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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 855550 times)
posormo
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August 31, 2013, 11:58:59 AM
 #1221

BS, you don't have to sit back and do anything.
We were talking about FIAT.


Ya, change fiat to BTC on gox, and withdrawal.   Better than it collapsing as its running illegally according to many in this thread.   So get it out in the form of BTC.
We were talking about getting a profit arbitraging. How do you do that withdrawing btc, may i ask?
Read with more attention next time. Thanks.

No, I moved on to people bitching and whining about their withdrawal times and accusing gox of operating outside of the law because their wires are in a queue.   Which is what I was responding to.   People are doing arbitrage as you can read in a few spots around the forum.  The withdrawal as BTC is for those accusing gox of operating in a dodgy manner or accusing them of being on the verge of collapse.

Any way.  This is a repetitive topic.   

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cedivad
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August 31, 2013, 11:59:42 AM
 #1222

People are arbitrating but the spread is still and always at 10%, does it makes sense?

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Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
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August 31, 2013, 12:03:33 PM
 #1223

People are arbitrating but the spread is still and always at 10%, does it makes sense?
10% is a profit for risking money.
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August 31, 2013, 12:06:08 PM
 #1224

People are arbitrating but the spread is still and always at 10%, does it makes sense?
10% is a profit for risking money.
10% means that people won't risk their capital because they think there is a probability greater than 10% to lose everything.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
painlord2k
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August 31, 2013, 12:54:13 PM
 #1225

Anybody withdraw to USD (USA bank) in the past 2-3 weeks? I mean a brand new request within the last 2-3 weeks, and received the withdrawal timely?

I intend to start a number of withdrawals soon. Just waiting for my account to finish processing through the verification queue.

ONE withdraw is better than many.

They have limits on the number of wires their bank will handle (without asking for more money for manual wires).
If you do more than one withdraw the first will pass the queue faster, the second will wait 2 weeks (at least- probably three), and so on the others.
Then people start complaining.

It is like people going to the ATM and withdrawing 10$ at time when they want withdraw a total of 200$.
Then lamenting there is a queue in front of the ATM and they are unable to withdraw their money.
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August 31, 2013, 01:02:51 PM
 #1226

Well guys, i decided to dive in.
I bought @ bitstamp and i will probably sell on gox.

I will report back how after how long, if ever, my sepa withdrawn arrives.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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August 31, 2013, 02:04:20 PM
 #1227

Japanese banking law is very strict. I would imagine that any company that is going to be holding customers money in their account would require licenses and to be regulated in japan. Not sure if they comply with this or not.

And yes, to exchange USD without a license means they are breaking US law (even if just for BTC), just as bitstamp is.
Crap, I'm breaking the law in the USSA if I exchange my NOK to USD in another country before I travel to the USSA?  Not that I ever would travel there, but I'm sure this comes as a surpise to many people.  How can I get a license to exchange my money to USD?  Many people do this every day, so I'm sure there is a quick and easy procedure.  How can my local bank, which has no presense outside my region with about 50 000 inhabitants, get a license?  Do they have to apply for a licence for every currency they want to exchange?

You are trolling, of course.  Very amusing.

I don't remember exactly how MtGox got away with not needing a license to hold peoples money.  MagicalTux detailed it here on this forum a long time ago, just after buying MtGox from Jed.  Something along the lines of: When you transfer money to MtGox is it for the purpose of buying BTC.  If you withdraw the money again, either because you decided to not buy BTC after all, or you sold BTC, you can only withdraw the money to your own account.  You can try searching for it here on the forum.  MtGox is more like a market where you can buy and sell e.g. Magic the Gathering cards (not very regulated), than a bank (strictly regulated).

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 31, 2013, 09:43:50 PM
 #1228

I can't submit any kind of proof which you are going to accept. It is a case where proving compliance is very difficult.  It would require me to go through every detail of their operations, showing that everything is according to Japanese law (which I don't know).  Proving the opposite would be very easy, however.  Just find one example of MtGox doing something which is not in full compliance with Japanese laws or regulations.  Perhaps you could try that, and agree that MtGox is compliant unless we can find an example of MtGox breaking any law or regulation in Japan or other countries where it is represented (e.g. Poland).
Here's a summary of the Payment Services Act in Japan:

The PSA will allow companies that are not licensed Banks to engage in the business of ‘money remittance transactions’ in Japan provided that: (i) they are registered as ‘fund transfer business operators’ (operators); and (ii) they are able to engage in services to the extent that such transactions fall under the category of a ‘certain small amount of transactions’. Details of the ‘certain small amount’ mentioned in (ii) above will be provided for in the cabinet order. However, in light of discussions at the National Diet of Japan, such amount is expected to be between JPY500,000 and JPY1,000,000 or less. An entity which intends to be an operator will be subject to a registration requirement and certain regulations including the security of its assets and other customer protection measures, supervision and measures against money laundering.

Before this law, only banks could do money transfers. After this law took effect in 2009, almost all the cell phone companies in Japan went into payment services. So sending money from or to a phone is now widespread. All the big money transfer companies like PayPal, Travelex, iRemit, etc. have registered.  As of the end of 2011, there were 20 companies in Japan registered under the Payment Services Act.

Mt. Gox has to register under the Payment Services Act as a "Funds Transfer Business Operator", or become a bank or a "financial instruments firm". They're not either of the last two; here's the list from the Financial Services Agency. I'm trying to find the list for the 20 firms registered under the Payment Services Act. That's done by the Kanto Local Finance Bureau.  Here's an FAQ for funds transfer businesses. I can't find Mt. Gox in any list of the FSA or the Kanto Local Finance Bureau, and they have lists of every value card, money transfer scheme, and financial institution down to Resident Evil game points. (When a game goes bust in Japan, you can get back your unspent game points as yen.)

