MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread

[peled1986]

My intention was not to start a witch-hunt; I thought I remembered hearing/reading that Ron knows the buymastercoin guy, but I do not have a source to support that, so please don't rely on me for that information.

What alias is behind buymastercoin.org? dacoinminster?

Not I! I believe it's somebody in Israel. Ron (our Executive Director) knows him personally. Typically he handles dark orders from buyers and sellers who wish to remain anonymous.

I believe he has a buymastercoin forum user which he uses for communication on this thread.

I think this is the source you read that supports it. I am also against a witch-hunt, I just think that Ron should comment about his relationship / opinion on http://www.buymastercoin.com/.

[bitexch]

My intention was not to start a witch-hunt; I thought I remembered hearing/reading that Ron knows the buymastercoin guy, but I do not have a source to support that, so please don't rely on me for that information.

What alias is behind buymastercoin.org? dacoinminster?

Not I! I believe it's somebody in Israel. Ron (our Executive Director) knows him personally. Typically he handles dark orders from buyers and sellers who wish to remain anonymous.

I believe he has a buymastercoin forum user which he uses for communication on this thread.

I think this is the source you read that supports it. I am also against a witch-hunt, I just think that Ron should comment about his relationship / opinion on http://www.buymastercoin.com/.

+1
Thanks for the source.

[ofer]

Hi all,

I want to comment on the buymastercoin topic.
First of all - I don't know the operator of the site - I am speaking for myself only.

There are other sites like this for Bitcoin as well, you can look at:
https://www.coinmama.com/#buy
ebay, etc.

All of them are selling bitcoins for a very high rate.

I think that these sites are legit:
These sites serves as a short cut for people that just don't do or don't want to do their homework.

These kind of sites are serving a good purpose, not everyone should know the forums and trust this forum price, especially newcomers that wants to get on the train before it leaves, and don't have the time to learn.

The same thing happens in my bank as well - the interest rates for deposits are always lower than the interest rates I can get if I buy state bonds.
This is how economy works.

I also think that the mastercoin foundation didn't do any harm in publishing it. As a follower of mastercoin from its first day, I can say that they published it in mastercoin.org when nothing else was happening as a PR for mastercoin eco-system.
The Google spreadsheet was always published as well.

Just because someone (very smart I guess) is making money doesn't make him a thief.

Hope this helps.

[bitexch]

Just because someone (very smart I guess) is making money doesn't make him a thief.

+1.
But again, I would contest your claim that buymastercoin is associated with the mastercoin foundation; there is no link to buymastercoin.com on mastercoinfoundation.org, only mastercoin.org

EDIT: Or at least, I would need one of the board members to tell us that the foundation owns the domain name mastercoin.org

[peer2peer360]

Question if i purchased a product and/or service without performing due diligence,  am i not the one to blame?

If i fail to do my own research or homework before i made an important decision then who am i to blame?

If i bought a home at $500,000 usd & the home is only worth 275,000 usd is it rightfully to call
The real estate agent or the home owner a scammer because i  agreed to pay that price & i fail to the proper thing  (due diligence)?

If & when mastercoins is worth $1000 a piece will those who scream scam be saying the same thing by then?

May 2014 be a prosperous year for you

Best regards
Peer2peer360

[jeroenn13]

Question if i purchased a product and/or service without performing due diligence,  am i not the one to blame?

If i fail to do my own research or homework before i made an important decision then who am i to blame?

If i bought a home at $500,000 usd & the home is only worth 275,000 usd is it rightfully to call
The real estate agent or the home owner a scammer because i  agreed to pay that price & i fail to the proper thing  (due diligence)?

If & when mastercoins is worth $1000 a piece will those who scream scam be saying the same thing by then?

May 2014 be a prosperous year for you

Best regards
Peer2peer360

I agree, +1

[hmmmstrange]

Question if i purchased a product and/or service without performing due diligence,  am i not the one to blame?

If i fail to do my own research or homework before i made an important decision then who am i to blame?

If i bought a home at $500,000 usd & the home is only worth 275,000 usd is it rightfully to call
The real estate agent or the home owner a scammer because i  agreed to pay that price & i fail to the proper thing  (due diligence)?

