BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes)

[SEO_Account]

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance. 

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Hey Rob I have no problem paying the 2500 BBP. Could you post the address that I should send it to? Thanks!

[1714880874]

1714880874

[bible_pay]

"Regarding the dynamics of solving blocks on prior versions I will go into detail on that after church."

So although we required a mandatory upgrade between 1.0.7.7 and 1.0.7.8+, this was intended to upgrade instantsend, but not to kick the miners off the current block algorithm.

So the enforcement in this case was set for a protocol upgrade (for sanctuaries) and a soft-hangup on old versions.

This means that blocks solved on prior versions are not discarded unless mined on a fork.  So when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower.  I see we have 63% right now on 1.0.7.1 that has not upgraded.  

So this effect will come into play when the 63% solo level drops to 49%.  That hash power is going to go to waste and provide more coins for the early birds who did upgrade.

Now here is a Very interesting effect that is happening right now and might answer some of our network questions.  I flipped the switch on the pool requiring 1.0.7.9+ to hash against the pool.  There are 63% now that are either solo mining or have a private pool, as they are still solving blocks at the 63% level on the network currently right this second (and cant be in the pool as the pool refuses the connection).  That explains where 63% out of our 75% is, but we still do not know if its a solo group, a botnet or a private pool.  

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't get it what is happening now after the "mandatory" upgrade to 1079. From MY understanding a "mandatory" upgrade results in a fork (at a certain block). Apparantely this is NOT what this is, since you write that all blocks solved on older versions are still valid ("unless mined on a fork"). Then you write "when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower". How so? On the other mandatories you were afraid that at the key block not enough would have upgraded and therefore the blockchain would fork with the majority on the "wrong end". Isn't this exactly what this is right now? The botnet (and judging by the non-existent pool solutions about 90% of the overall hashpower....) are on a major fork and the pool (so "we all") are the minor "wrong" fork?
Please explain what has happened the last 2 days and how you ever expect the botnet and all the solo miners to update, considering that the current state works just marvellous for them...

Let me talk a little about the magical missing pieces.
I try to be fair for everyone.  Since this mandatory involved the IS vulnerability only and was not a mining algo change, I feel its a little unfair for me to hard fork the miners, so I incremented the protocol version required for sancs (since they provide the instant send service), and required a mandatory for the regular network with the punishment being that we hang up on older nodes.  I did not create a fork however.

So basically, if you are one of those botnet users, you cant instant send funds.  Our sancs had to upgrade, since they would stop getting paid (so they all did already, I can see that).  Anyone who upgraded can now send IS again.

So our only problem is 1000 or so PCs on 1.0.7.1 wont upgrade and they are 60% of our network hash power.
The reason they still exist, is someone is acting as a bridge between the old version and the new version.

I could potentially kick them off... but should we?

BTW, to answer your question, our version 1080 will hang up on those nodes and not service them.  You are correct, since we are newer, they will not hang up on us.  Someone out there is acting as a bridge, and forwarding their blocks to our chain, could be a fraudulent client with a fake protocol version compiled in.

Should we kick them off?

[bible_pay]

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance. 

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Hey Rob I have no problem paying the 2500 BBP. Could you post the address that I should send it to? Thanks!

Please send it to the pool; it can use the money still:

B74TWhTE5aCXc2WfPfZUcgQ3mnvcqFXm7J


Let me know your handle in the pool and Ill credit you?
Thanks dude.

[bible_pay]

all this updates+pool go to hell  

will be only Robs empty pool and china shit botnet  

Relax, we all feel the pains & challenges that are inevitable when building a great project like BiblePay. I spent years working in heavy construction where the danger and pain is real, so to me this virtual/digital type project tastes like a delicious piece of chocolate cake.

We need your input and your help Slovakia. Just as important we need your prayers.

Thank you sir!

Good point, lets take a moment to Thank God for providing the Creation of the Entire Universe, all living things and all moving atoms, and our strength, intelligence, wisdom, health, dexterity, and charisma to solve daily problems like this and realize nothing is possible without God.

