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Author Topic: MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread  (Read 225269 times)
BitThink
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February 03, 2014, 09:53:24 AM
 #3221

As you already pointed above, they talked too much (media presence, conference talk, ...) but there're much less real work on coding (there's not even official mastercoind) be done. All real codes are come from the community (Mastercoin-explorer, ...). Neither JR nor Ron is a professional programmer, and yet they decided to recruit full time developers only on last December.
Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.  If you like the quick buck, go with one of the projects which are all glossy brochures like NXT.  

I am not sure whether you have got me wrong, because what I said was exactly there were too much marketing and too less work on a solid platform for Mastercoin.

Maybe you mean the slow progress is because they want to build a solid platform. Actually there's no code, let alone solid code. There're no one working on an official parsing program until Tachochima published his mastercoin-explorer. Then he and his friend was just recruited as full time developers last month, and they both said they cannot completely leave their current job until this February and the timeline of Mastercoind can only be determined then.

Moreover, the price of mastercoin was pumped from 0.01 to 0.25 when there's nothing solid available, and even a simple sending is troublesome. Do you think this is a good example for you to show 'Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.'?
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February 03, 2014, 10:14:14 AM
 #3222

As you already pointed above, they talked too much (media presence, conference talk, ...) but there're much less real work on coding (there's not even official mastercoind) be done. All real codes are come from the community (Mastercoin-explorer, ...). Neither JR nor Ron is a professional programmer, and yet they decided to recruit full time developers only on last December.
Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.  If you like the quick buck, go with one of the projects which are all glossy brochures like NXT.  

I am not sure whether you have got me wrong, because what I said was exactly there were too much marketing and too less work on a solid platform for Mastercoin.

Maybe you mean the slow progress is because they want to build a solid platform. Actually there's no code, let alone solid code. There're no one working on an official parsing program until Tachochima published his mastercoin-explorer. Then he and his friend was just recruited as full time developers last month, and they both said they cannot completely leave their current job until this February and the timeline of Mastercoind can only be determined then.

Moreover, the price of mastercoin was pumped from 0.01 to 0.25 when there's nothing solid available, and even a simple sending is troublesome. Do you think this is a good example for you to show 'Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.'?

BitThink i agree with every word. The good news is that J.R and MSC Foundation Team also agree with you and thus they are speeding things up. Competition is healthy for MSC.

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BitThink
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February 03, 2014, 10:23:40 AM
 #3223

As you already pointed above, they talked too much (media presence, conference talk, ...) but there're much less real work on coding (there's not even official mastercoind) be done. All real codes are come from the community (Mastercoin-explorer, ...). Neither JR nor Ron is a professional programmer, and yet they decided to recruit full time developers only on last December.
Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.  If you like the quick buck, go with one of the projects which are all glossy brochures like NXT.  

I am not sure whether you have got me wrong, because what I said was exactly there were too much marketing and too less work on a solid platform for Mastercoin.

Maybe you mean the slow progress is because they want to build a solid platform. Actually there's no code, let alone solid code. There're no one working on an official parsing program until Tachochima published his mastercoin-explorer. Then he and his friend was just recruited as full time developers last month, and they both said they cannot completely leave their current job until this February and the timeline of Mastercoind can only be determined then.

Moreover, the price of mastercoin was pumped from 0.01 to 0.25 when there's nothing solid available, and even a simple sending is troublesome. Do you think this is a good example for you to show 'Building a solid platform is the goal, not rushing to market to impress the trading community to pump up the price.'?

BitThink i agree with every word. The good news is that J.R and MSC Foundation Team also agree with you and thus they are speeding things up. Competition is healthy for MSC.

Thanks peled1986.

Actually I am not blaming anyone. The slow progress was just an unfortunate fact, and fortunately now both J.R and Ron have realized this and have recruited full time developers. Later is always better than never. I wish all the best to Mastercoin project, and actually I am one of the investors (a small one) myself.
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February 03, 2014, 10:24:54 AM
 #3224

Actually there's no code, let alone solid code.
Your credibility is zero.  There is code.  This proves your understanding of the situation is totally corrupt and biased towards complaining.  

They built four implementations - to rigorously prove the protocol produces the same result no matter who is interpreting the rule.  This took some time.  They ended up removing shitloads of ambiguities which could become problematic later.  

Now, with their experience getting stung by the bitchy public, they aren't going to release the DEx in such an 'alpha' state.  But rather, they will make the DEx a little more consumer ready on the release date.  This takes time.  

