MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread

[klee]

That's great DarkEmi, let me know if I might help you in any way.

Thanks, everything is roughly done so we are in heavy testing mode right now. We hope to release tomorrow but you never know ;-)

MSC/USD pair?

[bitexch]

Disclaimer, I will be launching a concurrent business. But my insatisfaction with the existing one is part of the reason we are doing it.

That's great. Are the details of your business listed somewhere?

[DarkEmi]

MSC / BTC exchange.

[bitexch]

My critic is aimed both at buymastercoin and the mastercoin fondation for promoting that shit. Still they didn't give any official statements although the question has been in this thread for some time now. It seems like the executive director is involved in this ripoff in some way.

Unless I am mistaken, ripper (Ron) has some connection with buymastercoin. This is certainly terrible for Mastercoin's image, but does the mastercoin foundation really promote buymastercoin? I didn't know that.

[ejinte]

My critic is aimed both at buymastercoin and the mastercoin fondation for promoting that shit. Still they didn't give any official statements although the question has been in this thread for some time now. It seems like the executive director is involved in this ripoff in some way.

Unless I am mistaken, ripper (Ron) has some connection with buymastercoin. This is certainly terrible for Mastercoin's image, but does the mastercoin foundation really promote buymastercoin? I didn't know that.

The mastercoin fondation is running mastercoin.com (acording to sources in the thread) and there they promote buymastercoin.org. I might or might not have been the only one to go in this trap

[peled1986]

It is worth stating if people are really so disgusted with buymastercoin, they don't have to sell them their MSCs.

I don't know this but my guess is that buymastercoin has a couple of accounts therefor even if someone was disgusted by buymastercoin it will be hard not to sell to someone that you don't know his identity.

Basically,  buymastercoin is a very normal operation, and I am not quite sure what people want from them.

I agree with you, the problem isn't with buymastercoin operation. I think people want to hear why the foundation thinks promoting his site does more good than bad.

I am not quite sure what people want from them: do they expect buymastercoin to advertise the GoogleDocs orderbook on their homepage? Or to state explicitly that they are charging well above market price?

I don't think anyone is expecting buymastercoin to do any of those things, but i think newcomers and the MSC community is expecting the foundation to point out these points in a very clear way, that newcomers can get an informed decision. If newcomers are informed and still want to pay 200% more in order to get a "SAFE, EASY, and CONVENIENT" trade with buymastercoin, I am sure you will not hear anymore “complaints” against the foundation. Is that not in the interest of the foundation in your opinion?

Does the foundation have no responsibility at all for the sites it promotes? Does Ron Gross - Board Member / Executive Director and J.R. Willett Mastercoin Protocol Founder / Board Treasurer have no opinion about this matter? I would really appreciate to hear their opinion or anyone of the Mastercoin Foundation Board of Directors opinion on this subject. The sooner the better  

If somebody wants to undercut buymastercoin, they can register the domain name "buymastercoinsforcheap" or something, offer the same services, and start raising awareness of buymastercoin's 'unfair' prices.

The foundation hasn't answered this question yet. Will any private exchange website be added to the foundation page? If yes I will have a site ready by the end of the week. I agree that the more competition the better.

[littleblue]

It is worth stating if people are really so disgusted with buymastercoin, they don't have to sell them their MSCs.

I don't know this but my guess is that buymastercoin has a couple of accounts therefor even if someone was disgusted by buymastercoin it will be hard not to sell to someone that you don't know his identity.

Basically,  buymastercoin is a very normal operation, and I am not quite sure what people want from them.

I agree with you, the problem isn't with buymastercoin operation. I think people want to hear why the foundation thinks promoting his site does more good than bad.

I am not quite sure what people want from them: do they expect buymastercoin to advertise the GoogleDocs orderbook on their homepage? Or to state explicitly that they are charging well above market price?

I don't think anyone is expecting buymastercoin to do any of those things, but i think newcomers and the MSC community is expecting the foundation to point out these points in a very clear way, that newcomers can get an informed decision. Is that not in the interest of the foundation in your opinion?

If somebody wants to undercut buymastercoin, they can register the domain name "buymastercoinsforcheap" or something, offer the same services, and start raising awareness of buymastercoin's 'unfair' prices.

