Off-Topic

[LostDutchman]

"Karma"?

It amazes me how otherwise perfectly intelligent and rational people ascribe to this superstition.

This matter aside, here is a case in point:

Christianity:

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

My $.02.

You apparently missed Bargraphic's post about Karma, which was what I was referring to.   Nonetheless, a welcome change in direction.

Oh, sorry!

For real!

No offence taken and no offence meant!

I was only reflecting on the asinity of "relgions" and superstitions as a whole and nothing personal.

Thank you for your kind rely and I'll try to do better in future.



My $.02.

[notlist3d]

So is anybody still unconvinced that this is not a scam?

Lol i was convinced when they could not put hardware together and missing deadlines within my days of refunds of papal.  They were salesmen with no r&d, production, prototyping, customer-service, and so much more.  They had to know when they could not meet first deadline and kept quiet, then released eventually a prototype hashing slow with hardware errors.

btceic i still give you huge credit taking crap, and always saying logical things about TH.  Some will say you were trolling, but honestly people i hope see now TH did not add up no matter what logic you used.

If they would have switched directions when hitting road bumps they could have made it.  But instead they were quiet.  And people vouched for them and some unfortunately took them for their word.  Knight where are you!!!!  

The following is my opinion and I'm not a lawyer and cannot prove or disapprove anything.  I am not passing this as liable/slander.  It is meant as only suggestion for thought (I make many stupid statements this could be one of them when coming up on it my mind was thinking about porn)... ok now that i have said that so i dont get my ass sued.   If you have a lawyer you might have them look into Knight, he verified chip shipments.  He i believe said he saw Amir log into 1 account and saw all the chip orders...... 20k i believe they never did purchase....  So if you can find Knight.... maybe you have something good there maybe not.  Food for thought.

Notlist.... You really should lay off of the porn. What an idiot. Number one: TERRAHASH PURCHASED 40K CHIPS! THE ADDITIONAL 20K THEY CLAIMED TO HAVE BOUGHT, BUT DID NOT, WAS IN ADDITION TO THE 40K!

I verified it and documented it. Everything I did was in good faith. I am not liable for anything in this debacle you idiot.
In addition, I changed my feelings about Terrahash when it became apparent that they were not following through with their promises in early September. In the past month, you have quoted me from July and August, which is foolish. Isn't anyone entitled to change their opinion? Oh, not when you are a dealing with a child living in their parent's basement. Things have changed with Terrahash, that is clear. I made it clear that I was not happy with them. I even advised the board against trusting in any "Gen2" avalon crap. I'm not liable for anything. I didn't tell you to make your purchase back in June. I asked everyone to think clearly and not refund back in late July/Early August. During that time frame, I thought TH was legitimate, and I think they were working in good faith during that time. I changed my mind when TH did not show any logical business sense when Bitsyncom failed to deliver. I still don't think that TH was a scam. They have made bad business decisions and are becoming a scam by default. They could have handled this differently and possibly come out ahead, but they did not. So here we are..
If TH refunds 50% of our purchases, that will verify that they got their 40K chips orders refunded from Bitsyncom. They are claiming to refund all of us with BTC, which would indicate that they are planning on getting a lot of BTC. 3128 BTC is worth $437,900 at the moment. That would certainly get close to refunding 50% of the orders.

I have dozens of close friends that are judges, and more contacts in law than you can fathom. It's my background. Advising people here to send their lawyers after me would be an exercise in futility and would waste their money. I clearly was acting in good faith when I reported what I found out by visiting TH. I did not gain anything from my trips. In regards to my "SPECIAL DEAL TO PICK UP MY BOARDS AT THEIR OFFICE WHEN READY", that was a delivery option when we bought our boards! I live 3 hours away and figured I could save money by picking them up. It was an option you could select when making a purchase. Not some special arrangement I made with them behind the scenes. You are now the first person I am placing on Ignore. What a waste of oxygen...

Bar has things well in hand in this thread. He and I are in discussions outside the board. I am working to recoup my losses. Staying away from this thread helps my blood pressure.

Well take a blood pressure pill.... your good faith seeing them log into a account with these orders could be considered worth looking into.  All I am saying is if it might be worth bringing to a lawyer (if you are having to sue for losses) seeing very few if any others got to see them actually log in and see chip orders.  Did any other member see or verify them log into a account with orders?