If & when mastercoins is worth $1000 a piece will those who scream scam be saying the same thing by then?

May 2014 be a prosperous year for you

Best regards
Peer2peer360

There should be 2 real estate agents involved. If your agent was in cahoots with the selling agent then yes, your agent is a scammer. If your agent is acting as both the buying agent and selling agent, again they are responsible for not scamming either of the buyer or seller.

[hmmmstrange]

Just because someone (very smart I guess) is making money doesn't make him a thief.

+1.
But again, I would contest your claim that buymastercoin is associated with the mastercoin foundation; there is no link to buymastercoin.com on mastercoinfoundation.org, only mastercoin.org

EDIT: Or at least, I would need one of the board members to tell us that the foundation owns the domain name mastercoin.org

Ron Gross owns mastercoin.org.

[daviducsb]

If you have a secure BTC wallet it will also be secure for your MSC.
At this point there is no MSC wallet yet, they are simply in your BTC wallet.

As long as you have the private keys to your wallet you can have your mastercoins in there as well.
You shouldn't pay extra for information that is free to find.

If you have questions about Mastercoin you should ask them in this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.2560

Thank you for the thread info.

I have researched it a bit. So a btc wallet with no btc in it is fine, as long as I have the private key?

It seems the steps would be, 1) find seller on this thread, 2) arrange to buy , send BTC payment, 3) check master chest.info that the coins are really on the wallet

Am I missing anything?

Are there some sellers on here more trusted than others that you all would recommend to fill my order? I have a good feeling about this thread and the sellers in general. Someone pointed out maxmint. I will contact him. Any others? Thanks much.

[hmmmstrange]

If you have a secure BTC wallet it will also be secure for your MSC.
At this point there is no MSC wallet yet, they are simply in your BTC wallet.

As long as you have the private keys to your wallet you can have your mastercoins in there as well.
You shouldn't pay extra for information that is free to find.

If you have questions about Mastercoin you should ask them in this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.2560

Thank you for the thread info.

I have researched it a bit. So a btc wallet with no btc in it is fine, as long as I have the private key?

It seems the steps would be, 1) find seller on this thread, 2) arrange to buy , send BTC payment, 3) check master chest.info that the coins are really on the wallet

Am I missing anything?

Are there some sellers on here more trusted than others that you all would recommend to fill my order? I have a good feeling about this thread and the sellers in general. Someone pointed out maxmint. I will contact him. Any others? Thanks much.

You can use http://mcoin.io
You can create a buy order and if someone wants to fill it, use maxmint for escrow.

[prophetx]

Just because someone (very smart I guess) is making money doesn't make him a thief.

+1.
But again, I would contest your claim that buymastercoin is associated with the mastercoin foundation; there is no link to buymastercoin.com on mastercoinfoundation.org, only mastercoin.org

EDIT: Or at least, I would need one of the board members to tell us that the foundation owns the domain name mastercoin.org

Ron Gross owns mastercoin.org.

Mastercoin.org and mastercoinfoundation.org are the property of Mastercoin Foundation, Inc. a Delaware registered non-profit corporation.

Ron has disclosed multiple times that he knows the guy running buymastercoin and therefor stays out of decisions involving that entity. I think he even says it in a video somewhere...

Could anyone explain me please in average Joe words how can I purchase MC, does it have it's own client, where my MCs would be stored etc,e tc as I don't understand a shit about this but would test my luck investing few satoshis.

Unfortunately as far as I know the only real way to do orders right now is buymastercoin.com/
From what I hear it's very hard to get liquidity otherwise.

HUGE DISCLAIMER: The owner of buymastercoin is a friend of mine, and most of my information about the market is from him. So buyer beware, do your homework. If you manage to buy via OTC in a cheaper price, power to you!

Initially there were (still are) a ton of links on the mastercoin.org website, which is going to get redesigned because it looks like a spaghetti monster of links, and it was thought that the link to buymastercoin would help people who didn't have the time to negotiate with people on the order book.  That link now goes to a wiki page were anyone can add their exchange, order book or whatever for buying/selling.  

