Off-Topic

[klee]

I asked for a refund. It was ignored. I asked for a refund again. It was ignored.

I made a paypal claim asking for a refund. I was *denied*.

I upgraded it to a dispute. The terrahash site says I have it refunded, but I don't see the money in my paypal account, even as pending.

Well, this is not good. If they say, they will refund you, if you cancel before they ship, they will. Their "ignorance" (speaking in your language), as you see, just makes you more freightened, so you panikct and worse thinkgs up. Dispute as you have read allready, lasts longer to solve, but if they refund case by case, I suggest next time, to be extremelly patient.

Too much estrogen in this thread - maybe this would help some girlie men here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimidex

EDIT:
DISCLAIMER:Before you enter Bitcoin/mining world make sure you wear pants - this is not for pussies. I repeat - pussies stay the f@ck out of here!

That said you will be surprised how much I gained/lossed all these 3 years to various projects I got involved, from exchanges to mining to trading various cryptos.
Never triumphed or whined..

[atomicchaos]

Yes, this thread has definitely deteriorated to the point that it's just people complaining about it being a scam (which I'm convinced it is not, but just a very, very, very poorly run venture), those trying to get refunds, and those supporting the company with blind faith, ignoring many of the very legitimate questions and at the same time attacking those that raise a question as to the silence immediately after the pre-order was completed.

Want to know why we're here now? Because there is a lack of information coming forth on some very important questions. In the absence of credible information, people tend to go to extremes. Terrahash is definitely reading so some questions to help squash the unhappy investors and avoid the ever growing request for refunds:

- Who is making the boards?!?!?!?! Terrahash had all indication of working with BKK in messages prior to the pre-order, however now we hear from BKK that Terrahash has not contacted them at all on the development. This is somewhat of an important topic, and one which I am not willing to give blind faith to, which was why I requested a refund.

- Broken promises - Terrahash, this is a very big problem and one the is repeated quite a lot, and has led many to a lack of trust. They may seem like small items, but it all adds up to the people that entrusted a large sum of money with you

- Refunds - You clearly stated refunds would be allowed both on the message boards and on your website. Now you have the panic with people cancelling paypal funds, while you have a good portion of that money slated to go back to Cloudhashing, from your own words. That could have been completely avoided by providing basic information on the technical progress. Not answering every naysayers question, but just providing the facts on development, no matter how good or bad. That is how trust is formed. Denying refunds and changing your policy post-preorder not only damages you, but also is pointless, as you will not win any Paypal dispute since you clearly said refunds were possible.

I don't believe most of the pro-Terrahash are shills, many that paid via BTC are locked in to this transaction, so there is no other way out for them, and therefore to be positive is the only option that they have. They dislike seeing the growing negativity, as it further damages their chances of ever seeing their BTC again.

In closing, attacks from either side make the side attacking look less credible, so it might be a good place to start in clearing this thread of crap... Stop attacking on both sides and talk facts, concerns, and progress.. If you don't agree with something, offer a competing point of view without trying to diminish the credibility of the person posting. Assuming Terrahash can even start meeting some of the promises made.

I'll have my refund by mid to late July one way or another, but I'm fully vested in seeing how this turns out, and will be active with this thread and other related threads until they deliver, or disappear.  I truly hope the blind faith is rewarded, it would be very nice to be wrong about this not smelling right at this point and time.

Good luck to all!

Edit: Special thanks to Klee for providing such a great example in his message prior to mine of how to provide benefit to his investment and provide useful information related to the topic at hand.

[notlist3d]

I asked for a refund. It was ignored. I asked for a refund again. It was ignored.

I made a paypal claim asking for a refund. I was *denied*.

I upgraded it to a dispute. The terrahash site says I have it refunded, but I don't see the money in my paypal account, even as pending.

Well, this is not good. If they say, they will refund you, if you cancel before they ship, they will. Their "ignorance" (speaking in your language), as you see, just makes you more freightened, so you panikct and worse thinkgs up. Dispute as you have read allready, lasts longer to solve, but if they refund case by case, I suggest next time, to be extremelly patient.

With them it might not matter how patient you are.  During my dispute they would not respond in paypal.  Instead just let it sit there.  Claim was first time i even got a response about it, even though their response was a threat to close my claim...

[joeventura]

How can so many people not know how Paypal works?


You have 20 days from the date the dispute was opened to escalate a dispute to a PayPal claim.
Once you open the Claim, Paypal will decide the claim usually in 30 Days.


Generally buyers must wait at least seven days from the date of payment to escalate a dispute for an item not received
If you don’t resolve or escalate a dispute within 20 days it will be closed. When this deadline is approaching, we will remind you by email
A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a PayPal claim
Only one dispute may be opened for each PayPal payment
Where an item has not been received, please ensure you have given the seller enough time before opening a dispute, you have up to 45 days from the day of transaction to do this.

So like others have said, in 50 days you will have your refund and we will all be screwed or we will all have our hardware.

Can I ask that you mention the order numbers you are asking for refunds on?