The foundation hasn't answered this question yet. Will any private exchange website be added to the foundation page? If yes I will have a site ready by the end of the week. I agree that the more competition the better.

+1.1

[bitexch]

It is worth stating if people are really so disgusted with buymastercoin, they don't have to sell them their MSCs.

I don't know this but my guess is that buymastercoin has a couple of accounts therefor even if someone was disgusted by buymastercoin it will be hard not to sell to someone that you don't know his identity.

Yes, the anonymity is a double-edged sword, and you are probably right that they have more than one account - but in this case I actually I think it is not such a big deal. As I've said, buymastercoin's willingness to buy in bulk at a good price is in my opinion a definite advantage, and helps the MSC market on the whole. The problem is the price at which they sell their Mastercoins (though again I think it is unreasonable to call this a 'problem'). But buymastercoin's advantages are really: 1) that it has been involved with Mastercoin since the beginning 2) that it has name-recognition, and 3) is listed on some site associated with the foundation. If they have to sell their MSCs under a new name (which can happen if people try to spread as much awareness as possible), then they lose all three of these advantages.

Basically,  buymastercoin is a very normal operation, and I am not quite sure what people want from them.

I agree with you, the problem isn't with buymastercoin operation. I think people want to hear why the foundation thinks promoting his site does more good than bad.

In my opinion, the 'support' from the foundation is FAKE. On mastercoin.org there is a link to buymastercoin.com, but on mastercounfoundation.org there is not. I don't know who owns the former domain, but if the board doesn't own it, then we've been fooled.

I am not quite sure what people want from them: do they expect buymastercoin to advertise the GoogleDocs orderbook on their homepage? Or to state explicitly that they are charging well above market price?

I don't think anyone is expecting buymastercoin to do any of those things, but i think newcomers and the MSC community is expecting the foundation to point out these points in a very clear way, that newcomers can get an informed decision. Is that not in the interest of the foundation in your opinion?

I couldn't agree with you more. If you read my previous posts, you will see that I have been quite outspoken in my criticisms of the board and the foundation more generally (this is not self-advertisement, it's just to give you a reference). I have also become convinced, however, that, aside from vokain and djohnston, the board is indifferent to community concerns, and that if Mastercoin succeeds, it will be in spite of, not because of its management. Indeed, as you may or may not know, 3 of our board members are completely silent on the forums (I am not even sure whether they have reddit/bitcointalk accounts)

I also think a board change is extremely unlikely because, as JR himself pointed out, the board owns so many MSCs that their decision is pretty representative of decisions that would be reached in proof-of-stake voting - so they could quite easily vote themselves back in.

If somebody wants to undercut buymastercoin, they can register the domain name "buymastercoinsforcheap" or something, offer the same services, and start raising awareness of buymastercoin's 'unfair' prices.

The foundation hasn't answered this question yet. Will any private exchange website be added to the foundation page? If yes I will have a site ready by the end of the week. I agree that the more competition the better.

Great! I hope you make a site! Mastercoin has a reputation for being an insular, and so whoever takes some steps towards making it a more newbie-friendly project will be performing a very important service.

[DGulari]

Does the foundation have no responsibility at all for the sites it promotes? Does Ron Gross - Board Member / Executive Director and J.R. Willett Mastercoin Protocol Founder / Board Treasurer have no opinion about this matter? I would really appreciate to hear their opinion or anyone of the Mastercoin Foundation Board of Directors opinion on this subject. The sooner the better 

It seems like the executive director is involved in this ripoff in some way.

If Ron is involved, you can vote him out of the Executive Director position next election.  I think if Ron knows the guy, he ought to fully disclose that now.  

I demand that Ron speak up on this topic - or held accountable next election.  The ExDir shouldn't have buymastercoins.com as a 'friend'.  If so, then people will think the whole thing is rigged.  It is just bad business keeping friends like that.

Ron?

[jajansen]

Big scam and a reason to loose confidence in this mastercoin, specially makes me doubt about the people behind mastercoin, if they even think this is normal business...If there are really good intentions, you try to make a market place and not selling already for months at 0.39btc where market is between 2 till 4 times cheaper.

We would like to respond to the recent comments on this thread, but first of all to say kudos to maxmint for setting up mcoin.io. This is a greatly needed tool, especially for us at BuyMastercoin.com. Liquidity has been a great issue so far in this economy, since most everyone is hoarding.

