MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread

[Patel]

Hey guys,

Rather than post updates here, I've decided to keep a public document with my current prices: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eYI_R8leBvV5-UhsTuDi3WqhpMAxiTRvTw8e2m2jpKY/edit?usp=sharing

Check that document out if you are looking to buy a large block of MSC without moving the market.

Thanks!

And down it goes!

Jr's Selling prices:

    0.15 BTC/MSC for orders under 50 BTC
    0.14 BTC/MSC for orders under 100 BTC
    0.13 BTC/MSC for orders above 100 BTC

[mishax1]

 

[StarenseN]

Hey guys,

Rather than post updates here, I've decided to keep a public document with my current prices: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eYI_R8leBvV5-UhsTuDi3WqhpMAxiTRvTw8e2m2jpKY/edit?usp=sharing

Check that document out if you are looking to buy a large block of MSC without moving the market.

Thanks!

Genius ! I applause with my both feet.

You know what? By keeping lowering the price like this you can still wait before any buyer. How will someone buy at you if in the meantime it's possible that you crash/screw us again the market (for a piggy wife or something) and lower again the price without any notification ?

Next time, this kind of agreement is made privately OTC THEN optionaly disclosed. Like the 140K btc sale we saw last month (with the peak in bitcoin days destroyed). This is call professionalism or something like this. Not sandplaying.

My advice and for the benefits of anybody here: sell them at no loss (i.e. 0.01), don't quit your job, stay with your familly (please do) and leave the project.

Thanks.

[dacoinminster]

Please note that the number available is lower now.

[Patel]

Please note that the number available is lower now.

Makes no sense, those people buying must be retarded, because orders @ .115 are getting filled on masterxchange.

Unless your selling lower than your actually saying.

[SyRenity]

Wow, and the market reacts with 0.124 on MSCXchange.

[DarkEmi]

Here is what I feel will happens roughly :

if (JRprice == x)
{
     masterXchangePrice = x - 10%;
}

In my humble opinion, trading OTC will impact the market more than trading quietly on an exchange.

First, all trades impact the quantities available in the same way, if you sell 1000 MSC OTC, that will always be 1000 MSC that wont be bought on the market. There is no "if you dont trade on the exchange the price will not be impacted !".
Thats an economical fallacy; the price converges to the same value everywhere and the exchange is a part of the market in the same way that the OTC is.

Second, saying that you have X quantities to sell at Y prices is much worse than trading them little by little : As long as the market expect a bigger quantity to be traded, the price will correct itself until the price discovery process is finished. Thats like bill gates announcing that he will sell 1% of MSFT the next week. What huge holders are doing is that they pay brokers to liquidate the quantities as quietly as possible on the marketplaces.

Having said all that, I will add that this is only an opinion and that its really great that JR is commiting himself to Mastercoin full time

This is all fascinating to follow in term of economic theory

[Mk2vr6]

So is masterxchange the best place for decent prices?

[Patel]

So is masterxchange the best place for decent prices?

yup. pretty much the only exchange

[DarkEmi]

Well in my opinion it is the most "efficient" marketplace currently for mastercoin (ie with the most liquidity since it is basically the only one)

So its possible to buy lower or higher if you trade elsewhere, but unless you are a professionnal you'll probably end up getting a better deal on an exchange.

[dacoinminster]

Here is what I feel will happens roughly :

if (JRprice == x)
{
     masterXchangePrice = x - 10%;
}

In my humble opinion, trading OTC will impact the market more than trading quietly on an exchange.

First, all trades impact the quantities available in the same way, if you sell 1000 MSC OTC, that will always be 1000 MSC that wont be bought on the market. There is no "if you dont trade on the exchange the price will not be impacted !".
Thats an economical fallacy; the price converges to the same value everywhere and the exchange is a part of the market in the same way that the OTC is.

Second, saying that you have X quantities to sell at Y prices is much worse than trading them little by little : As long as the market expect a bigger quantity to be traded, the price will correct itself until the price discovery process is finished. Thats like bill gates announcing that he will sell 1% of MSFT the next week. What huge holders are doing is that they pay brokers to liquidate the quantities as quietly as possible on the marketplaces.