Again could be nothing.  I don't know you, I know i sure was not there at their offices.  As i stated was a opinion and meant for thought for those having to seek legal action.  

I am not a lawyer or wanting to be one.  I just mentioned if they have a lawyer might be worth looking at, in no way did i say to send their lawyers after you.   If you think after lawyers look into you verifying their order there is liable or them coming for you in suit.... that is a assumption you are making.  I did not say that, just put ideas good or bad out there.  

[Bargraphics]

"Karma"?

It amazes me how otherwise perfectly intelligent and rational people ascribe to this superstition.

This matter aside, here is a case in point:

Christianity:

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

My $.02.

I agree with you, I used Karma as an example but not based on my own beliefs. It has been fun watching Atomic use it for his trolling. I also have no interest in any religion of any kind.

While I'm sure it might feel nice to have some sort of conversation regarding this or any other off topic for this thread issue, this thread is for gathering information about Terrahash.

If anyone not providing additional information about Terrahash can refrain from posting that would be great.

Information Gathered so far about Terrahash:



Their Registered Agent:
CORPNET, INCORPORATED
340 N. Westlake Blvd. Ste. 210
Westlake Village, CA 91362

Office Address:
1800 Wyatt Drive, Suite 15
Santa Clara, CA 95054

Known Residential Addresses:
366 S MARY AVE
SUNNYVALE CA 94086

853 AMES AV
PALO ALTO CA 94303

--------------------------------------

PROPERTY ADDRESS    366 S Mary Ave
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
OWNER NAME    Rhyu JungWon,  Rhyu Jermsoon
OWNER MAILING ADDRESS    853 Ames Ave
Palo Alto, CA 94303

JERMSOON RHYU (60 years old)    (408) 738-8494

Jungwon W Rhyu
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jungwon
AGE: 60 years old

RELATIVES:
Cara Rhyu
Jermsoon Rhyu
Christine Rhyu
Diane Rhyu
Aejie Rhyu
Jeimsoon Rhyu

Address 1:
366 S Mary AVE
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
(650) 813-0332


Address 2:
853 Ames AVE
Sunnyvale, CA 94086


Address 3:
853 Ames AVE
Palo Alto, CA 94303
(650) 493-7160

Previous Locations:
Sunnyvale, CA
Palo Alto, CA
Los Altos, CA
Mountain View, CA


-----------------------------------------
Not Confirmed

Court Schedules
http://dockets.justia.com/search?query=Amir+Khan&state=california

Portston, Inc. v. Amir Khan, et al Has Decisions
Filed: July 8, 2009 as 3:2009cv03086
Plaintiff: Portston, Inc.
Defendants: Amir Khan and Naytab, Solutions, Inc.



Sou Kousonsanong
Amir A Khan Sr
87 Burnham Pl
Fremont, CA


------------------------------------------

CloudHashing

http://www.coindesk.com/terrahash-opens-asic-mining-preorders-loses-business/

In the meantime, the firm has lost its biggest customer to date. Emmanuel Abiodun, founder of UK-based cloud mining company Cloudhashing, has cancelled his order with the company.
Abiodun originally ordered $105,000 of equipment from TerraHash, sending $79,109.13 up front on 14th of May (for which he complains he didn’t get a receipt). This was an upfront payment, with the remainder stored in a company savings account to ringfence it. However, on June 4, he issued a formal request for a refund.

http://www.coindesk.com/terrahash-shuts-down-bitcoin-miners-upset-with-refund/

The closure leaves many out of pocket, and angry at the company. “It’s a big mess,” said Emmanuel Abiodun, founder of UK-based hosted mining firm CloudHashing, who had placed orders with the firm. He has now started legal proceedings against individuals associated with the company, he told CoinDesk.

-------------------------------------------

PayPal Refunds

If you paid via PayPal and want a refund...  LISTEN UP.

If you did not open a dispute within the 45 day window and you call PayPal... They will (9/10 times) deny you any kind of refund and say it's impossible as after 45 days their terms of service says they are not able to provide a refund.  That statement is sort of true.   If there are exceptional circumstances, PayPal WILL give you a full refund.

I got a refund from PayPal, today, for every order I placed  (If you ordered any TerraHash boards through me - you have been refunded too).

