[ANN][ZEN] Horizen: Unbounded By Design

[Ginzink]

L'll say it again; Hey if they self claim total transparency Im still waiting to see their spending reports.

!!!!!Zen team is directly subject to laundering money and market manipulation with their zksnack privacy tool and dev fund reports missing!!!!!

Fair,make those reports,audits them, and I'll shut up. If not trade zen at your own risk, not compatible with KYC cause privacy and if they failed audits then trading might just stop one day or another and get delist/team get screw and its a shitting time.

On what they're working on.  They don't owe us a damn thing in regards to the money they are paid AS A COMPANY.  They only answer to the IRS.  PERIOD.

Get a life dude.

You can take your KYC crap over to some CENTRALIZED coin.  We're DECENTRALIZED + PRIVATE here buddy.

I can see now, you're not Zooko in a spoof account.  He would not be stupid enough to say such crap.

here we go personnal insult when you get lack of argument/reasonning. Enjoy your ponzi with money laundering 

The privacy feature is welcomed not only by criminals. I dont care much about it, but i trust my government though
But as to it being possible to launder money since it is anonymous, should we ban cash? Cash are even more anonymous, but alot of people seem to avoid that part.

[etoque]

L'll say it again; Hey if they self claim total transparency Im still waiting to see their spending reports.

!!!!!Zen team is directly subject to laundering money and market manipulation with their zksnack privacy tool and dev fund reports missing!!!!!

Fair,make those reports,audits them, and I'll shut up. If not trade zen at your own risk, not compatible with KYC cause privacy and if they failed audits then trading might just stop one day or another and get delist/team get screw and its a shitting time.

On what they're working on.  They don't owe us a damn thing in regards to the money they are paid AS A COMPANY.  They only answer to the IRS.  PERIOD.

Get a life dude.

You can take your KYC crap over to some CENTRALIZED coin.  We're DECENTRALIZED + PRIVATE here buddy.

I can see now, you're not Zooko in a spoof account.  He would not be stupid enough to say such crap.

here we go personnal insult when you get lack of argument/reasonning. Enjoy your ponzi with money laundering

The privacy feature is welcomed not only by criminals. I dont care much about it, but i trust my government though
But as to it being possible to launder money since it is anonymous, should we ban cash? Cash are even more anonymous, but alot of people seem to avoid that part.

Never say privacy mean laundering money ,but both with core team spending reports missing it point to a real possibility, plus Combined with high degree of hype,and delayed feature,and barely useless feature(node doing nothing except building a ponzi hype for now)...

We're not into walt disney,those thing happen frequently

[dmwardjr]

here we go personnal insult when you get lack of argument/reasonning. Enjoy your ponzi with money laundering 

You're full of shit too!

You continue to ignore the following and want to accuse someone of something to throw the argument away from something you continually ignore:

So, here it is ONCE AGAIN:

I'll say AGAIN:  It would be different if we all were buying stock in a company or an ICO.  If that were the case, then yes, we should get quarterly reports of how they manage company funds.  However, ZEN was NEVER an ICO, it was NEVER pre-mined and it was NEVER a stock.  It's a damn currency AND MUCH MORE!  Your bias is getting NOWHERE in this thread.

As for AUDIT:  ZEN is subject to an audit at any time the Internal Revenue Service demands.  ZEN is a company subject to such audits periodically.  You're a useful idiot.  Plain and simple.

ABOVE was your main complaint or gripe or beef; whatever you want to call it.

YOU LOSE!  Plain and simple.

You simply want to point to another stupid argument because you KNOW you lost the main reason for you being BANNED.

[dmwardjr]

Never say privacy mean laundering money ,but both with core team spending reports missing it point to a real possibility, plus Combined with high degree of hype,and delayed feature,and barely useless feature(node doing nothing except building a ponzi hype for now)...

We're not into walt disney,those thing happen frequently

You still don't get it...

ZEN is ran like a privately owned company.  It is NOT a public company with public stock answering to the SEC and subject to audits by the SEC and/or stock holders.  Why?  Because there are no public stock holders.  I imagine there are private stock holders within the company but that's none of our damn business who owns how much PRIVATE stock within their company.  I know, cause I own my own damn S-Corporation with my own PRIVATE stock because I'm a PRIVATELY owned company with full ownership of all stock certificates.  I can sell my stock PRIVATELY to others interested in part ownership of my company if I wanted to.  However, this is something you cannot seem to soak into that biased brain of yours.

