Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[BitChick]

Do you realize that based on your own argument of risk, you personally should subscribe to every religion on the planet? What if any one of them is "right" and Christianity is "wrong"? Quick, you better get started joining them all.


There is ZERO archaeological evidence that the bible holds any more truth than a good Stephen King novel. As for historical, perhaps, insomuch as someone added likely embellished historical events of note into it. Even if the bible is filled with writings about actual events or existing cities it doesn't mean any of the details are true, or further, that it has anything at all to do with the existence of a god.


This is only an attempt to shoehorn your personal goals into religion. Textbook hypocrisy. Your god has COMMANDED you through the bible to give all your possessions away, and has let you know in no uncertain terms that people with material wealth do not get into Heaven, yet you persist with bitcoin because you're driven by greed. Nothing wrong with that except, again, you should re-evaluate your beliefs because they do not align with your actions. You are ignoring your god, defying him, and that is the one unpardonable sin in Christianity.

Proof Every Christian Goes to Hell
1) The only irredeemable sin against your Lord thy God is denying him, the Holy Spirit
2) To deny is to refuse to admit truth of or to refuse to give that which is requested
3) Any sin is to deny god of his commandments
4) Therefore, even one sin results in a soul that cannot be forgiven. Sin once, and you're going to hell whether you repent or not. Since Christians are "born into sin" they're automagically damned to hell and cannot be forgiven.

Wow.  There is so much in your response.  I can tell you really feel strongly about your beliefs for sure.

I just want to comment on a couple things that I quoted above.

As for subscribing to every religion on the planet?  Well, I was talking with a Hindu at the beach once.  He mentioned how he believed all paths were valid so why should he believe in Christianity.  Of course I believe it to be true, but I told him a couple of things.  First was that most religions are about "earning" your way by doing good works.  Christianity is the opposite.  It is about realizing that in ourselves there is really nothing we can do to be good enough.  We are sinful in nature and need a savior.  Also, if all paths are valid then a person should defninitely choose Christianity.  The Bible says that there is only one way to eternal life and it is through Jesus Christ.  So, to be safe, the wise thing to do would be to choose that path.  The guy I was talking to was logical enough to say that I was beginning to persuade him.  I am not sure what he chose to do.  It is up to him of course.  God does not force us to choose Him.  That is the beauty of the gift of Free Will.

We are not commanded to give away our possessions.  In one story, Jesus told someone who was bragging about what a great person he was and how he had followed the "law" and Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give to the poor.  The statement was meant to tell him we are never really perfect and there is always more we can do.  There were many rich followers of Christ who did great things.  The LOVE of money is the root of evil.  Money, in itself, is not the root of evil.  There is a difference.

Why do you say there is no archeological evidence?  Most of the cities in the Bible are accounted for.  Most of the people, Kings etc, have mention outside of scripture that they lived.  There is extensive evidence.  Unfortunately, our schools like to ignore so much of this for some reason.  It is the foundation of our world's history though.  One of my favorite books is The Wall Chart of World History by Edward Hull.  It is very interesting to see how much of our history is accounted for in the Bible.  http://www.amazon.com/The-Wallchart-World-History-Revised/dp/076070970X  

As for your logic that all Christians will go to hell.  The unpardonable sin you speak of is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  The reason I believe this Sin is so dangerous, it is the Holy Spirit that draws us to God.  If we make fun of Him, or tell Him we do not want anything to do with Him, the Holy Spirit will respect that and leave us alone.  But with that comes the problem that there will be no more opportunities to have a change of heart.  That is why it is so dangerous.  Our own pride will take over and we will no longer have the ability to even hear God speak at all.  

The Bible says we are all sinners.  So I am not sure what your logic is that we are all going to Hell is?  If you admit you have sinned, accept God's free gift of salvation, he is faithful to forgive us and give us eternal life.  That is the message in a nutshell.

I really do not mind hearing your opinions though.  Please understand that I respect that you have strong reasons for them.  

[crumbcake]

KeyserSoze,  you seem to have much "faith" that you are right and that all religion is fraud.  Can you really be 100% sure you are right? 

One chooses to live by fact and reason, or one chooses superstition. There is no faith involved in the assumption gravity will continue to work tomorrow. It is a fact within our shared reality, as much as we can have constants without devolving into a semantic argument over whether the existence of gravity is a fact.