Here's how:

Call PayPal.  Get the fraud/dispute department.  Tell them you understand you are outside the 45 day window.  Tell them about TerraHash.  Tell them you and a lot of people online have been scammed by TerraHash.  Explain what TerraHash is doing and how they ave taken hundreds of thousands from PayPal users. shipped nothing, and will not reply to any contact attempts.  Ask to open a claim even if it's outside the 45 day window.   They may close your claim automatically, siding with TerraHash.  Call them back!

Especially mention the high dollar value.  Every time I dropped the amount of dollars that TerraHash took via PayPal they go get a supervisor.

If they refuse your refund, call again.  Talk to someone else.  Ask to talk to a supervisor.

If they refuse your refund, call again.  Talk to someone else.  Ask to talk to a supervisor.

I talked to a guy in the fraud department named Aaron, employee ID 45731.   He and his supervisor got my money back from TerraHash and he told me today, that he will do his best to help anyone else who can't get their money back from TerraHash.

So, PayPal tells you no?  Call again, get Aaron on the phone, tell him your story.  



If you are still within the 45 day dispute window.  Filing a dispute now will get you an extra 20 days of guaranteed refundability if TH doesn't ship, if not even more.  With no downside.   So on your 44th day, file a dispute.

[gbx]

More information on PayPal refunds:

Here is the closing statement I received from the rep that helped me with my case.  There's also an email address below that you can use to send your issue.   The issue is "Non-receipt of Goods".  You went beyond the 45 day window because it was a preorder of computer equipment.  The seller did ensure us that we would receive the equipment but there were delays.  Now you're over 90 days out and wish to obtain a refund before contacting your credit card company (assuming you funded your purchase by credit card).

Her name was "Mary" - number is "four zero two - nine five two - eight seven seven one"

I hope this information addresses your concerns and answers any questions you may have had.  You may contact me at "phone number above"  and I generally work Monday-Friday 7:00am to 3:30pm Central.
 
As always, please feel free to contact PayPal’s Executive Escalations Department at executiveoffice@paypal.com if you have any questions or concerns or if we can be of further assistance.

As I say, she re-filed my claim.  I had to wait 10 days for the buyer to provide tracking information (which they can't, because they never shipped).

Hope this helps someone.  Be persistent and courteous to these folks.  They can help, but don't give them a reason not to help you.

[gbx]

While I'm sure it might feel nice to have some sort of conversation regarding this or any other off topic for this thread issue, this thread is for gathering information about Terrahash.

If anyone not providing additional information about Terrahash can refrain from posting that would be great.

Agreed.  Please keep thoughts on religion and dogma to yourself or in the off-topic forum.  There's no place for that here.

What about taking the order spreadsheet (database) and using that as a base to obtain further information on who's obtained refunds, and who is still owed money.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248143.0

It would be good to get an order of magnitude on how many people are owed refunds.  Their method of payment (including transaction information if possible).

I wonder if Cryptoin would be willing to assist with that, or hand the spreadsheet off to someone who can add a few more columns to it.

[Bargraphics]

What about taking the order spreadsheet (database) and using that as a base to obtain further information on who's obtained refunds, and who is still owed money.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248143.0

It would be good to get an order of magnitude on how many people are owed refunds.  Their method of payment (including transaction information if possible).

I wonder if Cryptoin would be willing to assist with that, or hand the spreadsheet off to someone who can add a few more columns to it.

I have a list myself but I will not make it public unless everyone that had given me information explicitly stated they were ok with me doing so.

Not sure if Cryptoin would be available to help out
Cryptoin
Last Active:   September 07, 2013, 08:14:28 PM

Also I'm sure that most of the people that received their refund are probably away from this board as well sadly.

So far I've only heard of Credit Card and PayPal payments getting refunded from others. Most followed the repetition advice until someone escalated their claim.

[markj113]

[btceic]

/palmface /shakeshead...


TerraHash,
How do feel about Bargraphics being your spokesperson and then flip flopping around to lead the charge in a lawsuit against you? Why did you allow for so much FUD to continue during the initial phases?

Are the allegations of cloudhashing suing you true?

Do you honestly feel that you did everything you could to protect your customers from this type of scenario?

