[ANN][ZEN] Horizen: Unbounded By Design

[MedaR]

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Only legitimate address is myzenwallet.io; DO NOT input your private address anywhere!

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[dmwardjr]

Are you saying that the NSA has a backdoor into every device?

Yes, that's what a lot of the hoopla was about with intel chips having been found to have a chip within a chip of sorts designed specifically for the NSA to be able to drop in on you without having to use your password.  That's why Russia has gone as far as to begin making their own chips to go in their own devices instead of buying chips from Intel and AMD.

Did you not hear about this in the news about a year or two ago.  That's the reason Intel stock took a big hit during the time this was made known to the public.  I want to say Snowden released that information on Wikileaks as well.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/09/intel-promises-fix-chip-flaw-left-billions-devices-vulnerable/

I didn't have to hear it in the news to KNOW this was occurring.

Eh... iOS code at Apple goes through rigorous tests to make sure that it's not backdoored or compromised.  Unless Apple want a backdoor to exist... it doesn't just appear out of thin air.

The back door is there just for Apple and for whom Apple allows to use the backdoor.  If you want to Trust Tim Cook's Globalist Cabal ass, be my guest.

What are you talking about here?  What is a "metallic current?"

There's TWO (2) DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALTERNATING CURRENT.  Meaning, THEY BOTH ALTERNATE BUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

Longitudinal Current flows in the SAME direction on two conductors (Tip and Ring) to Ground.

Metallic Current flows in OPPOSITE directions on two conductors (Tip and Ring) and NOT to Ground.

The Tip and Ring is the name of each conductor of a twisted pair used in wire line telephone.  Where did the term "Tip and Ring" come from?  If you watched the Telephone Operator on Andy Griffith at that old switch board with cords; she had a cord with plugs on each end that looked similar in shape to the plugs you see on the end of headphone cords.  These cords had a TIP that was Grounded and a Ring around the tip with voltage on it for switching purposes.

Hmmm... this sounds made up.  AC current is converted to DC current to run a computer.  If there was a signal present on the AC current, it would be destroyed in the AC-to-DC conversion.  And second... computers don't respond to a signal unless there is a hardware device that can interpret and process the signal.  No device exists in your standard computer, and it certainly doesn't exist in your AC-to-DC converter.

That's where you're wrong, Sir.  I'm a Transmission Engineer and have taught engineering design of the outside plant to Outside Plant Engineers and Telephone Technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles since July 27, 1997.  I've been in the industry since 1984.

Even ADSL modems use both Longitudinal and Metallic current in it's transmission of data.  Why the hell do you think you can still have internet without dial tone caused by a hard short on your twisted pair going to your house?  A "HARD" short creates TWO Metallic paths.  However, You can still have excellent internet with your ADSL modem with that hard short on the line.  You're subject to have no voice transmission but will still have excellent internet transmission with a HARD short.  WHY?  Because LONGITUDINAL CURRENT isn't studying a short.  Longitudinal Current flows on each conductor past that short to ground.  As long as there is capacitance to ground; longitudinal current can flow on that conductor until the capacitance to ground ends.  

I'm NOT going to give a detailed course on here explaining how the conversion from longitudinal currents on the power line can be used to see DATA transmitted in a modem LONGITUDINALLY.  POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) used to be strictly Metallic Current.  Now, in the age of VOIP (Voice of Internet Provider), the voice is also transmitted LONGITUDINALLY; NOT METALLICALLY through CLEC's (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) but metallically through most ILEC's.

But again,  I'm not going to explain this to you nor do I have to.  If you choose to be naive, that's your choice.  Not mine...  Most of the surveillance done on copper wire is done with Longitudinal Current.  SOME is done with Metallic Current over plain old telephone service but not as much as it used to be.

[dmwardjr]

Again... there is no signal modulation happening across power lines.  A computer has no physical capacity to do so without a modem being covertly added.  And at that point, why bother with trying to send signals across a power line?  You can just send them wirelessly to a transceiver on the outside of a house.

Look, Sir.  You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe.  BOTTOM LINE:  I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about.  You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making.  IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.

[dmwardjr]

How would you propose to solve the problem?

That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that.  If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract.

Bottom Line:  I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off.  I have yet to be convinced.

[dmwardjr]

Moving to a blockDAG should allow us to collapse the difficulty to a point where single GPU solo mining is possible once again. This has been talked about for 8+ months now and has always been the mid term solution we're aiming for.

The recent decision simply means that we aren't willing to risk a drop in hash by shifting parameters.

