawallet come to think of it) are the types who would fall into a trap of believing themselves so elevated from the 'customer class' that we just don't warrant the time it takes to produce information.  Seems weird though.

[lebing]

I think you should not spread, that SEPA transfers are solved, until you saw it with your own eyes.. And even if no one here is lying it could be the same as usual, that it's just luck which transfer is fast and which not.
Fact is that there are thousands of undone withdraws pending or "confirmed" since weeks or months. Only if these undone transfers were done, they can say "it's solved".

You have to document your claim of thousands of withdraws pending.  I count a total of three recent SEPA withdrawals in this thread which have been pending for more  than two weeks.  Each one reeported over and over.  Standard international withdrawal is very slow.  We know that.  There is a huge backlog from the middle of June.

I'll try a four digit SEPA withdrawal next week, and report back.

I have 5 open SEPA transfers. 3 of them about 200€, one 400€ and one of 800€.  I ordered the transfers: 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/30 , 2013/07/31 ,2013/08/12 and 2013/08/14. One order from 2013/07/26 about 200€ I got after 3 weeks.

So nothing is solved for open transfers... and I doubt it's solved for new transfers, but we will see.

Edit: ah and one withdrawl about 150€ from 2013/07/23 I got after a few days.

Edit2: just because there are not many people reporting delayed transfers, u can't say there are no. Because at the moment it's "normal" and normally no one cares about it anymore.
Today I made a new SEPA transfer about 300€, I will report back, if I get them next week.

I didn't have to contact support.  MagicalTux explained it on #mtgox today:

Code:

13:30 < jouke> Just received an answer on my ticket: "We were bound to certain 
               withdrawal limits per day which forces the requests to pile up 
               in long queue. We suggest you to cancel all your pending 
               withdrawal request and make a new combined single request. So 
               that it be processed faster."
13:32 <@MagicalTux> remember one thing
13:32 <@MagicalTux> if you did multiple requests, only one can be processed 
                    every ~20 days

In short: Cancel all your tiny withdrawals and merge them into one.  It will be processed much faster.

That is fuckin VITAL information.

Its only true if its up to €30k  in total. Anymore than that and you screw yourself worse.

[Luno]

They were sitting on a golden egg being the leading exchange on the most speculative market since Dutch Tulips.

I would imagine that they collected between 10 to 20 percent of all revenues generated in the financial i.e. speculative sector of the Bitcoin economy.

In the past they have been stumped by shear volume of interest, hackers, KYC/AML compliance demands, businesses partners demanding strict coherence to contracts.

We can all thank Mt.Gox for a lot and they have come trough before when everyone suspected we had  heard the last of them.

In the past they must have had several flashes of insights in the line of; "Damned, I guess we can no longer run a multinational financial business from my bedroom in our underwear". However they have also in the past been somewhat honest about their difficulties and presenting a strategy and a time line to solve things in their press statements.

I think that if their problems were balance sheet related, they would have shut down late July early August and been honest about it. I think their troubles are justice related and they are bending over flat to various investigators to supply costumer and transaction info, something they would not be able to disclose publicly. Other have suggested that too, and Gox might be in a situation similar to the e-Gold guy in the late 90'ies.

So yes, this is bad for Bitcoin and Gox and us the costumers with trading accounts. However Gox is not e-gold and in the case that Mark Kapels and the rest of the gang gets arrested and Gox shut down, our assets won't disappear, as was the case with e-gold as the exchange and the currency was one single entity, both found to be illegal.

We will have the same joint civil suit  rights as if we have dealt with any other private business. So if they are charged with not compliance to AML or other stuff, legit verified customers will have no trouble documenting their balances and claim compensation. This is very clear cut case compared to the Trendon Shavers mess. Gox also have some high profiled traders and investors that have money to burn on lawyers, another benefit for the small creditor if it ends like this.


 

[Nagle]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

If Mt. Gox provided honest figures, the financial press would notice and Mt. Gox would go out of business.

If they provided real performance numbers:
 - Total USD, EUR, JPY, GBP withdrawals requested by customers and not yet paid to them.
 - Days slowest payment has been in queue for each currency.
 - Total USD, etc. owed to customers. (Total deposits)
 - Total USD, etc. in segregated customer cash account with bank.
nobody would send them more money.