Take time to thank him for your peace and safety, that we are not in WWIII currently, and we are dealing with "easy" things like being hot or cold and living in a glass house, and not dealing with starvation or being in the tribulation.

Thank you Jesus!


EDIT: I pray for Slovakia to have meek, and sweet and stable personality.

[SEO_Account]

Please send it to the pool; it can use the money still:

B74TWhTE5aCXc2WfPfZUcgQ3mnvcqFXm7J


Let me know your handle in the pool and Ill credit you?
Thanks dude.

Ok I sent https://biblepay-explorer.org/tx/be2dc7940fa44a2f070b97f333278dd9e4e00b33a0219b3aff81a19dbeab6358

My pool handle is... "AIDS_SKRILLEX"

[bible_pay]

Please send it to the pool; it can use the money still:

B74TWhTE5aCXc2WfPfZUcgQ3mnvcqFXm7J


Let me know your handle in the pool and Ill credit you?
Thanks dude.

Ok I sent https://biblepay-explorer.org/tx/be2dc7940fa44a2f070b97f333278dd9e4e00b33a0219b3aff81a19dbeab6358

My pool handle is... "AIDS_SKRILLEX"

Thanks, you should be set!

[togoshigekata]

Hey Rob, SEO_Account was attempting to create a Proposal on the Pool website but he noticed this message:

"** Note: Each new Proposal costs 2500 BBP. Please do not Save the proposal unless you agree to pay 2500 BBP **"

Does the proposal fee come out of the pool account? How does this work?
(If it does come out of the pool account, is there a way to send funds to ones pool account?)

If BBP price is about $0.01 per BBP, thats about ~$25?

My understanding is that proposal fee is to help reduce spamming of proposals?

Thanks!, Togo

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance. 

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Awesome!, oh man so many terrible people in the world... ugh

The 5 Dash fee has been interesting to watch given how much it costs now, its hard for the average joe to create proposals over there,
I think theyve been debating a lower fee, but also theyve debating ideas like sub DAOs, and having organizations that vet projects and fund the fee,
very interesting to watch unfold. There was one pretty awesome team that I saw that proposed creating a hardware wallet device for Dash and they got rejected, RIP $5k

Currently I only have ~400 BBP in my pool account and I guess SEO_Account doesnt have much BBP in his either,
I know your pool site abstracts the complexity of creating the proposal in the blockchain, which is awesome!,
but yeah It would be cool to be able to fund my pool account if possible!

I think this is going to cause it to be harder for individuals who want to do work with us who dont mine on the pool or who dont have any coins
(especially new charities/nonprofits and such), and I believe it also centralizes the process and causes you to have to do more work
(which Id like to lift as much extra work as possible from you!), but I do think the proposal fee is totally necessary.

Is there a way to enter the proposal into the blockchain without using the pool?
I believe there is, I can dig into it and write instructions, but not sure if it would show up on the pool website, hmmm

[bible_pay]

Hey Rob, SEO_Account was attempting to create a Proposal on the Pool website but he noticed this message:

"** Note: Each new Proposal costs 2500 BBP. Please do not Save the proposal unless you agree to pay 2500 BBP **"

Does the proposal fee come out of the pool account? How does this work?
(If it does come out of the pool account, is there a way to send funds to ones pool account?)

If BBP price is about $0.01 per BBP, thats about ~$25?

My understanding is that proposal fee is to help reduce spamming of proposals?

Thanks!, Togo

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance. 

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Awesome!, oh man so many terrible people in the world... ugh

The 5 Dash fee has been interesting to watch given how much it costs now, its hard for the average joe to create proposals over there,
I think theyve been debating a lower fee, but also theyve debating ideas like sub DAOs, and having organizations that vet projects and fund the fee,
very interesting to watch unfold. There was one pretty awesome team that I saw that proposed creating a hardware wallet device for Dash and they got rejected, RIP $5k

Currently I only have ~400 BBP in my pool account and I guess SEO_Account doesnt have much BBP in his either,
I know your pool site abstracts the complexity of creating the proposal in the blockchain, which is awesome!,
but yeah It would be cool to be able to fund my pool account if possible!

