(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[seanrarey]

Can u make a bot that starts at say X and if the value drops 2$ you buy and if it increases 4$ you sell?

Hey ,
  Do you mean a bot that will buy if the price halves and sell if the price doubles?

There is a lot that can for wrong with that, we have been discussing reverse EMA for a while that does something similar (but better) with EMA indicators. Maybe something we can pursue when we get some free development time. Got a lot going on right now .

Pablo.

I use reverse EMA strategies and they are quite a bit more logical (from a human perspective I guess) in the profit area.

As do I, and yes, they seem more logical to me.

I have not posted much about experiences with other bots in this forum, as I was not sure how appropriate it was.  I will share some results here, however, because it shows Butter it a good light.

My "manual" trading in the past was guided in part by a "reverse EMA" strategy.  I viewed "straight EMA" as more of a safe, built-in stop-loss strategy then a high-return strategy.  It then made great sense to me to have 1/2 of my BTC investments "safe" in a butter-run EMA bank while I traded the other 1/2 manually.  I admit to some shock when Butter started matching & even beating me with its trades.

Always wanting to be on the cutting edge, and fascinated with the idea of bots, I have purchased every bot made available to the public and tested it.  I am constantly looking for new & interesting bots and how to use them (love the activity and improvements from the Butter team).

Over the last month or so I have been conducting an experiment.  Three accounts were set up with equal amounts of BTC.  One account was given to Butter, the other two managed by a competing bot that shall remain nameless.  Snapshot of results:

Reverse EMA.
Poor trading results.  To be fair, I have, and am still struggling to get the bot to trade the way it works in my mind.  Not working well.    May not be the bot's fault, maybe I am not setting it up right (it is pretty complex).  In the end, the market ran-away from it, and the experiment was a loser.

RSI.
During flat or "sideways" markets, RSI is satisfying.  The more frequent trading is a thrill, but the returns were underwhelming.  There are a lot of bots out there doing this, and the margins are not great for this type of trading.  Two weeks into the experiment Butter was beating the RSI bot handsomely, then the bull-charge came.  As with reverse EMA, RSI sold and got left behind.

EMA/Butter.
The RSI bot traded dozens of times to Butters 2, but Butter still pulled ahead in the account balance.  Still, Butter is boring... can be soooo long between trades, so I left the experiment run.  Then came the bull-charge.  Butter's "safe" EMA position stayed in, rode it up and only sold when it was obviously over.  RSI & reverse EMA were so hopelessly trounced by the experiment I have since turned off the "other" bot, and transferred the funds into a Butter run account.

Butter even beat me by a good margin for the first time, I sold too soon (who knew?).

I will continue to look for and buy anything (trustworthy) people want to program.  But for now, I am here, in this forum, because nothing out there is better then Butter.

GREAT JOB GUYS, I am having a great time making money with your product.

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[vesperwillow]

I'm loving Butter. I'm really on edge looking for when it can do altcoins and other exchanges (cryptsy for example).

I was one of the folks who had some losses on the trial period, but once I kept trying the bot out and getting a better feel for it, I realized how it worked, and bought a copy. My past several trades have been profit, the bot has already paid for itself.

[seanrarey]

I think it is beneficial to all in our little community here to share as much information as possible.  So here are answers to some of the PMs I have gotten.

Q:  What tick offset are you using?

A:  Ok except tick offset.  It is really not going to affect or interfere with my trading if a lot of other people are using similar EMA & gate settings, but if we are all trying to buy/sell at exactly the same time it is going to create a sharply focused pressure point on the market and have a negative affect on our trading.

Q:  I am getting better results with settings other then what you are using, why is that?

A:  While you can get good results over quite a range, your specific testing results are affected by your tick offset.  The tick offset introduces a degree of randomness, but may also telegraph trading & bot trends from other traders.  One should avoid obvious offsets such as the top and bottom of the hour, as these obvious trade points can be skewed easily by those working to fool bots.  I recommend finding an offset that you believe would not be widely used by other traders.

If you have time on your hands you can play with offset timing and you will notice some anomalies.  You will find spots on the clock that will swing favor wildly toward and wildly away from your advantage.  This is possibly due to random luck, but as time goes by, I am finding that those "spots" persist.  This should not happen if the readings are random.  I am developing a hypothesis that what I am actually seeing is a pattern from either popular trade-trigger times, or even a single heavy-trader's trigger time.  To explain, if you and I are running similar settings and your offset is 15, then when I test using those settings I "catch" those depressions you made in the market when you traded.  This is not to my advantage, and it skews the test results away from me.  If I move my offset to 20, I may catch the sharp correction to your large trade; skewing the numbers sharply back in my favor.