Having said all that, I will add that this is only an opinion and that its really great that JR is commiting himself to Mastercoin full time

This is all fascinating to follow in term of economic theory

Yeah, by doing this so publicly, I'm basically ensuring that the price drop happens BEFORE I sell, rather than my sell causing the price to drop. If I had sold privately, the price would have still gone down, and nobody would have known why until somebody noticed in the block chain that J.R.'s coins were being sold, potentially causing a HUGE panic.

It seems clear that I would have done a LOT better doing this privately, without telling anybody what I was doing until somebody noticed my coins being sold, but this way seems more ethical to me.

[mishax1]

Well, there are over 9000msc on masterxchange - https://masterchest.info/lookupadd.aspx?address=1MaStErt4XsYHPwfrN9TpgdURLhHTdMenH

It will be a hard ride..

[Mk2vr6]

Here is what I feel will happens roughly :

if (JRprice == x)
{
     masterXchangePrice = x - 10%;
}

In my humble opinion, trading OTC will impact the market more than trading quietly on an exchange.

First, all trades impact the quantities available in the same way, if you sell 1000 MSC OTC, that will always be 1000 MSC that wont be bought on the market. There is no "if you dont trade on the exchange the price will not be impacted !".
Thats an economical fallacy; the price converges to the same value everywhere and the exchange is a part of the market in the same way that the OTC is.

Second, saying that you have X quantities to sell at Y prices is much worse than trading them little by little : As long as the market expect a bigger quantity to be traded, the price will correct itself until the price discovery process is finished. Thats like bill gates announcing that he will sell 1% of MSFT the next week. What huge holders are doing is that they pay brokers to liquidate the quantities as quietly as possible on the marketplaces.

Having said all that, I will add that this is only an opinion and that its really great that JR is commiting himself to Mastercoin full time

This is all fascinating to follow in term of economic theory

Yeah, by doing this so publicly, I'm basically ensuring that the price drop happens BEFORE I sell, rather than my sell causing the price to drop. If I had sold privately, the price would have still gone down, and nobody would have known why until somebody noticed in the block chain that J.R.'s coins were being sold, potentially causing a HUGE panic.

It seems clear that I would have done a LOT better doing this privately, without telling anybody what I was doing until somebody noticed my coins being sold, but this way seems more ethical to me.

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

[ElDido]

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

No.
A lot of people have sold lots of coins in the past weeks so a lot of people have bought them.
JR is selling a large amount, it has impacted the price, but there are probably a lot of people ready to enter the market or lower the average price they got in.

[Mk2vr6]

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

Relax.  It is still a tiny percentage of the whole system.  It is good that the price goes down.  Everyone gets an extreme discount.  A few weeks ago, how many people were saying: "damn, the price is too high now.  If only I could get some Mastercoin at a reasonable price - I'd be in big time."  Well, here is that unexpected discount.  JR is going to be saying" I told you so" in about 6 months or a year when MSC is 1:1 with BTC. 

Folks, this is the very last buying opportunity before MSC gets launch due to the cool functionality of the DEx and others.  Mark my words.  Now go buy some very cheap coins.

Thanks. Still learning here 

[crazy_rabbit]

I'm not sure why anyone is bothering debating the market price of something that has virtually no volume what so ever. I'm not even sure why anyone is bothering to trade it before it's even finished.

JR- while I don't fault you for selling some MSC, as a founder, it probably wasn't a very good idea regardless. The market just isn't mature enough to handle it. It's being exacerbated by the fact that you've moved your price lower to chase a market that's running FROM you. I understand that you have a bill to pay, but I'm sure Satoshi's had some hard times too since 2009. Even if it were to pay for his kids cancer, the market would have reacted very badly and it would have cast a perpetual pale over all of Bitcoin. The only reason why the bitcoin narrative isn't "Oh yeah, but that Satoshi Guy is a rich jerk just selling his coins to fleece everyone" is because his coins (for whatever reason) have never moved. I understand your thinking, but I think it's not proving to be such a good idea. Please consider rescinding the offer and pledging some sort of "lock out" period during which your coins will stay put. I understand it's to allow you to work on MSC full time, but the speed at which MSC gets to where it's going isn't as important as getting there intact.