I think this is going to cause it to be harder for individuals who want to do work with us who dont mine on the pool or who dont have any coins
(especially new charities/nonprofits and such), and I believe it also centralizes the process and causes you to have to do more work
(which Id like to lift as much extra work as possible from you!), but I do think the proposal fee is totally necessary.

Is there a way to enter the proposal into the blockchain without using the pool?
I believe there is, I can dig into it and write instructions, but not sure if it would show up on the pool website, hmmm

Ok, credited you the BBP to your pool account.

The commands to do it from the chain are actually in the pool source code, its not easy, but its not rocket science.  It requires dumping 6-7 fields in notepad, creating a hex proposal with rpc commands, sending money to escrow in the chain, recording txid, sending the thing into the chain as a proposal with escrow, so yes it can be done manually.

I would not worry about this centralization too much right now, as I think the weed and feed nature weeds out corruption and is a greater benefit than spending time on the issue, we have a lot to do, and technically its still decentalized anyway.  I think we should take a look at creating a spreadsheet of third world countries and filling fields with attributes for the unbanked, and starting an initiaitve to add a bbp feature taht services the unbanked and somehow, provides food to starving children in that area.  We could ask Webster to make us a mobile electrum wallet, and lets try to be the creator of some high technology that lets you buy a loaf of bread in that area, or use bbp like a checking account.

The stragglers will come on the board and beg you to enter a proposal, not a problem.

[DayTripperSimon]

I know its hard to upgrade so many devices, but 1.0.7.1 might be too old to tolerate - at least at this stage as the network isn't big enough to do it automatically.
I say lets move forward and kick them.

[togoshigekata]

Sent X BBP to B74TWhTE5aCXc2WfPfZUcgQ3mnvcqFXm7J

Pool username is:  togo_w

Looks like its still unconfirmed until we pass block Y

Thanks!

[tiras]

"Regarding the dynamics of solving blocks on prior versions I will go into detail on that after church."

So although we required a mandatory upgrade between 1.0.7.7 and 1.0.7.8+, this was intended to upgrade instantsend, but not to kick the miners off the current block algorithm.

So the enforcement in this case was set for a protocol upgrade (for sanctuaries) and a soft-hangup on old versions.

This means that blocks solved on prior versions are not discarded unless mined on a fork.  So when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower.  I see we have 63% right now on 1.0.7.1 that has not upgraded.  

So this effect will come into play when the 63% solo level drops to 49%.  That hash power is going to go to waste and provide more coins for the early birds who did upgrade.

Now here is a Very interesting effect that is happening right now and might answer some of our network questions.  I flipped the switch on the pool requiring 1.0.7.9+ to hash against the pool.  There are 63% now that are either solo mining or have a private pool, as they are still solving blocks at the 63% level on the network currently right this second (and cant be in the pool as the pool refuses the connection).  That explains where 63% out of our 75% is, but we still do not know if its a solo group, a botnet or a private pool.  

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't get it what is happening now after the "mandatory" upgrade to 1079. From MY understanding a "mandatory" upgrade results in a fork (at a certain block). Apparantely this is NOT what this is, since you write that all blocks solved on older versions are still valid ("unless mined on a fork"). Then you write "when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower". How so? On the other mandatories you were afraid that at the key block not enough would have upgraded and therefore the blockchain would fork with the majority on the "wrong end". Isn't this exactly what this is right now? The botnet (and judging by the non-existent pool solutions about 90% of the overall hashpower....) are on a major fork and the pool (so "we all") are the minor "wrong" fork?
Please explain what has happened the last 2 days and how you ever expect the botnet and all the solo miners to update, considering that the current state works just marvellous for them...

