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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 855723 times)
sturle
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October 08, 2013, 03:16:15 PM
 #1741

Anyway you made at least three mistakes:
1. Arbitrary 24 hour period.  Look at the volume over time to get a real number.  30 day here: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/
2. You are comparing apples and bicycles.  On some exchanges all the volume is counted as USD.  MtGox has a working multi-currency exchange.  This is their main feature.  If you deposit EUR and buy or sell and withdraw EUR, the trade will be reported as EUR.  Some other exchanges (noteably Bitstamp) will report this as USD.
3. To compare exchanges, you obviously have to use their total volume.  Not some arbitrary currency.
1. A 30 day sample is just a bigger sample and is no more “real”  than a 24 hour sample.
2. I did not know Bitstamp aggregated all currencies and quoted them as dollar exchange volumes,  I though they just traded dollars again apologies.  Presumable BTC-e is not the same as they quote muti-currency exchange rates?
3. People on this thread have quoted how some currencies are working better than others, notable Japanese yen, presumably because of locality.  Hence I was trying to illustrate how Gox was essentially loosing US business.
4.  You still don't need to be so rude.
If you pick ten 24 hour samples by random, MtGox will lead most of them.  One 24 hour sample is hardly worth mentioning.  I have had days with higher volume on my simple OTC exchange (see sig) than CampBX and a lot of smaller exchanges.  This doesn't make me bigger than them.  If you take hourly volume, my volume has been higher than Bitstamp as well.  This does not make my exchange bigger than Bitstamp.  It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interresting.

BTC-E have multiple markets with separate USD and EUR volumes.  Not interconnected the same way as MtGox, but still more than one currency.  Bitstamp converts everything to USD at a fee of ~0.4%, and the same fee when converting back.  It is not possible to convert by trading on the exchange, so if you think the USD value is going to fall (more or less certain as long as the worthless creatures in the USSA Congress are on strike), you have to get your funds out of there.  At a fee.  On MtGox you can easily convert your USD and trade forex as well as BTC.  Even USSAnians can do that.

Your illustration of MtGox losing US business isn't working very well.  Many people trading in USD on any exchange are not USSAnians, and many people trading other currencies on MtGox are.  Getting a JPY account to do fast arbitrage has become increasingly popular among USSAnians as well.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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leemar
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October 08, 2013, 03:39:12 PM
 #1742

“It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interesting “

It is not random just a smaller sample sizes, grown-ups should know what random means.

You can argue it is not significant but that and interest is as you say a matter of opinion, and in my opinion not correct.

Below 15% now.
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October 08, 2013, 03:55:00 PM
 #1743

“It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interesting “

It is not random just a smaller sample sizes, grown-ups should know what random means.
I know very well what random means, thank you.  By choosing a smaller sample you amplify randomness.

Quote
Below 15% now.
You are still comparing apples and bicycles.  Why do you include European trading on Bitstamp, but not on MtGox?  Why do you include Japanese trading on Bitstamp, but not on MtGox.  Because if you did, you wouldn't get the number you wanted, right?

The largest exchange in the world is Room77 in Berlin.  No other exchange trade that many BTC against burgers every day.  No, wait!  I have larger volume than all other exchanges in the world trading NOK/BTC, so all the rest are tiny compared to me.  Even MtGox.  See, by choosing an arbitrary metric I can skew the numbers any way I want.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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October 08, 2013, 04:08:07 PM
 #1744

“It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interesting “

It is not random just a smaller sample sizes, grown-ups should know what random means.
I know very well what random means, thank you.  By choosing a smaller sample you amplify randomness.

Quote
Below 15% now.
You are still comparing apples and bicycles.  Why do you include European trading on Bitstamp, but not on MtGox?  Why do you include Japanese trading on Bitstamp, but not on MtGox.  Because if you did, you wouldn't get the number you wanted, right?

The largest exchange in the world is Room77 in Berlin.  No other exchange trade that many BTC against burgers every day.  No, wait!  I have larger volume than all other exchanges in the world trading NOK/BTC, so all the rest are tiny compared to me.  Even MtGox.  See, by choosing an arbitrary metric I can skew the numbers any way I want.

I just thought it was an interesting observation about $US traded volume on Gox clearly you don’t, and I don't like being insulted for no reason.
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October 08, 2013, 04:33:00 PM
 #1745

All currencies combined it's 23% for 24hr.

That really is pretty darn low.

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October 08, 2013, 04:48:05 PM
 #1746

All currencies combined it's 23% for 24hr.

That really is pretty darn low.

But is it statistically significant  Wink
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October 08, 2013, 05:00:09 PM
 #1747

I just thought it was an interesting observation about $US traded volume on Gox clearly you don’t, and I don't like being insulted for no reason.
It would be interresting observation if it was accompanied with an interresting analysis, and not a statement which is wrong:
Quote
Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%
Yes, the USD keeps falling.  People seem to flee away from the USD where it is possible to do so.  On MtGox as well.  If you sell BTC because you expect the price to fall in a few days, you don't want to sit on a different currency which is even more likely to fall.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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October 08, 2013, 05:01:42 PM
 #1748

There is something I don't get, people who buy bitcoins now, would not do so on mtgox for obvious reason, higher price. So on mtgox it is only people selling btc for a slow withdrawal. (except daytraders, people with fiat on mtgox buying bitcoins to withdraw etc). So shouldn't this mean that mtgox and bitstamp would get closer and closer since no new fiat should enter mtgox? Eventually there should be little fiat left on mtgox even if the withdrawals are slow.  I don't get why the spread keeps being so high for so long.