HOWEVER, the owners of ZEN [Like myself and my own company] are subject to audits from the Internal Revenue Service.  That's all we have to answer to in regards to HOW and WHERE our money goes.  PERIOD...  You're just a damn hard headed asshole who doesn't know how to reason and think logically.  Why?  Because you keep pushing something you don't understand.

Those of us who mine and/or purchase ZEN believe in the company (ZEN), its product with its projects and its future.  We do NOT own any stock in ZEN to have say-so over what THEY should do with THEIR money.  However, it would behoove Developers of ZEN to do what's best for the project and carry out it's plans made transparent to all in order for them to succeed and prosper as a company.  Just as it would also behove me to keep my product up to snuff and viable in an ever competitive market so clients will TRUST, BELIEVE and BUY my product.  

Got it?  I doubt it; because you're pissed off for being banned from Discord and prove your bias by spewing nonsense about stuff you know absolutely nothing about.  OR, you're telling lies in the hope most in this forum will not understand how ZEN Corporation works and how they are subject to audit by the I.R.S. and not those of us who purchase their coins and believe in their project.

[CryptoWaffle]

Really? Care to explain to me why Zen has more nodes than Bitcoin? Or why IOHK partnered with Zen. Why the popularity in increasing over the past few months?

probably because 8.5% of block reward going through marketing and hype,paying high fee to get listed here and here and shill how zen is accepted by everyone while anyone could accept shit if they pay the price lol.

also centralized node had no utility at all except giving free money in the idea of buying more node(if this is not a ponzi..) eventually handfull of people will control all zen market

You only have a vendetta for being banned from Discord and no logic; only bias.

ZEN is far above and beyond what ZEC will EVER be.  PERIOD.

not sure why you picked ZEC. Not a very good reference IMO.

[theRo]

Can we ban that etoque-FUD-boy from this thread?

[etoque]

Can we ban that etoque-FUD-boy from this thread?

Lol go ban me that gonna prove how your narrow-mind is and an alterate freedom of speech culture with this one, keep lamboing like tron or verge plebs   real cancer of crypto.

@dmwardjr Crypto is a commodity(get that in your head,crypto IS commodity),so Zen become a public company since its listed on public exchange under KYC regulation(know your customer),with his own internal economy,marketing,paid employed,building node as incentivizing to make people into mining and get zencash foundation money at the very end(8.5%). Like a company ! you'll have to answer and prove your act a day or another, all your spitting is pure bullshit right now    By the way DGC is a public company crypto holder of zen  You are a public company what ever you could self claim yourself(look another self claiming from a dev member,you have PhD in self claiming shit?) this or that, SEC put crypto into commodity.PERIOD..



I got the zen hard manipulation being the scene,since pbc you guys always been good to manipulate and play people with market,I hate your lack of transparency and the lack of humility from self claiming everything when this coin just plainly have nothing man,you turn out to be a real verge/tron shit hole too. 99% axing on marketing and hyping instead of development PERIOD

now you hyping supernode,like last may,buy fast its coming !(remember they was suppose to come beta in may lmao ?) then everyone will be deceive to learn they not gonna earn anything from their super useless centralized node before Q4(and hey ! maybe later too) that are just here to ponzi the demand factor cause the lack utility this coin have. Period.......

This coin had real potential last years,look like its gone into a hype scheme too this one.


again without 8.5% dev spending report this coin is directly subject to laundering money and heavy Inside manipulation

again without 8.5% dev spending report this coin is directly subject to laundering money and heavy Inside manipulation

again without 8.5% dev spending report this coin is directly subject to laundering money and heavy Inside manipulation


 period.....

[theRo]

blah blah blah

period

just sell your coins and leave a thread. what is the point for you being here ?

[LeGaulois]

etoque you're seriously confusing decentralized cryptocurrency with the stock option. Is your problem only with the transparency regarding the funds? If yes then, what don't you understand from what dmwardjr told you 3-4 times already? Instead, you are desperately trying to find another argument to discredit Zen

[MedaR]

Wow..Getting ban from their discord for genuinely asking 8.5% of dev fund audits quaterly reports

lie lie and lie plus no free of speech

take care of this one guys.

So far ''most transparent and most secure coin'' self claimed is totally bullshit,node doesn't protect or do anything for the chain/network(we see it with 51% attack) yet except being a ponzi . And transparence is just for twitter bot statistic lmao dev fund are totally hidden since +1 years and nobody ask for it when they spend so much time taking picture partying with chicks on bogota beach or dubai beach(sic,place in the world where laundering money is strongest and predominant )

Once you were great supporter what happened? Please give me your discord nick and I will check what happened..

Nodes Are not protect against 51% attack and this was not a secret.