If you say one more time that the coders are not working hard, I am going to personally fly to your city and kick your ass.  They are all working double-overtime to make this thing work and raise the price of your miserable holdings.  You probably only own 3 MSC.  Now shut the fuck up and help by contributing to the project.  Whadda dick.

actually I am one of the investors (a small one) myself.
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February 03, 2014, 10:48:32 AM
 #3225

Apparently, egocentrism is not the same as narcissism. Just love the thought provoking stuff on these threads sometimes.  Roll Eyes
peled1986
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February 03, 2014, 10:58:15 AM
 #3226

Your credibility is zero.  There is code.  
I am sure BitThink knows there is code at work. His point was that he thinks progress could have been faster. Do you disagree? I think even J.R will agree to that, he left his job to speed development. From the Master Protocol Developer Updates it does seem that the developers are working double-overtime.

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February 03, 2014, 11:03:28 AM
 #3227

As you already pointed above, they talked too much (media presence, conference talk, ...) but there're much less real work on coding (there's not even official mastercoind) be done. All real codes are come from the community (Mastercoin-explorer, ...). Neither JR nor Ron is a professional programmer, and yet they decided to recruit full time developers only on last December.

Just a correction to above, both are professional and experienced developers, holding advanced CS degrees. I don't know J.R. personally, but I can attest that Ron has a rich resume (including position at Google), so it would be incorrect to label them as such.

Management is a bit different animal, and while it indeed took them a little time to get started, I expect that competition with XCP and other 2nd gen's will only be for the benefit of the MSC community.

I prefer to think of MSC as long-term start-up, similar in it's approach to Google, which prefers long term revenues over short-term gains, stably increasing the MSC price over time. Time will tell how well this approach works in the frenzied crypto world.
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February 03, 2014, 11:32:00 AM
 #3228

To be fair XCP was also a hurry launch, counterpartyd code can barely held together. Their approach is to release alpha product and let users test with real xcp. Reference client shouldn't be done in python as library dependency issues, plus it's not type safe, the client has been crashing many times due to runtime exceptions, silly bugs, etc. I hope the community help rebuilding it as something self-contained like a jar package.
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February 03, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
 #3229

Actually there's no code, let alone solid code.
Your credibility is zero.  There is code.  This proves your understanding of the situation is totally corrupt and biased towards complaining.  

They built four implementations - to rigorously prove the protocol produces the same result no matter who is interpreting the rule.  This took some time.  They ended up removing shitloads of ambiguities which could become problematic later.  

Now, with their experience getting stung by the bitchy public, they aren't going to release the DEx in such an 'alpha' state.  But rather, they will make the DEx a little more consumer ready on the release date.  This takes time.  

If you say one more time that the coders are not working hard, I am going to personally fly to your city and kick your ass.  They are all working double-overtime to make this thing work and raise the price of your miserable holdings.  You probably only own 3 MSC.  Now shut the fuck up and help by contributing to the project.  Whadda dick.

actually I am one of the investors (a small one) myself.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anything like the developers are not working hard. I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster. In that case, the Dex would've not been in an 'alpha' state at all.

I respect all the developers of Mastercoin for their hard working, but remember they were doing their hard working within their precious leisure time. They can only have the chance to leave their day jobs now. The four implementations you mentioned were all come from community, not by full time developers. Some of them are even not for bounties. I credit those to the great community, rather than the foundation which has more than enough funds.

When I said there's no code, I mean the reference implementation of Mastercoind (written in Go). I know Tachicoma and his friend will work on it, but since they haven't left their previous jobs yet, so I don't think there're much progress yet. I will be happy if I am wrong.

BTW, I don't like personal attacking like you did. I own significantly more than 3 MSC, but that does not matter. Owning more MSC will not make my statement true, less not make it false. I just try to evaluate the current situation as objective as I can. No hype and no FUD.

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February 03, 2014, 11:36:12 AM
 #3230

To be fair XCP was also a hurry launch, counterpartyd code is barely held together. Their approach is to release alpha product and let users test with real xcp. Reference client shouldn't be done in python as library dependency issues, plus it's not type safe, the client has been crashing many times due to runtime exceptions, silly bugs, etc. I hope the community help rebuilding it as something self-contained like a jar package.
I agree with you. Actually I prefer Go to Java. I planned to rewrite the whole counterpartyd with Go, but failed due to lack of time. It, however, may not take a lot of work. I guess an experienced Go programmer (better than me) could finish porting in less than a week.