Even if they registered under the Payment Services Act, they're doing transactions too large for that category of business.
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August 31, 2013, 09:54:08 PM
 #1229

People are arbitrating but the spread is still and always at 10%, does it makes sense?
That's probably about what it costs to arbitrage Bitcoin/JPY on Mt. Gox, JPY to USD at some bank, transfer to the US, USD to BTC on Bitstamp, BTC to Mt. Gox, and repeat.

Before Mt. Gox defaulted on USD payments, the spread was usually under 3%.
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August 31, 2013, 10:04:57 PM
 #1230

I can't submit any kind of proof which you are going to accept. It is a case where proving compliance is very difficult.  It would require me to go through every detail of their operations, showing that everything is according to Japanese law (which I don't know).  Proving the opposite would be very easy, however.  Just find one example of MtGox doing something which is not in full compliance with Japanese laws or regulations.  Perhaps you could try that, and agree that MtGox is compliant unless we can find an example of MtGox breaking any law or regulation in Japan or other countries where it is represented (e.g. Poland).
Here's a summary of the Payment Services Act in Japan:

The PSA will allow companies that are not licensed Banks to engage in the business of ‘money remittance transactions’ in Japan provided that: (i) they are registered as ‘fund transfer business operators’ (operators); and (ii) they are able to engage in services to the extent that such transactions fall under the category of a ‘certain small amount of transactions’. Details of the ‘certain small amount’ mentioned in (ii) above will be provided for in the cabinet order. However, in light of discussions at the National Diet of Japan, such amount is expected to be between JPY500,000 and JPY1,000,000 or less. An entity which intends to be an operator will be subject to a registration requirement and certain regulations including the security of its assets and other customer protection measures, supervision and measures against money laundering.
...
Mt. Gox has to register under the Payment Services Act as a "Funds Transfer Business Operator", or become a bank or a "financial instruments firm".
Why?  MtGox don't transfer funds, except via banks.  Banks are licensed.  If sending money via banks was illegal without a license, it would be impossible to do any kind of business without this license.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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September 01, 2013, 02:14:38 AM
 #1231

is there a way for a US citizen to establish a japanese bank so we can get withdrawals instantly?
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September 01, 2013, 08:20:17 AM
 #1232

is there a way for a US citizen to establish a japanese bank so we can get withdrawals instantly?
NO

In the last 50 days on average 20k of Bitcoins (USD) where traded per day on gox.
A year ago before the spike and all 34k of Bitcoins changed hands per day. So a workload reduction of about 1/3!
AceCoin
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September 02, 2013, 10:47:25 AM
 #1233

excuse me... SOMEONE EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS IN BTC (not sepa or bank or other) WITHDRAW?
cedivad
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September 02, 2013, 12:22:16 PM
 #1234

excuse me... SOMEONE EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS IN BTC (not sepa or bank or other) WITHDRAW?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286255.msg3063524#msg3063524

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
AceCoin
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September 02, 2013, 12:59:01 PM
 #1235

excuse me... SOMEONE EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS IN BTC (not sepa or bank or other) WITHDRAW?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286255.msg3063524#msg3063524

so for BTC withdraw from mgox there are no delay or problem?
it's important because IMHO i think that mtgox can still be used only for trading: but when you have to withdraw currencies via sepa or normal bank transfer, it's better to withdraw btc from mtgox, and so, put btc to convert in another exchange in which bank transfer work well
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September 02, 2013, 01:09:42 PM
 #1236

excuse me... SOMEONE EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS IN BTC (not sepa or bank or other) WITHDRAW?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=286255.msg3063524#msg3063524

so for BTC withdraw from mgox there are no delay or problem?
it's important because IMHO i think that mtgox can still be used only for trading: but when you have to withdraw currencies via sepa or normal bank transfer, it's better to withdraw btc from mtgox, and so, put btc to convert in another exchange in which bank transfer work well

this is misinformation, there is a big list of people on this thread and other who are getting sepa transfers apparently within a couple days in most cases...

WINGS Beta is live - list your ICO for only 5000 WINGS at https://wings.ai - over $650 Million raised by ICOs with WINGS
cedivad
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September 02, 2013, 01:20:12 PM
 #1237

You should be able to increase your sepa limit to a much bigger treadshold, just email gox.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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September 02, 2013, 01:30:36 PM
 #1238

this is misinformation, there is a big list of people on this thread and other who are getting sepa transfers apparently within a couple days in most cases...

i don't know... maybe yes.
But from my side, i had a 30 days delay and i don't want to risk again. Sorry.
I lost money, not jokes, by converting again EUR to BTC to withdraw in safe way but in wrong period Sad

btw, S.E.P.A. is an european interbank agreement, and MUST ARRIVES IN 1 WORKING DAY BY EUROPEAN LAWS, not opinions or subjective things...
sturle
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September 02, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
 #1239

this is misinformation, there is a big list of people on this thread and other who are getting sepa transfers apparently within a couple days in most cases...
1. Verified accounts can do a maximum of 1000 EUR withdraws at a time. That's a ridiculously low amount, it's a joke. That being said...
10 000 EUR.  You have to ask support to increase your limits above 1k EUR / 100 BTC.  This is a security feature.  I keep my BTC limit well below max, just in case.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
coastermonger
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September 03, 2013, 07:35:07 PM
 #1240

So as a U.S. customer it won't be easy for me to use SEPA (which is unfortunate because people say that's the only withdrawal method really working)

So which option is realistically feasible other than BTC?  Swift? Or is this an arb opportunity that only Euro Users are really taking advantage of 1,000 EUR at a time?

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