Anyone know?
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October 08, 2013, 05:05:36 PM
 #1749

The nagging question is that if volume is so low on Gox, price is easily fixed at whatever they see fit.

The walls look the same as before the flash crash to 110,-. That's some coincidence.

                                                                               
                
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                        ,▄▌███▀▀¬              ▓█▀     █▄                      
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                                            ▀                             

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October 08, 2013, 09:03:13 PM
 #1750

Anyone knows the fees associated with withdrawing money for gox to a citi or BoA account? I see 2000 yen, so about U$S20 but is there any other fee? The FAQ states "Additional fees may be charged by the receiving bank or an intermediate bank." Clear as mud uh?
Anyone received an international wire transfer from Gox lately? Any % based fees?

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October 08, 2013, 09:11:17 PM
 #1751

Anyone knows the fees associated with withdrawing money for gox to a citi or BoA account? I see 2000 yen, so about U$S20 but is there any other fee? The FAQ states "Additional fees may be charged by the receiving bank or an intermediate bank." Clear as mud uh?
Anyone received an international wire transfer from Gox lately? Any % based fees?
International you can forget about. A "expedited" or "emergency" withdrawal takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks and cost 5%
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October 09, 2013, 03:37:42 AM
 #1752

Looks like Gox is back on track for domestic yen withdrawals.   My latest ones completed in 2 days.

Glad to hear at least something's on track.

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October 09, 2013, 07:09:37 AM
 #1753

There is something I don't get, people who buy bitcoins now, would not do so on mtgox for obvious reason, higher price. So on mtgox it is only people selling btc for a slow withdrawal. (except daytraders, people with fiat on mtgox buying bitcoins to withdraw etc). So shouldn't this mean that mtgox and bitstamp would get closer and closer since no new fiat should enter mtgox? Eventually there should be little fiat left on mtgox even if the withdrawals are slow.  I don't get why the spread keeps being so high for so long.

Anyone know?

A lot of people who want out of Gox buy bitcoin and move that to other exchanges to cash out. This artificially drives the price up on Gox.

(And there's also people who are willing to take the risk and do it the other way round for arbitrage. Apparently the market decided that arbitrage should cost about 10%.)

Quote from: leemar
But is it statistically significant Wink

I would say so, yes. MtGox has now been at 28% for three days btw. (And that's not even including all exchanges.)

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=3d

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October 09, 2013, 08:10:15 AM
 #1754

Alpaca Bob noted:

"A lot of people who want out of Gox buy bitcoin and move that to other exchanges to cash out. This artificially drives the price up on Gox."

I think this is probably true. I wonder if in turn that was driven by issues with MtGOX recent bank and/or Dwolla account issues. Perhaps after a few things resolve the exchanges will come to closer agreement.

This is just a bit of speculation based on my very limited experience. Still excited to see this economic experiment unfold, it could certainly be bigger still in the future!

Best wishes for everyones success!
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October 09, 2013, 02:35:01 PM
 #1755

This is getting ridiculous.

Why don't any of these exchange volume comparison sites make a simple, easy to read graph that shows total BTC exchanged per exchange?

Is it not as simple as summing the various currency pairs for those exchanges which support multiple currencies?
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October 09, 2013, 02:53:13 PM
 #1756

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=USD&span=24h shows you the total USD volume at all exchanges (well, all the ones Bitcoinity counts, anyway).

What are you missing?
Pie charts and area graphs.
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October 09, 2013, 05:57:09 PM
 #1757

BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $376.37 on Sept. 29, 2013, 10:23 a.m., received 276,82€ at my bank on 02/10/2013. (4 work days)

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 307.60000 € on 2013/09/29 10:23:21, received 304,52€ at my bank on 08/10/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.). (8 work days)

Previously :
BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $523.13 on July 25, 2013, 8:59 p.m., received 391,48€ at my bank on 29/07/2013. (2 work days)

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 410.02€ on 2013/07/25 20:59:09, received 405,92€ at my bank on 31/07/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.). (4 work days)
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October 09, 2013, 06:18:20 PM
 #1758

BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $376.37 on Sept. 29, 2013, 10:23 a.m., received 276,82€ at my bank on 02/10/2013. (4 work days)

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 307.60000 € on 2013/09/29 10:23:21, received 304,52€ at my bank on 08/10/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.). (8 work days)

Whaat? This would mean Gox is almost up to date regarding below-threshold SEPA withdrawals. (Or do they pick the ones that fill their quota optimally rather than process the oldest first?)
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October 09, 2013, 06:52:50 PM
 #1759

I would say so, yes. MtGox has now been at 28% for three days btw. (And that's not even including all exchanges.)

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=3d
Interresting – if you chose any other time period, MtGox comes out on top.  And it is closer to 29% than 28%.  It doesn't include all currencies on MtGox either, but the volume in the missing currencies is so low I doubt it matters.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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October 09, 2013, 07:12:58 PM
 #1760

I would say so, yes. MtGox has now been at 28% for three days btw. (And that's not even including all exchanges.)

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=3d
Interresting – if you chose any other time period, MtGox comes out on top.  And it is closer to 29% than 28%.  It doesn't include all currencies on MtGox either, but the volume in the missing currencies is so low I doubt it matters.

I apologize for finding this specific statistic interesting, Sturle  Embarrassed

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