Node operators will soon receive 20% and this will reduse posibility of an future 51% attacks - drasticly!  Team now watchig closely every block! This will fix situation for good - > https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-leads-the-fight-against-the-51-attack/

I don't see how this Team is not transparent? You are revolted and angry, please calm down.

[MedaR]

cause they aren't paying to get 'accepted' force accepted =/= accepted, This is done to purely hype zen and make people buy at higher rate without any fundamental. Plus nobody know how much of their 8.5% dev fund they use to get 'listed' without any reports,transparency word selfclaimed is just here to hype market

In less than 1 years zen get into overhyped category shitcoin

In many cases agreements with partners are strict and we are in obligations not to talk about this! Anyway it is unethical to discuss about this..Policy of Zen Team is no to talk about price nor to hype events, best example is ninja listing on Coinomi..

[MedaR]

Really? Care to explain to me why Zen has more nodes than Bitcoin? Or why IOHK partnered with Zen. Why the popularity in increasing over the past few months?

probably because 8.5% of block reward going through marketing and hype,paying high fee to get listed here and here and shill how zen is accepted by everyone while anyone could accept shit if they pay the price lol.

also centralized node had no utility at all except giving free money in the idea of buying more node(if this is not a ponzi..) eventually handfull of people will control all zen market

By this analogy many coins including BTC would be accused for the same crime! Which is absurd and it is not truth!

Marketing and hype are different terms. In many cases we listen community requests, but we are not in position to talk about agreements while they are in preparation nor after.  


Ponzi scheme

is a form of fraud in which a purported businessman lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors using funds obtained from newer investors.[2] Investors may be lead to believe that the profits are coming from product sales, stock growth, or other means. A Ponzi scheme is able to maintain the illusion of a sustainable business as long as most of the investors do not demand full repayment and are willing to believe in the non-existent assets that they are purported to own, and there continue to be new investors willing to contribute new funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

[dmwardjr]

@dmwardjr Crypto is a commodity(get that in your head,crypto IS commodity),so Zen become a public company since its listed on public exchange under KYC regulation(know your customer),with his own internal economy,marketing,paid employed,building node as incentivizing to make people into mining and get zencash foundation money at the very end(8.5%). Like a company ! you'll have to answer and prove your act a day or another, all your spitting is pure bullshit right now    By the way DGC is a public company crypto holder of zen  You are a public company what ever you could self claim yourself(look another self claiming from a dev member,you have PhD in self claiming shit?) this or that, SEC put crypto into commodity.PERIOD..

Who gives a damn about ZEN being a commodity.  Many of us here say it's a "currency."  Many here believe it's both.  What the hell does that have to do with the FACT that ZEN is a PRIVATE (not public) company who is subject to audit at any time from the I.R.S.

Yes, ZEN is making 8.5% return FOR THEIR PRODUCT.

I MAKE BETTER RETURNS FOR MY "PRODUCT."  However, my PRODUCT is not sold as much or as often as ZEN's PRODUCT and therefore ZEN makes more money than I do.  

The point is:  I DO NOT HAVE TO TELL "THOSE WHO BUY" MY PRODUCT A DAMN THING ABOUT MY FINANCIAL PROFITS, LOSSES, EXPENSES, ETC...  NOT A DAMN THING...  PERIOD!!!  NEITHER DOES ZEN HAVE TO TELL OTHERS "WHO BUY THEIR PRODUCT (ZEN)" A DAMN THING ABOUT THEIR "PRIVATE" BUSINESS DEALINGS IF THEY DON'T WANT TO.  ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS MAINTAIN A GOOD PRODUCT IN WHATEVER WAY "THEY" DEEM ACCEPTABLE TO KEEP "THEIR" PRODUCT VIABLE IN A COMPETITIVE MARKET.  IT BEHOVES THEM TO INVEST THEIR TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY "WISELY" TO MAKE THEIR PRODUCT (ZEN) AS VIABLE AND COMPETITIVE AS POSSIBLE IN THE CRYPTO SPACE SO THOSE OF US WHO CHOOSE TO BELIEVE AND TRUST THEIR PRODUCT WILL "BUY" THEIR PRODUCT FOR IT'S SERVICES OR MERELY TO INVEST FOR FUTURE RETURNS ON THAT INVESTMENT.  PERIOD...

