Religious beliefs on bitcoin

[BitChick]

Love is not a sin, and any God who calls it such is a sick and twisted one, not worthy of faith.

You are right, LOVE is not a sin.  However, sex can become sinful depending on the circumstances.  Sex and love are not one in the same.  Sex can cause tremendous hurt.  However, in the right context, it can be a beautiful thing that God created for us to show love.

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[myrkul]

Love is not a sin, and any God who calls it such is a sick and twisted one, not worthy of faith.

You are right, LOVE is not a sin.  However, sex can become sinful depending on the circumstances.  Sex and love are not one in the same.  Sex can cause tremendous hurt.  However, in the right context, it can be a beautiful thing that God created for us to show love.

If it hurts, you're doing it wrong.

[Rassah]

With regards to your question of "how can God be so evil to allow for a dark, unnoticed world like this to exist?"  I still think your anger might be misdirected.  Perhaps God is not the one to blame in all of this?  Perhaps it is the evil that is in the hearts of some "self righteous" that think that they are doing good?  

I never blamed god for the things that happened. I blamed him for sitting idly by and letting them happen, despite being supposedly omnipotent, just, and loving. There was nothing just or loving about letting what was happening to continue to happen.

They know that I do not agree with their choices but I still love them ... The Bible has laws about sex. Sex was created by God to be something sacred. ... I have been tempted to fall into sexual "sin" myself many times.

What choice, or sex, is there in simply falling in love with someone? My bf and I never got a chance to have sex before we finally broke up, even though we were in a relationship for almost two years. I never had a choice over whom I fell in love with. Maybe I'm different? And we were still evil monsters, despite "gay" being all about feelings, and not about actions.

All that said, I would go to God with your questions.  Have it out with Him!  Yell at him at the unfairness of it all.  Tell Him to show you why he would allow these things.  Only He can give you the answers in your hear to them.

I have. I asked him time and time again. I prayed and begged for any sort of answer. His deafening silence was all the answer I eventually needed.

[BitChick]

With regards to your question of "how can God be so evil to allow for a dark, unnoticed world like this to exist?"  I still think your anger might be misdirected.  Perhaps God is not the one to blame in all of this?  Perhaps it is the evil that is in the hearts of some "self righteous" that think that they are doing good?  

I never blamed god for the things that happened. I blamed him for sitting idly by and letting them happen, despite being supposedly omnipotent, just, and loving. There was nothing just or loving about letting what was happening to continue to happen.

I can understand that.  I felt like that with the guy that abused me.  Why would God just allow it to happen and not intervene at the time?  You will probably disagree with my reasoning, but I do think it comes down to the whole "free will" debate.  We are allowed to hurt each other.  We are allowed to make our own choices.  God does choose to intervene at times.  He did for me, but it took much longer than I wanted for sure.

What choice, or sex, is there in simply falling in love with someone? My bf and I never got a chance to have sex before we finally broke up, even though we were in a relationship for almost two years. I never had a choice over whom I fell in love with. Maybe I'm different? And we were still evil monsters, despite "gay" being all about feelings, and not about actions.

Of course you are not "evil monsters".  God is not discriminatory.  We are all the same in His eyes!  As for not having a choice over whom you fall in "love" with, it is a difficult thing.  I read an interesting article that was really eye opening to me and it was one guy's journey and why he went down the path he did: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/magazine/my-ex-gay-friend.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

All that said, I would go to God with your questions.  Have it out with Him!  Yell at him at the unfairness of it all.  Tell Him to show you why he would allow these things.  Only He can give you the answers in your hear to them.

I have. I asked him time and time again. I prayed and begged for any sort of answer. His deafening silence was all the answer I eventually needed.

Sometimes God does seem silent.  I think at times I give up when He does not answer me right away or if it takes longer than I want.  Or if I am not hearing anything and I am really upset I go to the Bible and read.  I especially like the Psalms.  David has some pretty dark days himself.  It is comforting to know we are not alone in our struggles.  I would continue to pray until you get an answer though.  Sometimes we have to keep knocking and he wants persistence for some reason.  "Seek and you will find.  Knock and the door will be opened."