[ejinte]

Question if i purchased a product and/or service without performing due diligence,  am i not the one to blame?

If i fail to do my own research or homework before i made an important decision then who am i to blame?

If i bought a home at $500,000 usd & the home is only worth 275,000 usd is it rightfully to call
The real estate agent or the home owner a scammer because i  agreed to pay that price & i fail to the proper thing  (due diligence)?

If & when mastercoins is worth $1000 a piece will those who scream scam be saying the same thing by then?

May 2014 be a prosperous year for you

Best regards
Peer2peer360

If they go to $1000 I will only have $5000 and not $15000 or $20000 and I will feel as stupid then as today.

Sure I should have done my research, I've accepted that know. To trust that the offical mastercoin webpage gives good recommendation was WRONG and I won't trust mastercoin.com, the mastercoin fondation or this Ron dude again, and I would like to share my experiance to let other know about this too. Do you think that's wierd?

But if you think this amount of MTC is not a biggy then maybe you or someone else could give me my loses? It would be a nice gesture.

[bitexch]

Just because someone (very smart I guess) is making money doesn't make him a thief.

+1.
But again, I would contest your claim that buymastercoin is associated with the mastercoin foundation; there is no link to buymastercoin.com on mastercoinfoundation.org, only mastercoin.org

EDIT: Or at least, I would need one of the board members to tell us that the foundation owns the domain name mastercoin.org

Ron Gross owns mastercoin.org.

Mastercoin.org and mastercoinfoundation.org are the property of Mastercoin Foundation, Inc. a Delaware registered non-profit corporation.

Ron has disclosed multiple times that he knows the guy running buymastercoin and therefor stays out of decisions involving that entity. I think he even says it in a video somewhere...

You seem to be missing the point: if a domain owned by the Mastercoin Foundation references a certain exchange, the exchange is implicitly given an objective legitimacy. If it turns out that the owner of that exchange is the friend of a board member and, moreover, the exchange is charging 2-3x the market-rate, then you can surely see how this would  make the board seem less legitimate!?

If newcomers are the ones who are complaining, then the fact that Ron made a post a month ago saying he's friends with buymastercoin, and that he once mentioned it in some video isn't helpful; newcomers who are using buymastercoin are not combing through the archives!

I want to reiterate that I am not criticizing buymastercoin for having a huge profit margin - more power to him! This is directed at Ron and implicitly the rest of the board.

[td services]

+1

I suggest, to promote goodwill, that buymastercoin.com should offer refunds calculated by subtracting the most recent sale price from the purchase price they charged the customer at the time of transaction to determine a spread, and then adding that spread to the current most recent sell price at the time of refund to the customer. I can see subtracting a few percent from the refund to cover buymastercoin's expenses and time.

[bitexch]

+1

I suggest, to promote goodwill, that buymastercoin.com should offer refunds calculated by subtracting the most recent sale price from the purchase price they charged the customer at the time of transaction to determine a spread, and then adding that spread to the current most recent sell price at the time of refund to the customer. I can see subtracting a few percent from the refund to cover buymastercoin's expenses and time.

buymastercoin is not a board member (as far as we know), why should he give refunds?

If buymastercoin wants to regain legitimacy he can give a refund, but this will only be if he feels like it- the community has absolutely no say. As long as buymastercoin has no formal association with the mastercoin foundation, he's not guilty of anything. He surely knew that his exorbitant mark-up could not continue forever. It has however gone on longer than would otherwise have been possible without implicit endorsement from the board.

The board, not buymastercoin, is obviously to blame for the reasons given in my previous post.

[DGulari]

Everyone is in this game to make profit. Everyone is in everything to make profit. If people can't do their own research and find the market price, than so be it. They will buy at a higher price if they want, and if they due diligence on the price, they will find the best price.

The sellers set the prices they want to sell at, so stop attacking all these people for selling at higher prices than market. The 0.3 price is cheaper than the 0.7 that dacoinminister (founder) is selling, so everyone should stop busting buymastercoin's balls.

Especially DGulari, this guy is always flipping shit on all mastercoin threads, accusing some people of scammers and such. Because he can't find any buyers for his prefunded order..