Anyway, my faith isn't shaken, but I respectfully disagree with your sale of coins- at the very minimum you should stick to your original price exclusively. Chasing the market down tingles everyones 'panic' whiskers.

Personally however, even though I think your decision was well reasoned, you've shot yourself in the foot. Any logical potential buyer can only assume you will continue to chase the price down regardless of what you promise at this point. The best thing to do would be to cancel the sale, and if someone contacts you on the side, you can make a private sale without informing the market. Additionally, you've also stolen the market from anyone else who would want to participate in 'trading'. No serious investor would bother buying coin by coin from the exchange if they can get lot chunks from you. You are unfairly competing with your markets co-investors, many of whom got involved with the idea that you would get fabulously rich *one day* and not *sell out to pay bills* today.

If you insist on going ahead with the sale: I would say to make the sale massive and one-time-only. Sell more then 70% of your holdings at --dirt-- cheap prices effectively 're-simulating' the exodus buy in process. Don't let greed get the better of you. Having 30% of what you hold is more then enough to make you fabulously rich if this really takes off and selling 70% dirt cheap should still raise a substantial amount of BTC. Ironically, maybe having 100% of what you have now might threaten your ability to ever really make MSC a hit. Not to mention the project is open source and you seriously, seriously, risk people who are unhappy defecting, and restarting with a new exodus address. By the time MSC is up and running and before it's a market hit, MSC software will be advanced enough in functionality that an "alt-copy" of mastercoin could offer all the same functionality of MSC but feel more "fair" to the users. Litecoin was essentially the reaction of users that felt GPU mining was a sort of unfair initial distribution of wealth. In the case of MSC, a copy-cat would have all the same functionality, but no obvious "rich guy" to sling stones at. XRP keeps the bulk of the ripples to themselves, but they are having serious problems getting over the 'unfairness' feeling. A sense of true "ownership" by members, no matter how small their holdings are, is important to success. With even bitcoin there are still hard feelings over the holding of early adopters. Not that I don't think it's fair: they did take the risk at the beginning. But that's not quite the same with MSC, as everyone had to 'pay' to play, with bitcoin that's become quite valuable. At the end of the day, you still have our BTC. It's only your promise that you won't spend it that keeps it from moving. Selling your MSC as the founder in a way that seems like profiteering, weakens our trust in this idea.

[o3u]

so when is this downtrend turning around?

[crazy_rabbit]

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

No.
A lot of people have sold lots of coins in the past weeks so a lot of people have bought them.
JR is selling a large amount, it has impacted the price, but there are probably a lot of people ready to enter the market or lower the average price they got in.

I think we drastically over estimate how many people are read/willing/interested or even know about, this market.

[tk808]

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

No.
A lot of people have sold lots of coins in the past weeks so a lot of people have bought them.
JR is selling a large amount, it has impacted the price, but there are probably a lot of people ready to enter the market or lower the average price they got in.

I think we drastically over estimate how many people are read/willing/interested or even know about, this market.

Out of the coins that required an IPO, mastercoin is the most lackluster. No one really cares for this coin.

I've invested in most of coins with a fresh architecture, but i will never invest in MSC. It's trying to compete with LTC for a bitcoin secondary.

[crazy_rabbit]

Still quite new to the economics of this, but am I right in saying no one will want to buy now that you have admitted to wanting to dump thousands of coins?

No.
A lot of people have sold lots of coins in the past weeks so a lot of people have bought them.
JR is selling a large amount, it has impacted the price, but there are probably a lot of people ready to enter the market or lower the average price they got in.

I think we drastically over estimate how many people are read/willing/interested or even know about, this market.

Out of the coins that required an IPO, mastercoin is the most lackluster. No one really cares for this coin.

Yeah, as if you've been around long enough to even know.......

Edit to respond to your un-marked stealth edit:

I've invested in most of coins with a fresh architecture, but i will never invest in MSC. It's trying to compete with LTC for a bitcoin secondary.

Thanks for proving me right. :-)