[oakpacific]

Okay, since this is supposed to be a thread about Religion and Bitcoin.....

I would not bother God with my real-life issues if he does exist and answer my prays, instead I would ask him:" Could you show me a  preimage of '00000000000000000000000000000000' under SHA256 hash function? Thanks." This is very important for me because if he does exist, I would not doubt that P=NP, which is an utterly profound revelation if you think about it. Aslo hash functions are somehow constructions of human minds, so it would be interesting to see if God can reverse it.

[Rassah]

I never blamed god for the things that happened. I blamed him for sitting idly by and letting them happen, despite being supposedly omnipotent, just, and loving. There was nothing just or loving about letting what was happening to continue to happen.

I can understand that.  I felt like that with the guy that abused me.  Why would God just allow it to happen and not intervene at the time?  You will probably disagree with my reasoning, but I do think it comes down to the whole "free will" debate.  We are allowed to hurt each other.  We are allowed to make our own choices.  God does choose to intervene at times.  He did for me, but it took much longer than I wanted for sure.

Ok, but let's examine what happens when he doesn't intervene:
The claim is that god is omnipotent - he can see everything, do anything, and know everything that has happened or will ever happen.
The claim is that suicide is a cardinal sin - it goes directly against "Thou shalt not kill," results in a murder before one can ask forgiveness, and throws the gift of life right back into god's face.

So, god creates a girl, who is born into an abusive family. She is generally a nice and caring girl, polite and friendly to everyone. But as she grows up,  the abuse continues. Good sees it, but does nothing. The abuse slowly increases to where the young girl can't handle it any more, all while god still does nothing. At this point god knows exactly what will happen if he doesn't intervene, yet he still just sits and watches. And, as expected, the girl (I think she was 12 or 14 at the time?) takes her own life, just as god knew she would, and ends up going straight to hell. So, in short, god created an innocent girl, for the sole purpose of putting her through eternity of living and post-living hell. And he does this over and over again with hundreds, maybe thousands of kids over centuries - creating innocent life for the sole purpose of sending them to hell before they are even old enough to make rational decisions about life.

Why?

Ask your god that, and let me know if he gives you an answer.

[crumbcake]

With regards to your question of "how can God be so evil to allow for a dark, unnoticed world like this to exist?"  I still think your anger might be misdirected.  Perhaps God is not the one to blame in all of this?  Perhaps it is the evil that is in the hearts of some "self righteous" that think that they are doing good?  

I never blamed god for the things that happened. I blamed him for sitting idly by and letting them happen, despite being supposedly omnipotent, just, and loving. There was nothing just or loving about letting what was happening to continue to happen.

They know that I do not agree with their choices but I still love them ... The Bible has laws about sex. Sex was created by God to be something sacred. ... I have been tempted to fall into sexual "sin" myself many times.

What choice, or sex, is there in simply falling in love with someone? My bf and I never got a chance to have sex before we finally broke up, even though we were in a relationship for almost two years. I never had a choice over whom I fell in love with. Maybe I'm different? And we were still evil monsters, despite "gay" being all about feelings, and not about actions.

All that said, I would go to God with your questions.  Have it out with Him!  Yell at him at the unfairness of it all.  Tell Him to show you why he would allow these things.  Only He can give you the answers in your hear to them.

I have. I asked him time and time again. I prayed and begged for any sort of answer. His deafening silence was all the answer I eventually needed.

@Rassah:
After reading your story, the knee-jerk response is to turn to Christian apologetics -- to reconcile the Bible with what seems rational, logical, and, most of all, fair.  I see it's happening already, though that's a bit weepy & silly.  Sillier still is this entire discussion, which makes faith -- irrational by definition -- defend itself on rationality's playground.  That simply can't be done.*  All formal systems** have grammar, axiom sets, and rules of derivation, which are assumed (presupposed) to be true for that particular system.  That doesn't imply that they hold for other formal systems, and well-formed & provably valid statements of one system may be nothing more than gibberish in another.