Where to start.  No.  You're wrong.  There's plenty of faith involved in the assumption that gravity will work tomorrow.  After you clear the hurdles like "WTF *is* gravity" (no, general relativity notions like "curvature of space-time" are handy visualization aids, but not much more), you have to have faith in all kinds of notions: Persistence, the nature of temporality, the certainty that your thought is subject to extraneous physical phenomena... I could keep this list going, but you're bored already & i'm too.  Remember, even faith in universal non-contradiction ~(A & ~A) is just ... faith.  Hard proof is harder to come by than you think, so...  It's not semantics, you're just much too comfortable with your own assumptions.

[QuestionAuthority]

There is a concept called "original sin" among Christians. Do you believe in that?

[KeyserSoze]

The Bible says that there is only one way to eternal life and it is through Jesus Christ.

Every holy text purports to be the one true way. Unfortunately your Jesus never existed. This might have been a clue to you something was wonky with the religion.

God does not force us to choose Him.  That is the beauty of the gift of Free Will.

Your god attempts extortion to gain believers. He's a wise guy. Probably owns a waste disposal company.

As for free will, if you believe your god is omnipotent then you have no free will. If you don't believe he is omnipotent then he is not a god.

We are not commanded to give away our possessions.  In one story, Jesus told someone who was bragging about what a great person he was and how he had followed the "law" and Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give to the poor.  The statement was meant to tell him we are never really perfect and there is always more we can do.

There are literal commandments and then there is the bible which is apparently your god's teachings for how to live. You may not want to say "commandments" but everything taught in the bible is a lesson you're expected to follow. He has taught you to give away your possessions yet you somehow have convinced yourself through "interpretation" it doesn't apply to you. Cherry picking at its finest.

There were many rich followers of Christ who did great things.

Each one of them is unfortunately roasting eternally for disobeying your master. Very sad indeed.

The LOVE of money is the root of evil.  Money, in itself, is not the root of evil.  There is a difference.

Jesus didn't say "give away your love of your possessions." You're risking your very soul by being dishonest about this, aren't you?

Why do you say there is no archeological evidence?  Most of the cities in the Bible are accounted for.  Most of the people, Kings etc, have mention outside of scripture that they lived.

There is no archaeological evidence to support the bible. Did you not read the last post? One can write all day about something that might have happened in Topeka, Kansas but just because Topeka exists doesn't meant the event happened.

If you have some archaeological evidence you should present it because you'll surely become famous quickly. Many archaeologists have tried and failed over the past 2000 years. Just because a city existed and is mentioned in the bible doesn't mean the bible contains any facts about event details and is not good evidence of anything. You do understand the bible was mostly formed into its current structure in 325AD, well after "the events" are purported to have taken place. it's pretty easy to write "prophecy" or "archaeological writings" AFTER the event has taken place/existed.

There is extensive evidence.  Unfortunately, our schools like to ignore so much of this for some reason. 

Schools ignore religion's "archaeological evidence" because it is horseshit. The job of a school is to teach as much truth as possible, not religious delusion. That is the job of a madrasa.

[KeyserSoze]

Where to start.  No.  You're wrong.  There's plenty of faith involved in the assumption that gravity will work tomorrow.  After you clear the hurdles like "WTF *is* gravity" (no, general relativity notions like "curvature of space-time" are handy visualization aids, but not much more), you have to have faith in all kinds of notions: Persistence, the nature of temporality, the certainty that your thought is subject to extraneous physical phenomena... I could keep this list going, but you're bored already & i'm too.  Remember, even faith in universal non-contradiction ~(A & ~A) is just ... faith.  Hard proof is harder to come by than you think, so...  It's not semantics, you're just much too comfortable with your own assumptions.

*sigh*
You did exactly what I tried to head off, devolve into semantics. Of course there is no fact in science. Science deals with probability. However, at some point we have to build on the knowledge we have. If we want an answer to "what is 1 + 1," we can't stop to go back and debate the definition of the word "one" or "plus" each time. We cannot stop to talk about how man came to understand abstract thought, touch on Aristotle and the many others who helped form the concept of mathematics.

We rely on axiomatic "truths" we've already agreed to within our shared reality. We've arrived at these truths via science. We don't need to personally understand how to conduct electric experiments ourselves to trust that science has a pretty good understanding of how to observe and measure that phenomena. However ANYONE who doesn't buy into what we know of electricity can indeed absorb the knowledge necessary to go conduct experiments himself in attempt to falsify that information.