They initially try to test XCP with test BTC, but found nobody is testing cause almost no one is using test BTC. Building test XCP based on real BTC, like MSC did, could be a better idea.
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February 03, 2014, 11:37:23 AM
 #3231

Your credibility is zero.  There is code.  
I am sure BitThink knows there is code at work. His point was that he thinks progress could have been faster. Do you disagree? I think even J.R will agree to that, he left his job to speed development. From the Master Protocol Developer Updates it those seem that the developers are working double-overtime.
Thank you, peled1986. Really appreciate your help in clarification.
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February 03, 2014, 11:43:47 AM
 #3232

To be fair XCP was also a hurry launch, counterpartyd code can barely held together. Their approach is to release alpha product and let users test with real xcp. Reference client shouldn't be done in python as library dependency issues, plus it's not type safe, the client has been crashing many times due to runtime exceptions, silly bugs, etc. I hope the community help rebuilding it as something self-contained like a jar package.

While you have some points, do remember that Python allows a very rapid prototyping of concepts. In fact, BTC itself was prototyped in Python first.
So while in the long term, switching to any typesafe language is definitely preferable, for testing the concepts Python will do just well.
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February 03, 2014, 12:51:07 PM
 #3233

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.

Quote
We will be dividing our time between Mastercoin and our old workplace since we sadly can’t just get up and leave them without proper notice. We will be starting with a 20% position in January and should be full-time in April. Although there is still a chance we might be able to go full-time quicker than that.

http://blog.mastercoin.org/2013/12/31/introducing-first-two-full-time-mastercoin-developers/
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February 03, 2014, 02:19:53 PM
 #3234

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.
Impatient idiots like BitThink want this to happen overnight.  I think the opposite of him.  MSC made insane steps forward in the first two months.  JR was very excited by the progress from day 1 and I was too.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  BitThink just wants it to be released overnight.  This shows he doesn't understand software development.  That isn't how it works.  If MSC had 25 million in the bank, they could spin up a staff of 10 overnight and pay out all the old work contracts.  But that is not necessary.  What's the hurry? 
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February 03, 2014, 02:33:43 PM
 #3235

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.
Impatient idiots like BitThink want this to happen overnight.  I think the opposite of him.  MSC made insane steps forward in the first two months.  JR was very excited by the progress from day 1 and I was too.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  BitThink just wants it to be released overnight.  This shows he doesn't understand software development.  That isn't how it works.  If MSC had 25 million in the bank, they could spin up a staff of 10 overnight and pay out all the old work contracts.  But that is not necessary.  What's the hurry?  

I agree there are good things going on. Thing is everyone's buying into the hype of these new releases that over-promise  and will most likely under-deliver.

What people don't get is that MSC has 1st mover advantage, which is way bigger than people think. They have a distributed exchange in very advanced stage, which competition doesn't have. All competition has is decentralized chat and BS like that, something that existed for years (checkTorchat).

I also think you've misread BitThink. He's not impatient. He just owns stake in this other 2.0 coin, just check his sig. Not even sure he owns any MSCs. He obviously owns way more Counterparty coins tham Mastercoin judging by his sig.

However, I don't see MSC price going up short term because of these new upcoming releases eMunie and Ethereum. Lots of people will buy into that. This Max coin, which is another crap coin is getting lots of hype also. This context offers best Mastercoin buying opportunity since the Exodus address IPO.


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February 03, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
 #3236

However, I don't see MSC price going up short term because of these new upcoming releases eMunie and Ethereum. Lots of people will buy into that. This Max coin, which is another crap coin is getting lots of hype also. This context offers best Mastercoin buying opportunity since the Exodus address IPO.

Let people sell their MSC to buy eMunie.  Who cares?  This only reduces the price of MSC - it doesn't subtract from the value.  The value of the Master protocol lies in the functionality which can be built rather than the current price on the MasterXchange.  Because the MSC market is so very thin and inefficient the price means almost nothing.  A few jittery speculators can take the price from .25 to .10 in a few days.  The only people who care about that are those who are forced to liquidate a MSC position today.  However, those who will be holding MSC for more than 1 year don't give a damn what the price is today.  In one year, the true value of MSC will start to show.  The price will reflect the value of MSC then. Today, the price is merely wild speculators jumping from one ship to another without regard whatever for the underlying technology.  