Random, or pattern?  I don't know, but it sure can't hurt to find a historically "sweet" offset and use it.

Q:  I am using the same settings are you are, but I am not making a profit?

A:  Give it 30 days.

Q:  Is $30 enough in an account to make a profit?

A:  Yes, as long as the exchange will allow trades that small (I have not tried).  $30 will make you the same percentage as $30,000.  Just understand that 10% of $30 is $3, while 10% or $30,000 is $3,000.

NOTE:
If you are trading higher amounts (>$20,000), spread it across all three exchanges to maximize return (market fade).

Happy trading, I hope you all are enjoying this bull market as much as I am.

Sean

[NginUS]

Q: Is it a good idea given the insanely high price of BTC lately to buy BTC to give the bot a little more capital to work with now, or would it make more sense to wait & see if there will be an end to this rally in a couple weeks & then maybe be able to buy 1 BTC more for the bot to have to work with, just later? Might the bot earn whatever I might be able to get by waiting out the rally if I just buy now at the high prices, and let it do its thing with it?

[seanrarey]

Q: Is it a good idea given the insanely high price of BTC lately to buy BTC to give the bot a little more capital to work with now, or would it make more sense to wait & see if there will be an end to this rally in a couple weeks & then maybe be able to buy 1 BTC more for the bot to have to work with, just later? Might the bot earn whatever I might be able to get by waiting out the rally if I just buy now at the high prices, and let it do its thing with it?

A good time to buy is at the "Golden Cross"; when the bot goes from red to green.

Patience is an important part of trading.  Wait this cycle out.  It is good practice.



Sean

[NginUS]

What makes a "Golden Cross"?

Under what conditions does the bot go from red to green?

I'm too new to be familiar with these things yet, so I'd have to constantly be watching the little icon, which isn't practical. I watch a chart periodically on bitcoinwisdom.com instead. So could you share with me what kind of pattern I can be on the lookout for there so I'll know to have an educated guess as to when I should check the bot to see if it's in this condition you speak of when it's going from red to green?

I get emails when the bot buys. Should I just wait until the bot says its a good time to buy? I use btcQuick rather than the exchange to buy, but still it can be an indicator.

[seanrarey]

What makes a "Golden Cross"?

Under what conditions does the bot go from red to green?

I'm too new to be familiar with these things yet, so I'd have to constantly be watching the little icon, which isn't practical. I watch a chart periodically on bitcoinwisdom.com instead. So could you share with me what kind of pattern I can be on the lookout for there so I'll know to have an educated guess as to when I should check the bot to see if it's in this condition you speak of when it's going from red to green?

I get emails when the bot buys. Should I just wait until the bot says its a good time to buy? I use btcQuick rather than the exchange to buy, but still it can be an indicator.

Easy answer:  Yes, when Butter sends you an email that it is buying is a good time to buy more coin if your have cash.

The Golden Cross is where the EMA lines cross at the bottom of the curve.  This corresponds to where Butter buys.  The Dead Cross is the top, this is where Butter sells.

So no, you don't really have to "watch" anything if you don't want to... just wait for Butter to Email you.

[fible1]

What makes a "Golden Cross"?

Under what conditions does the bot go from red to green?

I'm too new to be familiar with these things yet, so I'd have to constantly be watching the little icon, which isn't practical. I watch a chart periodically on bitcoinwisdom.com instead. So could you share with me what kind of pattern I can be on the lookout for there so I'll know to have an educated guess as to when I should check the bot to see if it's in this condition you speak of when it's going from red to green?

I get emails when the bot buys. Should I just wait until the bot says its a good time to buy? I use btcQuick rather than the exchange to buy, but still it can be an indicator.

Easy answer:  Yes, when Butter sends you an email that it is buying is a good time to buy more coin if your have cash.

The Golden Cross is where the EMA lines cross at the bottom of the curve.  This corresponds to where Butter buys.  The Dead Cross is the top, this is where Butter sells.

So no, you don't really have to "watch" anything if you don't want to... just wait for Butter to Email you.

This is actually pretty great advice on the best times to fund your bot. I'm adding this point to our customer support wiki, if that's okay with you .