Progress requires building on our collective knowledge. To do that we have to establish a way to prove an assumption by:
1) asserting a hypothesis and its components
2) testing the components for substantial supporting evidence, unsupported components go back to be refined
3) either agree after successful testing that in our shared reality the hypothesis is now supported, or that overall unsupported components may mean the hypothesis fails
4) for sake of ease many people call these tested and supported hypotheses "facts", but again that's just so that we can get on with progress. There may be some people who can show under the right conditions that 1 + 1 does not equal 2, but in order to function in a society we have to get on with calling supported hypotheses "facts".

The issue at play here is that religious people are willing to agree to facts the world has established -- until those facts cross into their delusion. Then they wiggle and worm, employ Ad Hoc Hypothesis until one of the debaters faints from exhaustion, then finally invoke magic to overcome the facts they don't like.

The bible has very little if any historic value, and nearly zero factual content, despite what any church will tell you. If you rely only on the bible to make a point, that point is considered worthless because we've already proved the bible worthless as source material. We have to build on the knowledge we have. We cannot continually go back to square one with showing the bible is false, especially when adherents will only invoke magic at the end of the discussion.

You may not share mankind's general reality but for most of us, gravity will work tomorrow, no faith required. You're free to test it but my advice is: don't climb too high before you leap.

[neurobox]

Just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=red+sea+chariot+wheels

[KeyserSoze]

Just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=red+sea+chariot+wheels

For added fun:
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/red-sea-crossing-t878.html
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/05/coming-this-fall-exodus-conspiracy-dr.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm#.UaK0OYXxgy4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Wyatt

Moses didn't exist. The exodus never happened.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3355050,00.html
http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter12.html
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/TCF2K1C0BPAGF6BVO
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-isaacs/passover-in-egypt-did-the_b_846337.html

[crumbcake]

Where to start.  No.  You're wrong.  There's plenty of faith involved in the assumption that gravity will work tomorrow.  After you clear the hurdles like "WTF *is* gravity" (no, general relativity notions like "curvature of space-time" are handy visualization aids, but not much more), you have to have faith in all kinds of notions: Persistence, the nature of temporality, the certainty that your thought is subject to extraneous physical phenomena... I could keep this list going, but you're bored already & i'm too.  Remember, even faith in universal non-contradiction ~(A & ~A) is just ... faith.  Hard proof is harder to come by than you think, so...  It's not semantics, you're just much too comfortable with your own assumptions.

*sigh*
You did exactly what I tried to head off, devolve into semantics. Of course there is no fact in science. Science deals with probability. However, at some point we have to build on the knowledge we have. If we want an answer to "what is 1 + 1," we can't stop to go back and debate the definition of the word "one" or "plus" each time. We cannot stop to talk about how man came to understand abstract thought, touch on Aristotle and the many others who helped form the concept of mathematics.

We rely on axiomatic "truths" we've already agreed to within our shared reality. We've arrived at these truths via science.

A few hundred years ago you would have been saying "We rely on axiomatic "truths" we've already agreed to within our shared reality. We've arrived at these truths via science the Bible.

We don't need to personally understand how to conduct electric experiments ourselves to trust that science has a pretty good understanding of how to observe and measure that phenomena. However ANYONE who doesn't buy into what we know of electricity can indeed absorb the knowledge necessary to go conduct experiments himself in attempt to falsify that information.

If you personally don't know how to conduct electric experiments, I wouldn't expect you to be preaching to me about their irrefutability.  Of course you need to understand, otherwise you're going on blind faith. And blind faith is also dumb when it doesn't see itself as faith.

Progress requires building on our collective knowledge.

Progress, in its customary usage, requires nothing but passage of time.  Unless, of course, you posit a goal.

To do that we have to establish a way to prove an assumption by:
1) asserting a hypothesis and its components
2) testing the components for substantial supporting evidence, unsupported components go back to be refined
3) either agree after successful testing that in our shared reality the hypothesis is now supported, or that overall unsupported components may mean the hypothesis fails
4) for sake of ease many people call these tested and supported hypotheses "facts", but again that's just so that we can get on with progress. There may be some people who can show under the right conditions that 1 + 1 does not equal 2, but in order to function in a society we have to get on with calling supported hypotheses "facts".

Ah, the "some people X" interwebz argument.  I'm sorry, but that numbered list is ... wut?  What are you talking about?  What field?  Logic, physics, mathematics, what?

