MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[tss]

It would be tempting (and highly unethical) for insiders at Tibane (including Karpeles) to take advantage of the massive price arbitrage opportunity during this period (especially if they know that they are facing a huge "bitcoin" run or insolvency). Someone in Tokyo who works at the bank where Tibane has their corporate bank account - or better yet Karpele's own personal bank account, should check to see if there are any unusual deposits into their/his account during this period and over the next couple of weeks.  

i think it should say sorry we have nothing left and poof and go away.. unfortunately with such an easy opportunity to return to a good balance sheet i dont think gox is going anywhere.

[el_rlee]

Is nobody familiar with the Japanese law? There must be a way to force a kind of solvency check, for instance if you are a supplier and not getting your money...
Did nobody sue Gox yet? That's so unbelievable considering the amount of money into play.

[tss]

what i don't get is... how after the new announcement gox went up $20 while the average (preev) dropped $20

[whave]

Is nobody familiar with the Japanese law? There must be a way to force a kind of solvency check, for instance if you are a supplier and not getting your money...
Did nobody sue Gox yet? That's so unbelievable considering the amount of money into play.

Forget that solvency check already.

If they were near bankrupcy, do you think they COULD go to another office?

Do you guys seriously think an office contract is a short-term, cheap thing to do, and these offices are being just handed out to anyone who wants to have a warm, cozy place?

[raskul]

what i don't get is... how after the new announcement gox went up $20 while the average (preev) dropped $20

the market is ignoring gox.

[severance26]

rofl. so many different doomsaying theories here.

it WOULD be worth a visit to the local police box. im curious if they would have anything to say. they arent really the types to know about financial regulation BUT some interesting stuff would include any protesters actually registering complaints, and DEFINITELY whether the gawks has had trouble/contact/run-ins with yakuza. bitcoin being unregulated, its just the sort of stuff the yakuza enjoy. and certainly the only group representing a real "security threat".

however you'll note that there are many people living in japan (and tokyo) whose btc are stuck in gox and none of them seem to care enough to do so. i imagine the little protest stunt will be HIGHLY embarassing in hindsight. but i guess some just did it for some internet notoriety and to try some sushi.

Is nobody familiar with the Japanese law? There must be a way to force a kind of solvency check, for instance if you are a supplier and not getting your money...
Did nobody sue Gox yet? That's so unbelievable considering the amount of money into play.

Forget that solvency check already.

If they were near bankrupcy, do you think they COULD go to another office?

Do you guys seriously think an office contract is a short-term, cheap thing to do, and these offices are being just handed out to anyone who wants to have a warm, cozy place?

oooh, this guys is very smart. renting in japan is expensive and requires huge down payments. also, you need to show your ability to pay (via solvency or a guarantor). that being said, unfortunately one must accept the possibility that its office space theyve had all along...

[Zarathustra]

Mr. Sturle?

All you zombies hide your faces ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LE0KpcP05I

[severance26]

also, anyone care to copy the full text of the WSJ article about mark from Feb 17th here?

[BitPaulo]

rofl. so many different doomsaying theories here.

it WOULD be worth a visit to the local police box. im curious if they would have anything to say. they arent really the types to know about financial regulation BUT some interesting stuff would include any protesters actually registering complaints, and DEFINITELY whether the gawks has had trouble/contact/run-ins with yakuza. bitcoin being unregulated, its just the sort of stuff the yakuza enjoy. and certainly the only group representing a real "security threat".

however you'll note that there are many people living in japan (and tokyo) whose btc are stuck in gox and none of them seem to care enough to do so. i imagine the little protest stunt will be HIGHLY embarassing in hindsight. but i guess some just did it for some internet notoriety and to try some sushi.

Is nobody familiar with the Japanese law? There must be a way to force a kind of solvency check, for instance if you are a supplier and not getting your money...
Did nobody sue Gox yet? That's so unbelievable considering the amount of money into play.

Forget that solvency check already.

If they were near bankrupcy, do you think they COULD go to another office?

Do you guys seriously think an office contract is a short-term, cheap thing to do, and these offices are being just handed out to anyone who wants to have a warm, cozy place?

oooh, this guys is very smart. renting in japan is expensive and requires huge down payments. also, you need to show your ability to pay (via solvency or a guarantor). that being said, unfortunately one must accept the possibility that its office space theyve had all along...

Well the new address they gave was a virtual office, and they have been using that address in the past, so it should be easy for them to swap regardless of their financial situation.

[grifferz]

oooh, this guys is very smart. renting in japan is expensive and requires huge down payments. also, you need to show your ability to pay (via solvency or a guarantor). that being said, unfortunately one must accept the possibility that its office space theyve had all along...

Well the new address they gave was a virtual office, and they have been using that address in the past, so it should be easy for them to swap regardless of their financial situation.

My guess is that the building management and other tenants of the multi-tenant office block that has a protest outside of it got upset and Tibanne thought it wise to no longer be there, though still paying rent. Meanwhile as you say, the previous (now current) address is merely a virtual office also with no one there.

So I do not believe that the move offers any reassurance with regard to Tibanne's solvency, in fact I think that:

• Karpeles being asked point blank if he was solvent and him giving the answer that he was not permitted to discuss that
• the obvious heightening of security stance (abandoning staffed office, using virtual office address)

indicates that Karpeles anticipates an almighty shitstorm coming, not any sort of good news.

Naturally this is all complete guesswork.

[kalkulatorix]

When was the last time someone received his money via Bank transfer from MtGox?

I received my last EURs from MTGOX via SEPA Transfer on 2014-02-18. Withdraw at MTGOX was on 2014-01-17.
It took 30 days.  