The real solution to decentralise mining is and almost always has been the blockDAG, that's why it's a fully funded project that's already well underway.
Rowan Stone

Is there a link to further detail on what you mean by creating/moving to a 'blockDAG'? Had a look on google on what it is but there isn't much that is concise - interested in what it means for Horizen perspective.

The recent announcement was only focused on not shifting the algorithm despite asics, which is why you see frustration on this forum. I didn't see any detail about a blockDAG protocol that would somehow allow single GPU solo mining down the track. If this was explained, you could allay some concerns.

I mean, if you look at this article from just last week, it details Horizen's commitment to ASIC resistance and the blockDAG protocol as two separate things: https://www.finextra.com/pressarticle/75156/zencash-rebrands-as-horizon

Quote: In collaboration with established partners, Horizen plans to research and develop a ZenVault wallet, blockDAG protocols for significantly increased scalability, and ASIC mining resistance.

So is a blockDAG protocol related to asic resistance? And if so, how?

I've determined the guys at ZEN are doing nothing more than spending a LOT of money on marketing ploys while acting like politicians [Riding the fence to TRY to please both sides] while having NO REGARD for the GPU community who got them to where they are today.

They have PROVEN to me they only give a damn about their precious marketing of a coin creating promises THEY CANNOT KEEP without implementing certain things I have yet to see implemented.  I'm NOT going to tell them what they need to do in order to keep their promise of privacy either since they have absolutely NO REGARD for the community.

I was asked a few months back to give an unbiased review of ZEN but I told them I have to do some research into their projects.  As I dug deeper to see what goals they had in mind; I was like, "Damn, they have a hell of an undertaking if they expect to do what they are promising."  They sure as hell don't want me to give a review now because it WOULD be a negative review.  They have yet to PROVE to me how they will avoid government surveillance BEFORE a customer's data ever gets on their precious blockchain.

[MagicSmoker]

Look, Sir.  You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe.  BOTTOM LINE:  I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about.  You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making.  IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.

I thought you were full of crap, too, but after reading your explanation above I see you are just using obscure terminology. The more generally accepted terminology is "common mode current" for what you are calling "longitudinal current" and "normal-" or "differential-mode current for "metallic current."

BTW, I'm none too pleased with the direction ZEN is taking these days, too, so thanks for speaking up.

[dmwardjr]

Look, Sir.  You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe.  BOTTOM LINE:  I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about.  You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making.  IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.

I thought you were full of crap, too, but after reading your explanation above I see you are just using obscure terminology. The more generally accepted terminology is "common mode current" for what you are calling "longitudinal current" and "normal-" or "differential-mode current for "metallic current."

BTW, I'm none too pleased with the direction ZEN is taking these days, too, so thanks for speaking up.

Yes, the terminology you're using is normal lingo in electronics.  I'm using terminology specific to transmission in communications and transmission of Power on power lines.

[ilan13]

I am as today officially out of Horizen (Horrific-Zen) I don't support projects that do not support their community.
Just turn off my 2 secure nodes and pointing my rigs to Ravencoin and Monero, selling all my zen and disconnecting from this blog.
Moreover, if all GPU miners turn off their secure nodes it will show the community discontent.

farewell!

[dmwardjr]

I am as today officially out of Horizen (Horrific-Zen) I don't support projects that do not support their community.
Just turn off my 2 secure nodes and pointing my rigs to Ravencoin and Monero, selling all my zen and disconnecting from this blog.
Moreover, if all GPU miners turn off their secure nodes it will show the community discontent.

farewell!

Nice to see someone with "PRINCIPLES;" unlike the founders at ZEN who have no principles.  What REALLY bothers me is how one of the founders talked TONS of people into investing in GPU's to mine ZEN and support his project; THEN disrespects them and their investment by not going ASIC Resistant.  

It's quite clear they are more concerned with the consistent flow of revenue coming in each month from Dev Fees than they are about the GPU miners (COMMUNITY) who supported them and got them going.  ZEC founders/developers did the same damn thing.  I wish them luck getting disciples to go around marketing ZEN like their GPU miners were doing.  Their "COMMUNITY" will now consist of a few ASIC miners and manufacturers of ASIC's and maybe a few speculators.  As for as any expectation of REAL SUBSTANTIAL GROWTH, that expectation is GONE.  I see a LOT of their so-called "COMMUNITY" moving over to Monero.

[puwaha]

Yes, that's what a lot of the hoopla was about with intel chips having been found to have a chip within a chip of sorts designed specifically for the NSA to be able to drop in on you without having to use your password.  That's why Russia has gone as far as to begin making their own chips to go in their own devices instead of buying chips from Intel and AMD.