[Bitcoinorama]

Bitcoinorama how is it coddling?  From what little I know they changed their refund policy without telling anyone and won't answer why.

Go to some large companies investor meeting and you'll see some mollycoddling.

As far as what they're set up for they are a business and customers should be asking questions.  If they don't answer and people get suspicious it is not out of line.  I agree that they are trying and seem to be doing a good job of it, but these last few weeks have seen some changes.

It's a start up.

It's a start-up with a very finite timeframe to succeed.

It's questionable as to whether Terrahash actually fully comprehended the response when opening sales. They appear overwhelmed. We were around page 25 when orders opened, the rest has been impatient frustrated voices. As long as Terrahash are using their time effectively and ensuring the production and logistics are ready in receipt of chip delivery then I'd forgive them, for presumably doing what you are paying them for.

When you purchase a pre-order you have to wait a period of time for receipt of goods. At no point has anyone promised it possible to answer every whim throughout the pre-order period. That may well take significant manpower. Terrahash certainly doesn't not have enough customer service for the amount of orders. Terrahash never promised customer service as a strong point.

The more people complain and spread FUD (not you FCTaiChi) and the more competitors arrive on the scene, the more anxious and likely to jump ship some of you are increasingly becoming. Especially with more power efficient chip manufacture superseding Avalon bulk chips. Terrahash will have already spent significant funds readying for production. Terrahash were already shafted by the nitwit behind cloudhashing who left them in debt and forced the, to take pre-orders. I doubt Terrahash wants to be left in huge amounts of debt due to impatience and unrealistic expectations from more random internet crazies, like Cloudhashing who cannot make decisions based on their own research and be comfortable with their choices. Terrahash certainly doesn't deserve to be blamed for other people's lack of conviction in their own decisions, when they need to acknowledge their own mistakes.

[JLM]

Hey!!! Do you think in BTC pay??
Could help a lot.

[klee]

Edit: Special thanks to Klee for providing such a great example in his message prior to mine of how to provide benefit to his investment and provide useful information related to the topic at hand.

It is kLee - so people are whining after they entered a super high risk business?! Oh boy, this is awesome.
I don't care about any strategy/policy everyone chooses. I have no tolerance in people crying being burned in an almost completely unregulated, wild wild west kind of business.

Fight your battle and take losses like a man - that's all.

[atomicchaos]

Edit: Special thanks to Klee for providing such a great example in his message prior to mine of how to provide benefit to his investment and provide useful information related to the topic at hand.

It is kLee - so people are whining after they entered a super high risk business?! Oh boy, this is awesome.
I don't care about any strategy/policy everyone chooses. I have no tolerance in people crying being burned in an almost completely unregulated, wild wild west kind of business.

Fight your battle and take losses like a man - that's all.

Thanks for your .02 Klee.

[darkfriend77]

where is the promised hashing video?

[jdape]

- Who is making the boards?!?!?!?! Terrahash had all indication of working with BKK in messages prior to the pre-order, however now we hear from BKK that Terrahash has not contacted them at all on the development. This is somewhat of an important topic, and one which I am not willing to give blind faith to, which was why I requested a refund.

There's really not much to 'work with' BkkCoins on.  He's providing an open source design for a board.  At any point between now and forever, any person or entity can take the design to a manufacturer and have it built.  TerraHash is not bringing anything to the table.    There's no need for TerraHash to contact or work with BkkCoins.

TerraHash has proven the capability to get a prototype board rapidly manufactured.   At this point, they can't do much other than source some heatsinks and tweak their case designs, until the Klondike design is finalized.

TerraHash has always stated they're simply utilizing the Klondike design and having the boards built with either 1) user chips or 2) chips from their own Avalon orders (of which they have three or four now).

Now that BkkCoins has the Klondike hashing at 300 MH/s per chip, TerraHash will probably utilize the latest design to have a board created by a manufacturer, record it hashing, and post it to their blog and here.

where is the promised hashing video?

The design was hashing good this weekend, today's Monday. Expect the video by Friday.

Shit takes time in real life.

[Igor_Rast]

- Who is making the boards?!?!?!?! Terrahash had all indication of working with BKK in messages prior to the pre-order, however now we hear from BKK that Terrahash has not contacted them at all on the development. This is somewhat of an important topic, and one which I am not willing to give blind faith to, which was why I requested a refund.

There's really not much to 'work with' BkkCoins on.  He's providing an open source design for a board.  At any point between now and forever, any person or entity can take the design to a manufacturer and have it built.  TerraHash is not bringing anything to the table.    There's no need for TerraHash to contact or work with BkkCoins.

TerraHash has proven the capability to get a prototype board rapidly manufactured.   At this point, they can't do much other than source some heatsinks and tweak their case designs, until the Klondike design is finalized.

TerraHash has always stated they're simply utilizing the Klondike design and having the boards built with either 1) user chips or 2) chips from their own Avalon orders (of which they have three or four now).

Now that BkkCoins has the Klondike hashing at 300 MH/s per chip, TerraHash will probably utilize the latest design to have a board created by a manufacturer, record it hashing, and post it to their blog and here.

where is the promised hashing video?