TL;DR: Nothing about a faith needs to make sense to a non-believer.  Gnostics & logicians fall into each other's arms & weep cathartically.

On a lighter note, wtf was that spike up to $130 all about yesterday, right after the drop?  Can anyone explain that


*This is a tangent, but a fun one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorem
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_system

[keelba]

I think we're looking in the wrong place. Bitcoin is the anti-Mark-of-the-Beast. This looks much closer to it:

Google: Motorola's tattoos could replace passwords
Motorola’s forthcoming phones could use electronic tattoos or pills to identify users, it has been announced.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/10090863/Google-Motorolas-tattoos-could-replace-passwords.html

[crumbcake]

I think we're looking in the wrong place. Bitcoin is the anti-Mark-of-the-Beast. This looks much closer to it:

Google: Motorola's tattoos could replace passwords
Motorola’s forthcoming phones could use electronic tattoos or pills to identify users, it has been announced.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/10090863/Google-Motorolas-tattoos-could-replace-passwords.html

[pic of evol]

I think Hasbro got there first:("CutieMark") http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32300000/Have-Some-Cutie-Mark-Crusaders-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-32369381-500-298.png

[RodeoX]

I know what could account for all this inconsistency and contradiction. God's absence.
If you see religion as a idea of humanity then it all seems very clear. 

[Rassah]

@Rassah:
After reading your story, the knee-jerk response is to turn to Christian apologetics -- to reconcile the Bible with what seems rational, logical, and, most of all, fair.  I see it's happening already, though that's a bit weepy & silly.  Sillier still is this entire discussion, which makes faith -- irrational by definition -- defend itself on rationality's playground.  That simply can't be done.*  All formal systems** have grammar, axiom sets, and rules of derivation, which are assumed (presupposed) to be true for that particular system.  That doesn't imply that they hold for other formal systems, and well-formed & provably valid statements of one system may be nothing more than gibberish in another.

So, the irony of your claim is that the morality that we are taught through the bible does not conform logically to the same morality from the bible, nor the morality we come by on our own. Basically, here, this makes sense, even though it doesn't make sense, and there is no sense to it, but don't worry about it. So if it doesn't make sense, and we shouldn't worry about it, then what are we supposed to learn or use from it?

Regarding Bitcoin, if a one-world government controlled currency is a prerequisite for the end-times in Revelations, then something like Bitcoin, a distributed and impossible to control currency, becoming a mainstream just may make the end-times a literal impossibility. I think Bitcoin may actually kill any possibility of Jesus's second coming, unless Jesus simply ignores a few glaring aspects of the prophesy when he arrives.

[crumbcake]

@Rassah:
After reading your story, the knee-jerk response is to turn to Christian apologetics -- to reconcile the Bible with what seems rational, logical, and, most of all, fair.  I see it's happening already, though that's a bit weepy & silly.  Sillier still is this entire discussion, which makes faith -- irrational by definition -- defend itself on rationality's playground.  That simply can't be done.*  All formal systems** have grammar, axiom sets, and rules of derivation, which are assumed (presupposed) to be true for that particular system.  That doesn't imply that they hold for other formal systems, and well-formed & provably valid statements of one system may be nothing more than gibberish in another.

So, the irony of your claim is that the morality that we are taught through the bible does not conform logically to the same morality from the bible, nor the morality we come by on our own. Basically, here, this makes sense, even though it doesn't make sense, and there is no sense to it, but don't worry about it. So if it doesn't make sense, and we shouldn't worry about it, then what are we supposed to learn or use from it?

The Bible doesn't teach morality.  Morals, ethics, all of that stuff's purely secular constructs.  You can be as moral (whatever the society's definition of that happens to be at the moment) as you choose to be -- that's society's measure of your worth.  If the society happens to be a Christendom, being a Christian is a part of being "moral."  You can also be a Christian & absolutely blow it when it comes to mores & social norms -- depends on society.  You might be fed to the lions for lulz.