Some points to consider before accusing us of scam:
1. We stopped taking orders as soon as we had enough orders to account for the chips we ordered. If we were a scam, we would have continued taking orders and could have easily raised double the money we did.
2. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on components, heat sinks, cases, boards, cables. For people saying that its "only a few resistors", look at the BOM provided by BkkCoins. It says components cost around $23 for a K16. And this does not include the heat sinks (~$14), boards etc. For each K16, the components including the heat sink, board, power cables, etc. cost us around $45. And we were prepared to assemble around 5,000 K16s (for 80,000 chips). There goes $250,000. Why 80,000 chips? We had ordered 40,000 of our own and had at least 4 other parties who were going to get their boards assembled from us. But guess what? Tired of the delays from Yifu, they all ended up getting a refund from Avalon.
3. We spent so much time and effort trying to source the really hard to get components. You can go read the Klondike thread where everyone is discussing the shortage of the PICs, the IR3895s, and others. But we have all the components, we even overpaid to get some of them. Show me a scammer who would do that.
4. For the components that even we could not get, we invested a lot of time to search for alternates. For example, the Power Inductor 38L361C was not available anywhere, so we instead bought SPM10040T-R36M170. But the latter was not pin compatible with the former. So we ended up changing the circuit board. I will publish the updated KiCad files. Would a scammer go through all this trouble? Anyone with half a brain can answer this.

If we were a scam, we would have disappeared on June 20th.

Why going out of business?
I am really sick and tired of all the scam accusations. I appreciate all the negative criticism that the community does, resulting in catching scams in early stages in order to protect the newer members of the community. But baseless scam accusations from day one have taken their toll on our company. The FUD spread by a few members (along with the delay from Yifu) lead to a lot of refund requests. The result of which was that, if we continued with the project, we would have been left with inventory worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in our hands. And it would have been almost impossible to sell it at a price where we could even break even. Even if nobody asked for a refund, we would still have been left with about $125,000 worth of useless components (read point 4 above). But with about half of our customers asking for a refund, we would be stuck with another $350,000 worth of inventory that we couldn't have sold for more than $150,000, putting us under red for over $300,000. I am sorry, but I am not running a charity. It made much more sense to ask for a refund from Yifu and pay back as much as possible, without going into debt.

Why only a 50% refund?
With people who paid with PayPal taking a 100% refund, it leaves a lesser share for everyone else. I am sorry, but that's how it is. We do not want to be owing hundreds of thousands to PayPal. Also, with some customers contacting our bank with fraud accusations, Chase has shut down our bank accounts. In my opinion they were just looking for an excuse. They have already contacted us in the past, asking for more information about our business, just because we were a "Bitcoin related business."

Patience is a virtue
Now, you can either be content with the turnout of the whole fiasco and stop attacking me personally, and wait for your refunds. Or, you continue accusing me of being a scammer, and continue publishing my addresses publicly and tarnishing my image. Its up to you. Some of you have already done a lot of irreparable damage, not just to me but to all the TerraHash customers. And please remember, that there is only so much that I can take. If pushed into a corner, I will defend myself.

[hchc]

Some points to consider before accusing us of scam:
1. We stopped taking orders as soon as we had enough orders to account for the chips we ordered. If we were a scam, we would have continued taking orders and could have easily raised double the money we did.
2. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on components, heat sinks, cases, boards, cables. For people saying that its "only a few resistors", look at the BOM provided by BkkCoins. It says components cost around $23 for a K16. And this does not include the heat sinks (~$14), boards etc. For each K16, the components including the heat sink, board, power cables, etc. cost us around $45. And we were prepared to assemble around 5,000 K16s (for 80,000 chips). There goes $250,000. Why 80,000 chips? We had ordered 40,000 of our own and had at least 4 other parties who were going to get their boards assembled from us. But guess what? Tired of the delays from Yifu, they all ended up getting a refund from Avalon.
3. We spent so much time and effort trying to source the really hard to get components. You can go read the Klondike thread where everyone is discussing the shortage of the PICs, the IR3895s, and others. But we have all the components, we even overpaid to get some of them. Show me a scammer who would do that.
4. For the components that even we could not get, we invested a lot of time to search for alternates. For example, the Power Inductor 38L361C was not available anywhere, so we instead bought SPM10040T-R36M170. But the latter was not pin compatible with the former. So we ended up changing the circuit board. I will publish the updated KiCad files. Would a scammer go through all this trouble? Anyone with half a brain can answer this.

If we were a scam, we would have disappeared on June 20th.