The issue at play here is that religious people are willing to agree to facts the world has established -- until those facts cross into their delusion.

Who?  

Then they wiggle and worm, employ Ad Hoc Hypothesis until one of the debaters faints from exhaustion, then finally invoke magic to overcome the facts they don't like.

Are you trying your hand at creative writing? (Who?!  This is just low-brow melodrama, a strawman who's prone to theatrics.)

The bible has very little if any historic value, and nearly zero factual content, despite what any church will tell you.

You've already forgotten what point you're arguing.  Irrelevant.

If you rely only on the bible to make a point, that point is considered worthless because we've already proved the bible worthless as source material. We have to build on the knowledge we have. We cannot continually go back to square one with showing the bible is false, especially when adherents will only invoke magic at the end of the discussion.

See 1, 2, 3 ,4 ... 100.  See: Irrelevant.

You may not share mankind's general reality but for most of us, gravity will work tomorrow, no faith required. You're free to test it but my advice is: don't climb too high before you leap.

Tell me more about stuff you admit you know nothing about.

[neurobox]

You respond to documentary videos with forums full of ad-hominem back-slapping? Good enough for some. Let's try again:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saqqara+egypt+joseph+grain

EDIT: Also, the logical failures of the biblicalnonsense article astound me. How can one argue logically against God based on the massive presumption that he cannot and does not interact? "From what we’ve learned about this god’s true lack of interaction with the people on earth, such unsubstantiated circumstances were highly unlikely to have ever taken place." It contains far more opinions than references, but again, that's good enough for some.

Before you parrot the lie that "there is zero evidence," look for the evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

[KeyserSoze]

Before you parrot the lie that "there is zero evidence," look for the evidence.

2000 years... still waiting on that empirical evidence for the existence of the god of Abraham. Have you been hiding it somewhere? Perhaps deep in a youtube "documentary video" (with comments disabled)?

[neurobox]

Define the empirical evidence that would satisfy you, and it will be beyond my ability. Jesus said it best, some would not believe even if someone were raised from the dead (which He proceeded to do). Need to be convinced? Ask Him yourself. If you have enough faith to do so, He won't let you down. Just don't say I didn't warn you.

[KeyserSoze]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

This page is equivalent to my showing you an unearthed New York subway token as proof Spiderman exists. The deluded will see what they want to see.

I enjoy how the link you sent seems to want to claim tokens from earlier cultures as "biblical artifacts" when all it does is provide further evidence to the claim the bible is a fraud made up of co-opted preceding myths and local legends. Showing us Gilgamesh and Hammurabi tablets do nothing to help the fraudulent bible, lol...

[neurobox]

...which are derived from the Code of Ur-Nammu, which includes such enlightened items as "25. If a man’s slave-woman, comparing herself to her mistress, speaks insolently to her, her mouth shall be scoured with 1 quart of salt. (22)"

Perhaps the Law as Moses recorded it was more Godly in what it did not include.

You're arguing against OT inerrancy, based on your suspicions. I'm arguing existence, based on personal experience. Such a discussion will not be resolved in this thread.

[QuestionAuthority]

JESUS H. CHRIST! Would someone please split this debate off to Politics & Society!

[KeyserSoze]

Perhaps the Law as Moses recorded it was more Godly in what it did not include.

If god is a capriciously violent, petulant, masochistic twit, then yes, biblical "law" is godly. As for good versus bad, the average 10th grade student could write better law than the pathetic weakling "god of Israel".

[neurobox]

Anyways, since I only came to dish my two cents on the OP's main topic: As far as bitcoin's role in the Revelations narrative, it clearly doesn't appear to fit the bill for a centralized antichrist system. I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts on how that could change, lest any of you get any big ideas, but for now I would implore Christians not to worry about bitcoin. Not that they should ever worry... There are some real characters out there that just love trying to get Christians to be afraid, as it brings out the worst in them. In contrast, a little faith brings out the best.

[Tywill]

is this really a topic?

[Sitarow]

Perhaps the Law as Moses recorded it was more Godly in what it did not include.

If god is a capriciously violent, petulant, masochistic twit, then yes, biblical "law" is godly. As for good versus bad, the average 10th grade student could write better law than the pathetic weakling "god of Israel".

KeyserSoze

What would you do if you could abolish all things you felt were untruth.