EDIT flash flash flash:
Forgot the important part:  What are we supposed to learn from it.
The tl;dr is "Love & have no fear," but this has to be internalized all at once, because otherwise it becomes very circular:  You need to have one of the two to get the other.  Sort of like defining x in terms of y, and defining y in terms of x. This sort of anti-intellectual learning is not unique to Christianity, or even to religion/mysticism.  Sure, there are Buddhists who ask you to quiet your mind & dispel mundane logic with koans & stuff.  If that's not your thing, think of gaming, riding a bike or surfing:  You can explain the basics, but to actually do those things reasonably well you *must not think* or your reactions will be too slow.  That's an analogy, and as all analogies, it's neither perfect nor convincing if picked apart, so simply a pointer to a pointer.

Regarding Bitcoin, if a one-world government controlled currency is a prerequisite for the end-times in Revelations, then something like Bitcoin, a distributed and impossible to control currency, becoming a mainstream just may make the end-times a literal impossibility. I think Bitcoin may actually kill any possibility of Jesus's second coming, unless Jesus simply ignores a few glaring aspects of the prophesy when he arrives.

Just to make sure we're on the same page:  You can conceive, just as a hypothetical, that certain knowledge is inaccessible to logical analysis?  

[crumbcake]

I know what could account for all some of this inconsistency and contradiction. God's absence.
If you see religion as a idea of humanity then it all seems very clear. 

[BitChick]

I never blamed god for the things that happened. I blamed him for sitting idly by and letting them happen, despite being supposedly omnipotent, just, and loving. There was nothing just or loving about letting what was happening to continue to happen.

I can understand that.  I felt like that with the guy that abused me.  Why would God just allow it to happen and not intervene at the time?  You will probably disagree with my reasoning, but I do think it comes down to the whole "free will" debate.  We are allowed to hurt each other.  We are allowed to make our own choices.  God does choose to intervene at times.  He did for me, but it took much longer than I wanted for sure.

Ok, but let's examine what happens when he doesn't intervene:
The claim is that god is omnipotent - he can see everything, do anything, and know everything that has happened or will ever happen.
The claim is that suicide is a cardinal sin - it goes directly against "Thou shalt not kill," results in a murder before one can ask forgiveness, and throws the gift of life right back into god's face.

So, god creates a girl, who is born into an abusive family. She is generally a nice and caring girl, polite and friendly to everyone. But as she grows up,  the abuse continues. Good sees it, but does nothing. The abuse slowly increases to where the young girl can't handle it any more, all while god still does nothing. At this point god knows exactly what will happen if he doesn't intervene, yet he still just sits and watches. And, as expected, the girl (I think she was 12 or 14 at the time?) takes her own life, just as god knew she would, and ends up going straight to hell. So, in short, god created an innocent girl, for the sole purpose of putting her through eternity of living and post-living hell. And he does this over and over again with hundreds, maybe thousands of kids over centuries - creating innocent life for the sole purpose of sending them to hell before they are even old enough to make rational decisions about life.

Why?

Ask your god that, and let me know if he gives you an answer.

I think you are right.  There is a sense of fairness in each of us and when something does not seem "fair" we can't help but question. Because I believe God is just and fair, then something does not work with the entire "Suicide is a cardinal sin" idea.  And I agree that if God was not fair, then why should we serve him?

So, it might surprise you,  but I don't believe that suicide is a cardinal sin.

This is where I differ from most Christians.  I struggled with the whole idea of how a loving God could send people to hell who like the girl were suffering from such horrid things they took their own life.  Or what about the people who never got a chance to even hear about Jesus and make that choice?  Talk about unfair?  Just because you are born into a family that is not Christian, and you never have the chance to even accept Jesus you go to hell?  That is unfair too.  Hence why I did some soul searching on this.