The design was hashing good this weekend, today's Monday. Expect the video by Friday.

Shit takes time in real life.

+1  ,

[USMCGrunt0307]

- Who is making the boards?!?!?!?! Terrahash had all indication of working with BKK in messages prior to the pre-order, however now we hear from BKK that Terrahash has not contacted them at all on the development. This is somewhat of an important topic, and one which I am not willing to give blind faith to, which was why I requested a refund.

There's really not much to 'work with' BkkCoins on.  He's providing an open source design for a board.  At any point between now and forever, any person or entity can take the design to a manufacturer and have it built.  TerraHash is not bringing anything to the table.    There's no need for TerraHash to contact or work with BkkCoins.

TerraHash has proven the capability to get a prototype board rapidly manufactured.   At this point, they can't do much other than source some heatsinks and tweak their case designs, until the Klondike design is finalized.

TerraHash has always stated they're simply utilizing the Klondike design and having the boards built with either 1) user chips or 2) chips from their own Avalon orders (of which they have three or four now).

Now that BkkCoins has the Klondike hashing at 300 MH/s per chip, TerraHash will probably utilize the latest design to have a board created by a manufacturer, record it hashing, and post it to their blog and here.

where is the promised hashing video?

The design was hashing good this weekend, today's Monday. Expect the video by Friday.

Shit takes time in real life.

Come on dude, are you serious?  How exactly do you think all these candid moment videos pop up on the net showing people doing spur of the moment stupid shit...its as simple as picking up your cellphone, hitting the record button and then posting it somewhere....hell, most phones have youtube built in to allow immediate upload and sharing.  Shit takes time to build yes but, in today's society communication is incredibly easy in a multitude of ways.

[darkfriend77]

Just sent out an email. We have secured two additional early-may orders of Avalon ASIC chips. We now have 40,000 chips (all ordered before May 16) which are enough to process all the orders that we received during our pre-order opening. If we get the Avalon chips by the end of this month, we will ship out all the orders by Mid August.

On a separate note, the test board is hashing now. I will post pics/videos tomorrow. Have a great weekend!

we have a different understanding of tomorrow ... haven't we?

[angelus359]

I asked for a refund. It was ignored. I asked for a refund again. It was ignored.

I made a paypal claim asking for a refund. I was *denied*.

I upgraded it to a dispute. The terrahash site says I have it refunded, but I don't see the money in my paypal account, even as pending.

Well, this is not good. If they say, they will refund you, if you cancel before they ship, they will. Their "ignorance" (speaking in your language), as you see, just makes you more freightened, so you panikct and worse thinkgs up. Dispute as you have read allready, lasts longer to solve, but if they refund case by case, I suggest next time, to be extremelly patient.

When I say I was ignored, I mean I created a ticket, had no response, waited 3 days, created another ticket, still had no response.

The Paypal claim is where paypal asks terrahash directly, for you.

Paypal dispute is a chargeback.

[massnerder]

Terrahash never promised customer service as a strong point.

This is a good point, and technically correct.  I think the big problem service wise is that when most people hear 'hey we will send you thing x on monday' or 'we're going to upload thing y tomorrow' they expect to get those things, or an explanation of why those things are delayed, by the deadline that the sender set for themselves.  I think that's a pretty reasonable expectation, maybe my standards are just too high?

Im perfectly happy with my terrahash purchase, except when someone tells me they are going to do something tomorrow....  Fucking do it, or at the very least let me know you are running behind.  Dont just tell me you are going to do something tomorrow, and 2 days later be like, "oh sorry about that."  Terrahash keeps missing his own deadlines, and not by a little. All I would have wanted was for him to take a few seconds and let me know whats going on with his own deadlines, that he made for himself.

Full disclosure, I am in the camp of Terrahash is a legit company.

I am also of the belief that they are legit, just better with the technical aspects than the customer service / business aspects, which really troubles me.  I don't expect incredible customer service from a small start up, but I do think people should expect some level of customer service beyond zero.  Like sending thing x or an explanation of the delay on thing x when you say you will.  That's small stuff, but still important.  I have heard nothing back from them regarding my refund tickets, and I don't really expect to given the recent developments.  I guess we will see what happens over the next ~25 days before I make a final decision to go through paypal or keep it.

[joeventura]

I believe I will have my June 2013 Terrahash order before I have my March 2013 BFL order.

How is that for confidence?

[jelin1984]

Terrahash final refund anyone or not ?

[Bitcoin Scammer]

I just added these guys to bitcoinscammers.com   Anyone who got scammed I encourage you to protect other users with telling your story. 

[jelin1984]

I think that they will be ready at August 2014

[syncer]

It´s just amazing.
can we somehow stop this fucking noise?
It's just ridiculous.
ok TH is scam, so just wait your refund and come back later to tell "Remember What I Told You" with happy smile.

TH for me is trustable, maybe i will pay for it, or maybe not.

So please stop/

Thanks