Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[QuestionAuthority]

I have seen this Bible quote many times, and first started thinking about it in detail many years ago, well before the Internet was a possibility.

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Revelation 13:16-17)
...

Bwahhhhahahaha!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)

That's creepy............... and unencrypted.

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[pwi]

My best friend refuses to hear about Bitcoin due to fundamental beliefs like the OP mentions. I'm not going to take the time to dust off my copy of the good book, so I'll use the devil's bible; Google.

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name." Rev 13: 16-17.

Some that ascribe to this doctrine infer this will be the one world currency, without which one would be unable to make purchases of goods or sell in the marketplace. Rather than stomp on individual doctrine or belief, I'll just make a quasi-logical argument while granting the zealot that their beliefs about a one world government and currency are true. Beginning an argument any other way just loses the target audience by insulting them on a primal level. Understand, it is hard enough to explain Bitcoin to those whose minds are not cluttered by images of an angry preacher in a shiny suit, or those dancing with snakes to demonstrate faith.

Bitcoin is not likely to become centralized under a single government's control. If something akin to Bitcoin is issued in the future by a coalition of countries, and its use mandated in order to participate in commerce; this would fit the bill of the referenced passage. Bitcoin is more likely to be the anti-Antichrist currency under this model with the above assumptions made. There are more places that mandate the use of MasterCard/Visa than those that mandate the use of bitcoins.

Many fundamental religious folks thought that barcodes were to be the mark of the beast. Then it was the magnetic strips in credit cards. Smart cards were the next logical step for those preaching the times of Revelation were upon us. Not many modern Christians believe that any of those things are devilish and make use of them daily without fear of being cast from Heaven.

Bitcoin is a foreign concept to many mainstream cohorts. Now, channel your inner Bible thumping hellfire and brimstone evangelical Christian in say North Florida, North Georgia, backwoods Mississippi/Arkansas, or the mountains of East Tennessee. Now hear these words: computer based currency, fast easy transactions worldwide, crypto-currency with no central authority. You can kind of understand their position and fear (yeah me neither).

Since SR and gyft.com are the only places of any consequence that mandate the use of bitcoins; I fail to see the limited logic even from the religious person's perspective. Logic would further dictate that Bitcoin or some variant of decentralized crypto-currency would be the trade vehicle of choice for those left behind in the event of a rapture, apocalyptic, anti-Jesus, mid/post-tribulation scenario.

It is the centralized crypto-coin these guys should fear. It's this coin that many of them will fully support in the end, if they really believe. You'd probably be better of trying to convince them of a pre-tribulation doctrine in which they will be Raptured prior to being forced to take any marks on the right hand or forehead. 

According to scripture: Jesus will return like a thief in the night. The anti-Jesus will appear as an angel of light and speak with great persuasion. Many fundamentalists fail to believe what their mind cannot understand in the cloudy backdrop of years of sermons and generations of societal mind washing. The irony is that the mind can't truly understand the fundamentals of Christianity or many other world faiths. That's why it's called faith. Fear is often stronger than faith. Both are strong motivators for action and avoidance behaviors.

Good luck talking to your friend. I have been unsuccessful in my Bitcoin proselytizing efforts thus far.           

[pwi]

I'm going to attempt to put everything in perspective (bitcoins, the bible, this particular topic, etc) and boil it all down to a convenient little nugget with just this one post. 

Let's say that the guy who originally wrote this section of the bible (like any observant person) understood that whoever controls the monetary system controls people overly, and said as much. Whatever he originally wrote got interpreted and translated a few major times, more or less by fruitcakes, and we're left with the bizarre edition we have now, although the original idea is roughly the same.

Let's also say that this forum is already half full of topics pointing out many, genuinely viable vectors of takeover of bitcoin by the current (or new) power elite.

Let's also say that with current technology, marking or implanting yourself to be able to spend and accept money without any tokens or externalities as a matter of convenience (or fear or "national security") is very easily achieved. This would give control of the population at least an order of magnitude higher to the monetary system controllers than what exists now, if everybody was doing it.

Let's say the current power elite have control of the biggest mass media FUD machine ever seen in the history of the earth, bombarding most everybody with FUD and misinformation all the time and convincing the stupid of whatever they want.

Let's say that there are a lot of stupid people and not a few ambitious, powerful control freaks.