Christians get so dogmatic in the simplistic interpretation of hell and it leads to all kinds of problems.  I had a professor in college that mentioned that the English bible has taken places in the afterlife such as "Sheol and Hades" and simplified the places with "hell" instead.  The problem with this is "hell" has become what we all think of eternal flames and eternal punishment.  Once you are there, you have no chance but to suffer there forever.

In Catholicism purgatory is believed to be a temporary place the dead go to.  The word "purgatory" is not mentioned in scripture though.  However, Sheol and Hades are mentioned.  I think that perhaps there is some hidden truth in the idea of purgatory however. Although the idea of praying for people in Sheol or Hades or paying for indulgences I don't agree with.  But it is something that I think the Protestant churches have ignored.

Basically I believe that when Jesus was in the grave for the 3 days before he rose again he was speaking to the "dead" in a timeless place.  I believe that all people who never had a chance to accept him, or who had a horrible life like that girl, will get a chance there.  Just like here, people will have the chance to accept or reject him though.  Perhaps Jesus is even more merciful to those knowing what they had to endure?  I would say knowing Jesus like I do, that he would certainly reach out with love and compassion and comfort those who had to suffer so much!  It says that Jesus holds the keys to death and the grave in Revelation; "I am the living one. I died, but look--I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and the grave."   Also in 1 Peter 18-19 it says "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. 19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison"—   I believe that means he spoke to spirits that never got the chance to accept him, for all of time.

In discussing this with other Christians many argue with me.  They have been taught that everything is so "black and white" and it is really hard for them to see beyond that.  Also, there is the concern that in accepting that there is a way for people to accept Jesus after death we may not be as "evangelical".  There is often a desperation among Christians thinking that if they don't force others to believe like they do they will instantly go to hell after death.  I guess I have become more "relaxed" than I used to be in that.  However,  that said, I do have a greater trust that God is fair.  I suppose the reason I still feel compelled to share with others is that life without Jesus is not easy.  It can be a lonely dark place.  Life with Jesus, although not easy, is filled with hope, joy and love.  I am thankful that I can believe and trust in a God that is truly good, loving and kind.  

[oakpacific]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

[mprep]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

[oakpacific]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

It's interesting when they adopt a certain belief they tend to accept the whole 'package', a complete system of world view and way of living, while in East Asia we casually hop from one to another from time to time, and mixing things up a bit, and can hardly feel anything unusual. Maybe we are just quite a bit more superstitious and want blessings from any deity we come upon.

Otoh, whether there is a place for a creator in the Universe is an interesting question on its own, if you can throw away some of the premiums that came with the 'package'.

[crumbcake]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

It's interesting when they adopt a certain belief they tend to accept the whole 'package', a complete system of world view and way of living, while in East Asia we casually hop from one to another from time to time, and mixing things up a bit, and can hardly feel anything unusual.

Yeah, we had that in US too, we called it New Age   Crystalz and dreamcatchers & Tarot & scented candles. 

[oakpacific]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

It's interesting when they adopt a certain belief they tend to accept the whole 'package', a complete system of world view and way of living, while in East Asia we casually hop from one to another from time to time, and mixing things up a bit, and can hardly feel anything unusual.

Yeah, we had that in US too, we called it New Age   Crystalz and dreamcatchers & Tarot & scented candles. 

New Age is fine, but still, it's the 'coming' of something..

[crumbcake]

Why Americans have to draw lines when it comes to belief is beyond me.....

Same here. Guess freedom of speech and will encourages discussions and conflicts between those who think different. It isn't something that anyone can change or easily influence.

It's interesting when they adopt a certain belief they tend to accept the whole 'package', a complete system of world view and way of living, while in East Asia we casually hop from one to another from time to time, and mixing things up a bit, and can hardly feel anything unusual.

Yeah, we had that in US too, we called it New Age   Crystalz and dreamcatchers & Tarot & scented candles. 

New Age is fine, but still, it's the 'coming' of something..

The way it played out in the states was a nauseating goulash of pop interpretations of pop interpretations of "i'm Running Earth Wiccan vulva goddess and this is mystical shit."  Almost made fire & brimstone seem attractive.