Before anyone asks, yes, we really want to release a forum/wiki for FAQ's etc. Will do as soon as we get some free development time .

Pablo.

[seanrarey]

What makes a "Golden Cross"?

Under what conditions does the bot go from red to green?

I'm too new to be familiar with these things yet, so I'd have to constantly be watching the little icon, which isn't practical. I watch a chart periodically on bitcoinwisdom.com instead. So could you share with me what kind of pattern I can be on the lookout for there so I'll know to have an educated guess as to when I should check the bot to see if it's in this condition you speak of when it's going from red to green?

I get emails when the bot buys. Should I just wait until the bot says its a good time to buy? I use btcQuick rather than the exchange to buy, but still it can be an indicator.

Easy answer:  Yes, when Butter sends you an email that it is buying is a good time to buy more coin if your have cash.

The Golden Cross is where the EMA lines cross at the bottom of the curve.  This corresponds to where Butter buys.  The Dead Cross is the top, this is where Butter sells.

So no, you don't really have to "watch" anything if you don't want to... just wait for Butter to Email you.

This is actually pretty great advice on the best times to fund your bot. I'm adding this point to our customer support wiki, if that's okay with you .

Before anyone asks, yes, we really want to release a forum/wiki for FAQ's etc. Will do as soon as we get some free development time .

Pablo.

Great idea, of course!

[KamiN]

Hi there,

I just saw this bot and read the last few pages. I do have a couple of questions:

1. The first post has your website and e-mail in an EDIT, but it's listed at "@(malware)". Is this the forum doing it? Is the site still safe?
2. I would like to test the bot out with a start of about $500 and see how it goes from there. I get the impression that it's simply "set up" with the settings (be it my own or the suggested values) and it's basically "set & forget" after that? It automatically buys/sells? Or is it a notification, e.g. it mails you when the best times are to sell/buy but I have to press the button/verify it myself?
3. I'm gonna start with Bitstamp, how did this bot do in previous spikes and (small) "crashes"? E.g. Last April when it hit >200 and then crashed, or the few hours just after silk road was shut down? What about last month, with the 100 -> 200 rise?
4. When I buy the bot, is there extra documentation available? About how the options work and what they do? I can't find that on the site currently. I'm a bit confused about what the "tick offset" option does. I saw some screenshots where it's simply at "0", so I'm not sure if that's an option that should be tweaked or not. It's not mentioned with the suggested values.

Thanks all,

[fible1]

Hi there,

I just saw this bot and read the last few pages. I do have a couple of questions:

1. The first post has your website and e-mail in an EDIT, but it's listed at "@(malware)". Is this the forum doing it? Is the site still safe?
2. I would like to test the bot out with a start of about $500 and see how it goes from there. I get the impression that it's simply "set up" with the settings (be it my own or the suggested values) and it's basically "set & forget" after that? It automatically buys/sells? Or is it a notification, e.g. it mails you when the best times are to sell/buy but I have to press the button/verify it myself?
3. I'm gonna start with Bitstamp, how did this bot do in previous spikes and (small) "crashes"? E.g. Last April when it hit >200 and then crashed, or the few hours just after silk road was shut down? What about last month, with the 100 -> 200 rise?
4. When I buy the bot, is there extra documentation available? About how the options work and what they do? I can't find that on the site currently. I'm a bit confused about what the "tick offset" option does. I saw some screenshots where it's simply at "0", so I'm not sure if that's an option that should be tweaked or not. It's not mentioned with the suggested values.

Thanks all,

Hi Kami ,
   Let me take your questions one at at time:

"1. The first post has your website and e-mail in an EDIT, but it's listed at "@(malware)". Is this the forum doing it? Is the site still safe?"

I'm not seeing this, could you post a screenshot so I can track it down please? www.Butter-Bot.com is safe.

"2. I would like to test the bot out with a start of about $500 and see how it goes from there. I get the impression that it's simply "set up" with the settings (be it my own or the suggested values) and it's basically "set & forget" after that? It automatically buys/sells? Or is it a notification, e.g. it mails you when the best times are to sell/buy but I have to press the button/verify it myself?"

The bot will trade by itself and it's best if left alone over the long term. You will get notification emails when a trade is executed or when a trade is imminent; you turn these off in the control panel.