Did you not hear about this in the news about a year or two ago.  That's the reason Intel stock took a big hit during the time this was made known to the public.  I want to say Snowden released that information on Wikileaks as well.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/09/intel-promises-fix-chip-flaw-left-billions-devices-vulnerable/

I didn't have to hear it in the news to KNOW this was occurring.

Spectre and Meltdown are CPU design flaws having to do with the lack of security in out-of-order instructions.  There is no "chip within a chip".  Any article that would write that... has no fundamental understanding of the problem.  Spectre and Meltdown can affect any CPU with out-of-order instruction processing, unless the OS takes specific measures to prevent it.  That includes Intel, AMD, ARM, and many other smaller players.  So you are saying the NSA infiltrated all of these companies and specifically told the computer scientists who developed out-of-order instruction processing back in the 1990s... for the express reason to "drop in on you?"  That's a long, long game... and that's not what happened.

It was simply a design flaw that was found to be exploitable.

The back door is there just for Apple and for whom Apple allows to use the backdoor.  If you want to Trust Tim Cook's Globalist Cabal ass, be my guest.

Ok... if you say so.

There's TWO (2) DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALTERNATING CURRENT.  Meaning, THEY BOTH ALTERNATE BUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

Longitudinal Current flows in the SAME direction on two conductors (Tip and Ring) to Ground.

From your description, this is called direct current.  Alternating current by definition reverses polarity and thus direction periodically.

Metallic Current flows in OPPOSITE directions on two conductors (Tip and Ring) and NOT to Ground.

I'm pretty sure you know that if you have two opposing currents they cancel each other out based on the combined amplitudes right?

The Tip and Ring is the name of each conductor of a twisted pair used in wire line telephone.  Where did the term "Tip and Ring" come from?  If you watched the Telephone Operator on Andy Griffith at that old switch board with cords; she had a cord with plugs on each end that looked similar in shape to the plugs you see on the end of headphone cords.  These cords had a TIP that was Grounded and a Ring around the tip with voltage on it for switching purposes.
[/b]

Lol... yes I'm aware.  My wife worked at a lawyer's office where they still had a manual switchboard.  I was fascinated by this.  I'm aware of what tip and ring are.  I got a degree in electrical engineering.

Hmmm... this sounds made up.  AC current is converted to DC current to run a computer.  If there was a signal present on the AC current, it would be destroyed in the AC-to-DC conversion.  And second... computers don't respond to a signal unless there is a hardware device that can interpret and process the signal.  No device exists in your standard computer, and it certainly doesn't exist in your AC-to-DC converter.

That's where you're wrong, Sir.  I'm a Transmission Engineer and have taught engineering design of the outside plant to Outside Plant Engineers and Telephone Technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles since July 27, 1997.  I've been in the industry since 1984.

I'm not wrong.  Signals are useless without something to modulate them and demodulate them.  Tell me... what device do you have in your computer right now that can modulate a usable signal across a DC current (that only flows in one direction mind you)... back to your AC/DC converter (power supply), and then re-transmit that signal on an AC current where it can be demodulated by those covert NSA folks you worry about?

Even ADSL modems use both Longitudinal and Metallic current in it's transmission of data.  Why the hell do you think you can still have internet without dial tone caused by a hard short on your twisted pair going to your house?  A "HARD" short creates TWO Metallic paths.  However, You can still have excellent internet with your ADSL modem with that hard short on the line.  You're subject to have no voice transmission but will still have excellent internet transmission with a HARD short.  WHY?  Because LONGITUDINAL CURRENT isn't studying a short.  Longitudinal Current flows on each conductor past that short to ground.  As long as there is capacitance to ground; longitudinal current can flow on that conductor until the capacitance to ground ends.

You kind of just proved my point.  Signal modulation and demodulation require a device that can do so.  You need a modem to do so.  There is no magic device that can do that from your computer unless it is specifically built to do so.

I'm NOT going to give a detailed course on here explaining how the conversion from longitudinal currents on the power line can be used to see DATA transmitted in a modem LONGITUDINALLY.  POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) used to be strictly Metallic Current.  Now, in the age of VOIP (Voice of Internet Provider), the voice is also transmitted LONGITUDINALLY; NOT METALLICALLY through CLEC's (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) but metallically through most ILEC's.

I'm glad, because honestly, I think you are confused.  I'm sure you are great at your job though, but just remember... signal processing doesn't just magically happen.