[sturle]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

If Mt. Gox provided honest figures, the financial press would notice and Mt. Gox would go out of business.

If they provided real performance numbers:
 - Total USD, EUR, JPY, GBP withdrawals requested by customers and not yet paid to them.
 - Days slowest payment has been in queue for each currency.
 - Total USD, etc. owed to customers. (Total deposits)
 - Total USD, etc. in segregated customer cash account with bank.
nobody would send them more money.

Some of this information is very sensitive and some is useless.  E.g. oldest withdrawal in the queue.  If you intentionally DDoS the withdrawal queue by doing many small withdrawals instead of one large, you are placed far back in the queue every time a withdrawal is processed.  This is only fair.  Some of this is very market sensitive.  E.g. total deposits.  (Which are in many different currencies, btw, not just USD.)  They should not publish this, and if they did it would mean instant death as an exchange.  Large investors must depend on MtGox not publishing those numbers.  MtGox has very a very strict privacy policy as well.  It is important to ensure that no private information can leak out.  I can't see any other exchanges publish those numbers either.

The only important number to most people is how long they have to wait for their money if they withdraw today, and how the queue is organized.  I have provided the know figures in this thread.  It is collected from various sources, and I wish MtGox would make similar information available.

[prophetx]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

If Mt. Gox provided honest figures, the financial press would notice and Mt. Gox would go out of business.

If they provided real performance numbers:
 - Total USD, EUR, JPY, GBP withdrawals requested by customers and not yet paid to them.
 - Days slowest payment has been in queue for each currency.
 - Total USD, etc. owed to customers. (Total deposits)
 - Total USD, etc. in segregated customer cash account with bank.
nobody would send them more money.

Some of this information is very sensitive and some is useless.  E.g. oldest withdrawal in the queue.  If you intentionally DDoS the withdrawal queue by doing many small withdrawals instead of one large, you are placed far back in the queue every time a withdrawal is processed.  This is only fair.  Some of this is very market sensitive.  E.g. total deposits.  (Which are in many different currencies, btw, not just USD.)  They should not publish this, and if they did it would mean instant death as an exchange.  Large investors must depend on MtGox not publishing those numbers.  MtGox has very a very strict privacy policy as well.  It is important to ensure that no private information can leak out.  I can't see any other exchanges publish those numbers either.

The only important number to most people is how long they have to wait for their money if they withdraw today, and how the queue is organized.  I have provided the know figures in this thread.  It is collected from various sources, and I wish MtGox would make similar information available.

I disagree. I do not see anything wrong with aggregate data transparency as other financial institutions do this already.  So, what is your logical rationale for instant death an an exchange providing such figures?  

[flound1129]

...
MtGox should however keep an updated information page about the status of withdrawals, queue disciplines and the length and trends of the various queues.  Much like the information I have collected from various sources.

If Mt. Gox provided honest figures, the financial press would notice and Mt. Gox would go out of business.

If they provided real performance numbers:
 - Total USD, EUR, JPY, GBP withdrawals requested by customers and not yet paid to them.
 - Days slowest payment has been in queue for each currency.
 - Total USD, etc. owed to customers. (Total deposits)
 - Total USD, etc. in segregated customer cash account with bank.
nobody would send them more money.

Some of this information is very sensitive and some is useless.  E.g. oldest withdrawal in the queue.  If you intentionally DDoS the withdrawal queue by doing many small withdrawals instead of one large, you are placed far back in the queue every time a withdrawal is processed.  This is only fair.  Some of this is very market sensitive.  E.g. total deposits.  (Which are in many different currencies, btw, not just USD.)  They should not publish this, and if they did it would mean instant death as an exchange.  Large investors must depend on MtGox not publishing those numbers.  MtGox has very a very strict privacy policy as well.  It is important to ensure that no private information can leak out.  I can't see any other exchanges publish those numbers either.

The only important number to most people is how long they have to wait for their money if they withdraw today, and how the queue is organized.  I have provided the know figures in this thread.  It is collected from various sources, and I wish MtGox would make similar information available.

"Indefinite"

[davidspitzer]

It all just seems like a rather transparent ploy to float cash after the confiscation of their funds

[davidspitzer]

I traded one Bitcoin three weeks ago and initiated a international money transferred to my bank in the US I have not seen hide nor hair of it