"3. I'm gonna start with Bitstamp, how did this bot do in previous spikes and (small) "crashes"? E.g. Last April when it hit >200 and then crashed, or the few hours just after silk road was shut down? What about last month, with the 100 -> 200 rise?"

You can see this on the back testing engine with different settings, it's very easy to test and view, just download the demo, and if you have any issues with it drop me an email (Pablo@Butter-Bot.com) .

4. When I buy the bot, is there extra documentation available? About how the options work and what they do? I can't find that on the site currently. I'm a bit confused about what the "tick offset" option does. I saw some screenshots where it's simply at "0", so I'm not sure if that's an option that should be tweaked or not. It's not mentioned with the suggested values.

The demo and the purchased bot come with the same user manual, if you want to take a look at it before using the demo, drop me an email and I will send it to you.

Please do not hesitate to let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[Grinny]

1. i think it's still safe - but this question has to be answered by pablo
2. yet the bot trades automatically
3. EMA is a long term strategy based on trends. correct me if i'm wrong, but it's purpose is rather to stay safe and wait for the few big winnings than to trade fast/often. most of the time the bot will hold your money (especially when prices are rising), so small spikes will simply be ignored. when the prices go down dramatically it will sell and wait until the trend goes up again. in this case you may lose some money, but
on the long run you should be able to make some nice winnings.
4. afaik you will get a small documentation by email after buying the bot - but it's no rocket science, trust me.
tick offset i.e. means the following: your bot will check the btc prices on a given intervall (i.e. every hour) - a tick offset of "0" would mean, it checks at 10pm/11pm/12pm and a tick offset of "5" would mean 10.05pm/11.05pm/12.05pm - so you're able to optimize your strategy and get an advantage to other bots that allways trade at the same time.

if this was helpful, feel free to use my referal link when signing up for the bot (see signature) - you will get 10% off and I get a free month

best,
Grinny

[KamiN]

Grinny, Pablo, Thanks for the quick responses. Sounds very promising. I'll use your referral when I buy it Grinny, probably monday or tuesday.

Pablo, here's the screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/fNwRpC7.png

I'll drop you an e-mail for the manual. I'm currently waiting for the good ol' banks to process my transfer to Bitstamp, but they are closed (*sigh*) It'd be great to have a read over it in advance.

[fible1]

Grinny, Pablo, Thanks for the quick responses. Sounds very promising. I'll use your referral when I buy it Grinny, probably monday or tuesday.

Pablo, here's the screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/fNwRpC7.png

I'll drop you an e-mail for the manual. I'm currently waiting for the good ol' banks to process my transfer to Bitstamp, but they are closed (*sigh*) It'd be great to have a read over it in advance.

Kami,
    Thanks for the pic, I think I fixed it; that's a remnant from an old mis-label that Theymos fixed for us a long, long time ago.

Please let me know if you need anything at all .

Pablo.

[CJM1682]

hey, i am currently demoing the bot and like what i see so far. i am new to the whole financial lingo and setting ideal target markers/indicators. I have 1 question. @ two points today i received an email from the bot stating that a "buy was imminent" yet no such purchase took place am i missing something?

[Grinny]

check your bots preferences > email.
you can define weather the bot should send you an email when orders are imminent (=your threshold is shortly before triggering a buy/sell order) and/or when orders are actually triggered (=bot is buying/selling).
the 'imminent' warning makes sense in case you want to transfer additional funds to your exchange.

[CJM1682]

check your bots preferences > email.
you can define weather the bot should send you an email when orders are imminent (=your threshold is shortly before triggering a buy/sell order) and/or when orders are actually triggered (=bot is buying/selling).
the 'imminent' warning makes sense in case you want to transfer additional funds to your exchange.

so it would be safe to assume i was on the verge of hitting my threshold and than something happened where my threshold was never reached therefore never triggering a purchase?

one other question is there any plans in the future to add additional currency pairs support? such as LTC->USD ; LTC->BTC?

[Grinny]

yes, exactly.

and yes.

see pablo's post regarding v3 of the bot a few pages before.
his current agenda: creating an architecture for running an online-service for the bot --> v3 of butterbot supporting alt coins.

[papaminer]

Can it support CEX.IO ?

[fible1]

Can it support CEX.IO ?

Hi ,
  No unfortunately not yet. As Grinny said, we will first push out hosting, then V3 with Alt-Currencies, and then hopefully we can devote some time to adding exchanges .

Please let me know if you need anything at all.



Pablo.