Let me talk a little about the magical missing pieces.
I try to be fair for everyone.  Since this mandatory involved the IS vulnerability only and was not a mining algo change, I feel its a little unfair for me to hard fork the miners, so I incremented the protocol version required for sancs (since they provide the instant send service), and required a mandatory for the regular network with the punishment being that we hang up on older nodes.  I did not create a fork however.

So basically, if you are one of those botnet users, you cant instant send funds.  Our sancs had to upgrade, since they would stop getting paid (so they all did already, I can see that).  Anyone who upgraded can now send IS again.

So our only problem is 1000 or so PCs on 1.0.7.1 wont upgrade and they are 60% of our network hash power.
The reason they still exist, is someone is acting as a bridge between the old version and the new version.

I could potentially kick them off... but should we?

BTW, to answer your question, our version 1080 will hang up on those nodes and not service them.  You are correct, since we are newer, they will not hang up on us.  Someone out there is acting as a bridge, and forwarding their blocks to our chain, could be a fraudulent client with a fake protocol version compiled in.

Should we kick them off?

Rob, there have been tons of mandatory upgrades since 1071 .  

why the heck  1071 is still usable .  if there's a way to kick them out just do it then .

Code:

    
1.0.8.0-Mandatory

    - Fix bug in instant send

commit e2c57306af1fc1a765e5898c4a0e01cae8491c51
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Sat Jan 13 13:59:29 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.9-Mandatory

    - Fix instantsend security bug
    - Increment protocol to 70714

commit a84cead3c51500d029f3f7f720cef3e93d30ff89
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Sat Jan 13 08:33:41 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.8-Mandatory

    - System wide upgrade to protocol version 70713

commit 210b099cc1a7e15f70102e8c6986b2287fb8bd02
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 15:07:29 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7.c-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Fix Logging Bug

commit b83449d41e7a3cd835548fc801a830b64d6002a5
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 14:49:13 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7b-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Bump protocol_version to 70713

commit 544258ddd52344a21194187589597245e46def8e
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 12:36:40 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Fix instantsend security bug

commit 66c28959e1637dc4a135c8274d065ac22656e979
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Thu Jan 4 15:57:39 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.6-Leisure

    - Fix bug in HTTPS pool communication
    - Show a bible verse in popup balloon when receiving a transaction

[slovakia]

our SVK group offing all machines on pool .... this noob updates KILLED this coin

have a nice day

[togoshigekata]

I think we should take a look at creating a spreadsheet of third world countries and filling fields with attributes for the unbanked, and starting an initiaitve to add a bbp feature taht services the unbanked and somehow, provides food to starving children in that area.  We could ask Webster to make us a mobile electrum wallet, and lets try to be the creator of some high technology that lets you buy a loaf of bread in that area, or use bbp like a checking account.

I posted the unbanked goal/mission on Reddit, ALT-J90 has some interesting feedback:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BiblePay/comments/7qh2mz/helping_the_unbanked_poor_in_third_world_countries/

[616westwarmoth]

I've got the next video tutorial done.  https://youtu.be/5-WiMBCvI8g.  Updating Linux Masternode.  Will work some more on the basic installing on Windows and hope to have it out quicker than the turnaround this one took.  On the plus side, got the video editor working better, so it looks more professional.

[webster22]

Hey Rob, SEO_Account was attempting to create a Proposal on the Pool website but he noticed this message:

"** Note: Each new Proposal costs 2500 BBP. Please do not Save the proposal unless you agree to pay 2500 BBP **"

Does the proposal fee come out of the pool account? How does this work?
(If it does come out of the pool account, is there a way to send funds to ones pool account?)

If BBP price is about $0.01 per BBP, thats about ~$25?

My understanding is that proposal fee is to help reduce spamming of proposals?

Thanks!, Togo

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance.  