I'd like to start by saying that there are many of those selling Mastercoins on mcoin.io, the orderbook, and other third party sites for 0.3-10 BTC/MSC. Infact the average asking price is well above what we sell our Mastercoins. JR who holds ~30% of the coins has publicly stated he will not sell for less than 1 BTC/MSC, and if someone offered him that he wouldn't think twice to sell. Nobody is calling these people scammers.

I'd like to add that we have always fulfilled every single order we received and have responded to every single email. We attempt our best to acquire Mastercoins for our customers at a low price point but unfortunately there are barely any sellers. The orderbook is highly outdated, and it is impossible that every order that we receive we would go to the forum hoping to find someone who is online and willing to sell. Our stated goal is to provide a SAFE, EASY, and CONVENIENT way for customers to purchase small and medium amounts of Mastercoins, and we are proud of achieving this goal.

The idea that the orderbook denotes a "market price" is very misleading, especially with 90% being outdated orders. Considering the amount of Mastercoins we sell (and buy) if we were to purchase directly from the orderbook it would push the price sky high or dirt low because of the low market depth and limited availablility. Those who are willing to contact us before hand and setup a pre-order as opposed to an on the fly order receive better rates since it allows us time to acquire liquidity. For those who simply want to buy a mastercoin or two, our only option is to purchase directly from sellers who will not sell at artificial orderbook rates.

We have been the number one source for newcomers to easily acquire Mastercoins and have been helping boost awareness, knowledge and the availability of Mastercoin by creating new demand. Those who hold mastercoins should love us since we helped raise the price of mastercoin by bringing huge amounts of BTC into the market that otherwise wouldn't have come in.

Without us there would be no way for certain people to get Mastercoins since not everyone speaks english, has a bitcointalk account and trusts a google doc orderbook. We have processed more orders and volume than all other sellers combined. We teach people how to send and receive Mastercoins. So for those who feel we are "scamming" simply read the directions on our homepage, contact us for bulk rates, and you will be surprised at the low prices we can actually offer.

-BuyMastercoin.com

[klee]

Does the foundation have no responsibility at all for the sites it promotes? Does Ron Gross - Board Member / Executive Director and J.R. Willett Mastercoin Protocol Founder / Board Treasurer have no opinion about this matter? I would really appreciate to hear their opinion or anyone of the Mastercoin Foundation Board of Directors opinion on this subject. The sooner the better 

It seems like the executive director is involved in this ripoff in some way.

If Ron is involved, you can vote him out of the Executive Director position next election.  I think if Ron knows the guy, he ought to fully disclose that now.  

I demand that Ron speak up on this topic - or held accountable next election.  The ExDir shouldn't have buymastercoins.com as a 'friend'.  If so, then people will think the whole thing is rigged.  It is just bad business keeping friends like that.

Ron?

TKeenan?

[bitexch]

Does the foundation have no responsibility at all for the sites it promotes? Does Ron Gross - Board Member / Executive Director and J.R. Willett Mastercoin Protocol Founder / Board Treasurer have no opinion about this matter? I would really appreciate to hear their opinion or anyone of the Mastercoin Foundation Board of Directors opinion on this subject. The sooner the better 

It seems like the executive director is involved in this ripoff in some way.

If Ron is involved, you can vote him out of the Executive Director position next election.  I think if Ron knows the guy, he ought to fully disclose that now.  

I demand that Ron speak up on this topic - or held accountable next election.  The ExDir shouldn't have buymastercoins.com as a 'friend'.  If so, then people will think the whole thing is rigged.  It is just bad business keeping friends like that.

Ron?

My intention was not to start a witch-hunt; I thought I remembered hearing/reading that Ron knows the buymastercoin guy, but I do not have a source to support that, so please don't rely on me for that information. As I just wrote, I think buymastercoin's affiliation with the foundation is bogus.

[BTC-Market]

Guys, it's a free market. If people are willing to pay over 0.30 BTC for their MSC, it means that they're really in love with the idea and not in love with flipping quick MSC for profit.