Why going out of business?
I am really sick and tired of all the scam accusations. I appreciate all the negative criticism that the community does, resulting in catching scams in early stages in order to protect the newer members of the community. But baseless scam accusations from day one have taken their toll on our company. The FUD spread by a few members (along with the delay from Yifu) lead to a lot of refund requests. The result of which was that, if we continued with the project, we would have been left with inventory worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in our hands. And it would have been almost impossible to sell it at a price where we could even break even. Even if nobody asked for a refund, we would still have been left with about $125,000 worth of useless components (read point 4 above). But with about half of our customers asking for a refund, we would be stuck with another $350,000 worth of inventory that we couldn't have sold for more than $150,000, putting us under red for over $300,000. I am sorry, but I am not running a charity. It made much more sense to ask for a refund from Yifu and pay back as much as possible, without going into debt.

Why only a 50% refund?
With people who paid with PayPal taking a 100% refund, it leaves a lesser share for everyone else. I am sorry, but that's how it is. We do not want to be owing hundreds of thousands to PayPal. Also, with some customers contacting our bank with fraud accusations, Chase has shut down our bank accounts. In my opinion they were just looking for an excuse. They have already contacted us in the past, asking for more information about our business, just because we were a "Bitcoin related business."

Patience is a virtue
Now, you can either be content with the turnout of the whole fiasco and stop attacking me personally, and wait for your refunds. Or, you continue accusing me of being a scammer, and continue publishing my addresses publicly and tarnishing my image. Its up to you. Some of you have already done a lot of irreparable damage, not just to me but to all the TerraHash customers. And please remember, that there is only so much that I can take. If pushed into a corner, I will defend myself.

If you are not a scam, you would have sent me back the 360 chips that you have flat out stole from me.
End of story.

Or did you already made the boards and mining yourself? Not a scammer eh?

[atomicchaos]

/palmface /shakeshead...

Do you honestly feel that you did everything you could to protect your customers from this type of scenario?

Yes.

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

At this point, I'm thinking the 50% might be readily accepted by many, however it would be nice to open the books and explain how much you have on hand to liquidate and breakdown EXACTLY where the money went so all can make an informed decision.

[btceic]

/palmface /shakeshead...

Do you honestly feel that you did everything you could to protect your customers from this type of scenario?

Yes.

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

At this point, I'm thinking the 50% might be readily accepted by many, however it would be nice to open the books and explain how much you have on hand to liquidate and breakdown EXACTLY where the money went so all can make an informed decision.

Agreed, Amir or Justin (would be nice to know to whom we speak at this point), please open your books. Also how much was used for salary and other non asset non core purchases?

[hchc]

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

^this. Scammer or not, this is the main reason of your (TH) downfall (and everybody else with it).
I sent your numerous contacts and you force ppl to bring it all out on the public thread. It's your choice.

[justmyname]

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

^this. Scammer or not, this is the main reason of your (TH) downfall (and everybody else with it).
I sent your numerous contacts and you force ppl to bring it all out on the public thread. It's your choice.

Even with the Avalon chips you supplied. TH didn't bother to complete your order. So the way I see it. TH never intended to complete any of the orders in the time they estimated, if ever.

[hchc]

Do you think it would have been helpful to communicate a bit more sooner than this?

^this. Scammer or not, this is the main reason of your (TH) downfall (and everybody else with it).
I sent your numerous contacts and you force ppl to bring it all out on the public thread. It's your choice.

Even with the Avalon chips you supplied. TH didn't bother to complete your order. So the way I see it. TH never intended to complete any of the orders in the time they estimated, if ever.

And they held on to my chips seeing the chips value eroding everyday. They just want everybody else to goes down together with them.

[newguy05]

Some points to consider before accusing us of scam:

2. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on components, heat sinks, cases, boards, cables. For people saying that its "only a few resistors", look at the BOM provided by BkkCoins. It says components cost around $23 for a K16. And this does not include the heat sinks (~$14), boards etc. For each K16, the components including the heat sink, board, power cables, etc. cost us around $45. And we were prepared to assemble around 5,000 K16s (for 80,000 chips). There goes $250,000.

This is the only point that matters, and it's bullshit.  If you did spent all that money on components, then show us the photos of those 5000 K16s.  You cant, because you never bought a fucking thing except a few test boards.