[severance26]

http://www.ceruleantower.com/english/index_o1.html

gated security.

yeah, it could be a shitstorm. that wont stop people from getting as far as the gates, though. they probably have bigger problems than you give them credit for. its easy to shit on mark, he is a goof, but with the money gox has (i dont see how they could be insolvent), they surely get attention from hackers, and as i said before, yakuza.

[mp420]

When was the last time someone received his money via Bank transfer from MtGox?

I received my last EURs from MTGOX via SEPA Transfer on 2014-02-18. Withdraw at MTGOX was on 2014-01-17.
It took 30 days.  

Weird. The delay should be closer to 50 days. Was this a small sum (below 500EUR)?

[whave]

oooh, this guys is very smart. renting in japan is expensive and requires huge down payments. also, you need to show your ability to pay (via solvency or a guarantor). that being said, unfortunately one must accept the possibility that its office space theyve had all along...

Well the new address they gave was a virtual office, and they have been using that address in the past, so it should be easy for them to swap regardless of their financial situation.

My guess is that the building management and other tenants of the multi-tenant office block that has a protest outside of it got upset and Tibanne thought it wise to no longer be there, though still paying rent. Meanwhile as you say, the previous (now current) address is merely a virtual office also with no one there.

So I do not believe that the move offers any reassurance with regard to Tibanne's solvency, in fact I think that:

• Karpeles being asked point blank if he was solvent and him giving the answer that he was not permitted to discuss that
• the obvious heightening of security stance (abandoning staffed office, using virtual office address)

indicates that Karpeles anticipates an almighty shitstorm coming, not any sort of good news.

Naturally this is all complete guesswork.

But at least it's guesswork based on some rational thinking, not on overwhelming AMAGADIMSCREWED emotions. I was not aware that address is for a virtual office.

Still, all we can do is hope for the best. SEPAs are still being sent out regularly which is a pretty good sign. After all, they could pause the SEPA queue without anyone noticing to try to use the funds covering the alleged insolvency, yet they're paying "on time" (I mean 4-6 weeks of course).

[zyk]

Guys,
just be patient. Anyway, our money is blocked in their account for a while.
So why converting BTC into EURO at a so low price I don't understand ! You won't be more secured with your EURO stucked in their account. It does not make any sense.
Having money in EURO or BTC stucked in MtGox is the same !
So for God sake, stop selling BTC at these ridiculous low levels and be patient.

what do you think ? Do I miss something there ?

Yeah

you miss the fact that nobody is selling their BTC at Gox right now...not even you !

Everybody wants in to buy....so who can and is selling ?   of course.... the insiders...

what do they know what you don´t know ?....of course... Gox bankaccounts will only be accessible by laywers

and from the cayman islands....

[trdiablo]

Guys,
just be patient. Anyway, our money is blocked in their account for a while.
So why converting BTC into EURO at a so low price I don't understand ! You won't be more secured with your EURO stucked in their account. It does not make any sense.
Having money in EURO or BTC stucked in MtGox is the same !
So for God sake, stop selling BTC at these ridiculous low levels and be patient.

what do you think ? Do I miss something there ?

If you have EURO stuck in Gox you can sue them and there is a big chance that the law might do something about it.
If you have BTC stuck in Gox there is a very slim to no chance that the law will do anything about it as it is not a real currency.

[severance26]

http://www.tokyoapartments.jp/serviced-offices/Cross-Office-Shibuya-Medio+10.html
http://www.tokyoapartments.jp/serviced-offices/Executive-Center-Shibuya+4.html

the rooms and rates are probably inaccurate but id expect whatever they are paying for, its certainly MORE than the combined 9000 USD a month listed for those two office spaces.
 yeah okay so i admit... small potatoes. these kind of websites tend to hide hidden fees but honestly even if they paid 6 months up front, thats still tiddlywinks for mtgox.

i can only imagine they moved back for the IC card/gated security, as they said in their update.

[DjangoSi]

https://i.imgur.com/wnuQWZg.jpg

[FrictionlessCoin]

Guys,
just be patient. Anyway, our money is blocked in their account for a while.
So why converting BTC into EURO at a so low price I don't understand ! You won't be more secured with your EURO stucked in their account. It does not make any sense.
Having money in EURO or BTC stucked in MtGox is the same !
So for God sake, stop selling BTC at these ridiculous low levels and be patient.

what do you think ? Do I miss something there ?

If you have EURO stuck in Gox you can sue them and there is a big chance that the law might do something about it.
If you have BTC stuck in Gox there is a very slim to no chance that the law will do anything about it as it is not a real currency.

Let's discuss this for a moment.  Let's say BTC is treated as a commodity (like it is treated in a majority of places in the world).

So, let's pick a commodity,  say coffee beans.  If a warehouse that holds coffee beans goes bankrupt,  surely the owner of the coffee beans has the right to have his coffee beans returned.    Say a storage facility for gold goes bankrupts,  surely the owners of the gold have rights to the gold.

If the BTC disappears from the custodian of that BTC, then clearly that is theft.   Does not matter if its is coffee beans, gold or BTC.

This is very different from owning shares in a company.  If the company goes bankrupt then the value of shares goes to zero.  

This is very different from owning bonds or being a creditor to a company.

If the money or the BTC disappears, then Mt.Gox is criminally liable.  

What Mt.Gox appears to be doing is covering their short on BTC.   The lower price of BTC is to their advantage in many ways.  Imagine,  right now,  they can buy BTC and sell it at 4 times the value of their money,  and they can continue to do that while they maintain these prices.  It is downright ridiculous.

[jack0m]

what's that? Can you translate it?