I take it as a really good sign for Mastercoin that people are willing to put a value of over 0.30 BTC per 1 MSC. All you guys would have to do is stop selling at lower prices and force people to buy at 0.30+

[Patel]

Selling 5 MSC @ 0.16, priced for a quick sale

[bitexch]

Guys, it's a free market. If people are willing to pay over 0.30 BTC for their MSC, it means that they're really in love with the idea and not in love with flipping quick MSC for profit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all. It more likely means that they don't know what the actual market price of MSC is. Even if they loved the idea, would they voluntarily pay ~3x the market valuation to show how much they love it???

EDIT: But I certainly don't think buymastercoin should be 'blamed' for deceiving people into paying a higher price. If their goal is to make a profit, they're doing a great job...

[Patel]

Guys, it's a free market. If people are willing to pay over 0.30 BTC for their MSC, it means that they're really in love with the idea and not in love with flipping quick MSC for profit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all. It more likely means that they don't know what the actual market price of MSC is. Even if they loved the idea, would they voluntarily pay ~3x the market valuation to show how much they love it???

EDIT: But I certainly don't think buymastercoin should be 'blamed' for deceiving people into paying a higher price. If their goal is to make a profit, they're doing a great job...

Everyone is in this game to make profit. Everyone is in everything to make profit. If people can't do their own research and find the market price, than so be it. They will buy at a higher price if they want, and if they due diligence on the price, they will find the best price.

The sellers set the prices they want to sell at, so stop attacking all these people for selling at higher prices than market. The 0.3 price is cheaper than the 0.7 that dacoinminister (founder) is selling, so everyone should stop busting buymastercoin's balls.

Especially DGulari, this guy is always flipping shit on all mastercoin threads, accusing some people of scammers and such. Because he can't find any buyers for his prefunded order..

[bitexch]

Guys, it's a free market. If people are willing to pay over 0.30 BTC for their MSC, it means that they're really in love with the idea and not in love with flipping quick MSC for profit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all. It more likely means that they don't know what the actual market price of MSC is. Even if they loved the idea, would they voluntarily pay ~3x the market valuation to show how much they love it???

EDIT: But I certainly don't think buymastercoin should be 'blamed' for deceiving people into paying a higher price. If their goal is to make a profit, they're doing a great job...

Everyone is in this game to make profit. Everyone is in everything to make profit. If people can't do their own research and find the market price, than so be it. They will buy at a higher price if they want, and if they due diligence on the price, they will find the best price.

The sellers set the prices they want to sell at, so stop attacking all these people for selling at higher prices than market.

Especially DGulari, this guy is always flipping shit on all mastercoin threads, accusing some people of scammers and such. Because he can't find any buyers for his prefunded order..

You misunderstood what I said: I am not attacking anybody for selling higher. Although the aggressiveness and 'toughness' with which you express your lack of sympathy for those who fail to do their due diligence supports Mastercoin's reputation for being unfriendly to newcomers, and so if you would like the value of your MSCs to increase, it is in your best interest to at least express yourself less dismissively.

[klee]

Guys, it's a free market. If people are willing to pay over 0.30 BTC for their MSC, it means that they're really in love with the idea and not in love with flipping quick MSC for profit.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all. It more likely means that they don't know what the actual market price of MSC is. Even if they loved the idea, would they voluntarily pay ~3x the market valuation to show how much they love it???

EDIT: But I certainly don't think buymastercoin should be 'blamed' for deceiving people into paying a higher price. If their goal is to make a profit, they're doing a great job...

Everyone is in this game to make profit. Everyone is in everything to make profit. If people can't do their own research and find the market price, than so be it. They will buy at a higher price if they want, and if they due diligence on the price, they will find the best price.

The sellers set the prices they want to sell at, so stop attacking all these people for selling at higher prices than market. The 0.3 price is cheaper than the 0.7 that dacoinminister (founder) is selling, so everyone should stop busting buymastercoin's balls.

Especially DGulari, this guy is always flipping shit on all mastercoin threads, accusing some people of scammers and such. Because he can't find any buyers for his prefunded order..

He is the same guy as TKeenan and probably Tom Hirsch - just hit Ignore..

[Patel]

He is the same guy as TKeenan and probably Tom Hirsch - just hit Ignore..

I think you are absolutely correct.

[stereotype]

He is the same guy as TKeenan and probably Tom Hirsch - just hit Ignore..

I think you are absolutely correct.

Ditto