[tilecuwi]

Hey Community,

i paid my k16 with Paypal. What is the best way of getting a refund?
Pm me pls

[btceic]

Hey Community,

i paid my k16 with Paypal. What is the best way of getting a refund?
Pm me pls

If you paid via PayPal and want a refund...  LISTEN UP.

If you did not open a dispute within the 45 day window and you call PayPal... They will (9/10 times) deny you any kind of refund and say it's impossible as after 45 days their terms of service says they are not able to provide a refund.  That statement is sort of true.   If there are exceptional circumstances, PayPal WILL give you a full refund.

I got a refund from PayPal, today, for every order I placed  (If you ordered any TerraHash boards through me - you have been refunded too).

Here's how:

Call PayPal.  Get the fraud/dispute department.  Tell them you understand you are outside the 45 day window.  Tell them about TerraHash.  Tell them you and a lot of people online have been scammed by TerraHash.  Explain what TerraHash is doing and how they ave taken hundreds of thousands from PayPal users. shipped nothing, and will not reply to any contact attempts.  Ask to open a claim even if it's outside the 45 day window.   They may close your claim automatically, siding with TerraHash.  Call them back!

Especially mention the high dollar value.  Every time I dropped the amount of dollars that TerraHash took via PayPal they go get a supervisor.

If they refuse your refund, call again.  Talk to someone else.  Ask to talk to a supervisor.

If they refuse your refund, call again.  Talk to someone else.  Ask to talk to a supervisor.

I talked to a guy in the fraud department named Aaron, employee ID 45731.   He and his supervisor got my money back from TerraHash and he told me today, that he will do his best to help anyone else who can't get their money back from TerraHash.

So, PayPal tells you no?  Call again, get Aaron on the phone, tell him your story.  



If you are still within the 45 day dispute window.  Filing a dispute now will get you an extra 20 days of guaranteed refundability if TH doesn't ship, if not even more.  With no downside.   So on your 44th day, file a dispute.



TerraHash/Amir: You tried to fuck me.  The tables have now turned.

[tilecuwi]

Thanks man!

[btceic]

Thanks man!

Your welcome, please report back here your findings for everyone's benefit.

[jamie10511]

TERRORHASH IS A SCAM

The proofs

1 They never sent hchc his chips back when they had all the time in the world to do that

2 they never communicated with updates

3 besides for knightlife99 they never proved that they had any order.  also in the official thread of all orders of zefir steamboat ect terrahash was never mentioned.  i think this is the thread  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.0   but it used to look a bit different.

4 near the end they opened up another offer 2 petahash which was clearly a scam to raise more money


There are probably more but i cannot think of more at the moment.

I think we should get a gang of guys and get some weapons make a visit to his location in the night and seriously force that amir to refund every penny he has - now that we know his address...


the only positive thing that terrorhash ever did was to not respond to paypal claims.

They may not have originally had bad intentions but if so bernie madoff was also not a scam as he also started off legitimately but when his investments went sour greed got the better and he turned into the biggest ponzi scheme. (maybe terrorhash the biggest bitcoin scam)

knightlife also made an ebay listing that i had mentioned before.   knightlife promised people 15 btc per year for only $250. on ebay.  well how can that be honest Huh  that is like giving away $1500 for 250.  each listing on ebay was for 5 units of his miners (not one unit per listing)

see here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bitcoin-BTC-virtual-miner-10-GH-s-/181191689905

see the writing in green


I guarantee that your rented miners will make you 15 Bitcoin or 660 Litecoin
(your choice) in 1 year from start of my mining operation for
each 5 units purchased.

this is definitely fraud.


anyway.  the newest brewing scam is coming from the one and only friedcat.  yes friedcat is honest but only while his business is doing well.  mark my words.  he is now mostly finished as he is still on gen 1 asics.  he boasts that he is going to add another 500th to the network very soon.  he is now promising what he cannot do see here    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3222593#msg3222593    I cannot say foreshore but i have seen companies like nokia when they started going downhill and promised the world that we are going to come back and even look at blackberry's promises.  so beware about friedcat and watch his shares tank even lower.  they should be about 0.1btc now.

anyway my hands are a bit tired

oh yes of course bar's flip flop.  well he is only a human being but look even obama flip flops about syria.  first he makes a red line then promises action.  then says waiting for congress and then invites the iran prime minister.  i mean there has never been a greater flip flop than that but thats how people work in this world and they will never admit it.
anyway i hope he sold his terrorhash items see here   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=256798.0