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Awesome!, oh man so many terrible people in the world... ugh

The 5 Dash fee has been interesting to watch given how much it costs now, its hard for the average joe to create proposals over there,
I think theyve been debating a lower fee, but also theyve debating ideas like sub DAOs, and having organizations that vet projects and fund the fee,
very interesting to watch unfold. There was one pretty awesome team that I saw that proposed creating a hardware wallet device for Dash and they got rejected, RIP $5k

Currently I only have ~400 BBP in my pool account and I guess SEO_Account doesnt have much BBP in his either,
I know your pool site abstracts the complexity of creating the proposal in the blockchain, which is awesome!,
but yeah It would be cool to be able to fund my pool account if possible!

I think this is going to cause it to be harder for individuals who want to do work with us who dont mine on the pool or who dont have any coins
(especially new charities/nonprofits and such), and I believe it also centralizes the process and causes you to have to do more work
(which Id like to lift as much extra work as possible from you!), but I do think the proposal fee is totally necessary.

Is there a way to enter the proposal into the blockchain without using the pool?
I believe there is, I can dig into it and write instructions, but not sure if it would show up on the pool website, hmmm

Ok, credited you the BBP to your pool account.

The commands to do it from the chain are actually in the pool source code, its not easy, but its not rocket science.  It requires dumping 6-7 fields in notepad, creating a hex proposal with rpc commands, sending money to escrow in the chain, recording txid, sending the thing into the chain as a proposal with escrow, so yes it can be done manually.

I would not worry about this centralization too much right now, as I think the weed and feed nature weeds out corruption and is a greater benefit than spending time on the issue, we have a lot to do, and technically its still decentalized anyway.  I think we should take a look at creating a spreadsheet of third world countries and filling fields with attributes for the unbanked, and starting an initiaitve to add a bbp feature taht services the unbanked and somehow, provides food to starving children in that area.  We could ask Webster to make us a mobile electrum wallet, and lets try to be the creator of some high technology that lets you buy a loaf of bread in that area, or use bbp like a checking account.

The stragglers will come on the board and beg you to enter a proposal, not a problem.

You rang.. lol

Yeah Id love to do that and actually AM doing that. I am considering different server side options for the RPC side. There are many libs out there to choose from .  I have dug a bit into electrum server and got it installed but then got distracted with the UI side of things. Ive got several learning curves im going through with all these technologies (front and back) and languages so bear with me as I figure out several approaches.

Also Ill never be able to mine 2500 bbp...with the missing blocks and my very low cpu resources id be lucky to reach that target in weeks. So to submit a proposal I will have to forward you some coins when Im ready to put something together. And I def want to get into this next blocks budget. Also  have some interesting ideas for a PR project. Going to be a very busy next two weeks for me...

... I am going back to my coding cave now to absorb the bookmarks.... if only i could pause time to let my brain catch up to all these different bits of pieces ....

[joelles]

Hey Rob, SEO_Account was attempting to create a Proposal on the Pool website but he noticed this message:

"** Note: Each new Proposal costs 2500 BBP. Please do not Save the proposal unless you agree to pay 2500 BBP **"

Does the proposal fee come out of the pool account? How does this work?
(If it does come out of the pool account, is there a way to send funds to ones pool account?)

If BBP price is about $0.01 per BBP, thats about ~$25?

My understanding is that proposal fee is to help reduce spamming of proposals?

Thanks!, Togo

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance.  

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Awesome!, oh man so many terrible people in the world... ugh

The 5 Dash fee has been interesting to watch given how much it costs now, its hard for the average joe to create proposals over there,
I think theyve been debating a lower fee, but also theyve debating ideas like sub DAOs, and having organizations that vet projects and fund the fee,
very interesting to watch unfold. There was one pretty awesome team that I saw that proposed creating a hardware wallet device for Dash and they got rejected, RIP $5k

Currently I only have ~400 BBP in my pool account and I guess SEO_Account doesnt have much BBP in his either,
I know your pool site abstracts the complexity of creating the proposal in the blockchain, which is awesome!,
but yeah It would be cool to be able to fund my pool account if possible!