As far as actually realizing this bizarro Revelations bible thing with bitcoins, I guess it all boils down to how mainstream bitcoin gets and how many stupid people there are marking or implanting themselves and how strong the ambition and power of the control freaks is.

That's about all I got.

There you go putting religious texts into historical and logical perspective. This just doesn't make much sense to the target audience - the religious fundamentalist.

The locusts are coming (http://www.cicadamania.com/where.html) in the same year that Bitcoin is on an astronomical trajectory in both value and adoption. I scare. You scare?

Sarcasm off.

[crumbcake]

There you go putting religious texts into historical and logical perspective. This just doesn't make much sense to the target audience - the religious fundamentalist.

The locusts are coming (http://www.cicadamania.com/where.html) in the same year that Bitcoin is on an astronomical trajectory in both value and adoption. I scare. You scare?

Sarcasm off.

Religious zealots, Bitcoin zealots...

[BitChick]

Many fundamental religious folks thought that barcodes were to be the mark of the beast. Then it was the magnetic strips in credit cards. Smart cards were the next logical step for those preaching the times of Revelation were upon us. Not many modern Christians believe that any of those things are devilish and make use of them daily without fear of being cast from Heaven.    

I still think that barcodes will be used as the mark of the beast.  Each barcode has 666 hidden in it already.


 
There are two lines at the front, the middle and the end that are not given a "number" but they are equivalent to what is a "6".  So are bar codes evil? The bar codes are not evil but they could be used for evil!  I will not put one on my hand or forehead.  Hey scripture even says to "calculate the number" so it will obviously need to be something that is not obvious and the fact that they are universally used makes it really easy to integrate a system worldwide where everyone has to have this tattooed on their body. Call me crazy, but it is something to think about.

That said,  I do think that many Christians will be opposed to using Bitcoin out of fear but I feel strongly that Christians should be more interested in it than anyone.  There might come a day when it will become difficult to buy and sell anonymously (when we are forced to have a number on our hands or heads) and then Bitcoin could be very useful.

Personally, I have posted this already but will reiterate, I think that Bitcoin will succeed and because of that governments will lose "control" and that will force them to do something drastic.  Perhaps the "drastic" thing will be a mark on each person to keep track of who is buying and selling?  It is certainly something to think about.

[KeyserSoze]

I still think that barcodes will be used as the mark of the beast.  Each barcode has 666 hidden in it already.

Thankfully the world is just about through coddling medieval superstitious nonsense. Childish notions like these are refuted over and over yet some choose to wallow in ignorance. No one knows if there is a Creator but we do know the Bible, and every entity in man's entire pantheon, are false. Take the thumb out of your mouth and grow up before Zeus strikes you with a thunderbolt.
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/barcode.asp

[BitChick]

I still think that barcodes will be used as the mark of the beast.  Each barcode has 666 hidden in it already.

Thankfully the world is just about through coddling medieval superstitious nonsense. Childish notions like these are refuted over and over yet some choose to wallow in ignorance. No one knows if there is a Creator but we do know the Bible, and every entity in man's entire pantheon, are false. Take the thumb out of your mouth and grow up before Zeus strikes you with a thunderbolt.
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/barcode.asp

If you are so sure you are right then I have a simple challenge for you.

Pray one little prayer: "God if you are real, show yourself to me."

It sound simple, yet so many people I talk to are unwilling to do that one simple little thing.  

What is the risk?  If they are right there is nothing to lose in doing it and they can even tell me that they tried it and nothing happened.  If they are wrong though?  I guess that is where the difficulty is.  They might have to admit that there is a God and that they do not have it all figured out.  That is not even worth the risk of praying one little prayer so they laugh at me and say I am stupid and go on.  

I saw the snopes article BTW.  The three sets of lines are not actually sixes?  Well like they say, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck.  So, it looks like a "6" and there are three of them and they are on every single bar code.  These are things that might cause someone to think there is some truth there.  Revelation said it needed to be "Calculated".  I calculate that there are three hidden sixes on bar codes.  Of course, people do not want to believe it.  I know most will be perfectly fine putting a bar code on their hands and foreheads and will say some Christians are crazy for not doing it.  But I am just saying it is something to think about.  You don't have to agree with me.

[cardcomm]

If you are so sure you are right then I have a simple challenge for you.