But again,  I'm not going to explain this to you nor do I have to.  If you choose to be naive, that's your choice.  Not mine...  Most of the surveillance done on copper wire is done with Longitudinal Current.  SOME is done with Metallic Current over plain old telephone service but not as much as it used to be.[/b]

I challenge you to describe how any type of signal would be able to run in the opposite direction against a DC current, survive a transformation into AC current... none of which is possible... and somehow do this without a modulator in the first place.  That's not naivety... that's science.

I promise you... the NSA has much easier ways to spy on you.

[puwaha]

Again... there is no signal modulation happening across power lines.  A computer has no physical capacity to do so without a modem being covertly added.  And at that point, why bother with trying to send signals across a power line?  You can just send them wirelessly to a transceiver on the outside of a house.

Look, Sir.  You can choose to believe whatever the hell you want to believe.  BOTTOM LINE:  I've been in this business for over three (3) Decades [In and out of the military] and I KNOW what the hell I'm talking about.  You're NOT QUALIFIED to even make such FLAT STATEMENTS you're making.  IF you don't even know what Longitudinal and Metallic currents are, YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO COMMENT.

You have no idea of my background.  Your statements about the NSA being able to spy on you in the way you described are incorrect no matter your qualifications.

[puwaha]

How would you propose to solve the problem?

That's why I get paid $1,600 to $2,000 a day (8 hours) plus expenses; to answer questions like that.  If solving a more serious issue over a longer period of time, the charge can be more with contract.

Bottom Line:  I've been keeping my mouth shut; waiting to see how ZEN was going to pull this off.  I have yet to be convinced.

It's a community project... so feel free to contribute if you can.

[luckydoky]

It's a community project... so feel free to contribute if you can.

That's the whole point, it' s a community project that betrayed its community... Why would he (or anyone else that was part of this community) want to help anymore...

[dmwardjr]

Spectre and Meltdown are CPU design flaws having to do with the lack of security in out-of-order instructions.  There is no "chip within a chip".  Any article that would write that... has no fundamental understanding of the problem.  Spectre and Meltdown can affect any CPU with out-of-order instruction processing, unless the OS takes specific measures to prevent it.  That includes Intel, AMD, ARM, and many other smaller players.  So you are saying the NSA infiltrated all of these companies and specifically told the computer scientists who developed out-of-order instruction processing back in the 1990s... for the express reason to "drop in on you?"  That's a long, long game... and that's not what happened.

It was simply a design flaw that was found to be exploitable.

The point I'm making is they KNEW the design flaw was there all along.

[dmwardjr]

The back door is there just for Apple and for whom Apple allows to use the backdoor.  If you want to Trust Tim Cook's Globalist Cabal ass, be my guest.

Ok... if you say so.

Yes, I say so.

[dmwardjr]

There's TWO (2) DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALTERNATING CURRENT.  Meaning, THEY BOTH ALTERNATE BUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

Longitudinal Current flows in the SAME direction on two conductors (Tip and Ring) to Ground.

From your description, this is called direct current.  Alternating current by definition reverses polarity and thus direction periodically.

Listen dude, you're acting like you know something you don't know a DAMN thing about.

Alternating current DOES reverse direction periodically; changes direction over time; changes rapidly in magnitude over time.  It most certainly does.

The point is there are TWO (2) different types of alternating current.  THEY BOTH ALTERNATE but in different ways.

Power Influence is best known or described as longitudinal current when it's radiated from the power lines into linear and non-linear devices.  The current on the power lines (longitudinal current) alternates at a rate of 60 cycles per second.  There are also harmonics of 60 hertz flowing on the power line.  Those harmonics can be both even and odd harmonics.  However, most of the even harmonics are cancelled out due to non-linear devices.  Which means the odd harmonics are more prevalent on the power lines and in the magnetic fields radiated from the power line.

One cycle (1 hertz) longitudinal will flow the SAME DIRECTION on the two conductors (Tip and Ring) from the Central Office out to the customer AND THEN BACK from the customer two the Central office.  That OUT to the customer from the office and then back to the office from the customer was ONE HERTZ (1 cycle).

One cycle (1 hertz) metallic will flow in opposite directions on both conductors and NOT to ground like the power company longitudinal currents do.  For example:  One cycle (1 hertz) metallic will flow from the negative side of the battery in the Central Office onto the Ring OUT TO the customer; through the customers equipment and back to the central office on the Tip THEN ALTERNATE back on the Tip OUT TO the customer; through their equipment and back on the Ring to the negative side of the battery in the office.  THAT WAS ONE CYCLE (1 hertz) METALLIC.

Dial tone alternates at 440 Hz or 440 cycles per second.  Meaning, it flows on the ring out to the customer and back to the office on the tip; THEN ALTERNATES back onto the tip to the customer and back to the office on the ring 440 times; for a total of 440 cycles (440 hertz).