I think this is going to cause it to be harder for individuals who want to do work with us who dont mine on the pool or who dont have any coins
(especially new charities/nonprofits and such), and I believe it also centralizes the process and causes you to have to do more work
(which Id like to lift as much extra work as possible from you!), but I do think the proposal fee is totally necessary.

Is there a way to enter the proposal into the blockchain without using the pool?
I believe there is, I can dig into it and write instructions, but not sure if it would show up on the pool website, hmmm

Ok, credited you the BBP to your pool account.

The commands to do it from the chain are actually in the pool source code, its not easy, but its not rocket science.  It requires dumping 6-7 fields in notepad, creating a hex proposal with rpc commands, sending money to escrow in the chain, recording txid, sending the thing into the chain as a proposal with escrow, so yes it can be done manually.

I would not worry about this centralization too much right now, as I think the weed and feed nature weeds out corruption and is a greater benefit than spending time on the issue, we have a lot to do, and technically its still decentalized anyway.  I think we should take a look at creating a spreadsheet of third world countries and filling fields with attributes for the unbanked, and starting an initiaitve to add a bbp feature taht services the unbanked and somehow, provides food to starving children in that area.  We could ask Webster to make us a mobile electrum wallet, and lets try to be the creator of some high technology that lets you buy a loaf of bread in that area, or use bbp like a checking account.

The stragglers will come on the board and beg you to enter a proposal, not a problem.

You rang.. lol

Yeah Id love to do that and actually AM doing that. I am considering different server side options for the RPC side. There are many libs out there to choose from .  I have dug a bit into electrum server and got it installed but then got distracted with the UI side of things. Ive got several learning curves im going through with all these technologies (front and back) and languages so bear with me as I figure out several approaches.

Also Ill never be able to mine 2500 bbp...with the missing blocks and my very low cpu resources id be lucky to reach that target in weeks. So to submit a proposal I will have to forward you some coins when Im ready to put something together. And I def want to get into this next blocks budget. Also  have some interesting ideas for a PR project. Going to be a very busy next two weeks for me...

... I am going back to my coding cave now to absorb the bookmarks.... if only i could pause time to let my brain catch up to all these different bits of pieces ....

If it is for the mobile wallet proposal I'll pay the 2500bbp you can pay me back after. It is something I would like to see soon.

[togoshigekata]

I've got the next video tutorial done.  https://youtu.be/5-WiMBCvI8g.  Updating Linux Masternode.  Will work some more on the basic installing on Windows and hope to have it out quicker than the turnaround this one took.  On the plus side, got the video editor working better, so it looks more professional.

Awesome! Ill add it to the sanctuary guide!

[joelles]

"Regarding the dynamics of solving blocks on prior versions I will go into detail on that after church."

So although we required a mandatory upgrade between 1.0.7.7 and 1.0.7.8+, this was intended to upgrade instantsend, but not to kick the miners off the current block algorithm.

So the enforcement in this case was set for a protocol upgrade (for sanctuaries) and a soft-hangup on old versions.

This means that blocks solved on prior versions are not discarded unless mined on a fork.  So when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower.  I see we have 63% right now on 1.0.7.1 that has not upgraded.  

So this effect will come into play when the 63% solo level drops to 49%.  That hash power is going to go to waste and provide more coins for the early birds who did upgrade.

Now here is a Very interesting effect that is happening right now and might answer some of our network questions.  I flipped the switch on the pool requiring 1.0.7.9+ to hash against the pool.  There are 63% now that are either solo mining or have a private pool, as they are still solving blocks at the 63% level on the network currently right this second (and cant be in the pool as the pool refuses the connection).  That explains where 63% out of our 75% is, but we still do not know if its a solo group, a botnet or a private pool.  

Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't get it what is happening now after the "mandatory" upgrade to 1079. From MY understanding a "mandatory" upgrade results in a fork (at a certain block). Apparantely this is NOT what this is, since you write that all blocks solved on older versions are still valid ("unless mined on a fork"). Then you write "when we get to the point of a 50% upgrade level, those old versions are going to be wasting hashpower". How so? On the other mandatories you were afraid that at the key block not enough would have upgraded and therefore the blockchain would fork with the majority on the "wrong end". Isn't this exactly what this is right now? The botnet (and judging by the non-existent pool solutions about 90% of the overall hashpower....) are on a major fork and the pool (so "we all") are the minor "wrong" fork?
Please explain what has happened the last 2 days and how you ever expect the botnet and all the solo miners to update, considering that the current state works just marvellous for them...

Let me talk a little about the magical missing pieces.
I try to be fair for everyone.  Since this mandatory involved the IS vulnerability only and was not a mining algo change, I feel its a little unfair for me to hard fork the miners, so I incremented the protocol version required for sancs (since they provide the instant send service), and required a mandatory for the regular network with the punishment being that we hang up on older nodes.  I did not create a fork however.

So basically, if you are one of those botnet users, you cant instant send funds.  Our sancs had to upgrade, since they would stop getting paid (so they all did already, I can see that).  Anyone who upgraded can now send IS again.

So our only problem is 1000 or so PCs on 1.0.7.1 wont upgrade and they are 60% of our network hash power.
The reason they still exist, is someone is acting as a bridge between the old version and the new version.

I could potentially kick them off... but should we?

BTW, to answer your question, our version 1080 will hang up on those nodes and not service them.  You are correct, since we are newer, they will not hang up on us.  Someone out there is acting as a bridge, and forwarding their blocks to our chain, could be a fraudulent client with a fake protocol version compiled in.

Should we kick them off?

Rob, there have been tons of mandatory upgrades since 1071 .  

why the heck  1071 is still usable .  if there's a way to kick them out just do it then .

Code:

    
1.0.8.0-Mandatory

    - Fix bug in instant send

commit e2c57306af1fc1a765e5898c4a0e01cae8491c51
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Sat Jan 13 13:59:29 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.9-Mandatory

    - Fix instantsend security bug
    - Increment protocol to 70714

commit a84cead3c51500d029f3f7f720cef3e93d30ff89
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Sat Jan 13 08:33:41 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.8-Mandatory

    - System wide upgrade to protocol version 70713

commit 210b099cc1a7e15f70102e8c6986b2287fb8bd02
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 15:07:29 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7.c-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Fix Logging Bug

commit b83449d41e7a3cd835548fc801a830b64d6002a5
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 14:49:13 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7b-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Bump protocol_version to 70713

commit 544258ddd52344a21194187589597245e46def8e
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Fri Jan 12 12:36:40 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.7-Mandatory Upgrade

    - Fix instantsend security bug

commit 66c28959e1637dc4a135c8274d065ac22656e979
Author: biblepay <contact@biblepay.org>
Date:   Thu Jan 4 15:57:39 2018 -0600

    1.0.7.6-Leisure

    - Fix bug in HTTPS pool communication
    - Show a bible verse in popup balloon when receiving a transaction

Yes if version mandatory should kick people with versions much lower then current. What if hardfork happen and half the miners stay on there? We get bbp classic token? Lol

[bible_pay]

Sent 50k BBP to B74TWhTE5aCXc2WfPfZUcgQ3mnvcqFXm7J

Pool username is:  togo_w

Looks like its still unconfirmed until we pass block 25865

Thanks!

Ok, thanks a lot, credited.

[bible_pay]

Hey Rob, SEO_Account was attempting to create a Proposal on the Pool website but he noticed this message:

"** Note: Each new Proposal costs 2500 BBP. Please do not Save the proposal unless you agree to pay 2500 BBP **"

Does the proposal fee come out of the pool account? How does this work?
(If it does come out of the pool account, is there a way to send funds to ones pool account?)