Make a profit all you want.  I don't have anything against profit.  Nobody is complaining about that.  Also, charge whatever price you want.  Fine.  

What we are against is deception and trickery.  buymastercoin is a fucking trick because they take advantage of their position on the official site to suck in those not sophisticated enough to find the real market.  The trick actually works!  There is at least one guy here who trusted the official site to put a decent recommendation to honorable sales agent - which turned out to be bullshit and it cost the guy thousands of dollars.  Buymastercoin.com is a dishonest scam agent.  Their prices and marketing tactics are bullshit.  I knew this from the very start when they started spamming the blockchain with adds during the Mastercoin buy-in / Exodus process.  Fuck them.

[DGulari]

He is the same guy as TKeenan and probably Tom Hirsch - just hit Ignore..

Look you dumb-ass, you've had me on 'ignore' for ages.  Why the fuck don't you just ignore me then?  Instead, you keep reading my shit and commenting with your dumb ass eye rolls.  Can't your brain figure out how to actually ignore someone?  Dick.  Big bag of dicks for you to munch on.

[DGulari]

+1
I suggest, to promote goodwill, that buymastercoin.com should offer refunds

Scammers don't give refunds.  Only when legitimate businesses determine their customers are not satisfied with the transaction do refunds come.  buymastercoins.com is a scam operation with unfair prices preying upon those without complete knowledge.  Too bad some trusting people get tricked.  It is a tough world.  But I object to Mastercoin.org participating in the scam.  That part is bullshit.  If buymastercoin.com wants to charge 10X - I am totally for it.  I just don't think the official organization ought to participate because Ron is friends with the guy.  Clear conflict of interest.

[milkyman]

Important update

I'm quoting myself from another thread here:

I just launched mcoin.io, a self-service Mastercoin order book. It will hopefully replace or at least complement the manually managed Google order book.
As soon as the distributed Mastercoin exchange is fully working, mcoin.io most likely will become obsolete. But I hope it helps people to buy and sell Mastercoins in the meantime.

Some features:
- You can add and remove your own sell / buy orders (no need to wait for manual updates)
- Balances of addresses get verified, fake orders can't be created
- You can create prefunded orders and edit prices yourself
- Prefunded orders can be bought directly from the site, no need for direct contact or escrow (as long as you trust me). Sending of Mastercoins will be done manually though, no private keys or funds are stored on the server.
- No need to create an account at the site and no passwords to be lost or stolen. Everything is based on signing messages with your Mastercoin / Bitcoin address.

I don't know how to sign a message with my address
I created a little tutorial to help you get started with this: http://mcoin.io/#/help

What about the manual Google order book?
From now on, I'm asking everyone to submit their orders to the new self-service order book at mcoin.io. The manual Google order book will still be accessible for a while but I'm strongly encouraging everyone to test the new order book.

Bugs and suggestions
The new site is still in beta and I guess there's lots of room for improvements. Please let me know about bugs, typos and suggestions.

As said above, the Google order book will still be around and I might make manual updates when I'm around (although less often than I used too).
But I'm really encouraging everyone to use the new order book. If you have bug reports or suggestions, please post them in the other thread as this buyer / seller thread should be reserved for posting of orders.

Hi maxmint,

that's great news! Great description about how to sign a message - this worked fine for me.
Some critics: Right now, there is somebody selling pre-funded MSC. If I click "Buy now", a window appears into which I can enter my MSC receiving address and optionally an email address. A few things I don't understand:

- Why is a contact address optional? If I don't enter anything, how do you contact me?

- It is a pre-funded order. Isn't it the easiest, if the receiving BTC address of the seller is already displayed? I could just send the BTC to this address immediately. To prove that it was me sending the BTC, you could also here add a field for verifying that I owned the sending BTC address.

- As it is now, it seems like I have to buy ALL the MSC the seller offers. Can't I buy only a few?

edit: Or do these things appear later after I would have pressed the "Buy Now" butten? I didn't dare to press it :/

[milkyman]

more questions:

- Is there only a fee for pre-funded orders?

- Why can't I make a pre-funded MSC buy-order?