Pray one little prayer: "God if you are real, show yourself to me."

It sound simple, yet so many people I talk to are unwilling to do that one simple little thing.  

What is the risk?  If they are right there is nothing to lose in doing it and they can even tell me that they tried it and nothing happened.  If they are wrong though?  I guess that is where the difficulty is.  They might have to admit that there is a God and that they do not have it all figured out.  That is not even worth the risk of praying one little prayer so they laugh at me and say I am stupid and go on.  

This is a great, simple concept. Pray for proof, and if you don't get it - well there obviously no God. But there's a problem. Say a person prays for proof - lightening doesn't strike, nothing noticeable happens, and they say "Ah Hah! I knew there was no God".

Then there was my case. I "believed" in God, but what had he done for me lately? Nothing. Then I got ill. Very Ill.

My family was told I had little chance of survival. Although I seldom if ever prayed for myself during this time, many prayer groups were called upon by my relatives. Miraculously, I recovered, only to get cancer a couple years later.

Same thing this time - I was near death in the hospital. I was 6'1" and weighed 110 lbs. But thanks again to the power of prayer I recovered.

Then it happened AGAIN - this time a major heart attack. Doctors said I only survived initially because of my coincidental proximity to an EMS unit when it happened. They told my family I had no chance of survival without stints, but I was too weak for the procedure. They had to wait for me to gain strength. I lost strength instead. The doctors said they had to try the procedure, but I'd almost certainly not survive it. Needless to say, I'm still here.

For me, God is just as much a reality as is the wooden desk I'm typing this message at. I can touch the desk, and pound it with my fist till it hurts. I can't even SEE God, much lest touch him. But God is no less a reality IMO.

Now back to the original quote. I challenge you to pray for proof of God, in a serious way. I'm pretty sure you won't get it that second, but I'd bet every bitcoin I have that you'll eventually get your proof

[2112]

Religious zealots, Bitcoin zealots...

Yeah, the convergence between those two groups is uncanny.

Immediately after I joined the forum I was struck by how oftern the people professing themselves atheist/agnostic kept slipping into using the theological phraseology.

After a while I seem to recognize the similarities in motivation: both groups seem unsecure and search for a stable foundation.

The first group tends to find them in the Bible, the second in the limit of 21 000 000 coins. Both call them "set in stone", although the stone is just a language: Aramaic/Greek/Hebrew in the first case, C++ in the second.

I'm going to insert the following quote just because it is a nice mixture of being both succint and sarcastic.

I'm more concerned with the religion OF bitcoin.  Their are FAR too many people who have near apocalyptic visions of how BTC will transform the world and bring torment an damnation upon governments, banks, Keynesians and everyone who has ever mocked them.  While the BTCers will be enraptured in wealth and splendor and rule the world at the right-hand of Satoshi.  Sound familiar???

And since this is weekend I can post relevant Youtube links:

Tribulation by Dennis Brown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUD91sG3Ut0

Tribulation by Ras Nyto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVG_OLd6upo

Both links are reggae, but different songs.

[BitChick]

Now back to the original quote. I challenge you to pray for proof of God, in a serious way. I'm pretty sure you won't get it that second, but I'd bet every bitcoin I have that you'll eventually get your proof

Yes.  It is best if the person prays in a serious way. I was just thinking that praying at all is a good start.   I guess there are probably people who would do it with the plan of proving a point.  But I have found that even a prayer that was prayed in a not so serious or even vindictive way God can respond to.  As for those who pray with sincerity but are disappointed in His slow or seemingly lack of response,  I do think many people give up on God when He does not respond as quickly as they want.  Or they expect God to answer all their prayers like he is Santa Claus in the sky not understanding that He is not our personal puppet to control.

Your story is great, BTW.  It sounds like it has been a difficulty journey, but one that has brought you much wisdom and understanding and greater faith.

[Rassah]

I still think that barcodes will be used as the mark of the beast.  Each barcode has 666 hidden in it already.

Thankfully the world is just about through coddling medieval superstitious nonsense. Childish notions like these are refuted over and over yet some choose to wallow in ignorance. No one knows if there is a Creator but we do know the Bible, and every entity in man's entire pantheon, are false. Take the thumb out of your mouth and grow up before Zeus strikes you with a thunderbolt.
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/barcode.asp

If you are so sure you are right then I have a simple challenge for you.