That was ONLY an example.

You're TRYING to ACT like you know something you don't know a DAMN THING about.  The thing is... very few people [Even in electronics] are aware of two different types of longitudinal current; unless they understand how power influence radiated from the power line is induced into other components and can convert into a metallic current that we call NOISE.  That NOISE (Metallic Current) can affect TRANSMISSION.  This is why it's so important to have a METAL SHIELD around conductors to have Power Influence (Longitudinal Current) flowing 180 degrees out of phase from the power lines on the shield so they cancel each other out and reduce the NOISE (Metallic Currents) on every tip and ring and in other components.

Again, THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE OF MANY THINGS involving TRANSMISSION of alternating currents.  Whether those currents flow longitudinally or metallically.

Just STOP acting like you know something you don't know a damn thing about.

Here's a photo FROM A MANUAL I WROTE to illustrate:  THIS MANUAL has been used by AT&T since 1997.

[dmwardjr]

Lol... yes I'm aware.  My wife worked at a lawyer's office where they still had a manual switchboard.  I was fascinated by this.  I'm aware of what tip and ring are.  I got a degree in electrical engineering.

Then SINCE you have a degree in electrical engineering, you SHOULD know if you do NOT know your circuit, how it works, it's electrical requirements and WHY it has those requirements, YOU WILL BE LOST (dumbfounded) when trying to identify, locate and/or repair a trouble.

Right now, you are TRYING to argue with me about TWO particular characteristics of alternating current that EVERY electrical engineer SHOULD know.  Either you had a TERRIBLE teacher or you didn't pay attention.  Knowledge of something and actual application of that knowledge are two totally different things.  Apparently, you did and/or don't have the knowledge to even APPLY what I'm telling you.

[dmwardjr]

That's where you're wrong, Sir.  I'm a Transmission Engineer and have taught engineering design of the outside plant to Outside Plant Engineers and Telephone Technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles since July 27, 1997.  I've been in the industry since 1984.

I'm not wrong.  Signals are useless without something to modulate them and demodulate them.  Tell me... what device do you have in your computer right now that can modulate a usable signal across a DC current (that only flows in one direction mind you)... back to your AC/DC converter (power supply), and then re-transmit that signal on an AC current where it can be demodulated by those covert NSA folks you worry about?

So, you're telling me the components in a computer do not use signals between components to tell it what to do?  You know what binary code is right?  Binary code is transmitted within components in a computer in the form of voltage for a "1" and no voltage for a "0."  Frequencies represent PACKAGES of "1's" and "0's" in ADSL.

CAN'T DC CURRENT BE SWITCHED ON FOR A DAMN ONE (1) AND OFF FOR A DAMN ZERO (0)?

YES, IT CAN.  It's called PULSATING DC.

Again, JUST STOP MAKING A DAMN FOOL OF YOURSELF.

As for explaining the other stuff to you, that will cost you and the ZEN TEAM SOME DAMN MONEY.

[dmwardjr]

You kind of just proved my point.  Signal modulation and demodulation require a device that can do so.  You need a modem to do so.  There is no magic device that can do that from your computer unless it is specifically built to do so.

There is equipment on the power line to actually ACT AS THE DAMN MODEM, DUDE.

Also, EVER HEARD of SMART APPLIANCES?  The power company has plans to shut off devices in the future if they think you're using too much power with that device.  At least that's what globalist/environmentalist snowflakes want.

The power company would NOT need your damn modem (internet) to shut off that appliance.  They can shut it off communicating with it through the damn power line in the house.  The smart meter acts as a modem.  The NSA and CIA have devices they can connect to the power line to act as a modem.  YOU JUST DON"T GET IT, DUDE.

Just STOP...   lol

You're making a damn fool of yourself.  You're simply fortunate most people do not know this.  Which means they are unaware you are making a fool of yourself.

[dmwardjr]

I'm NOT going to give a detailed course on here explaining how the conversion from longitudinal currents on the power line can be used to see DATA transmitted in a modem LONGITUDINALLY.  POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) used to be strictly Metallic Current.  Now, in the age of VOIP (Voice of Internet Provider), the voice is also transmitted LONGITUDINALLY; NOT METALLICALLY through CLEC's (Competitive Local Exchange Carriers) but metallically through most ILEC's.

I'm glad, because honestly, I think you are confused.  I'm sure you are great at your job though, but just remember... signal processing doesn't just magically happen.

Actually, you're the one confused and do not even realize it.  You do not have the knowledge to even realize it.  What a shame...