If BBP price is about $0.01 per BBP, thats about ~$25?

My understanding is that proposal fee is to help reduce spamming of proposals?

Thanks!, Togo

Yeah, someone tried to create a proposal pointed to a web site that had a virus on the page.  I think theyve tried pretty much everything now.
(That almost beats the one where they uploaded a virus into an orphans letter).

So I had to raise the bar a little bit to enter proposals.
You know, in Dash, its 5 dash to create a proposal, and since that is like $5000, over there the proposer usually asks for reimbursement inside the proposal.

So I recommend doing the same thing here, pad the 2500 bbp on top of your proposal amount.

The amount is deducted from the users pool balance.  

Its also there to help reduce proposals down to serious proposals only, the least I would expect is someone to spend $25 up front to ask us to evaluate the proposal (as it takes all of our time to vote on it and read it and discuss it) etc.

I could deposit BBP into ones pool account if a person sends me BBP, Ill credit the pool account if need be.

Awesome!, oh man so many terrible people in the world... ugh

The 5 Dash fee has been interesting to watch given how much it costs now, its hard for the average joe to create proposals over there,
I think theyve been debating a lower fee, but also theyve debating ideas like sub DAOs, and having organizations that vet projects and fund the fee,
very interesting to watch unfold. There was one pretty awesome team that I saw that proposed creating a hardware wallet device for Dash and they got rejected, RIP $5k

Currently I only have ~400 BBP in my pool account and I guess SEO_Account doesnt have much BBP in his either,
I know your pool site abstracts the complexity of creating the proposal in the blockchain, which is awesome!,
but yeah It would be cool to be able to fund my pool account if possible!

I think this is going to cause it to be harder for individuals who want to do work with us who dont mine on the pool or who dont have any coins
(especially new charities/nonprofits and such), and I believe it also centralizes the process and causes you to have to do more work
(which Id like to lift as much extra work as possible from you!), but I do think the proposal fee is totally necessary.

Is there a way to enter the proposal into the blockchain without using the pool?
I believe there is, I can dig into it and write instructions, but not sure if it would show up on the pool website, hmmm

Ok, credited you the BBP to your pool account.

The commands to do it from the chain are actually in the pool source code, its not easy, but its not rocket science.  It requires dumping 6-7 fields in notepad, creating a hex proposal with rpc commands, sending money to escrow in the chain, recording txid, sending the thing into the chain as a proposal with escrow, so yes it can be done manually.

I would not worry about this centralization too much right now, as I think the weed and feed nature weeds out corruption and is a greater benefit than spending time on the issue, we have a lot to do, and technically its still decentalized anyway.  I think we should take a look at creating a spreadsheet of third world countries and filling fields with attributes for the unbanked, and starting an initiaitve to add a bbp feature taht services the unbanked and somehow, provides food to starving children in that area.  We could ask Webster to make us a mobile electrum wallet, and lets try to be the creator of some high technology that lets you buy a loaf of bread in that area, or use bbp like a checking account.

The stragglers will come on the board and beg you to enter a proposal, not a problem.

You rang.. lol

Yeah Id love to do that and actually AM doing that. I am considering different server side options for the RPC side. There are many libs out there to choose from .  I have dug a bit into electrum server and got it installed but then got distracted with the UI side of things. Ive got several learning curves im going through with all these technologies (front and back) and languages so bear with me as I figure out several approaches.

Also Ill never be able to mine 2500 bbp...with the missing blocks and my very low cpu resources id be lucky to reach that target in weeks. So to submit a proposal I will have to forward you some coins when Im ready to put something together. And I def want to get into this next blocks budget. Also  have some interesting ideas for a PR project. Going to be a very busy next two weeks for me...

... I am going back to my coding cave now to absorb the bookmarks.... if only i could pause time to let my brain catch up to all these different bits of pieces ....

Ok, sounds like you are very passionate about this project, thats what we need!  Sweet.  Yeah, we will back you when we need to put the proposal in, awesome.