I DON'T HAVE TO TELL ANYONE WHO BUYS MY PRODUCT ABOUT ANYONE OR ANY COMPANY I DO BUSINESS WITH TO IMPROVE MY PRODUCT.  I DON'T HAVE TO GIVE DETAILS ABOUT OTHER BUSINESS DEALINGS WITH OTHER BUSINESSES TO IMPROVE MY PRODUCT.  I CAN SAY WHAT AND WHY I'M HAVING ANOTHER BUSINESS DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE MY PRODUCT IF I SO CHOOSE.  ZEN, DID THIS FOR TRANSPARENCY BUT THEY WERE NOT "REQUIRED" TO DO SO.  WHY? BECAUSE WE'RE BOTH "PRIVATE" COMPANIES.  THE "ONLY" INSTITUTION MY COMPANY AND ZEN CORPORATION ANSWERS TO IN THAT REGARD IS THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.  PERIOD!!!

ZEN, was transparent about hiring other businesses to assist in their product because the company(s) they hired to improve their product are VERY REPUTABLE COMPANY(s); which improves the ZEN brand in my opinion.  It's like they hired a CONTRACTOR that's excellent at what they do in order to improve their product.  In fact, one company they hired has a team devoted totally to projects for ZEN and no other company.  Do they have to give details into how much they paid those companies to improve their product or how they are improving it?  Hell no!  It's totally up to ZEN to reveal what details they wish to reveal [If any] in regards to improving THEIR product.  PERIOD!!!

How about opening your own damn business, hire an accountant and LEARN SOMETHING for once instead making a damn fool of yourself TRYING to convince others about something you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about.  

If you have paid attention at all to interviews with representatives of ZEN on YouTube and Twitter, you would KNOW that ZEN is ran like a private company BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY.  They have expenses they pay and report to the IRS.  They receive payroll as employees and pay payroll tax along with other taxes [such as Social Security] to federal and State institutions.  The owners can also make DRAWS from the business account for themselves in order to pay less in taxes instead of receiving their full pay in the form of payroll; which would result in more taxes paid.  

Bottom line:  ZEN is a PRIVATE company and they don't have to tell us a damn thing if they don't want to.  However, they tell us what is necessary in order to attract people and institutions to THEIR product, mission and objectives.  

If YOU choose to remain biased and YOU choose to not be open-minded to gain an understanding into what ZEN is required to do, that's YOUR problem; NOT ZEN's.  If you don't agree with them being a PRIVATE company and not revealing how they invest and/or spend their 8.5% dev fee in every possible detail [Including financials] in order to make an impact in the crypto space and the world, then find yourself another damn coin.  It's that simple.

[MedaR]

@etoque

Can you tell me your exact discord handle?

[dmwardjr]

not sure why you picked ZEC. Not a very good reference IMO.

The main reason I chose ZEC as a comparison is because they too are a PRIVATE company with patents and trademarks.

They too have a dev fee.

They too are a privacy coin with similar algorithm.

They too answer to the I.R.S.

Etc... similar to ZEN in many ways in regards to HOW they are operated and who or what entity(s) they report to.

[puwaha]

Can we ban that etoque-FUD-boy from this thread?

No, we shouldn't.  Having intelligent discourse on this thread is infinitely better than people posting that "this is a great project, and it will increase in price one day and we will all have lambos."

If those things happen then great.

[puwaha]

Who gives a damn about ZEN being a commodity.  Many of us here say it's a "currency."  Many here believe it's both.  What the hell does that have to do with the FACT that ZEN is a PRIVATE (not public) company who is subject to audit at any time from the I.R.S.

Why don't we just say that Zencash is a digital token that allows you to participate on the Zencash network... just like the legal notice here:  https://zencash.com/assets/files/ZenCash_LEGAL%20MEMORANDUM.pdf

It has properties of a currency, and it's value is based upon market demands, and the amount of effort put into mining new tokens.

[AlexHrap]

Dear developers, tell me please do you now have any bounties of the zencash campaign( twitter, facebook, signature bitcointalk)? Thanks in advance for the answer.

[TheHas]

2 merits sent. 

 

Awesome! Now time for me to share smerits with other useful altcoin posts

[dmwardjr]

Who gives a damn about ZEN being a commodity.  Many of us here say it's a "currency."  Many here believe it's both.  What the hell does that have to do with the FACT that ZEN is a PRIVATE (not public) company who is subject to audit at any time from the I.R.S.

Why don't we just say that Zencash is a digital token that allows you to participate on the Zencash network... just like the legal notice here:  https://zencash.com/assets/files/ZenCash_LEGAL%20MEMORANDUM.pdf

It has properties of a currency, and it's value is based upon market demands, and the amount of effort put into mining new tokens.

Thanks!

I will refer to it as such in the future; while also mentioning it's "properties" as a token.

Merit sent.