The way your going on leaves the impression you have no tolerance for other views.

You do realize that the path of spiritual awareness is a personal one. The only way to grow to understand the God you go on about is to walk along side by side with "God"

This monolithic creator who's name is YHWH יהוה and is the God of Abraham. It is the same God that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity worship.

Please remember God is Love above all other things. A reasonable level of tolerance even if we do not agree with the "choices" made are what we all should strive for.

Not a single person here would deny the fact that you have faith in your perception of this world.

However you have left the impression with your comments that you live with out faith in anything even yourself.

This path will bind you for the rest of your life and is not something that one should wish on anyone.

Remember that we are all playing our part on the stage of this play. What role you wish to play is your own.

I like to follow recent discoveries that help filter out any abusive interpretations that some have made over the centuries of the words of inspiration given to men.

Arguments like these remind me of the words pended in Luke 19:40

40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson is one of this century’s most intriguing possibilities to helping us understand this existence we all share.

It is evident your convictions show a distrust to organized religion since it is beyond your present ability to relate.

I also understand that a small minority of the human population have used this system to control the majority and even today continue to promote selfish motives at the cost of the innocent.

However they themselves will have an accounting.

Please realize that those that read your words may "follow" your view for the rest of their lives. Even if maybe 10 years down the line you happened to find "GOD" those same people will be still following your ideology and presumptions you have shared with us this day.

The problem here is that words and the time we have can never fully convey the journey each of us take and have taken in life.

Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:

`I hold it true, whate'er befall;`
`I feel it, when I sorrow most;`
`Tis better to have loved and lost`
`Than never to have loved at all`

On a lighter note I post a link to a video of inspiration for all those that can relate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qETTul0294

[Tekkna]

I was actually curious about religious beliefs with regards to bitcoins, I did not really expect to see an athiestic bigotry thread.

 

[KeyserSoze]

What would you do if you could abolish all things you felt were untruth.

Likely nothing.

You do realize that the path of spiritual awareness is a personal one. The only way to grow to understand the God you go on about is to walk along side by side with "God"

There is no "spiritual awareness," only you fooling yourself into thinking you understand some secret about the universe that escapes the rest of those not in whatever club of "spiritual awareness" you subscribe.

Religion is a manmade club like any other, with rules by which to segregate and perks to make the club feel special from other clubs. The club gets together periodically to reinforce the delusions of members. Many branches of this club have dues which most call a tîthe. Each club redefines words so its intolerance seems righteous.

You've chosen, or were likely born into a family who joined, the club that aligns best with your own fantasy concerning how to minimize your fears in life. You and others in the club are afraid so you've made up a god that soothes you by making decisions for you, helping you feel less alone in the universe, and promising you life everlasting. The various club gods offer perks to induce membership such as seeing dead relatives, virginal séx partners, planets to rule or even one's own god status.

The Jesus mythologized in Christianity never existed, was and is king of nothing. The bible is a collection of stolen, modified, pre-fabricated myth and forgeries about a non-existent deity. You don't have to be afraid. You do not need religion.

Deal with the lack of afterlife by celebrating life and family in the here and now. Be responsible for your own decisions. Be kind to the earth and others on it. Forge a path with determination, or "go with the flow" and let life determine the course if you're the lazy type. Either way, you don't need a god or a club for any of that.

This monolithic creator who's name is YHWH יהוה is the God of Abraham. It is the same God that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity worship.

There may be a creator, but there most definitely is no god of abraham.

Please remember god is Love above all other things. Tolerance even if we do not agree with the "choices" made are what we all strive for.

Love is the Trojan Horse inside which religion creeps into a person's life, only to spring open later to reveal hatred and intolerance. I'm thrilled you're an advocate for tolerance. Perhaps you can ask your god why he turned the nameless Lot's wife into salt for simply turning her head. Seems a little intolerant for such a loving being. After he gives you an answer (because I'm sure he'll email you) have him answer all these other seemingly intolerant actions:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

However please realize that those that read your words may "follow" your view for the rest of their lives. Even if maybe 10 years down the line you happened to find "GOD" those same people will be still following your ideology and presumptions you have shared with us this day.

I would be thrilled if I could help one person shake free the thorny shackles of religion.

On a lighter note I post a link to a video of inspiration for all those that can relate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qETTul0294

And so I share, "Is Religion Child Abuse?" for those who think we're all born sinners...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwDKT2etW8c