Pray one little prayer: "God if you are real, show yourself to me."

It sound simple, yet so many people I talk to are unwilling to do that one simple little thing.  

OK... I did that... Was something supposed to happen?

Also, how come you don't believe in Santa Claus?

[Rassah]

Then there was my case. I "believed" in God, but what had he done for me lately? Nothing. Then I got ill. Very Ill.
...
 Miraculously, I recovered, only to get cancer a couple years later.
...
Then it happened AGAIN - this time a major heart attack.

Holy crap, god must really hate your ass. He keeps trying to kill you, but those meddling doctors keep saving you. No wonder god hates biology and medical science!

[cardcomm]

Then there was my case. I "believed" in God, but what had he done for me lately? Nothing. Then I got ill. Very Ill.
...
 Miraculously, I recovered, only to get cancer a couple years later.
...
Then it happened AGAIN - this time a major heart attack.

Holy crap, god must really hate your ass. He keeps trying to kill you, but those meddling doctors keep saving you. No wonder god hates biology and medical science!

LOL! That's actually pretty funny. But I figure if God wants you dead, that's pretty much it. You HAVE read the Old Testament haven't you?  hahaha

[cardcomm]

I still think that barcodes will be used as the mark of the beast.  Each barcode has 666 hidden in it already.

Thankfully the world is just about through coddling medieval superstitious nonsense. Childish notions like these are refuted over and over yet some choose to wallow in ignorance. No one knows if there is a Creator but we do know the Bible, and every entity in man's entire pantheon, are false. Take the thumb out of your mouth and grow up before Zeus strikes you with a thunderbolt.
http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/barcode.asp

If you are so sure you are right then I have a simple challenge for you.

Pray one little prayer: "God if you are real, show yourself to me."

It sound simple, yet so many people I talk to are unwilling to do that one simple little thing.  

OK... I did that... Was something supposed to happen?

Also, how come you don't believe in Santa Claus?

Do you know that something DIDN'T happen?

[cardcomm]

Then there was my case. I "believed" in God, but what had he done for me lately? Nothing. Then I got ill. Very Ill.
...
 Miraculously, I recovered, only to get cancer a couple years later.
...
Then it happened AGAIN - this time a major heart attack.

Holy crap, god must really hate your ass. He keeps trying to kill you, but those meddling doctors keep saving you. No wonder god hates biology and medical science!

LOL! That's actually pretty funny. But I figure if God wants you dead, that's pretty much it. You HAVE read the Old Testament haven't you?  hahaha

BTW, I DO give credit to the doctors as well for saving me. But when the Doctors say's your not gonna make it, your in Gods territory then.

[Adrian-x]

I introduced bitcoin to a friend and they started talking about how the bible predicts a currency take over and its the start of the Revelation.

Has anyone else run into this problem?

I think he is referring to the USD, there's no evidence to suggests BTC will take over the world, if the prediction has any chance of applying to BTC and being believed this would be a sure sign to start investing in BTC now.

So where is the problem?

[phillyj]

Money, among other things, is amoral. People lie, cheat, and kill over these things. That makes the person immoral, not the thing. It seems everyone is an extremist these days. You would think that with greater access to information and greater freedom, people would think instead of adopting other people's views unquestionably. Truly a shame.

[just_me]

By grace we are saved, and not by works.

Through faith in jesus christ, we are saved from the judgment of the law.

The wages of sin is death.

But Jesus Paid the price on our behalf.

God accepted Jesus sacrifice, and there is no longer anything owing.

We are now free to live our lives, so as unto God.

With Jesus Christ as intercessor between us and God.

Therefore we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Imanuel, Lamb of God, Annointed Savior, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

And we give thanks to God.

[acceptance2]

lol religion. What is this, year 2?

+1

[QuestionAuthority]

By grace we are saved, and not by works.

Through faith in jesus christ, we are saved from the judgment of the law.

The wages of sin is death.

But Jesus Paid the price on our behalf.

God accepted Jesus sacrifice, and there is no longer anything owing.

We are now free to live our lives, so as unto God.

With Jesus Christ as intercessor between us and God.

Therefore we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Imanuel, Lamb of God, Annointed Savior, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

And we give thanks to God.

So Jesus Christ is your heaven broker. Does he get 6% of your soul upon close of escrow?