Look at NXT - garbage.  Solves nothing at all.  The 'green' solution.  lol.  Energy consumption via mining is very small.  Nobody is leaving the bitcoin for eco-reasons.  Yet, some good marketing and Wham!  Market cap of billions.  Speculators are easily moved by hype.  But that doesn't effect how fast the coders at MSC can write good code.  People come to these forums screaming and yelling about urgency - to pump up their position and the price of their current bet.  All of these projects will take time to build well.  

If you want to make a quick buck - go tell the world how important Dogecoin is - then sell next week.  Otherwise, think of some way you can contribute to making Mastercoin more useful.  Bitthink isn't doing anyone favors by standing around yelling 'hurry'.  Contrary to what he says, MSC is advancing at a very good pace.  His failure to understand this only affects very few people and most of those a mere speculators playing with various alts.  

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February 03, 2014, 03:44:40 PM
 #3237

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.

Quote
We will be dividing our time between Mastercoin and our old workplace since we sadly can’t just get up and leave them without proper notice. We will be starting with a 20% position in January and should be full-time in April. Although there is still a chance we might be able to go full-time quicker than that.

http://blog.mastercoin.org/2013/12/31/introducing-first-two-full-time-mastercoin-developers/

Not according to this post:
http://www.nl.reddit.com/r/mastercoin/comments/1wieea/mastercoind_update_from_maran_and_jeff_go/

"Note that Maran & Jeff were only employed at a 20% during January. This will change to 100% pretty in Feb, and development speed is bound to increase significantly."
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February 04, 2014, 02:17:37 AM
 #3238

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.
Impatient idiots like BitThink want this to happen overnight.  I think the opposite of him.  MSC made insane steps forward in the first two months.  JR was very excited by the progress from day 1 and I was too.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  BitThink just wants it to be released overnight.  This shows he doesn't understand software development.  That isn't how it works.  If MSC had 25 million in the bank, they could spin up a staff of 10 overnight and pay out all the old work contracts.  But that is not necessary.  What's the hurry?  

I agree there are good things going on. Thing is everyone's buying into the hype of these new releases that over-promise  and will most likely under-deliver.

What people don't get is that MSC has 1st mover advantage, which is way bigger than people think. They have a distributed exchange in very advanced stage, which competition doesn't have. All competition has is decentralized chat and BS like that, something that existed for years (checkTorchat).

I also think you've misread BitThink. He's not impatient. He just owns stake in this other 2.0 coin, just check his sig. Not even sure he owns any MSCs. He obviously owns way more Counterparty coins tham Mastercoin judging by his sig.

However, I don't see MSC price going up short term because of these new upcoming releases eMunie and Ethereum. Lots of people will buy into that. This Max coin, which is another crap coin is getting lots of hype also. This context offers best Mastercoin buying opportunity since the Exodus address IPO.
I invested more on MSC than XCP. If I am not interested on MSC, I will not be here.

I've only had two sigs ever. The current one is to promote my own explorer site (now replaced with a better one developed by mtbitcoin), and the previous one is to promote Mastercoin faucet.

Last word, remember the price of MSC only depends on the progress of the project, not people saying good or bad here. Fortunately, JR and the foundation took the complaints seriously and not like what you did here.

BitThink
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February 04, 2014, 02:29:12 AM
 #3239

I'm just saying they could be hired full time long ago and then the progress could be much faster.

This is what the board did after a couple of bounty projects. Back in november, they hired the best elements (almost all).

Can you imagine that almost all the DEV were already working and decided to drop their jobs and bosses to switch to MSC. It's not happening in 1 day. So it took a couple of weeks to regulate their situations and switch full time to MSC project. End of March tachikoma & his buddy/colleague will be 100% available.

Quote
We will be dividing our time between Mastercoin and our old workplace since we sadly can’t just get up and leave them without proper notice. We will be starting with a 20% position in January and should be full-time in April. Although there is still a chance we might be able to go full-time quicker than that.

http://blog.mastercoin.org/2013/12/31/introducing-first-two-full-time-mastercoin-developers/
In stead of opinions, I will just list some facts here.
The white paper version 0.1 was published on 1/6/2013, and the fund raising was finished on 31/8/2013. Back in November, Peter Todd was hired full time as a scientist. Tachikoma (author of Mastercoin-explorer) and his friend was hired full time on late December (but will only be really full time until April 2014), and Zathras (author of Masterchest.info) on 10 January.
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February 04, 2014, 02:34:54 AM
 #3240

Panel Ethereum, Mastercoin, Protoshares (video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9miCOsg4g#t=1541


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